What The Batman Got Right That The Dark Knight Didn’t: A Tale of Two Endings 

The arc indeed could be that he starts and an arrogant knowitall and in the end realises that he has much to learn but in this particular case in my opinion it's not highlighted enough and the stakes for our hero are almost nonexistent. He's constantly in godmode physically and emotionally, all the major turns are discarded almost as fast as they are presented and much of what pointed out here isn't conveyed clearly in the movie in my opinion. Sure, we have a voiceover in the end of how he is realised that he may need to be not the fear but the inspiration, but it seems that he is more or less going to follow the same path. He wasn't hiding before either. Damn, he's being escorted on the crime scene by Gordon. And not for the lack of skills as a detective I imagine. So, in conclusion, there's definitely place for growth here but so far the consistency of it all is much to be desired. And the cinematography is freaking awesome none the less :)

he is batman, not superman. What? you think he is a perfect indestructable power fantasy icon every virgin wants to be like? yeah like the evil superman trope im sick of the batman can do anything trope because "he is batman". You want rey skywalker? cause this is how you get rey skywalker.

@@motor4X4kombat what? He was saying that he liked Batman made mistakes in the movie. The fuck are you saying?

He's not Arkham series Batman but he's going to be one. An atmost real one to be. It's exciting to see him upcoming days

No but listen: batman’s failure here was intentional due to the cinematic masterpiece craftsmen Matt Reeves. Batman allowed himself to fail so that he can represent the light at the end of the tunnel in the same way Jesus resurrected. - This video essay guy probably

Exactly. This is a non-conversation. Both interpretations are suited to their own unique stories, set of circumstances and goals. There is no wrong to debate. Also, be could argue that there would be no The Batman without Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy. Just another BS article from IGN.

@@samuraigundam0079 You’ve posted this multiple times but I’m not sure that you understand the topic.

@@christianc.christian5025 just trying to converse. Also, yes, I do understand the conversation; IGN just likes to post meaningless videos, because they don’t have anything really interesting to say about a given subject, that many non-corporate youtubers haven’t already covered.

A genius ninja walked up to a guy with a gun, and then didnt blame all his crimes on the Joker, but himself? The ending is pretentious trash and absolutely moronic. It is far from perfect. It's straight bad, and probably the worse finale of any superhero film.

@@RevJ7 are you talking about TDK? If that's your interpretation of the ending then I feel sorry for you to have entirely missed the point of both the Jokers motivations and just the movie as a whole. Oof

No offense but what are some of your favorites?

Were you born this year?

@@nelisezpasce Idk what batman movies are my favorites anymore altho Returns was growing up (Was a huge Burton fan). But visually, this takes the cake. Every frame can be put up in an art gallery (in my opinion).

@@Courier_333 Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Go take a nap crankyhead. 😂

@@dragonfly8568 I'm pretty sure he meant films period, not just Batman. Also, pretty shots don't make a film.

By my count, Michael Giacchino has scored at least 5 Marvel movies

I loved the score to ‘The Batman’ but the Avengers’ primary theme is probably the most iconic movie music of the last decade. It’s entered ‘Lord of the Rings’ territory and was used during the single biggest payoff moment in the climax of a movie which made $3 billion.

@@slivable4 Yeah, I see 3 Spider-Man movies, ‘Dr. Strange’ and ‘Thor 4’. I don’t get this needless comparison at all. It looks like some fans just want to engage with whatever is trendy to dislike each year.

@@christianc.christian5025 The Avengers does not come within 100 miles of what LotR achieved musically imo

This is a non-conversation. Both interpretations are suited to their own unique stories, set of circumstances and goals. There is no wrong to debate. Also, be could argue that there would be no The Batman without Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy. Just another BS article from IGN.

@@samuraigundam0079 That argument never really made sense to me. Yes, without Nolan trilogy, The Batman probably wouldn't exist, but that doesn't mean that IGN's article is wrong per say. Besides, in the video itself, they hardly ever talk about The Dark Knight anyway.

Pretty sure it got copyright striked soon after uploading originally.

Yeah, it got copyrighted. Glad it's sorted. Now I can watch it.

This is a non-conversation. Both interpretations are suited to their own unique stories, set of circumstances and goals. There is no wrong to debate. Also, one could argue that there would be no The Batman without Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy. Just another BS article from IGN.

@@samuraigundam0079 Sir this is a CineFix video, not an IGN article 😛

'nuances' = boring and pretentious 😆

No contest for me, the Dark Knight has one of the best endings ever put on film! It's just infectious!

@@Fiveash-Art or it’s a movie and it is crafted by a storyteller that knows how to work themes. Don’t make fun of something that you find too complicated when others can understand it fine.

@@thefilmrookie3099 Ha ha .. A good movie shouldn't be 'complicated' ... There's a difference between complex and complicated. The Batman is neither actually ... It's just messy. Please tell me the complex ideas you're speaking about? I didn't find it complicated .. I found it BORING. Also something you dorks haven't figured out about this overrated trash. There's nothing deep about this junk ... and I guarantee it, .. I'm smarter than you are. At least more experienced. Anyone who thinks this is an 'intelligent' movie is either 15, or just dumb.

@@Fiveash-Art "pretentious" lmao. So tying up all loose ends and providing resolution to a character arc is now pretentious and boring? Interesting

Yeah - seems out of place seeing as Cinefix were no stranger to just putting out interesting singular deep-dives before without the need for the clickbait. Me thinks IGN's sweaty Cheeto covered fingers are involved in this decision

Yeah - seems out of place seeing as Cinefix were no stranger to just putting out interesting singular deep-dives before without the need for the clickbait. Me thinks IGN's sweaty Cheeto covered fingers are involved in this decision

thank you, i always thought of this. I don’t like one Batman over the other even tho i have a personal favorite, i still love each and everyone of them and they are all unique in their own way……. Except Clooney

Nolan’s Batman movies are only Batman in name

I am a fan of both. The dark knight is a masterpiece. However I think The Batman is better. Both have their places.

I think the "got batman wrong" thing comes from having a certain perception of how Batman works, shaped by perhaps the animated series (and its spinoffs) or certain writers' shared interpretation in the comics that shaped the animated version and has continued since both in comics and in other animated projects. I think there's a certain mental model of the ideal Batman that a lot of fans share, and it's one that allows him to be a compelling and layered protagonist. It's not the same as the original version of the character, but it's a version of the character that is beloved by fans and has stood the test of time. It goes something like this... 1. Batman does not use firearms, does not kill, and does not intentionally allow people to die. 2. This stems directly from having watched his parents get shot to death, which both traumatized and motivated him. He is in a sense stuck in a neverending quest to save his parents by proxy, every night, and to kill or use a firearm would essentially, in his own mind, turn him into the guy who killed his parents, and he already feels like he allowed his parents to die, so to do that again is unthinkable. Everyone must be saved, because everyone is a stand-in for his parents. 3. Batman is very intelligent, but he is also in a sense a child who never grew up. He's emotionally stunted. He can act like a "normal", well-adjusted adult, but it's a superficial performance. His truest self is who he is with Alfred in the Batcave. 4. Batman can't just quit. The compulsion will always come back. "The Batman" is interesting in that it seems to depict this version of the character before he's figured himself out. The constants are there, but he has to let go of vengeance (something he's already approaching from a no guns/no killing angle) and embrace prioritizing saving lives over punishing the wicked in order to finally become the hero he can be. Previous live-action depictions of Batman have at most paid lip superficial service to this idea of the character, but haven't committed to it. When it comes down to it, live-action Batman has always had generic action hero behavior as a fall-back. Sometimes it's more James Bond, sometimes more Punisher, sometimes more John McClane, but there's always that one moment that makes fans of the aforementioned idea of Batman facepalm. In the Burton movies, it's pretty much immediate as he has no problem killing people left and right. In Batman Forever, it's primarily the moment where he throws the coins to cause Two-Face to fall to his death (which I believe was a studio note, not in the original script). In Batman Begins, it's either when he sets the house full of assassins on fire or when he tells Ra's "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you". In The Dark Knight Rises, it's when he quits too easily. In Batman v. Superman, it's when he shoots a bunch of goons with their own gun. Those are things a typical action hero would do, but not a thing a lot of people's ideal version of Batman would do. And while there are multiple valid interpretations of the character, it can become frustrating to watch Hollywood repeatedly avoid the version of Batman that has worked so well in comics and animation for so long. Enter The Batman, which, even though it shows him on a path of vengeance, actively goes out of its way to lay the groundwork for who he will become. It feels almost like a spiritual prequel to the animated series. That, I think, is why a lot of people feel like Matt Reeves understands Batman in a way that Nolan didn't. Because he understands the version of the character that they're invested in and have been longing to see depicted in live-action, on a psychological level. As something more than action guy in a bat suit who is an afterthought to the more compelling villains.

The dark knight fans did the same with Michael Keaton.

It’s seriously overrated. It’s just cold. And Gotham has zero personality

The fighting was horrible wtf

@@thezeek2745 its most certainly not overrated, and gotham was great in batman begins. for the other 2, it was meant to take place in the richer areas of gotham and lets be honest, gotham city from batman begins wouldn't work too well in the dark knight and the dark knight rises.

@@skywalker2676 nolan is known to not have the best fight choreography, but it is mediocre, not horrible.

Batman has always been a symbol of hope you need tor read more comics fool

@@juliobenavides3821 yeah... remind me again what that symbol on Superman's chest stands for? So you're saying the two main characters in the DC universe have the same message? And I'm the fool...

@@TeacherPauloPontes before writing any more crap just read Batman Earth One, Batman Zero Year and Batman Ego

@Billy Blaze Blazejowski hello 2003

@Billy Blaze Blazejowski actually I like both men and women. So whilst you’re not insulting me by calling me a homosexual, you’re wrong.

@Billy Blaze Blazejowski yeah that’s what I thought. Slag.

It's Year Two, but I get your point.

Or maybe he's full of shit, ever considered that ? Just because it kinda makes sense doesn't mean it's how it's intended to be interpreted. Many of these types of videos just be reaching.

Idk, the analysis presented in the video seems pretty compelling. It's OK if you just don't like criticism or analysis, but it doesn't seem like complete bullshit to me.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying a movie at a surface level without having a deep analysis of subtext. The nice thing about this kind of analysis is that it can make the movie more rewarding in hindsight. Some movies get worse in hindsight (for example if you try to analyze them at this level and discover major conflicts between themes, character motivations, filmmaking methods, etc.), and some get better. If you have a good time though, at any level, it's worth it.

@@shalindelta7 No. No one in history has ever considered that someone’s take on a movie might be wrong. Thank you so much for showing up to highlight this and hopefully, you’ve changed the world with your RU-vid comment.

And you can't make up these rules just because that one movie was better than an entire trilogy.

Tbh I always loved Pattinson batman more than even the one in the dark knight, though I do kinda get the criticism toward Bruce Wayne. To me it kinda makes sense, mainly because I mean- it CAN take awhile to act as a billionaire playboy when you’re so consumed into playing as this manic man in a bat suit attacking criminals to sorta vent how he’s felt. It’s definitely one of my personal favorites but I do agree the dark knights Bruce Wayne is more superior than the one in the batman cuz the dark knight portrays it as more of an actual billionaire playboy. Luckily it’s super possible for Pattinson to play as a billionaire playboy since he has played something like that in some films

Batman's narration is simply the audio reading of his journal entries. It's not moralizing as much as recording his thoughts and observations. It also means that he can't write down anything that he himself doesn't consciously know. And his opening narration shows that he himself is doesn't believe that what he's doing is working. The key that the story is built from is that he doesn't know why? It's also not contemporaneous. His closing narration while the lady is being air-evaced is what he wrote down after he got back to the cave that night. So they're him reflecting on what he learns. It is what's going on with him, but *he* doesn't actually know what's going on with him, so he can't accurately diagnose and analyze. Which makes sense. He's completely erased himself from the equation. There is only the mission. That shell doesn't get cracked until Alfred almost dies. Then he realizes Bruce is alive and he does still have someone he cares about. My point is, it's not a story he's telling himself. He's not lying to himself, he genuinely is in the dark in the sense that he doesn't know. The crux of Batman is "Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot" so fear is the first weapon he came up with. What he didn't understand and learns is that fear has limits as a tool. He also realizes that he is actually capable of an even higher calling, purpose, and function for his city than just being Fear and Vengeance.

@@3Rayfire Right, I totally agree. By "It's the story he's telling himself," I just mean that it's the best he can do to understand what's going on, both with him, and the city. But my original point, inasmuch as I remember, is that he goes through the wordless revelation when he hears the Riddler copycat say "I am Vengeance," and then he has to try and figure out what that revelation was, and who he is now that it changed him. This is a story very much about the contrast between who we think we are, and who we really are. The narration is who he thinks he is, and it's not wrong, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

@@rottensquid That echo "I am Vengeance" really hit. It's much more of a gut punch then the I'm not wearing hockey pads moment. It wasn't just that he'd inspired some nuts who were in over their head. It just shot him in the chest.... he'd made things worse.

@@3Rayfire I know, right? It really challenged what these superhero characters are about. Do we connect with them because they're doing good, or because they're doing violence? We can't deny that we get a visceral thrill out of the latter, but this movie really calls that out. So much modern action genre media equates good with violence against the "deserving." This film does a gorgeous job calling that into question.

@@rottensquid And it telegraphed that from jump with the guy he saved from the gang being scared of him too. The bookend moment with the girl on the air stretcher is *really* sweet. I think it's the first time this Batman experienced someone wanting him to be there. Someone who thought Batman was needed. That must've felt weird and wonderful for Bruce. "This person only feels safe, because I'm here." It's also very different than the Dark Knight Trilogy's goal for Batman. There Bruce wanted to be a symbol that you can stand up to the corruption and prevail. This Batman is more singular. This Batman isn't trying to say anyone can be the Batman, it's saying this Batman isn't just Vengeance. This Batman will fight for and if necessary save you. In a corrupt Gotham, you can trust, The Batman.

Irrelevant. He hasn't even developed the Playboy Bruce Wayne persona, and in fact even rejects the Bruce Wayne identity. There was no playboy for him to play in this film. However, the film did give origin to the billionaire playboy persona, and critical reason for Batman to engage with Bruce Wayne. The problems that arose in this film were directly caused by the fact that Bruce was *not* there and monitoring the Renewal fund which is made up of Wayne Family money. Billionaire Playboy *Philanthropist* Bruce Wayne also pays for social programs in Gotham City. Bella Real points out to Bruce that he could be doing a lot more to help people in the city, and she's speaking to both halves of the man without knowing it. I expect the sequel will have Alfred helping Bruce perfect the suave, debonair, Playboy that he's supposed to be. There will also probably be more Wayne Enterprises action and perhaps Lucius Fox.

It got copyright striked

I think the comparison was just unnecessary, the essay had way more points to make about “The Batman” as a stand-alone work.

Yeah it comes off as clickbait and a gotcha to pick on one shot of TDK without any further analysis of that movie when The Batman gets that full analysis.

Well at least it worked, right?

If im honest i like this more than TDK I mean the Joker in that movie is a performance for the ages but that's all I felt TDK had going for it

Christopher Nolan is a hack and The Dark Knight is without a doubt one of the most overrated films in history. He fundamentally didn't understand Batman. The only reason his films are popular is because of the clean visuals and overt neo-liberal ideology that appeal to the average male who doesn't know anything about film.

Still better than most of the Batman movies that came before it ( Nolan's films being the exception) TDK is just Brilliant, much better than the Nicholson version) The Batman is just phenomenal The detective story is not meant to be perfect, as Batman is an engenue here I like that this Batman isn't impervious He gets beat up and injured! This is the Batman, not some goofy detective show from the 1980s

Batman was a fantastic detective in this movie. He was smarter than any other law enforcer by miles. But this is the riddler he’s going up against here. Of course he’s gonna be outsmarted. He’s the fucking riddler. It would have been very underwhelming if The Batman was one step ahead of the riddler the whole time. It would have diminished his menace and the film’s tension. It’s definitely better than any of the Nolan films by miles. This movie is incredibly character focused, where The Nolan films were plot focused. And the dialogue often feels pretentious and very scripted in the Nolan films.

​@@cabellero1120 He gets beat up and injured, like when he falls out of the sky and hits the lights and another object at high velocity and gets up like nothing happened?

​@@zacrast16 How is The Batman character focused? He has no relationship with Alfred, but we are supposed to be sad when he almost dies. And it is supposed to be meaningful when Bruce goes to visit Alfred, why? What actual relationship has he formed with Catwoman? He doesn't know much about her and she knows nothing about him. Why do they kiss? And she is the one who kisses him! What was the point of the Penguin? The casting for Falcone was terrible, and as a character, he was very shallow. I could go on and on, but at the end of the day, The Batman is a below average film specifically because it is devoid of character development and therefore devoid of stakes since the characters are so poorly developed. How can I possibly care about the story when it doesn't have a clear connection to the characters in the film and their motivations?

@@PolishPhanatic Still Much Better than Morbius! That movie is dog crap! Jared Leto is mediocre at best You think the Batman is disjointed? try watching Morbius... jump cuts, an incoherent story, No character development..... shitty effects, bad editing

Well said 😊

Comparisons are totally fair. It’s another interpretation. Which begs comparisons. There’s nothing wrong with it. And there’s nothing wrong with preferring one over the other for whatever reason.

@@zacrast16 for this video The Batman was made the benchmark for how a film should have been lit. Why should this be the basis for comparison? What was Christopher Nolan's philosophy for lighting? Not provided in this video. We may need to agree to disagree but I still hold that this wasn't a fair comparison

This comment is the definition of over thinking shit. The story was wrapped up, batman finished his journey and packed it up, the end.

You’re talking about a live-action film series in terms of being a comic book… In real life, people don’t just get rejuvenated and younger when the title starts to sell more. Nolan’s Batman was about 40 by the end of the series. He had one last fight left in him (presumably) and chose not to die in the suit. In a grounded movie universe like this one, you’d only have a few years of fights where getting shot and breaking your leg were a normal outcome… If you were lucky. Plus, you don’t *know* exactly what he went on to do.

Batman didn't get a happy ending, Bruce Wayne did.

That's actually the reason I love the Dark Knight Rises ending. For all the stuff he did, he finally got a well deserved reward. Some happiness. He didn't live a miserable life where he ends up in a wheelchair (like Kingdom Come) or alone and still working with his whole family hating him (like Batman Beyond) he saved his city and got some measure of peace and love. He got what Alfred wanted for him, a fresh start. And he did know that the city has a new protector, he knew Blake was going to take the job because he had already started giving him advice. He wouldn't have left the coordinates to the Batcave if he didn't think Blake would do it.

Yeah it would have been much better If he hadnt retired but continued fighting crime, thats what comic Batman would have done, one of the things i dont like about Bale's batman is that he was Batman for like a year and half maybe

Thanks for helping me put my finger on what I didn't like about the premise of the The Dark Knight Rises when I first saw it. I forgot that that's what I was hoping for as well.

@@javierlopez9789 that shit bugged me than and bugs me now dude gave up being Batman over a fucking girl too

@@jsullivan2112 The Dark Knight Rises is my favorite of the trilogy (I like the interpretation of Bane and the Happy ending, I also like Hathaway's Catwoman) but the starting premise was weak. It's a big deviation from the Batman character, who is always prepared and never thinks he's fully won.

Very little in Nolan's movie made any sense. That movie's plot has more holes in it than a block of swiss cheese. It's a pretty bad movie that was saved by Heath Ledger's Joker performance and hyped up solely because he died right before it came out.

@@HarryBuddhaPalm I totally agree the acting in the Nolan trilogy is great but the writing is why I haven’t gone back to them in years it like Nolan failed to understand what makes Batman Batman it’s like he set out to make cop movies set in Gotham with Batman thrown on top to sell tickets cause his trilogy focuses more on the Gotham city police department way more then Batman going as far as changing the type of theater Bruce and his parents were coming out of and changed what motivates Bruce Wayne to be Batman from the inability to save his parents to Rachel Dawes

@@kevin10001 I think he's just one of those directors that cares more about visuals than plot. Occasionally, he has a good script to work with but a lot of times, his movies are just cool visuals and stupid plots that make no sense if you take half a second to think about them.

He works alone but literally gets help from everybody

@@HarryBuddhaPalm very little In the batman made sense either.

Don't try to act like that bullet reconstruction scene made any sense.

Which is fine in and of itself, and it would've been great if that's where the story ended. But that's not where the story ended. It was a false victory that only gave them borrowed time. And while it was beautiful and self sacrificial and noble, Gotham ended up losing its White Knight and its Dark Knight, and Bruce was in agony for the next eight years. It's difficult to disassociate that fact. Batman won, but it wasn't a flawless victory.

While I agree that the flood part is the weakest of the movie . It still is good and much better than a lot of these CBM endings. It does a lot for Batman's arc. And it made sense too.If you think from Riddler's POV. Remember he tried to hurt bruce just cuz it was personal to him not because bruce did anything wrong. And this is what these lunatics do when they say they r doing these things for the benifit of all people. But in reality they do it bcoz they feel the society has wronged them and they make it very personal to them. And these kind of people do exist in real world. Aside from that. I do like the extra long scenes bcoz it let's the film breathe more. Do we really need batman taking his sweet ass time to look around ? No. But for me it does add a lot to any scene and his character, which i think is more like a creature unable to communicate on a human level and that i find very tragic.No actor has previously displayed this kind of vulnerability to the character before. But yeah it's not perfect film. I don't like some plot conviences that this take, same problem i have with TDK. If they can imporve that part , i think this new batman trilogy could really be something special.

" because even in Nolan's trilogy all those crazy stunts were made in such way that human body could survive them" Really? Batman fell out of a skysraper and didn't even break a rib. Not to mention stupid crap like him driving a dune buggy on people's rooftops.

@@HarryBuddhaPalm Nolan's Bats had cape as parachute, hooks and ropes to slow down, and his buggy had jet propulsion. When Reeves' Bats at full speed planted his head into concrete bridge, he was certainly dead. And honestly I see no reason for that falling scene to be there. He could jump from police roof, open his cape, and cut - movie lost nothing.

@@ThorneyedWT people like you need this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pOtmdHiCJNY.html

@@ThorneyedWT Batman survived a laughably unrealistic fall and this stood out to you? I’m glad that you saw your first Batman movie this year, I suppose.

at least they aren't the snyder fanboys, aparently 3 hours of crime thriller drama is boring to them but 4 hours of non stop michael bay action with instagram filters over and over and over again? yeah these people are biass

@@motor4X4kombat They’re also just arrested development simpletons. I love the Nolan movies, but I’m also not a 12-year old trapped in an overweight, 40-year old’s body so I don’t feel the need to position the things I prefer against everything else as “the worst thing ever made in movie history.” It’s just odd to see so many commenters complaining about Pattinson’s character being “too emo” while half the comments sound like teenagers wanting to off themselves over the Snyderverse’s demise.

The Joker wasn't there

@@Darduel wasn't he just terrorizing the town for a few days if not a few weeks. Wouldn't be hard to convince the public it was all him. They were even playing his videos on the news. Obviously a few people would know what's up, but they'd need to keep their mouths shut