Actually, the definition in the appendix would be a better reference, my bad: "Long wire-A wire antenna that is one wavelength or greater in electrical length. When two or more wavelengths long it provides gain and a multilobe radiation pattern. When terminated at one end it becomes essentially unidirectional off that end."
@@highlandkraftwerks Start with 6M, easy to construct - just a tad under a 20' wire. The horizontal polarization works extremely well for some extra gain when using SSB on 6M. Run it more vertical, of course, if ur transmitting FM to repeaters.
Terminated? What does that mean? Any finite wire is terminated when you cut it from the larger roll, right? I need more information on how to do that and with what. 🤓
I've been a ham for 45 years. I have always made my own antennas. I think it's one of the most interesting areas for hams. I live in mobile home park now, that doesn't allow antennas, so stealth and creativity are essential to putting up antennas. I am amazed how much I can still learn after all these years. Thanks for your video and keep up the good work! WA9H 73's
Thanks Rod, glad you liked the video. I do think it's awesome when you build an antenna and it works, its a very rewarding experience that I try to encourage.
I like the ape. We think alike. When I started Hamming in the mid-1960s it was expected that you would build your first transmitter to gain a true understanding of how it worked. That's not much the case anymore. Every time I watch him I learned something.
Perhaps one of the most useful ham radio videos for new hams. I’ve struggled getting good info as a new ham and ham groups not meeting due to COVID. I ended up doing an end fed random length wire antenna but this gave me more info to understand what I’m experiencing and ideas on how to improve it. Thanks for putting the work into creating this video.
Well, COVID is over now. The government has declared it over by rescinding all COVID benefits, so plan on getting together with other Hams to spread info on the latest stuff. Also plan on making your own stuff, especially antennas. Hams that buy antennas "off the shelf" do not learn anything about antenna theory and end up spending altogether too much money on something they could have built themselves for half the price.
Thank you for a very clear and concise explanation. Quite often these topics drift into too much technical and mathematical descriptions and my eyes glaze over and I never watch till the end. This one I enjoyed every minute of and learnt a lot. 73
2 for 2, another very helpful, well thought out presentation. I'm new to utilizing a wire for hf and bought a few hundred feet of wire, a 9 to 1, 1 to 1 and a spiderbeam fiberglass pole ready to experiment. Thanks , great stuff!
Another good video, Ape! This was first in my feed this morning even though it is a couple of years old. This is still very relevant today. As always you have a good way to teach and not condescend. Well done! Now I have to get off my butt and do the lawn before it gets to be 2000 degrees outside #TexasLiving
This is an old video but I've been watching your newer ones and your appearances on live broadcast. I consider you as one of the most knowledgeable. You and Ask Dave. Ask Dave gets way over my head a lot.
Ape! very good point about the community! That will make it grow! You are part of the golden age of ham radio! Thanks for being a soundboard for reason on items that can live in obscurity!
Hey Ape, ur right about how important the RF choke is - not only for RFI, but improved SWR as well (too much reflected RF along the coax shield negatively impacts SWR). For my base station, I use a MyAntennas 65' EFHW as a sloper, fed at my roof line 12' high and sloping up to a 37' fiberglass pole mounted at the back fence. Works fantastic! I use a DX Engineering toroid choke at the feedpoint and also at the entrance to my second floor HAM shack. No RFI and low SWR. However, for portable ops, I use a Wolf River Coil vertical antenna (which I'm absolutely in HAM-love with). For that, I put my DX Engineering toroid choke 12' down the coax from the antenna and then run another 25' coax to my rig. I experimented greatly with different lengths and found using the 12' of coax as a 'counterpoise' for a vertical worked much better than at the feedpoint or none at all. I combine that with nine 8' radials (3 off each leg of the tripod) for portable ops. 73 KJ6ER, Silicon Valley
I just found your Channel and I'm quite impressed . Ny son and I are New Ham radios I'm technician he's General so he is going to be the one learning most of this and we are just starting out so this is perfect timing . Lots more to learn and equipment to get.
@@TheSmokinApe I subscribed months ago. But up to now I just used RU-vid's search algorithim to show me thumbnails of the subject I was interested in. BTW our you open to suggestions for videos?
am in the process of getting my license and setting up a station. I, too, live in an HOA so the antenna issue IS an issue. Thank you for the very informative and well presented video. I learned a lot and have a new view point on long wire antennas.
Your comments at the start are correct. A lot of advice is thrown out casually and assuming a knowledge that if present wouldn't be generating the questions. I also think the requirements for RX are not so onerous as for TX and its not always clear which the advice is aimed at. I am struggling to find a suitable antenna but i also want to consider the RF radiation impact at the same time and for my small space its very constricting. Also while I thought i was comfortable with the concept of counterpoises the practical side is slightly confusing me as the various advice out there doesn't seem consistent or detailed.
Mate (don't like calling you Ape), Thanks a lot for this video and the links in it. Very useful information in this, for people wanting to install these types of antennas. 73, ZL3XD.
Awesome video Ape, To be totally honest, I've been familiar with you through your collaborative work with TO and the guys. I'm really impressed by your channel and I just subscribed. Keep up the great content. 73
I feel you've provided very useful information about end-fed antennas for those who want to work multiple HF bands. Houses with large yards and space for multiple antennas or towers are increasing expensive. Many younger hams live in apartments and condos where a single multiband stealth wire antennas is possible. Also, older hams whose children have left home may want to down size and move into smaller homes or condos. For those considering an end-fed antenna, I've worked Australia and the US East Coast from California using 100 watts on 40 meters SSB with a 71' non resonant end-fed sloper going from a 25' balcony down to a 6' wooden fence. It has a 9:1 unun, 50' RG8u, two 15' counterpoises, common mode choke near the transceiver and a manual antenna tuner. I check into 40 and 80 meter nets and get good signal reports. Using that antenna I've made QRP contacts with as little as 1 watt. I'd encourage hams to experiment with end-fed antennas, especially if you have limited space and need stealth. Your results may be surprising. Thanks again for the excellent presentation and the helpful references!
Great video, Ape you rock man. I have followed yourself advice with my end feds and have found similar results. I apply a choke at my 9:1 and have used a counterpoise, but I'm still learning by playing. I recently used my 9:1 end fed at a inverted L using a 30ft telescoping with good results as well. I plan on exploring with which I help to use to get some more experience using my nanovna and experimenting with the different stuff> -because hey just like you have said, it's fun and it more important makes you a better ham operator when you understand what you are doing by "doing radio" and apply the -art- of our hobby.
Ok you covered all the jibber jabber everyone covers (how to hang and configurations) do another vid about the endfed lengths and the balun and design needs.
Thanks for making a video where you actually cite sources and provide an objective comparison! I just want to caution regarding "reading online reviews"...please understand that some users are biased (both good and bad), some have been paid or are provided with free equipment, or their reasons for providing a positive review might actually be the opposite of your requirements or use case. Ya know what would make the video go from good to excellent? A round table of youtube "experts" at the end discussing this evidence based material and applying it to station operation. 73 de N2MXX
I highly recommend a 9:1 unun whether you build one or buy one for experimenting. With a tuner and a bit of an imagination you'd be surprised what metal objects can be turned into an antenna. This past year I played around with all the same wire lengths you spoke of and it's been interesting but recently settled on something around 71 feet. Also experiment with counterpoise wires in different lengths and directions multiples etc.. One interesting thing I've found is some bands don't require the tuner at all so experiment with that too. I recently found my current configuration has a pretty flat SWR on 17 meters without the tuner in addition to other bands I was already bypassing the tuner on.
I've had great success with a longwire antenna and a tuner on HF, It's just I want a better way to feed it from the end. The longer the better. I got 300' I also live in a forest on the side of a mountain. I got the MFJ analyzer and I like it. We all know what MFJ stands for (Mighty Fine Junk). It does work good though. I like your channel it's very informative.
I'm listening while working on the house. Inverted L's are vertical antennas. They require a groundplane. They are not to be confused with an inverted vee which is a horizontal polarization antenna and requires no ground plane. The inverted L is a compromise quarter wave vertical when you can't get enough height, you fold it over. So if you want a 160m antenna, your inverted vee will work very well against the inverted L if you get the vee center up a half wave in height. Maybe you can see why a lot of low banders go with inverted L's. They really aren't necessary on 20m or above because it is so easy to hang a dipole. Peace.
Hey man, By far the best info I have found on this subject in all the week I have been listening to others you really help solidify some things for me and your info is super helpful. thanks,.
I have gone the EFHW kit route, I've also started a BBTD whole house roof antenna while hoping to get a DX Commander Expedition when DXE starts selling them. No HOA here just urban country, i.e., no sidewalks.
I like the new background and I like videos that get me thinking. Props I think would be a good be sure to clearly delineate different usage scenarios too. Getting started with basic stuff can work, but yes it should be done with an eye toward growing your experience and evolving your station to be as good as it can be. I am guilty of making the advice of throwing out a wire and stuffing an wire into a radio connector; however, that's an attempt someone to give a means to listen to a radio they might not have ability to connect properly yet in order to give them access to it. Should they get the proper connectors? YOU KNOW IT! -This is the beginning of the magic very often. I wish I could gift a PL-259 and 25ft of some coaxial cable to everyone getting started... :) BUT There is always a starting point, and sometimes that starting is a very low start indeed. I'm remind myself of my humbling beginnings on my ongoing radio journey... That being that said YES let us give the best advice we can and advance the art and help us make radio better for everyone!
Thanks Mike. I'm planning to do more detailed videos on the EFRW and EFHW but it's going to have to wait for warmer weather. One thing I always say is just get the antenna up, then modify or adjust as you progress. Thanks for the comment!
Someone finally explains it so I can understand thanks man! I've been trying to figure out what all these concepts meant off and on for a few years now and this video answers a dozen questions I had about why I couldn't get reception. LIKED SUBSCRIPTION AQUIRED
Thanks for the video. I'm just getting back in HF after about a decade off the air. I've used flat dipoles, inverted v s and a full wave loop for 80 meters (one of my all time favorites). My tree limbs are more in the way now so I'm taking a look at a lot of different ideas for the wire. Your video answered a lot of questions for me. One was about the inverted L long wire antenna, the long wire inverted v type long wire and another was the long wire that went up, across horizontally and then back down as well as how to feed those and how high above the earth. One question I have is how radiation pattern feed ohms etc are affected if I put most of the wire horizontal, but give the wire 90 degree direction changes with most of the wire horizontal? That could give me a lot more wire surface. Oh, I also noted the lengths to avoid and to use. Thank you.
Hey SE, glad the video was helpful. A horizontal bend will certainly change the radiation pattern and may change the impedance but give it a try. I have seen them in giant U and Z patterns where people were making plenty of contacts 👍
I'm currently waiting for my technician call sign, as a step to my general thereafter. Your videos that focus on antennas peak my interest, and I have a lot to learn. In fact, experimenting with antennas, especially building them myself is my primary interest in ham radio. I've worked with VHF/UHF antennas for radio and television since a kid (obsession) and learned that their location (minimizing multipath) matters WAY more than their gain or style. But then again, those are yagi's. What about 10 meters and a dipole??? If I run a wire across my yard between some trees, will location of my antenna matter as much as what I've experienced with UHF/VHF bands, provided I have it elevated at the optimum distance from the ground?
Hey Rick, good luck on the general test. Dipoles are some of the best performing and easiest to build antennas. You want them about 1/2 wave above ground, so a ten meter dipole should be five meters high 👍
Got it and Thank you!. You have been a HUGE help to getting me started. I had to really belly laugh when you said some people take years to decide what they want for equipment. That could easily describe me! Well, I don't take years, but yea, with major purchases I do the spreadsheet thing comparing features and specifications to a finite degree, and I drag those purchases out weeks and sometimes longer than most! But today I"m actually placing my radio order! @@TheSmokinApe
I have a Ultimax 100 Hf wire antenna which is a mere 22ft long, i have used it once on a vertical and it worked fine up a Spiderpole 10m, albiet we was at height, for 10/11/20m
I have a 12 gauge solid copper core 280ft long wire or 85 meters... it is placed 6 foot above the ground on top of my dogear fence.... I also have the radio grounded from an outside ground.... what type of UnUn will work or will be best on this antenna ? or do I need one ? Plus I'm just a listener...
Ape, Just a little question regarding wire antennas, if I may?..... Is there any difference in the RF characteristics of a copper wire that is covered with insulation, say PVC or PE, versus a wire that is bare? With respect to velocity factor or other such parameters that could affect the performance of a wire antenna? Cheers, Mike ZL3XD.
ARRL Antenna Book "21st Ed Chapter 4 page 25" defines a longwire "A wire antenna is not actually a “long wire” unless it is one wavelength or greater in length."
This was VERY helpful. I am HOA constrained and have a fan dipole in the attic - it works, but... A question about the feed line chokes - how many loops of RG8 feedline do you need? The pic on Palomar's site looks like a smaller coax. Regardless, thanks again for the time/effort you put into sharing this - gotta check out some of your videos! 73 de ki5gx.
Great video! Wouldn't placing a choke at the antenna feedpoint prevent the coax from acting as a counter poise (which is normally a good idea with an EFRW)?
Great video! Without researching (purely your opinion), how well do you think an 80m EFHW w/counterpoise would work with the feed point at 30 feet sloping down to about 5 feet? I know you said you prefer feed point at the ground.
Many thanks for the excellent video.. You make reference to connecting the nano to a PC, but I am having difficulty finding a link to the nanovna saver software for Windows.. Do you happen to have a link please?..73
Ive been using a long wire every day son,er sir... been using it less than 3 years. About 264ft long. Mostly digital. works real real low to the ground due to the poor soil ~5 ft (basicaly gravel and sand) in my area. I near Maine, on 20-40m, Japan on 40m during the early morning in Tucson.. I am strictly digital ham. I have it shaped like the letter J on my city lot with the longest part of the wire facing west/east.
Just throw a wire in the tree - is the starting point of personal exploration, design and advancement. So long as there are elmers around to coach others, just throw a wire up in the tree, and start from there.
I have a random wire antenna. Used that to get SW broadcast stations before becoming ham listener. it is not very good, I have too high noisefloor with it.
wire end fed is all i am able to sneak out of my apartment for only night hours I have a AT2 @000 watt manual tuner and A ftdx 1200 I am able to get about 65 foot outside ,my question i what freq will i be able to get W8RRM
I just connected a RTL SDR to the defunct telephone copper house wire. Works fine for shortwave radio. The antenna is probably many kilometers long. I have no idea if that is a plus or not
There's a disused 1950's railway line near me , not connected at either end about 4km long and i have been wondering what use that might be as an antenna?
What I wonder is, does the wire need to be as straight as possible, or could you say, run a wire on a sort of loom back and forth with insulators on each end like I've seen illustrations of for AM radio antennas on the roof of a house from back in the 30's. I'm not worried about connectors as I'll be using a Hallicrafters S-40A from the late 40's that just has screw terminals on the back. I live in a rural area with no zoning, much less an HOA and I have a large yard so I could use pretty much anything for an antenna. I just don't know what the best type would be for my situation.
Any hands-on advice for counterpoise systems? I’ve read they should be in-line and/or perpendicular to the endfed random wire in an inverted v configuration. I’ve read contradictory advice on the question of if the counterpoise wires should be cut for resonant lengths. I’ve had parts on order for about a month, so whenever my unun gets here, I’ll be building a random wire antenna with something like 268’ of wire for the antenna, and I’ve got plenty of wire on hand for the counterpoise system. With that much wire, my configuration might be more of a “fallen L” than an inverted v, but I don’t know that such things matter, other than for amusement.
Hey Ray. A counterpoise can be directional or at least affect the directionality of your radiation pattern. I typically will start with a 17' counterpoise and adjust from there if necessary. Thanks for watching!
I did some more digging. My “bullet” 9:1 looks to be shipping from Palomar Engineering. Their documentation states “Use of one or more random length counterpoise(s) connected to the ground post of the matching unit may also improve antenna efficiency and reduce SWR on certain bands. The first counterpoise should be installed under the horizontal portion of the antenna for best results. Suggested counterpoise lengths are 12, 16, 24 and 32 feet with a 50 foot coax feed and a choke installed 50 feet from the antenna feed point. Counterpoises can be straight or zig-zagged.” They expect that the coax will act as a counterpoise, and they suggest a choke on the coax near the radio. I’m planning on choking near the antenna and putting down more counterpoise wire, though that’s an easy experiment to run. Thanks for the video and the reply!
So, I have a question for you on the EFHW antenna. I had a MyAntennas EFHW-8010 1kW and love it with my Yaesu FT-991A, I used it as a sloper. Unfortunately, it was struck by lightning, everything blow up wire and all. So now, I am shopping for another one. I am thinking about getting another one but, what is the difference between the EFHW-8010 1kW and the EFHW-8010-LP 250W, I do see that there is a power difference. Is this somthing that I should take into consideration and what does this mean as far as the antenna, the 1kW and 250W. Will buying the 250W make the antenna less effective? Thank you SmokinApe.
Typically the power rating comes from the size and number of toroidal cores inside the transformer. You should be fine with the 250w unless you are running an amplifier 👍
On the opening splat of this video there's an antenna pictured, assumedly a long-wire antenna, which isn't in your Amazon store. Can you tell me what it's called so I can check it out?
Hey Ape tried to use a sling shot but my tum keeps getting in the way. The best I can do 15 to 20 feet. I know I'm missing a lot of signal. Was thinking about my antennas so I have one about 15 ft flat top. Oh it is efhw 10-80, has no ears. My 40mts dipole is ok. 8 want to get out of the house and into the woods. Looking for some input tnxs 73 KQ4CD Paul Oh the radio it a 991a
@@TheSmokinApe it doesn't like my tuner on 40mts . Cut dipole 62'3" for 7.250 2.5 Guess I just getting old. Is thick headed I guess. Mainly I want to run portable go outside gettin woods using a 991a
Hello Ape, I have a multiband EFHW-8010 by MyAntennas. My thought was to start at one end of the house across and over to the garage and then over to the shed. This would extend the wire all the way. Problem is it may not look real nice and there is one person in particular who does not like a wire running all over. So ..... Is it possible to install it in my attic? I would need to run it around the parameter a few times to fully extend the wire. What is your thoughts on that idea?
I don't think that would work too well. You could try a shorter wire, about 66' and get 40, 20,15,10; thats what I did and with my tuner I get 30 and 17 as well. You really don't want to loop these types of antennas.
@@TheSmokinApe Could I simply cut the wire on this device? I then could run it straight across the peak of the attic. I have an older rig I got up and running. I just want to play with for now. I cant afford anything else as yet.
They also talk in very technical terms. Not everyone has a degree in engineering. Simple terms will help new hams. Than they can learn the terminology...
When you have 10 acres in a treed rectangle on a big hill, space is not a problem. When I got my Extra, I wanted to be on 160M and a dipole antenna was not a problem. I have experimented with end fed half wave antennas, and found them wanting compared with a simple dipole. Perhaps you did not consider your future with an HOA, but signing any agreement with those despicable people is a crime against freedom. One was started in my area, and I broke their back by not signing. They harassed me to get me to sign each year, but I refuse and harass them back (part 15 wars, eh?) No intentional interference meant, but my home is RF free, and I can prove it. Sorry they buy such Chinese junk !!!
This is so far over my head .. my head is spinning. Think I will just leave the wire I threw over a tree that is going south and un twist it from my radio antennae and roll it up and hook it on the closer tree when I am not using it. I am in Alberta Canada and can get Iraq and Tibet etc just wanted to try to get Europe. Sounds like an excellent video but not for numbskulls like me who just has a radio with SW on it ha ha. If someone can tell me if I should move my wire from north to south in some other direction to get a different part of the globe ? Yup that is how little I know Thanks !
