What SWORDS did the MONGOLS use? Turko-Mongol Sabers 

There is some, but its mostly regurgitated stuff with little to no actual source evidence and fantasy pieces as examples of what the equipment looked like... I too am glad that a channel such as this one is starting this topic, and I hope it spirals down the rabbit hole with other similar channels around :)

Obligatory plug for The Jackmeister's channel on YT. He engages heavily with the original sources and provides a lot of nuanced takes. His content is more on the academic side, but if you're already on Matt Easton's channel you could probably make the jump just fine. Also, Jackmeister has previously contributed a lot to Kings and Generals' Mongol history videos (plus those for some other RU-vidrs such as History Dose.)

​@@perrytran9504Nice! Thanks for this info, I'll be sure to check out that channel!

​@@perrytran9504+1 for Jackmeister!

This is definitely true, as I feel like in general, the only Asian history that seems to interest people is Japanese history. Kinda sad though because then you neglect other countries’ histories like Mongolia and Korea.

Unsurprisingly, as the Hungarian tribes were indeed one (or seven, if you prefer) of the Turkic-influenced groups referred to in the video that arrived from Central Asia at the start of the 10th century

" *forced into christendom* " Forced?

i'm hungarian and i concur. We swapped to straight sword when we settled in the Carpathian basin.

To be able to establish a country in Europe at that time, you had to convert to their religion, otherwise your would be country were not recognized at all and wars or crusade followed. In case of Hungary, the would be king Stephen had to request a crown (=the right to establish a kingdom) from the Pope@@bakters

@@bakters There are sources to support that Christendom was not spread by kisses and hugs in Hungary. Civil wars continued against the king way after Stephen Ist death to return to pagan traditions in the 11th century. Several priests were executed, including the bishop Gellért on the rock you can still see in Budapest above the baths "Gellért" according to tradition. Kings had to compell with the pagans just to keep their power before bringing back the priests and striking at them again.

It’s amazing what video games do to modern historical understanding. I can’t think of anywhere else this could come from besides as a way to balance them in video games. Perhaps misinterpretation of a history book too?

@@Subutai_Khan the argument started because they claimed no "ninja" would fight like a samurai, i said that probably no two samurai fought the same either. the response back was something like "NO all samurai fought like samurai just like all the Greeks used phalanx warfare and the Mongols used horse archery" so therefore i must be wrong in asserting that samurai didnt all fight the same. mostly they just called me names lol IF you want to divide up all human combat into one thing, "human combat", you can; just like you could divide up "Mongol combat" or anything else. i am pretty sure they were arguing just for the sake of arguing to make up for something in real life

@@beepboop204 Sounds like the guy got his history lesson from Ghost of Tsushima lol. Must have been a fun time.

Even if they were 100% horse archery they still would have swords and daggers as back up weapons or battle axes maces or war hammers for some units or troops against armored opponents

​@@markbennett5812I had a more demeaning version of this directed at me regarding Korean history. I get that archery was the big thing but no army is made of archers without anything else

I did not mean to imply that the Ottomans took sabres from the Mongols - rather they both had sabers already from Turkic origins and there were design elements that influenced each other.

Indeed, i think the first 'official' relations of the Eastern Romans with the Mongols are the 2 treaties with the Blue Horde (urals, the Blue Horde is the Eastern Part of the Golden Horde) and the Ilkhanate (persia). Essentially the 2 Khaganate Leaders get a princess & recognized as true heirs of Rome. In practice, the Ilkhanate Horde (mainly) & the Romans destroy the Seljuk Turks. More specifically, the Roman princesses enjoy great prestige, especially the princess that goes to the Ilkhanate. Btw Mongols were practicing tolerance against religions. So the christian Princess (Maria Palaiologina) was promised to Hulagu Khan, but he dies before they arrive, and thus is maried to his son, Apaqa Khan does charities etc & gets really really famous. She was extremely influential in Mongol politics, as most Mongol subjects were Nestorian christians. Her Mongol name was Despoina Khatun, ie Lady Khatun) After the death of the Khan (Abaqa Khan, 1234-1282), she returns to Constantinople where she establishes a church. To this day there is a church in Instabul (Maria Mouhliotissa or Saint Mary of the Mongols), this church has not been turned into a mosque due to a treaty with the Ottoman Sultan. Simply fascinating story. Lastly i want to add that the slavic word for Mongols is Mogyla & the Byzantine word for Mongols does take from Mogyla. You can spot this connection into the 'Mouhliotissa' word.

Genghis Khan has a Turkic name Temürchiñ, Temujin is chinese pronunciation. Mongol Empire was 80% Turkic warriors at least. Modern Mongolians are closer to Tibetans and Manchus culturally and linguistically. Turko-Mongol is saying like Turko-Turk. It’s redundant.

@@Qazaq_Qiyat_1465 Its not redundant because the Mongols did have different customs & they do have different language (different language family). The Turko-Mongol tag is reserved for the Mongol people who were Turkicised in the 14th century, especially in the Successor Stares, abandoning Mongol religion (but not Mongol law) & adopting Turkic languages. I have to point out however, that Mongols were very tolerant with other religions & thus were influenced by older religions (Christianity, Nestorian Christianity, Islamism, Confucianism, Taoism etc) even though Genghis was a follower of the Old Mongol ways.

@@Qazaq_Qiyat_1465 I also have to add that Turkic describes many different tribes, with different customs. These Turkic tribes also fought with one another as well. With that distinction the term Mongol-Turkic is more apparent. This is also why the term Seljuk Turk or Ottoman Turk appears, even though Seljuks have more in common with Ottomans, than Mongols.

hungary is also turkic thats why ... turkish cav sword is saber its the first curved sword used in history i can argue on metal quality probably iron age europian swords are better made coz of quality of iron but i dont know at the seljuk and ottoman era turkic swords become the finest coz of damascus steel technique there is also a sword called yatagan for infantry its curved to opposite side. and used for chopping limbs shields and against armored opponents.

@@GoldandPearl Hungarians are a Ugric speaking group of people with strong Turkic influence, nothing more.

@@alikuzyaka2152 they are turkic and apprntly you are arab :D

@@GoldandPearl Hungarians are not Turkic. They has Turkic influence on the Steppe. But they were not Turkic.

карл твой был в подчении какой он великий это смешно 😂

“Khanaboo” 😂 tbh that explains alot of mongol history fans

As fokos, those were also wielded by old Magyars.

I read somewhere that they also carried a mace 🤔

@@garywheeley5108 The more well-off Mongol lancers did often carry maces yes (as well as swords.) Remember also the point Matt made about the Mongols having a huge empire too. That means equipment varied quite a bit too :). Maces in general are pretty common Indo-Persian weapons as well which is an area of the world the Mongols ended up in as well. Plus you had vassal troops who could have all sorts of equipment.

@@Subutai_Khan just thinking of the logistics of producing sabres or any swords in quantity on a campaign stretching thousands of miles across Asia getting the steel and fuel for smelting I would have thought anything but swords would have more bang for the effort involved axe spear lance mace even arrows could be made from flint bone etc how plentiful was ore coal charcoal wood etc on the steppes ?🤔

means I guess most effective 😶‍🌫️😉

Curved swords are a bit easier to make & maintain, thats why they were used a lot from nomadic people.

No, the answer is sabres.

Korean swords followed this with using the Chinese styles of straight backed swords and getting more curved due to Mongols and other groups. Afterwards, they became more influenced by Japanese designs following the Wokou raids and the Imjin war. As far as I recall. Korean swords end up pretty similar in dimension for awhile in terms of degree of curvature and in size. Basically looks like a katana mixed with this sword which is basically what happened. Again, as far as I recall.

I would say that the Han dynasty dao is another sword that could have steppe origins or influence. For quite a chunk of the Han dynasty it was dominated by the Xiongnu. I haven't been able to find any depictions of Xiongnu swords unfortunately, though I have found references to finding swords in Han graves that were either Xiongnu style, or decorated in the Xiongnu style. And I have also seen references suggesting that Han Dynasty and Xiongnu swords were very similar. Unfortunately I can't give more information... there are so many articles that would be very useful if I knew Chinese or Russian...

I would like to add that the straight, ring pommel dao itself derives from earlier (bronze) knives that were popular from Central Asia all the way to East Asia. I have seem examples of ring pommel bronze knives from Central Asia long before ring pommel dao is a thing.

@@gedmerrilin9010pls translate it bcs my English is bad：汉代前期一直是使用的剑，刀的起源是日常生活中使用的青铜短刀的放大加长，而青铜短刀的造型则可以追溯到商代的“刀币”了，所以我不认为环首刀收到了匈奴的影响，不过我认同中文互联网世界有太多的刀剑资料不为人所知了，真是可惜，希望lkchen和matt能为中文世界资料的交流学习努力❤

Straight single edge swords already showed up much earlier than in China. I'm not exactly sure of the first known location tho.

iirc the straight dao with the ring pomel came around the late han era.

Also, keep in mind that the Tang, we’re Turkic in origin. They just adopted Chinese manners and institutions a little more gracefully than the Mongols did.

@@cal2127 Yeah that sounds right, either late Han or Three Kingdoms/Jin period. However I think that by that point the Jian was still more popular, although I could definitely be wrong on that.

@@evanmorris1178the tang were NOT Turkic in origins. The founder of the tang dynasty although swore brotherhood to a Turk was not one himself.

⁠​⁠@@hiimryan2388Li Yuan, the founder of the Tang and his cousin, Emperor Yang of Sui were descended from sinicized Xianbei nobility (known as the Dugu sisters).

Hippo ivory is excellent as well.

Is mammoth ivory particularly expensive?

Those Mongols really got _everywhere_ 😁

@@ArkadiBolschek Gimme a new race for Elder Scrolls 6 inspired by them. Last time we had a new playable race was all the way back with orcs in Morrowind.

@@perrytran9504 In the various time periods the games are set, the only major races knocking about on Tamriel are the ones you can play. You would have to go much further afield to places like Akavir. Atmora would just have more Nords, Yokuda sunk into the ocean in the First Era. Pyandonea has the Maormer on it, but they're just fish elves, and also featured in ESO. If TES6 isn't on Akavir, which it probably won't be, then you're stuck with Imga, maybe Reachmen.

They also have curved swords. Curved. Swords.

Despite how large their empire was, some parts are not so well documented compared to others. Surviving specimens of equipment are uncommon just as in other places of this time period, and written sources while plentiful are difficult to study because they are in multiple languages (since you know, the Mongols interacted with highly diverse civilizations.) But there is a good amount of written description of what kind of things they used, and Persian artwork is particularly valuable to see what they actually looked like. Still not easy for modern armorers/bladesmiths to reconstruct anything and there probably aren't as many people commissioning it anyway.

Curved swords also are easier to make/maintain.

What's lesser known is they aren't a hodge podge of multi ethnic ppl. The core monogols warriors are fathers and sons, uncles and nephes, brother in laws. If it was not safe, tell your bgrother in law, fall back BIL, sound judgement saves reckless battles. att he same time, when corneded with half his family deaad at their feet, and the other half is clinging for dear life; this is where you find your 5 men surrounded by 5K pile of enemy soldiers, and don't know if you should cry for their bravery or weep for the stupidity of the enemy. This ame mentallity was then extended to tothe rethnicityes who definitley appreiciated 9it since no other army treated you like equals, not even here in America . So the Mongols are truly a diamond in the annals of history.

"The first battles of the First Crusade were against (mostly) muslim Seljuk Turks wielding (probably) sabres. Straight-blade-wielding Arabs and Syrians came only after (probably Persian-influence sword type, single-edged and more palas-like)." Matt refers in the video to the forces of Saladin who didn't participate in the First Crusade. Most of the conflict with the Seljuks and the Sultanate of Rûm were in the First Crusade. By the Second and Third the Crusader states held coastal territory in Outremer to receive crusaders directly from ships, and the Byzantines and Latins had reclaimed territory in Anatolia to traverse without having too much trouble with the Turks. If anything, Byzantine paramerions would be likely to be encountered when the Crusaders were sacking Byzantine territory.

The Manchus were not nephews of the Mongols. Manchus are from an entirely separate lineage of peoples, were semi-nomadic and used agriculture (compared to exclusively/mostly nomadic Mongols), and spoke Manchu - which is a totally different language in the Tungusic language family. The Mongolian language is in a separate Mongolic family. The Manchus are also descended from the Jurchens, and the Jurchens of the Jin Dynasty fought the Mongols in the middle ages and the empire was destroyed by a combined Mongol & Song Dynasty invasion.

Dont know i fthe mahyars ever made it to present day france, east francia is not the same as "france"

@@hexachire7214 They did in the 10th century, they even went as far as the Emirate of Cordoba in Spain and the southern half of the Italian peninsula. There were multiple deep raids France.

@@hexachire7214 As they went all they way to Cordoba in Spain, raiding around Tours is not off en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_invasions_of_Europe#/media/File:Hungarian_Invasion_of_Europe.png

I will come back to these. They are very interesting swords and were hugely influential on so many cultures.

​@@scholagladiatoria Will you touch on some Korean swords? I know they are designs of their neighbors incorporated into existing sword types but I would like to hear your thoughts since you provide a non biased view.

@@scholagladiatoria just to be clear, I am grateful you take the time to share your expertise with us and I always enjoy listening to your stuff, hope you have a good day sir!

It stops your hand from slipping.

​@@markkodryk829and easier to draw and sheathed from horseback

The Romaic Sabre, or Paramerion (it means by the side or by the hip) is essentially a modified version of the Avar sabre. It would be hanged by a belt or a shoulder strap. The Paramerion is essentially a single-edged sword with a slightly curved blade towards the back. You can thrust decently with a Paramerion. The Paramerion is also conflated with the Makhaira, a falchion/falx like sword that is usually longer and heavier. The primary advantage of curved swords are that they are easier to make (less forging, means less flaws in the blade) and easier to fix in the hardening/tempering (deviations can be ignored, this is very important for curvature/straighteness)

That's absolute bullshit we have examples of curved tachi literally centuries before the Genghis khan was even born let alone his descendants who tried to invade Japan.

As far as steppe people go, I am fascinated with the Yamnaya.

I think Skalligrime did a bit on that some time ago. Search his back-catalogue.

Full plate with minimal openings, ie the type of plate armor that can only work with the help of a servant? It would really depend on the kind of the zombie, as there are movies/games when the zombies are quite strong and can destroy wooden doors. In such a case the knight will have concussion & multiple bruised/broken ribs. Other than that the knight has to be careful of zombie hordes/swarms, because the zombies will pin him down. They wont do that much damage, most likely bruises from being pushed by so many bodies, maybe difficulty breathing, and the knight will be heavily pinned by so many bodies. Maybe the face visor opens with all the zombie flailing around, if that happens things will be life-threatening. But the zombies will be restless 24/7 and wont be tired, so its just a matter of time, as they have all the patience of the world (unless its the night of the living dead).

11:00 They arent stronger cutters. However they do help in edge alignment a bit. If they are very curved (the persian styles, but they are later period) then the are slightly better at cutting if you punch cut, but as i mentioned not at drawing cut or direct cut. In general, Curved swords advantage is that they are easier to make/maintain. Thats a very good attribute for nomadic horse tribes.

it helps with securing, although very slightly, the blade to the hilt it also helps with fitting on the scabbard, so its held more securely and... it looks nice

We could say that except for the fact that theres a ton of evidence of DIRECT heritage from turko-mongol sabers to drastic changes in sword types in the cultures they interacted with. European sabers, Indian and middle eastern sabers and chinese sabers all are pretty heavily linked to mongol influence.

Depending on unit type, they had shields, heavy armour or kept away from people that could fight back, when it came time to use the sabers.

Because that's what shields are for

An important and overlooked reason is weather. The Central Asian steppes get very cold, necessitating the wearing of heavy mittens, which make developed guards impractical. You still see that in traditional Cossack shashkas, and a modern analogue would be removing trigger guards from rifles in very cold conditions, to allow firing while wearing heavy gloves.

Imagine if they didn’t need it LOL

No 2 daos are ever the same because they have vastly differing designs to each other The shorter ones that are often used in 1 hand would often be used as a secondary, but the 2 handed ones (like the changdao and zhanmadao) are designed as primary weapons, mainly utilized in warfare involving cavalry Just wanted to point that out as they're not the like jians