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The loyal 3 is what happens when game freak actually tries to balance a pokemon around its ability. The designers of chien-pao and chi-yu could learn something from them.
@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 Over-balancing in fighting games vs synergy heavy turn-based games like pokemon and mtg are very different in how they work though, because in a fighting game every character has to be able to do everything the game requires to some extent since only they are under the control of the player at any given time. In a game like pokemon, each character is only doing one major part of the battling while rarely doing anything else. A super tanky mon can't also be a fast sweeper or it becomes broken, so it has to either give up part of one niche or lose both, unless it's gamefreak's favorite for the gen. By contrast, a fighting game character that is high health must also have high damage and/or good neutral moves to be effective, and even then being slow can condemn them to the low tiers, and any glass cannon has to be made much more noticeably better than everyone else in their niche right up until they get hit. One move on an fg character can be as impactful as a whole pokemon on a team, but they're still bound to their other moves, so when a move gets overtuned, the character becomes stronger but is still beatable, and when a move is weaker than others, it's still the best the character's got. When a pokemon gets overtuned, players get to choose the rest of their team to work with that mon, and when a pokemon is underpowered, they just get ignored because there's better options.
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 Nah, they’re just balanced. Overbalancing is what Bungie did to the Vex Mythoclast _waaay_ back in Destiny 1 when they nerfed it from the best gun in the game (a combination of lowest TTK even with missed shots, no damage fall-off, little recoil, and absurd rarity that made fights between two Mythoclasts almost unheard of) and made it completely unviable against even blue weapons when they lowered damage output in their first attempt to reel it in. These three are viable against normal tiers seeing as they’re placed in RU and UU in singles, but Pokemon has extremely broken powercreep that shuts out anything with even the smallest downside in a pure competitive meta. It’s balancing in a game where the best choices have broken advantages and almost no downsides.
Well considering if you read their lore from the map during the phase where you’re hunting them down for the masks, it sounds like they were always weak, stupid and dull. They just happened to get a bit of a power boost from whatever Pokémon it was who gave them the toxic chain.
Well, if you played the DLC to the end, you’d know that Ogerpon’s emotions are able to influence its strength in battle. During the final fight, it keeps getting back up after what should be the final blow because of its memories of traveling with you and its previous trainer, as well as receiving a stat boost. Imagine how Ogerpon’s strength was boosted from the loss of its trainer. Now imagine a 100 base power ivy cudgel that may or may not have been boosted by this theoretical stat increase. Type advantages aren’t everything. A wild level 5 paldean wooper probably isn’t going to survive a swords dance boosted gigaton hammer from a level 100 Tinkaton with perfect IVs. If said wooper manages to somehow survive that blow, either through a held item or the power of BS, and uses, say, mud shot, then it’s still probably not going to do much. Type matchups mean nothing if the damage output is/isn’t high enough.
I have no idea why Fezandipiti can't learn Draining Kiss. It would be great on a Calm Mind set, would allow it to become a truly bulky stall mon alongside Roost and the ability to poison with Toxic Chain. Draining Kiss is even accessible via TM, and yet Fez *still* can't learn it. While we're at it, let's swap its base Attack and Special Attack.
To me personally they dont look like the regular Legendary style. Most legendaries have either an imposing, serious or mysterious look to them. These look more akin to what you would see Team Rocket using etc, or maybe a bit like an evolution to something youd catch early to midgame. Im still very split on whether i like the designs yet
i think that the actual meta is to harsh to the loyal three to get the spotlight but in the right conditions can be really good, maybe in future metagames
@@powerfulberry237 In VGC, it's a famously Frail pokemon. It's a great typing, it's just funny that a pokemon famous for being a Frail offensive mon walls out all 3 legendaries.
@@indiradevi8136 We all have our own metas. Your meta has Lando being bad because it has to compete in the ground type slot with Great Tusk, while in VGC, Great Tusk is bad because it has to compete the ground type slot with Lando.
I said this before, they need signature moves, things that compliment the toxic chains ability. All of them have the same first effect: chances of toxic chains activating becomes 50%. After that it has an effect for when the target is already toxic. For monkidori its a psychic type move that reduces the targets special defense by 2 stages then deals damage. For okidogi its a fighting type move that hits for damage then if the target is already toxic it increases the users physical attack and both his defenses by 1 stage each. For fezindipiti, it deals damage then if the opponent is female has a chance to infatuate and the infatuation is more likely to stop attacks, if the target is male, it has a high chance (50%) to raise fezendipities stats all by one stage each.
I think the reason why these guys suck is because LORE! Basically there a group of misfits who get legendary status and just use it to bully others and make themselves look good. There not the loyal three there the goof troop a bunch of cartoony villains pretending to be legendaries. I love them definitely my favorite legendary trio
I think that The Loyal Three can still be called that after the myth has been corrected. They're not loyal to Mossui, they're loyal to Dokutaro for granting their wishes and lending them it's power to make them more than what they were. That or they're loyal to it against their will. If you look carefully during the cutscene where they show the bottom half of Dokutaro, when it says the masks attracted more than just innocent curiosity, you'll notice that Dokutaro quickly appears first, apart from the other three. It probably heard stories about the infamous masks, then lent it's power to the loyal three, and tricked them into stealing the masks with the intentions of betraying them afterwards and leaving them for dead. Maybe the poison power tainted them and made them greedy, covetous, power-hungry (like Dokutaro) and easy to manipulate (like a puppet or a "zombie") and Dokutaro used them to do it's dirty work. Maybe the same will happen to Kieran.
I was surprised- w an ability like Toxic Chain, youd think thered be more distribution of multi- hitting moves, such as Arm Thrust, between the 3. Fezandipiti is the only one that learns multi-strike moves w it's better option, Tail Slap, and that's not even a great option. Double Kick and Dual Wingbeat are your 2nd options. Toxic Chain would've worked better w multi-hitting moves.
Okidogi, in my opinion, takes the slot of an iron hands on a team, and you bring it to win the 1v1s that annihilape and iron hands cannot. I like running it behind screens so it can make use of that leftovers and drain punch recovery
I feel like quick fixes for these Pokémon would be giving Munkidori prankster, Okidogi should get Intimidate and Feasandipity should get levitate along with follow me 5:11
I do think okidogi being a poison type gives it a legitimate niche in the format and makes it better than annihilape, while yes it doesn't get boosts off icy wind or charm those moves are not super common in the format with the acception of exactly iron bundle who is common but not on every team, there are other viable pokemon that can use icy wind like flutter mane and alolan ninetales but generally not all sets do and in flutter manes case the vast majority don't. This added on to the fact that poison fighting is just a significantly better defensive typing in this format compared to ghost fighting along with okidogi having generally better stats across the board except speed, definitely makes it more than a side grade to annihilape at least in this format, furthermore due to its better defensive profile okidogi has an easier time getting set up and requires less support to do so and although poison fighting is a worse stab combination than ghost fighting, pokemon which wall okidogis stab combo and actually beat it 1v1 are not super common landorus comes to mind but with 2 to 3 bulk ups, potential for screens or just teraing okidogi and the fact lando boosts it's attack I wouldn't call it a counter, Gholdengo fits that description much better and is really the only pokemon that makes okidogi want to run anything but its stab moves, however were a team to be built which could facilitate this weakness while providing screens support for okidogi to set up it can be genuinely viable despite not immediately standing out or being as splashable as the urshifus or iron hands
And this is why vgc needs a tiering system, all three of the loyal three don't have major issues in their tiers since all the competition is in a higher tier, smogon tiering is truly a gift from arcus.
The sleep ban without a Suspect Test while there are bigger issues has really ruined Smogon's credibility as of late. Then again I've always felt that since the full Baton Pass ban, I'm not saying that Baton Pass wasn't a problem, but at least let us Dry-Pass ffs.
Monkeydori is amazing on the ladder. Since it’s best of 1 and u don’t have a team sheet. Team sheets are the worst thing to happen to the game. I rather not know what to expect
why did they get rid of venom drench when they introduced these pokemon? its never really been a viable move but it could have had some fun uses with these guys
it might not be stellar in competitive, but fezandipiti is great when paired with bombirdier. not bc of type matching or anything, they just look like a mean lesbian couple and i love them for that
Maybe working their boss will give them SOMETHING to work with. Edit post-Pecharunt: Nope, his ability only works when he's the one poisoning the enemy.
Yeah… if they want to make “less good legendaries”, because fair enough they can’t all just be ridiculous Power scale pushers, they should make hyper specialized mons extremely good at a ridiculously narrow niche
They are good. It’s just flutter mane, chi you, iron hands etc are overpowered. The fit right along with the legendary dogs, birds, Regis, lake guardians.
@@luissuazo3684 well balanced stats???? That is op… their stats are dropped into main areas… speed and ONE attacking stat.. ..They have very few stats “wasted”. Some of the fastest hard hitting or bulky hard hitting Pokémon ever to exist. They literary have abilities that can give them a beast boost at the BEGINNING of the battle or they have abilities that lower defenses thus INCREASING their offensive output. Which aligns with their highest attacking stat…..Things like that. That is why Zacian and Calyrex Shadow rider won worlds and not any kyogure and groudon teams…literally overpowered stats…man get TF out here you are still a cognitive amateur in VGC…
@@luissuazo3684 and if you compare monkidori stats are similar to azelf.. and okidogi… is similar to tapu bulu… those stat distributions are really good but still pale in comparison to flutter mane or iron hands
I swear to god Once the indigo disk comes out, theese tree arebgonna get access to moves like darkest lariat, psychic noise and triple axel and become busted
If the "Loyal" Three were criminals, what crime would they be convicted of IRL? My opinion Okidogi: murder Munkidori: hacking/blackmail Fezandipiti: espionage
It's wild how the Lousy 3 can have upto 4 different types. Their original types + Dark + the type of Ogrepon mask they stole. For the Fez, it has a potential for 5th type cuz it's a bird, hence Flying.
I think it's supposed to theming>stat spreads competitive players can try and mess around with. I feel such stuff is also hindering Pecharunt despite it being banned.
Also 2 of the 3 loyal Pokemon are weak to Earthquake which can be a serious issue in doubles. Then the bird one is weak to rocks so all of them get beaten by Great Tusk and Landorus. Also, while not good getting poisoned is probably the best status to have inflicted on your Pokemon in doubles as: sleep, freeze, paralysis, & burn can be absurdly detrimental to your Pokemon in doubles. While some Pokemon do benefit from burn they're relatively few and most physical attackers hate getting burned. Also poison in doubles doesn't do a whole lot. Also, if u r using a support flying type in doubles most go with: Tornadus, Thunderus, or Murkrow all of which do the job better and have prankster
@@AndyLaVGC so all of them are weak to Earthquake that's really bad in doubles. Yes, some Pokemon do well in doubles in spite of a ground weakness but most of those have a way to counter that ground weakness like levitate or intimidate
@@christopherballero866You play singles right, because your comment doesn't make sense from a VGC perspective. Earthquake is rare in doubles nowadays. In the last 2 regionals, only 2 day 2 teams even ran Earthquake, and both were on Ursaluna. Realistically, Stomping Tantrum is the bigger problem. And while Lando is great, Great Tusk is NOWHERE to be found in VGC, at less than 2% usage. Also, one of the best pokemon in the format, Iron Hands, is weak to ground. Goldhengo is also weak to ground and it won recently. Also, nobody uses Stealth Rocks in VGC
4:56 Honestly id say annihilape is even better than Iron Hands. The things is an absolute monster in competitive and its signiture move tage fist only makes it stronger.
I do agree that they are underwhelming. In my opinion though they would've probably been up there in usage if the home update wasn't the mess that it was.
Okidogi isn't all that awful, honestly Toxic Chain with Poison Jab can help punch through a lot of walls, and it being slower than Annihilape can be a useful perk on Trick Room teams Granted, Iron Hands does a lot more damage up-front and has better HP to tank hits with, but Okidogi has better Sp. Defense meaning it's not *absolutely* stuck wearing Assault Vest like Hands And if it DOES use Assault Vest, it gets a lot more value out of it. It has higher Defense and Attack than Annihilape, so an AV will give it a lot of extra bulk on its lower defensive stat. Its Attacking movepool is already really diverse, so it can typically afford to lose things like Bulk Up if you so choose It's not perfect by any stretch but it has a niche. I can see it potentially being useful in the right circumstances.
They're called the lousy three for a reason. I also absolutely refuse to catch them simply because they're a bunch of assholes who made my homie Ogerpon sad.
While Okidogi definetely is below the Urshifus (who isn't?), it is neutral against both Flutter Mane's stabs, which gives is an edge in this department over the bears, Annihilape and Iron Hands and also if you build it to be a tanky fella, it has a good matchup against Iron Hands itself, in which in a 1 on 1 scenario Iron Hands will have to resort to the recoil damage of Wild Charge, as Okidogi resists Fighting moves, which means your Drain Punch'es recovery will let you eventually outsurvive Iron Hands. In short, doesn't need to Tera to survive Flutter Mane, can 1 shot it back with own stab (Gunk Shot, which 1 know there's the accuracy issue, but the possibility is there), has a good matchup against the better Fighting mon that doesn't have a stupid ass broken ability (Unseen Fist), and actually welcomes Intimidate users in. The real major issue Okidogi has is Landorus, which you will need to switch or use tera to survive.
I do think they could be better if their unique abilities were different, at least making them a little more special. I think cute charm could work well on fezandipidi in order to somewhat punish going for it. Of course, one could just have most pokemon be male, but it would at least be interesting when dealing with ogerpon. I think munkidori could have competitive, to skyrocket that special attack if someone accidentaly intimidated it or got a lucky debuff. Not super sure about okidogi, but I think either huge power or hustle would be fitting considering he is meant to be a muscular brute.
Wait. I'm a novice with all this competitive stuff, so maybe it sounds good to more experienced folks, but why on Earth would you be forced to disclose your Pokémon's held items in a tournament?! Wouldn't that ruin some of the tactics?
The official Pokémon championship "VGC" rules implies you have to disclose all your pokemon moves, items, tera types and ability to your opponent before the round and during the rounds... Only what's hidden is the IV/EV each pokemon have otherwise everything is disclosed.... There is no one reason, but they want the matches to be won by the most deserving, as it limits for example Cheesy tactics, and allows for the better player to win, Another reason is when you enter a tournament you have to play many matches like close to 15 matches... and you are not allowed to keep changing your pokemons, or pokemon moves, or tera or ability.. so your pokemons moves, tera might be leaked for your next opponent while you dont know your opponent moves/tera ergo giving your opponent the advantage ... This is 2 examples of why its a rule that your moves/tera/items/ability must be disclosed to your opponent.. hope that helps.
I think they’re more suited to 6v6 matches in singles where Toxic damage is far more valuable at breaking down teams, in 4v4 VGC a lot of games can end in a few turns so unreliable Toxic damage isn’t valuable Glimmora has a 100% chance to afflict poison and drops Toxic spikes 100% of the time vs physical moves The rest are outclassed even in the legendary field with their low BST at 555 instead of the 570 you expect from minor legendaries, though this is likely lore connected since they aren’t true legendaries but rather retainers of the Mythical Pecharunt blessed by its Toxic Chain
Maybe if one or all of them could make some kind of poison terrain to boost poison moves and poisons other pokemon then you could do some strat with Hex or Facade in doubles. We'll just have to see if they buff them.
I say fezandipiti isn’t half bad, the typing is a very solid matchup to flutter mane and can do well offensively and supportively but you’re right when you say tornadus is better.
The loyal three are weaker than most legends so that dosent help also they don’t have any signature moves so they are stuck with more underwhelming moves also bird has some bad stat spreads
thye need to buff weak pkmn like they did with arbok during alola region they boosted his stat a little but still cool they can do it again with this pokemon and others as well
Feel like Raging Bolt’s not gonna be much better. While I’m sure it’ll swap around Raikou’s stats to be a slower bulk electric/dragon type, Thunderclap just being a counter to priority moves may only do it so much. Cuz I mean, that’s only as good a move as the opponent actually using a priority move, right? Most ice, fairy, and ground moves it’ll be targeted by don’t have priority, so I feel it’s just gonna be an answer to several of the returning Fake Out users like Incineroar and nothing else. Shame too, I’ve really grown to like it’s design just cuz of how out there it is, but I like Walking Wake’s design a tad more.
I mean, there is a legend around these 3. They’re TECHNICALLY legendary. But at the same time, they’re also just 3 subpar Pokémon that were given steroids by an angry peach child
All 3 needed better hidden abilities and a unique more just to feel like legendarys. Maybe for the monkey a base 90 power Phychic move that doubles in power if the target is poisoned and it has a 30% chance to badly poison the target. Like a Phychic type version of Venoshock with a change to poison on top and combining with the toxic chain for a high chance to poison. for the ability how about a ability that plays into the lore of being smart a ability that of the same move is used in a row by the opponent then that move has a 50% chance to miss. It can be over come easy enough but is dangerous for pokemon with choice items to be against. For the bird a base 90 fairy type move that heals the user if the target is poisoned and a 30% chance to badly poison the target. A fairy type giga drain with a chance to badly poison on top. For a ability how about one that plays into the vanity in lore by increasing 1 random stat by 2 for every mon the user defeats. Like moxie but abit better with the random stat for balance. For the dog how about a base 90 fighting move that lowers both Defense stats by 1 if the target is poisoned and a 30%chance to badly poison them. For a ability either just straight up defiant or for something new to match the others a ability that if 1 stat is lowered all stats increase instead by 1 but the user can't be switched out. A powerful ability but allows can force it into a unfavourable position. Imagine the dog a poison fighting type gets growled and all its stats go up then the opponent switch out to Gengar that resists the poison stab and is immune to the fighting stab.
Generation 9 has been the region that, in my opinions, has botched the term “legendary Pokémon” the most as hardly any of these “legends” deserve that title for me. Koraidon and Miraidon are not legendary because, not only is there more than one of each, they don’t really affect the lore of Paldea and they don’t have the aura of one. The Paradox forms don’t count as legendary to me unlike the incredible Ultra Beasts. The Loyal Three are also criminals that got treated as “heroes”, similarly to our narcissistic ex-president, and are in no way legends as they were technically “killed” by Ogerpon until now (but I don’t buy that.) I really don’t like Gen. 9 and I don’t even play competitive Pokémon
Nah, "Legendary" was ruined all the way back in Gen 4, when they started handing out the title to every random Pokemon they saw. Don't even get me started on "mythicals". Give Gens 8 and 9 credit, they calmed down with them at least.
Okidogi isn’t that bad, I got a type tank with assault vest, put everything into defenses and health, knock off, drain punch, ice punch and gunk shot, regardless which move I use, the opponent usually has something wrong with them by the end of it
Okidogi and Munkydori are mostly fine but hidden abilities don't improve their solid base stats. Why Munkidori got Frisk is beyond me. Prankster would have been perfect and Guard Dog is perfectly fine ability but Defiant is definitely better. Meanwhile Fezandipiti is all around bad. Sure it can spread Toxic around but it doesn't have the insane bulk to stick around even with Roost on top of its laughably low offensive stats. It also technically doesn't have a 2nd ability since Technician doesn't help it deal that much more damage when it's designed to be a support mon. I'm pretty sure GameFreak overbalanced these three due to how strong they made some of the Paradox mons so the Loyal Three just fall very short in the insane power creep they found themselves in.
