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@@Jose-se9pu Arcades weren't dead in the 90s. So yeah, it was much cheaper when you could play fighting games in your local arcade rather than needing to buy an entire console to play them 😆
For anyone wondering how much that would be today, a correction; the NeoGeo actually released with a price of $649.99 in 1990, which today would be $1294.95. You could literally buy a XSX and a PS5, new consoles that came out literally this week with cutting edge tech, and still would be less than the NeoGeo. You could build a pretty decent pc for the cost. Hell, with tax itd be $1385.60
@@Jose-se9pu The NeoGeo was a massive outlier as it was sold as a luxury console - its specs were leagues above everything else and the games were arcade perfect ports, and it lost miserably to the SNES and Genesis in sales. Why? Because no one was gonna pay an arm and a leg for arcade quality hardware when the arcades were still kicking (Genesis and SNES sold for $189-199). Whether $650 was worth way more in the 90s is besides the point. The point is the average Joe didn't HAVE to shell out a fortune for a NeoGeo when you could go to the arcade and play much of the same games locally for 25-50 cents a game. Nobody was buying a whole new fighting game everytime a new version came out or a season pass - these are a consequence of arcades being largely dead, and even in Asia they're on life support.
@@SageSimulant I will be honest I have 6 I play it a lot but it’s down hill from 3 I the type of person I need unlockables in my games and they push DLC so much it’s unattractive
@@SageSimulant I've been a huge fan of the series since the DOA2HC, the 'xbox era' of DOA is definitely its peak. DoA2U, DOA3, and 4. Koei has gotten really greedy lately and has plagued the series with DLC, and there's been identity crisis on the development side because of a desire to have the game be esportsy and a potential event at EVO, and EVO's endless disdain for the series for daring to be sexy. If Koei would let them actually have decent amount of modes and unlockables without locking everything behind absurd DLC, and if Shimbori would stop putting so much effort into trying to appease the EVO gods, the series could really shine again
@@smashmaster521 Yoshi's dash grab doesn't have an active hitbox on the same z axis the characters fight on. For example, Yoshi can't dash grab Marth because Yoshi moves his head to his right of Marth in a space Marth cannot occupy.
Curious how a dash grab automatically means it's a 3d fighter. There are 2.5d fighters as well and I think Smash is more in that category. Even though the game is made in 3d it is still presented as a 2d fighter. The way I see it, if you can't sidestep, it's not 3d.
@@Maggot39967 As I mentioned before, there is a z axis in Melee that characters and moves can occupy. Yoshi's dash grab is an example of this as it always misses against characters with thin 3D models like Marth.
For me it’s the first Tekken Tag on PS2 hands down no question. Personally it was the reason why I wanted a PS2 so bad. I spent countless hours playing it at the arcade and was bummed when it wasn’t coming out on the PS1 (obviously the RAM couldn’t handle loading 4 movesets) As a kid MK Trilogy on the N64 was probably the most I’ve ever anticipated a game because I thought it was going to be arcade quality while bringing all the missing characters back as well as adding new ones. The sound was ass but the game itself was still fun as hell. Melee on the GameCube was incredible, an absolute classic.
@@blackmanwhitesuit honestly I don’t understand the hate Tag 2 gets. It’s my favorite in the series. I enjoy it far more than Tekken 7 but that’s because I prefer 2v2.
SoulCalibur, DOA3, and Melee were all mind-blowing showcases for their consoles. Even unlocking Mewtwo overnight was a showcase for my Gamecube that the fans were working!
Fighting Game wise, Dreamcast was the greatest console ever (I agree with MAx, pulling the Neo Geo card is kinda cheap lol). No only it got Soul Calibur, but also other great gems like Power Stone, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK, Project Justice, Guilty Gear X...
@@ahok1937 And the PS2 versions are considered inferior (and in some cases are objectively inferior), outside of fighting games even ports like Skies of Arcadia Legends and Sonic Collection DX are either worse or at the bare minimum similar enough.
Soul Calibur and Melee no contest. I think Soul Calibur was the most fully realized and technically impressive fighting game of its time, while Melee is the most influential and unique fighting game ever made. I think it all comes down to preference with these two, absolutely stellar games!
Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast all day every day. It went beyond everything at the time and it still plays like a dream to this day. Game is as close to perfect as you can get.
You got it. The game was amazing and the best dark stalkers game because it was basically all of them in one package. I also liked the tower mode, it had a world tour mode feel in Street fighter alpha 3.
Man, I miss Dead or alive 3 so much. I remember getting a Xbox for christmas present and my first game was DOA3. It is not my favourite fighting game of all time... but it is sure the game I spent most time playing of all fighting games every existed.
Ahhh sf4 for the 3ds is honestly underrated, sure the mechanics were a little cheesy of just tapping on a screen for a command input but it was sure as hell fun taking it on the go
As a filthy casual, I'm glad SSFIV 3D Edition mapped command inputs to the bottom screen. It's my favorite SF because of how accessible it is as a result.
Gotta be Super Smash Bros. Melee for me. It was such a massive improvement over the first game and just blew my mind at the time. To this day it remains one of my top 10 favorite video games.
@@reisjames1 we can hem and haw about which madden improved more over its predecessor better but... can we just agree that Madden is the benchmark for video game iteration?
MK Armageddon was my first intro into MK and I remember when MK9 released and it finally realized my true love for fighting games and I remember the whole hype around it
Dreamcast and Powerstone. 9/9/99. I remember that distinctly. My mom bought it for me from Sears. She also got me Sonic Adventure. Jesus I was a spoiled brat.
Although not launch games, here are reasonably early release games that impressed me the most for their time. Saturn - Fighters Megamix Playstation - Street Fighter Alpha 3 PS2 - Street Fighter EX3; Tekken Tag Tournament 2; Soul Calibur 3
Spot on. Fighters megamix is still one of my favorite 3d fighting game along with Soulcalibur 2 and now tekken 7. Street fighter alpha 3 is a beast of a game and EX3 is underrated. Soul calibur 3 is almost as good as soul calibur 2 and tekken tag tournament 2 was the best tekken game until 7 came out
Great breakdown and perspective of all the games. It was a great time growing up in the 90s and 2000s when fighting games started to get more and more people’s attention and what they can do. Souls and Smash still have a big impact with me today.
I choose Super Smash Bros in general. Especially Melee. It’s considered the best crossover fighting game in general because of its massive inclusive of characters from popular franchises😊👊🏾🌏
I really appreciate how Max acknowledges his personal bias, and recognizes the reality. I love the Soulcalibur series myself, but the impact of smash (especially as we see it today) is a monumental thing. I do want to add one thing. I think part of this is also how later entries in each respective series affected the former. For instance, while Soulcalibur is INCREDIBLY well regarded, I feel that SCII is an even better game, that for the most part overtakes the former. Just about everything that was great in SC, SCII does even better, and also because of the exclusive characters that came with each version, cemented the game in the hearts and minds of the community (FGC and beyond). After that there a lot of ups and down. SCIII, while well liked (even beloved by many) was a PS2 exclusive, so Nintendo and Xbox players lost touch that generation, and SCIII sadly has a myriad of technical flaws. SCIV had its fair share of critics as well. Hell, SC V nearly killed the franchise. I am so glad that SCVI has really brought the franchise back to forefront of the FGC. Now looking at Melee, when it came out, BOOM! Crazy hype! People love it, and the game becomes immensely popular, regarded by many as one of if not the best game on the Gamecube. Now the sequel, BRAWL is on the horizon. It has more characters, new stages, and is one the Wii, so in player base will be HUGE. Then it comes out, and the community is not happy. It is much slower, has tripping, and the online (something other systems have kinda figured out at this point) is just . . . the worst. I think it is safe to assume, brawl is probably the least talked about game in the series, at least fondly. Then Smash Bros (4) comes out, and the game IS actually very competent, has an even bigger roster, and supports numerous controllers so EVERYONE can get in on it, but there's one big problem, its on the WIIU. Yes it came out on the 3ds too, but let's be real, the console version was the big deal, and that console struggled from day 1. Finally Smash Ultimate comes out, and I feel like that was the game that finally took the mantel as best smash game. So in short, Soulcalibur, good game, but sequel comes out and steals the show. 4 more entries come out, and the most recent is the most well received since 2. Melee comes out, good game, but sequel comes out and community rejects it. Next entry comes out and struggles because of the system it releases on, so Melee is more or less uncontested "Best game" in series til Ultimate comes out. That's roughly 17 years of being the most well regarded, as Soulcalibur to Soulcalibur 2 was only roughly 4. This is not to take away from ANY of the games in either respective series (I really like Smash Bros in all its iterations, and LOVE Soulcalibur and its later entries), I just think that the sequels had a big impact on how these games are viewed in the grand legacy. If SCII was a dud, who knows where the franchise would be, and SC would probably even more mythic today. If Brawl was embraced by the community Melee might not be the juggernaut it became.
I think another factor to consider is whether other games take notes from the impact that the game laid out. It is bit unfair to compare the best selling GameCube game to other Smash games at times, but I didn't see the same kind of ripple as a casual observer of SoulCal. Cases of more weapon fighter alternatives from other companies, other games from Namco taking influence and fan game projects. Melee has led to popular mods (the one for Ultimate isn't publically downloadable but search Project NX) to bring all sequels in line. It has been kept alive by the fanbase with modded training tools and Rollback Netcode and the GameCube (and other 6th gen platforms) were sprinkled with platform fighting alternatives besides the last decade having a healthy line up which doesn't need to depend on multitaps. Again, I'm only a casual observer of SC but I only see similar things for Street Fighter maybe but I'm more into that I guess. Traditional 3D fighters are a blind spot for me.
Tekken Tag Tournament was definitely one of the first dope fighting games on the PS2. I remember picking it up @ KB Toys back when that company was still active.
DOA 2 for the Dreamcast is a underrated gem. The best looking game on there and it was one of the first fighting game to have stage transitions on a 3D field
Some of the most fun I've ever had playing video games is in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Ultimate is a good game for sure, but the crazy and cool stuff you can pull off in Melee to just style and flex on your friends makes it just such a blast to play. The space animals, Captain Falcon, Marth, Samus, Ganondorf, Luigi, there are just so many characters in that game that can be played in such incredibly flashy ways, and everyone finds their own style with their favorite characters. 10/10, my favorite fighting game easily.
So happy to see Max talk about Melee's influence on the FGC. Truly birthed some of the most passionate fans of a game ever, and for good reason. Soul Caliber is damn good tho. But MELEE IS TOO SICK
The fond memory I have of Toshinden (despite still being able to recite the intro commentary) was recording Eiji's theme on to tape and wearing that tape out in my Walkman. It's still a damned good track today. Man, Soulcalibur. I was already a huge fan of Soul Blade (Soul Edge) on PS1. When SC came around it changed everything. I was the only one of my friend group that had a Dreamcast and the game was barely ever out of the drive. It was mind boggling at the time to have a console game that looked that good. Where I live in the UK too there were zero arcades close by so I couldn't even experience arcade games.
DOA gave me flashbacks to perfecting my little brother with bayman's knee that frame traps into itself and spending 7 days in a row trying to do a 360 motion to do hayabusa drop.
People bought Gamecubes to play Melee. Dreamcast had a lot more going for it at launch, so people might have bought, say, Sonic Adventure instead, but at launch, you bought a Gamecube because it was the game that had Smash Melee on it. Melee remained the lone system seller for a while.
I feel so sad with nostalgia now Especially with all these comments I feel a strong connection with all of you now because we were there at different places and times Playing the same games in different lifes And though their time has passed We retained a strong love for these games That In our hearts will forever last
Watching Max talk about Tekken Tag 1 saying how it was a marvel of a launch title was great to see. I'm glad my nostalgic memories of Tekken Tag are right in saying that it was a amazing fighting game. Even I played it mostly alone there was soo much content in that game. Score attack, Time trial, Tag Mode, freaking Bowling and all those characters. I made an honest attempt at unlocking every character ending, even the alternate costume character endings too. Even though I don't play Tekken much anymore due to being bad at it I still hold those memories close and check out every update to Tekken 7. I'm still so fond of the Tekken world and it's characters.
I still maintain that Soul Blade/Edge on PS1 and Soul Calibur on Dreamcast were the pinnacle of the series. The best characters, best music (3 music modes for Soul Blade!), the most compelling individual stories, oodles of secrets and unlockable content, and with everything still feeling fresh. I enjoyed SCII for my GameCube and being able to play as Link, but not being able to play as Hwang and Seung Mina out of the gate was a big disappointment and the plot was starting to get cheesy.
Smash Melee is up there for the greatest video game of all time. Top 50. The best part is that it was kind of a mistake. It was rushed. There's so many unintended mechanics. Yet through the glitches and bugs we get the coolest techniques used by pro players. L cancelling, wave dashing etc. I often think to myself "what is the best game of all time? And what's the best game of each genre of games of all time?" Very fun question to try and answer and can spark interesting conversations amongst friends.
"Unfortunately, Playstation 3 didn't have any fighting games at launch." *Unfortunately, Playstation 3 didn't have any games at launch. Fixed that for you
@@richman6974 If I remember correctly, it was because the PS3 was really hard to develop games for due to the "Cell" processor which made games look great but the developers had no idea how to use it.
Dreamcast with Soul Calibur hands down.. loads of content, great visuals and sound..absolutely iconic, and the mechanics were next level at the time.. ~pso lobby music 🎶 👌
As a person who was all about Tekken in 3D fighting games, Soul Calibur 2 really surprised me with how much fun it was! The universal parry mechanic really had me and my friends on our toes all the time.
I remember Soul Calibur being one of the reasons I wanted a Dreamcast, though I never got one. Tekken Tag 1 started me on my path to being a Tekken guy, even though I didn't get to play it that much and I was complete garbage at all fighting games. Tag 1 did start off an interesting era for Tekken as there were four games during that generation with Tag 1, T4, T5, and T5:DR. I detest Melee now, but I played *so much* of it when I was younger and thought I was good at it. Then I got to college and realized I was utter trash.
Soul Calibur was one of the reasons my brothers and I rented a Dreamcast back in the day. Was the only game we played more than Sonic and whatever else we rented. And I'll always remember getting my GameCube with Melee and playing that religiously with my friends in high school and college. So yeah, Soul Calibur and Melee get my votes
Whoever told you that it was three days difference between the Gamecube launch and Melee's release was conflating the North American date for the system and the Japanese date for the game. It wasn't three days difference, it was almost a month. As an aside, it was more like two months' difference between the Japanese release of the system and the Japanese release of the game.
KI was SUPER influential in terms of business model though. They were super early on the season pass bandwagon which like every fighting game has adopted now.
I was very confused about this discussion until I realized that Max was talking about US release. In Japan, all the Dreamcast had was Virtua Fighter 3TB. (The meh port). One of our video game rental stores (You rent out the console instore and play games per hour) on release Toshinden might have looked rough, but 3D looked SO REALISTIC at the time! They are breathing when they are down! OMG! =P In a more serious note, I feel like the Dreamcast got their best games one year after the Japanese release because it has all the fighting games that I loved. And its mostly made by Capcom.
Soul Caliber on Dreamcast for sure. I was a senior in high school and that game brought so many non gamer's attention in and I have only seen that with the Wii since. I remember my friend's mom just destroying people with spam and it was great. Amazing game.
Shiiiiiit doa on dreamcast blew me away it was unseen and unheard of for a game to fight so smooth. People don't give it the proper respect it deserves
I vividly remember hooking up my Dreamcast to my computer monitor with a VGA adapter back in December 1999 and being completely blown away by Soul Calibur. All my friends couldn't believe it either. It was definitely the end of the arcade. On Psone you got arcade perfect versions of Street Fighter Alpha but on Dreamcast you finally had a game that was better than the arcade. All the fighting game aficionados that I was friends with were buying the Dreamcast and we would just play against each other at each other houses for hours on end. The short lived Dreamcast era was the golden age of fighting games imo
I was not a big fan of fighting games. I had played a little bit of Tekken/Tekken 2 at other people's houses, and it was fun, but when I bought DoA 3 on the Xbox I was impressed. The fighting was so smooth, and I loved the counter mechanic.
It has to be Soulcaliber or Super Smash Bros. Melee, one changed the industry and the other stays alive over a decade and a half later while it's own company tries (and fails) to kill it and it's playerbase
You're talking about the Neo Geo Pocket in 1999, not the Neo Geo AES in 1990, with Fatal Fury: First Contact, King Of Fighters R2, and Samurai Shodown! 2. Probably someone else way down the comments points this out too, but it stands to be re-said. The first Fatal Fury released at the end of '91, the AES didn't even have any launch-period fighting games.
Soul Calibur on Dreamcast was my first thought after reading the title. The fluid animating katas for each character was the selling point for me. Maxi's nunchaku kata was the most impressive in my opinion. There was no fighting game more fluidly animated before that.
I have to give it to Soul Calibur. It was a huge luxury back then just to get an arcade perfect port on console. To have one that was absolutely superior to the arcade version in every way with zero compromises was unbelievable. It made it clear that Arcades were no longer the be all, end all.
Wish they would make a Capcom vs SNK sequel. The last one with Ultimate Rugal and Shin Akuma was so dope. The roster was on par with Marvel vs Capcom 2.
I think melee gets the edge (pun not intended) because there are more people playing it right now than soul calibur, the fact that such an old game still lives on is pretty impressive
Forgot Power Stone, Mortal Kombat Gold and if you want to count it, Ready 2 Rumble Boxing came out at launch for the Dreamcast along with Soul Cali on the Dreamcast.
Soul Calibur for the Dreamcast, Tekken Tag for the PS2, and Super Smath Bros. Melee for the Gamecube has some the best fighting games launch with the consoles.
I knew early in the livestream that Melee should be counted for this discussion. It was the one game I can think back to where I was so hyped and was preparing for next-gen at the time. It really did stood the test of time many years later.
How true you are Max. I fondly remember seeing VF3 for the first time at Putt-Putt Golf in Newport News and my eyes dropped. But when I saw what Soul Calibur and DOA looked like on Dreamcast, I knew Arcades were done. Shout out to Arcades of the past in Hatcher Square, Lynnhaven and Coliseum Mall. Also shout out to Flipper Mc'Coys, Family Fun Center/Boomer's and Nickel City. They all have given my children and I some great times and fun in the past. 🎮🕹️🎮
I agree. Soul Calibur's DC release is definitely around the time when arcades were antiquated. I remember back in the day playing at arcades at roller rinks. Tekken Tag Tournament and Street Fighter EX3 being launch fighting games for PS2 were great. I wish we had a Street Fighter EX collection. Tekken Tag Tournament on the PS2 definitely added a ton of improvements to the PS2 version. Oh right~ Itagaki...What happened to that guy? Super Smash Bro Melee on GameCube definitely was a huge influence in the FGC. I never had the GameCube but I did play it every now and then. Wow. Did Killer Instinct on X1 really launch with 6 characters? Let's hope we get more fighting games on PS5.
The top two are easily Melee and Calibur. Both games graphically blew my fucking mind at launch and both games were filled to the BRIM with content and an absolute blast to play. Personally speaking though I would have to put Melee ahead, if only slightly, just because it literally shaped my standards for video games after I experienced it lol. But both games are absolutely titans and outstanding. Plus Calibur had the create your intro mode...10/10!
I'm biased because I played a lot of Melee, but I remember seeing footage of Soul Calibur and thinking to myself, "this is the future of gaming". My mind was blown
Although Soul Calibre was an improvement on the Arcade in every way, I don’t think it was a major factor in killing the arcade scene. Tekken, Tekken 2 and soul Edge were already providing arcade quality conversions with extra content in the home. The Sega Saturn was receiving top quality 2d fighting game conversions as well.
