@@langreeves6419What are you talking about? The bait was the X-Men version of quicksilver showing up. The switch is him being 'just some asshole' People thought this was the MCU's entry point into the X-Men universe. What are you not getting about that?
It was kind of the move that defined post Endgame Marvel. They were literally building up the early part of the Multiverse Saga, and instead of introducing a small but significant plot thread that they could expand on as much as they wanted later, they used Evan Peters as a dumb joke. Now we're stuck knee deep in a multiverse storyline that feels way to drawn out, but also like it never really started.
Yeah I’m honestly just confused more than anything when it comes to the recent storylines and where it’s all supposed to be going. This should be the simplest layup in the world but I feel like I’m just watching an Olympic team that’s never practiced together spending the whole game passing back and forth around the perimeter and then one of them randomly dunks on the universe before it’s right back to basics.
@@MisterPeckingOrderit’s very odd that they didn’t use the same multiverse concept for each film. I do remember hearing that America Chavez was supposed to be a similar link but was pushed out of it due to Covid
You nailed it. It really felt like it was the beginning of the multiverse. I thought Wanda's powers were getting so strong and out of control that it pulled her brother from another universe and that would have consequences. With all the incursion stuff we have now it actually would've fit the narrative perfectly. What a waste.
It's like making a joke that they is clever but no one liked it and instead made everyone mad. Wanda Vision doesn't even come to my just because how they made a fool out me among millions of other. It's just a mediocre Marvel Show among the sea of Mediocrity. For me Loki and Moon Knight will be the best of the Marvel TV
Marvel level of disrespect was insane, I mean you casing Fox Quicksilver actor as Wanda's brother? What do you think people gonna expect? They knew what they were doing: trolling, just like they did with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3, Task Master in Black Widow or even Mysterio in Far From Home.
Yeah this wasn't even a joke it was just straight up trolling they did to us for no reason other than to laugh at the audience knowing we aren't laughing back
@@Verebazs yeah I wouldn’t say Mysterio was a troll move only cuz anybody that actually knows who Mysterio is called it before even seeing the movie. Messing with people is the characters entire thing so that gets a pass specifically
@@uchihabomber1296 Exactly, Mysterio is a character built on deception. They tricked the audience with a revelation of "oh yeah, he's more like his comics counterpart. He's a villain lol"
@@SpectacularSpiderFan I agree if anything the casual audience was tricked since I know they mainly watch the movies and don’t know anything else Marvel besides the MCU canon
To be fair, we were off of an insane high only thinking it would get even better from there with actual series lined up with the original cast and all. But nope, it only gradually declined from there and got steeper the farther from Endgame we veered. Loki and GotG 3 basically provided our only reprieves from the all out assualt on us fans.
They'll never know what your u sacrificed. Yeah but it could have been thousands more if she hadn't put up her own quarantine. Was this the start of justifying some fucked up shit?
I remember when this first happened , we were all pissed😭. We thought this was finna be some big fox x men and mcu avengers cross over but they made it a dick joke. That is insane work
@@kropianimation1774there were no signs other than the fact that they chose a person whom plays quicksilver in the fox universe to play him in wandas world, all just after fox and marvel finished their deal.
I just don't think you should sacrifice in-universe logic, for the sake of a joke. They thought they were being meta, but really it just came across as Disney buying Marvel, then making fun of both the property and its fans.
I contend that the MCU is that universe. Evan Peters' Quicksilver was displaced from his own universe &, thinking that they'd go after him for being a mutant, changed his name to Ralph Bohner & hid in Westview, where Agatha found out about his abilities & mind controlled him for her own benefit. Until they actually address this in-universe, there's nothing to say it's not canon.
I wonder if in that other Universe the MCU stayed as Strong as it was in the lead up to endgame. Where there were smart people in the offices going "no, don't do the fans dirty like that, We said this is the Multiverse Saga and we just had a big win for us getting use of all these characters, Let's focus on the things people want instead of pulling random stuff no one was looking for and not make a show about every minor character." And we got Evan Peters and She-hulk didnt twerk or whine about how she is better at controlling her anger because she has had to face things like catcalls to BRUCE of all people... and then maybe people wouldnt be so polarized on her because they had actual court professionals advise the court Drama show, Falcon and WS didnt have tons of messy rewrites because they were too scared it would sound like the pandemic, maybe there wouod be better communication between Wandavision and Multiverse of Madness so Wandas character didnt take a complete turn to unredeemable psycho town murdering people in other realitoes so she can have the kids she had for 1 week....
this was not the only problem with Wandavision by a mile. past the middle point WandaVision turned into a cliched marvel slop, that's the problem. it even ended with a big cgi battle between 2 people with the exact same powers. the cleverness of the first 4 episodes was a ruse.
Yep, I don't see it mentioned enough that they made Harkness a goofy "sitcom" villain. The tone was nothing like we've seen from Marvel and WAY out of place in this universe. They did her dirty AND now she has her own damn show on the way! Marvel's misses after Endgame have just piled on. While they weren't perfect at all before EG, it wasn't so widespread...
Absolute garbage. I even remember some higher up said they “needed” to have some big climactic battle because it’s a marvel property and that’s what the fans crave. Stupid, bad instincts.
Exactly. Marvel did such a good job creating a unique, mysterious, and dark (by MCU standards) story but they couldn’t stick the landing. The Agatha plot twist had very limited payoff and the ending lacked the emotional depth and tension the show did such a good job building
@@StephenKterror Maybe, but as it is, the show presents a character struggling with grief and letting go who learns somewhat how to deal with it while also seeing the pain that her unhealthy coping methods caused others. Then in Multiverse, she goes "screw that, let's do it again but even worse."
I think the way they treated this character and what she went through during this show resonated a little too close to some personal things that were happening in my life at about the same time. To see her go through that and come out a little better was hard to watch then but still somewhat helpful. Throwing that away all away in Multiverse was tough to see. Wanda went from being relatable to unredeemable, and that wasn't fair to her.
@@jasonlewis3742 Yes, but they don't go into it fully, due to some contradicting and intentional actions on Wanda's part. They try so hard to make us sympathize with her and make her still a hero at the end of the story, when during her grief process, have hurt, traumatized and threatened many people before she reached her final and accepting stage.
Speaking of Wandavision going through various generations of tv, I always felt they missed a trick not doing an animated intro - the golden era of the likes of the Simpsons, King of the Hill, etc.
Quicksilver talks fast and runs faster. The character has next to no development and they tried to do the same slow-mo scene in each subsequent movie, each to lesser effect. Why is that better than either of the Magnetos or Xaviers??
@@terminatrix92purely because he was an entertaining character. Not because he was as well acted or written but because of the radiant energy coming from the character. Talks fast, runs faster and his screen time goes faster still. Both magnetos are phenomenal but I can’t say either are as gleefully entertaining as watching quicksilver trolling the rest of the cast and having his slow-moments with some kicker music coming from his sped up Walkman. Those scenes may not be very good narratively but they are dumb fun and at the time we’re absolutely insane. Tl;dr he’s just a fun character that gets only as much screen time as he needs without necessarily overstaying and his few appearances are always fun.
Exactly. His real name was Peter Maximoff, no relation to the other Maximoff family, & he was someone who wasn't in the system, because he was secretly from the FoX-Men Universe. If there's no official lore to contradict this, it's canon.
It was the era of “subverting expectations,” which is silly when talking about Star Wars, fantasy stories, comic books, etc. Because the expectation IS the medium. Having a larger than life hero, setting that hero with a similarly epic baddie, having them fight it out, or switch places, or make the story epic in some other meaningful way IS why we go to these stories. Anybody can be a regular Bohner, but only one person (or maybe two) can be Quicksilver. We expected epicness, they handed us a silly subversion. It removed the stakes, it didn’t raise them. It didn’t replace those removed stakes with anything higher. It just deflated the story like a fart balloon.
Ah, yes, 😒 that time period when fan-abuse was trendy in the entertainment business. Where they weren't just talking bad about the fans but weaving loud in one's face spiteful subversions and jabs at them in the content itself. Really shows what a different time that was as since they were sitting confident from their predecessor's success and things were so stable they all thought they could pull this and the franchises would continue succeeding.
Peter Maximoff was confirmed dead in Deadpool and Wolverine as stated by Gambit, Quicksilver was killed by Cassandra Nova and in the end credits tribute to the Fox X-Men universe, Evan Peters is shown in his Quicksilver costume, confirming the character has been killed off. As for Ralph Bohner, Evan Peters is rumored to make an appearance in Agatha All Along.
It’s not confirmed, but it is implied. There’s still hope if the x-men universe seen in the marvels has a Quicksilver who happens to be Evan Peters 🤷♂️
I didnt hate it as much as everyone else, lots of people let that one thing ruin the whole show for them which IMO is stupid. I still think Wandavision remains one of the best post Endgame MCU projects. I am still really sad we didnt actually get Evan Peters in the MCU, part of me was hoping theyd use it as a way to really start with the multiverse stuff or smth
Ralph Boner could’ve been an alias for the Evan Peters’ Quicksilver, who along with the Fox X-Men characters of the alternate timeline were summoned to the MCU as Wanda merged both the MCU and the 2nd Fox Universe, explaining why the TVA was monitoring Deadpool and Wolverine, Patrick Stewart’s Professor X being a member of the Illuminati, as well as introducing the Multiverse concept.
His appearance in Wanda Vision shows how to do a "Bait n Switch" very wrong and end up pissing off the audience. And that show had so many issues already. Even the name "Ralph Bohner" sounds so dumb.
I’m still off the opinion that Marvel missed their golden ticket for retroactively integrating mutants into the MCU. Having it end with “No more mutants”, and making every movie that came before into a version of history where the mutants were already erased would have given them the ability to tell whatever story they wanted to for mutant origins and not worry about conflict. They could hand wave all the continuity errors as, “yea, but it only played out in that movie that way because Wanda erased the X-men. The *real* history is that they did join the Avengers last stand against Thanos. And Wolverine *really was* in Captain America, the First Avenger, but Wanda had erased him from the timeline.
I just want to say for the record that I never thought Evan Peters was playing his X-Men character and had a feeling it was just a meta casting choice from the beginning I know nobody cares but whatever
I contend that Evan Peters IS the FoX-Men Universe Quicksilver who was teleported to the MCU & went into Witness Protection under a different name. It's a missed opportunity if they didn't address this in "Deadpool & Wolverine".
Man I loved it. It's literally an ideal place to play with expectations. "Don't do it with a beloved character" you don't have expectations for characters you don't care about.... You *only* do it to beloved characters. Maybe in the "we'll have a reveal trailor for our twist" where you spoil the subversion genre of pop films, sure. It sucks. But literally why watch films and TV if we're afraid of being uncomfortable of feeling something lol afraid of being minimally challenged. I swear, every time a TV show or film makes people be active viewers, all you get is "this was bad fan service! They just thought they were being clever!!" No, they thought you would be clever lol
I mean...I understand why people are upset that this wasn't the sign of big X-Men MCU stuff, but it seems unreasonably much at this point. They used Quicksilver because he would be the ONLY one who could pull Wanda deeper into the illusion as Vision was starting to figure it out
I don’t hate it, but it definitely fell off near the end. In comparison to typical MCU (especially the TV shows), it might as well be breaking bad, but when compared with real TV it becomes pretty obvious it’s not anything special
Also wild how at the time it seemed like they felt too good and smart to connect their universe to the hit or miss Fox films and played it for shock value instead, when they've pretty much used those exact Fox characters to gain hype for their movies and shows ever since Multiverse of Madness lol
That was one of if not the biggest most disgusting bullsht the MCU made so far. And there was already the "mandarin-twist" and the "taskmaster-slaughtering".
It’s because he’s too Overpowered for the Disney’s Writing department to actually find a way to properly write his characters without having all stakes removed destroying every story that he’s involved in.. & for a while the Disney writers were worry free about Speed Problems but everything changed when the Fox Merger attacked & all of sudden Disney Writers were sent right back to square one with the MCU Multiverse Sega opened up the door for FOX Evan Peters Quicksilver to come back who is 1000% faster than their own MCU Quicksilver was making a evenly much more of colossal headache for them try to navigate around. So they had the brilliant idea to Cast him in *MCU AS A RANDOM NOBODY WITH NO POWERS & NARRATIVE SIGNIFICANCE OF ANY KIND & CALL IT A DAY* just to say that because Evan Peters was already in the MCU as a completely different character he can’t ever reprise his role as Quicksilver ever again in the future.. 🤨 It’s like casting James McAvoy as the Crushed Hotdogs Stand owner from the Battle Of New York in the first avengers movie just to avoid bringing him back as Professor X.. 😒
I'm so sick of meta sh*t. Being self aware doesn't make you clever if it's the only story element you use constantly. It's not even a trope. It's a cop out.
I love the fact that, every single time the MCU pulls out rather clever twists or fake-outs, they become incredibly controversial. Reminds me of when they had that Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3, well executed (they played us after all)... and then fans hated it so much that they literally made a short (All Hail The Kind) just to say "oh yeah, don't worry (sweating) the *real* Mandarin is out somewhere, this was our plan all along ha ha (hysterical laughter)".
Can we also talk about how marvel did Reed Richards and Johnny Storm dirty??? Also can we talk about how Deadpool and Wolverine was such an awful movie and a slap of the face of fox fans???
The twist might've been a little more well received if the writers didn't use it as an excuse to make a boner joke. That element is what fully crossed the line between "toying with expectations" and "giving a middle finger to the audience."
I'm so pissed at how they're treating Wanda!!!! Wandvision was really good, but MOM sucked and so does Agatha. Wanda is one of, if not the most interesting characters in all of comics.
It worked. It gave a Francis type character for the Malcolm in the Middle episode, gave Agatha a way to get Wanda to open up to someone she trusts as much as Vision and made us believe he was really Pietro even though they seem to not have been able to get ATJ again. It also sets up that their magic can’t resurrect people so people don’t demand Wanda bring people back moving forward. I thought it was great. Like I would have loved if that led to Quicksilver being a part of the MCU, his slow motion scenes are some of the best comic book movie sfx scenes out there. There’s also no reason this prevents him from returning with that actor again.
Loved Wondavision up to that point. I could have overlooked the super bland, boring, by the numbers, ending CGI fight, but the bait and switch of multiverse quicksilver just being a dick joke soured the ending for me.
I've found this with a lot of the MCU TV. It feels like it's building up to big consequence, then almost always the show is just a 6-10 episode trailer for a movie. "See how this plays out in Doctor Strange..." Happened too often now.
Ralph Bohner in my opinion was meant to show how vulnerable people are when grieving. Wanda lost everyone and by WANDAVISION EPISODE 5, the show wanted to show Wanda in her bargaining stage, hence Evan Peters. We all know Aaron Taylor Johnson played Pietro so Evan Peters’ Quicksilver appearing should have been a red flag, except Wanda was in her bargaining stage, she was willing to take ANYTHING just to get rid of the pain or suppress it, so she accepted this red herring as it helped lessen the pain. We are human and when grieving, we would do anything just to lessen the pain of grief even if it is something so messed up such as rebounding. It made perfect sense for Wanda to blindly accept this stranger as her brother, and Evan Peters was the only actor who could have pulled off this misdirection as we knew him as Fox’s Quicksilver, so this would NOT have worked with AJT’s Quicksilver. Honestly, I think the Ralph Bohner twist was PERFECT
WOW! Never knew this about the way the writers thought about Peter/Pietro. I always thought he was the witness protection agent Woo was looking to find and that resin was Peter was an alter reality being. After seeing this, it’s pathetic and obnoxious that the writers just cast him to actually be Ralph.
It worked really well within the show. People's expectations have nothing to do with the actual storytelling. Having Agatha use a guy to pretend to be Pietro in order to manipulate Wanda is a great idea. Having an actor that played a version of Pietro for another studio is a solid meta gag. Darcy immediately tells us "Wanda recast Pietro?!" so that we would know this wasn't her brother, and was not the MCU bringing Fox stuff over. But everyone was too excited for easter eggs and hoping for mutants and crossovers.
Yeesh. Didn’t bother me much. I’ve given up on anything with 12 parsecs of an xman having any semblance of linear consistency. Ralph served his purpose.
My issue is its a 4th wall break. Which is fine in She Hulk and Deadpool but here it didn't make sense. Because recasting her brother makes sense as a wall break in the hex but then goes a step further and is a real world wall break. It just misled for the sake of misleading.
I still think that Marvel had a big plan of treating its 2021 releases as Multiversal fake-outs in order to build up No Way Home. If you consider that Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was supposed to be released a month after Wandavision, then it checks. - Wandavision: "Hey look, they have Fox's Quicksilver as the new Pietro. The Multiverse is real!" except, no, he was a totally unrelated character. Sorry, the multiverse is still closed - Doctor Strange 2: "This movie is going to open up to the Multiverse. Look, Patrick Stewart is in there!" except that he only played a variant of Professor X, and the movie itself barely played with the whole Multiverse thing (the other variants were just MCU characters in alternate fashion after all) - Loki: "they are definitely going to bring in the Multiverse this time!" except no, this show is barely tied to what was going on in the larger MCU at that time Then, after months of frustrating teases that led to nowhere, the show What If would prove that, yes, a Multiverse is here, but still confined within the MCU. Afterwards, late into that year, we get No Way Home... and we finally see what we expected the whole year, with the Spiderverse full in action.
Nope that's Disney pushing the divisive gay, race, gender state propaganda used to divide Americans, so we don't pay attention to their crimes against the tax payer.
Oh no the slump was bigger don't forget that time period the franchises were still big and winning but then fan-abuse, subversion, and trolling the fans became trendy for the entertainment industry. The crop of creators inherited franchises and were so sure they couldn't fail they openly had the franchises troll and talk ill of the fanbase very loudly and without subtly.
The thing with people thinking Wandavision would still be a house of M adaptation by episode 7 is that if they had watched the show they’d know that just wasn’t the case from episode 1
This definitely didn't age well since Marvel ended up bringing back a lot of the legacy actors to reprise their roles in movies like No Way Home and Deadpool 3.
Seeing people get so angry about Marvel pranking them is so freaking hilarious. 😀 The FoX-Men movies showed exactly why an insanely fast speedster is a bad idea in a superhero ensemble movie. Fox realized it themselves. As fast as Quicksilver was portrayed to be, he could solve most problems in a matter of seconds. That's why he was never in the movies for long. Marvel also realized it, and gave him a heroic death; saving Hawkeye and the kid. That should have told everyone that we ain't ever getting Quicksilver again.
Honestly, the Fox universe is not so bad after all. Sure, they wasted Quicksilver in Dark Phoenix, but at least they gave him better treatment in Days of future past and X men Apocalypse, unlike the MCU did. First, they wasted their Quicksilver and didn't make him fast enough to outrun bullets and killed him, and then they brought Even peters in, only to turn him into a dirty joke.
As long as Marvel cares about their continuity of their cinematic universe (their main selling point), then frivolous stunts trying to revive characters they deliberately decided to kill off are probably never going to fly. Wanda is the character they had the plan for, not Evan Peters the actor. If anything his role in wandavision was both intriguing and ultimately silly, which is a smack on the wrist compared to what sony is trying to do to spider man
I saw a girl once Ralph Bohner online. It was gross, a kinda felt bad for her. I'm really glad my gf doesn't Ralph Bohner. She can take the whole thing without even gagging. She's a champ.
Mcu just wanted to make fun of fox xmen. It took deadpool of all characters to respect them while still having fun. Hopefully they continue this into secret wars
Maybe it’s an issue with the hiring at Disney now. Too young and they fancy themselves too smart and think cringe is ironically funny. Too old and they fancy themselves too smart and above it, and they try to do what they THINK kids think is cringe and funny.
It would have been such an easy way to introduce mutants into the MCU, that Wanda had wished them all away from every having existed in the first place at some point in the past and wiped everyone's memories of them in the process, then "undo" the spell at the end, and voila: mutants in the MCU. Sigh...
Lmfaoooooooo I remember Ralph Bohner "Boner" 😅😅😅 good ole multiversefrom Fox into Disney Marvel! Although Quicksilver died in Avengers Age of Ultron and Scarlett Witch apparently died in Dr Strange 2. I do see them all coming back possibly from different universes just to get them all back and together once again. Even Wanda's children Wiccan & Speed.
I loved the original run of Wandavision, I watched every episode like 4 times, the first one being right at launch at 3:00AM…. But man, did Wandavision have the worst ending ever. The final 2 episodes don’t live up to the beginning of the series, and as much as I originally loved the series I’ve never gone back to rewatch it again, because I remember the ending is just a deflating balloon
