What Would Stoner Do? (WWSD) Rethinking the AR15 in 2017 - Introduction 

Sometimes, late at night, when no one else is around, I tap the forward assist.

Love the free range, locally sourced, organic microphone stand.

Watching this in late April 2020, after watching a bunch of later WWSD videos, really shows how far the project has come, while still being true to the original concept. You guys really have come along way with this project, im really impressed.

17:17 - 17:22 Now I'm just picturing a battlefield scenario where some troops are hunkered down in some forsaken urban wasteland. A stray bullet flies by and hits one of the soldiers' optics. He does a bewildered double take, exchanges a few glances with his buddies, pops off the damaged optic and throws it off to the side, before promptly producing a fresh one from his pouch to replace it with; all without uttering a word.

Function over form. And when a machine is designed to work properly, it is beautiful in and of itself. There is beauty in function.

I like the distinction Karl makes between left-handed and "normal" :)

I want one. Seriously, this may be how I start my first AR build when my budget allows. For now I'm just budgeting $1 per month to keep the great content coming.

Ian goes from England to Arizona in just a few hours ;) Just realized why there was a tree branch in between you guys is for mounting the mic. Very compelling builds

"Mine has a retched eticle." Caught that, lol.

DMR Rifle - designated marksmen rifle rifle

He'd likely had made it from carbon fiber. After all, he was going for an incredibly lightweight but strong material that was very modern. Carbon fiber today, is what aluminum was in the 1950's.

Maybe in a decade we could have a "What would Kalashnikov do?" series for the 80th anniversary of the AK's adoption.

You guys led me to the GWACS lower. Best purchase I ever made. Forgotten Weapons led me to The Great War channel. Thank you.

What would Stoner do today - a great idea for a video series. Looking forward to it! One of you needs to be wearing a bow tie, though. :)

Love the Idea would add a few things for the "basic" infantrymen 1. PEQ 16 or other lighter variants (totally understandable not to have because of cost) 2. A damn good sling (vickers sling we love it in the Corps.) The capabilities of the PEQ gives to the infantrymen to fight at night can not be understated. Also the RCO is an amazing optic interested to see if you have found anything as good that's lightweight. Love this idea and wish it the Best!

The idea of a solar-powered optic is such a simple, obvious thing that I'm kicking myself for not coming up with it myself. What are the dimensions of the actual solar panel, and where is it located? I imagine you'd get away with something very small and the obvious place is on top, but you find solar panels in surprising places sometimes.

Looking forward for more AR stuff. Thanks for a video! Only two points to mention: 1. Iron sights. Of course, bullet hit the scope, is way too rare, but you can drop rifle or accidently bump it against something. Small folding irons would help and not so much additional weight. 2. If you're talking about 'general issue' infantry rifle, adjustable buttstock would be a benefit. Different size soldiers, vests, gear, personal prefernces... Anyway, excellent video, keep up a good work!

PA makes some of my favorite budget optics and the ACSS is hands-down the best BDC reticle on the market today, but the 2.5x Prism was a big let down for me. The reticle goes off the path of the standard ACSS where the holds are marked with a single dot as opposed to the standard solid vertical line with horizontal lines for holds. The dots on the 2.5x are VERY tough to see against almost all terrain and targets. The 3x, which has the standard ACSS style reticle is the one to go with here assuming you would like to stick with a low power optic in this price range. Great optic for the price and very hard to beat.

It's shameful how much I'm geeking out over this series.

On the bolt catch issue, what I could immediately think of was a rod that would be impinged by the follower, a spring for said rod, a T handle to allow the rod to be manipulated, and a roll pin or other fastener to hold the T handle to the rod. There would be a hole drilled vertically from the top of the lower to the trigger guard area (which would inevitably intersect the magazine catch hole, largest issue btw). An alternative that I just thought of would be incorporating the mag catch as part of the assembly (as a fulcrum). The user would push forward to lock the bolt. The latch would be inside the trigger guard but again shaped like an inverted T with the arms pointed out to either side.

The real reason for iron sights to back up the optics in my opinion is not the ever so slight chance that the optic gets hit by a bullet but the extremely much more common scenario when the gun gets dropped and the optic is either broken or shifted as to make it useless. No amount of modern manufacturing can guarantee that dropping the gun will never cause problems and it would be foolish to assume that it would never happen in combat when issuing weapons. C-Mon guys.

Post MORE! Im planning to build my first AR off of your opinions, and Im so anxious to see the mentality and rationality behind these builds.

Karl and Ian have balls of steel to suggest BUIS aren't needed in a public RU-vid video. You guys are my favorite internet gun shit stirrers. Have you considered renaming "InRangeTV" to "SacredCowSlaughterhouse" ?

Having used just about every configuration of AR over four decades...I still go back to the SP1....or M16A1...the M4 ain't bad.

Regards change of projectile. The NZ army is making a shift from 62 gr to 77 gr with the acquisition of our new LMT M4's. The idea being a extension from the 300m battle to the 600m after experienced gained in Afghanistan where we were caught abit short. There was extensive trialing (for us anyway) done to validate this shift but the only arguments against or cons to be overcome was the availability of ranges out to 600m for weapons qualification and training and ammunition cost. Otherwise it was very positive in making the shift. Or so I have been told. Thanks for this episode (and others), love how you get into the specifics and engineering behind it all. Kind regards Shane

This is among the most historically important videos on RU-vid, IMHO.

AR15 MythBusters? Sounds like an interesting series.

The fact that the military is still using the basic AR design, albeit modified/updated, from six decades back is amazing! I'm glad you guys decided to roll with a fixed power optics, advantage being once you learn your distances, you simply sight and shoot. Great video, can't wait to see the upcoming series!

If I was limited to just one channel on RU-vid your channel would be the one I would choose (forgotten weapons would be my second choice). Absolutely fantastic, interesting and inspirational work. Thank you!

This is the only channel to get me excited about an AR video (series).

I’m trying to gather some further-on research about coatings and treatments, without any biases - only based on facts/trial testing. The ones I’m currently most interested in are, coatings: Cerakote Elite and Black Nickel; and treatments: QPQ (Blacknitride+ aka [plainly] Black Nitride) and RF85 (most commonly associated with Anderson Manufacturing). From what I’ve gathered, all aforementioned have qualities of lubricity at varying levels and all have claimed lube-less functionality. I’m tending to gravitate more towards the said treatments because: one, it isn’t a coating/plating (known for flaking and/or chipping) and, two, it doesn’t change the dimensions of the original design by adding an additional thickness to any surface. However, the Cerakote Elite coating boasts a highly durable and lubricious ceramic coating but at a very minuscule addition to the surface’s overall thickness. Also, very recently, I’ve learned about Black Nickel as being QPQ treatment but with a NiB coating (please correct my knowledge at any point). I don’t know much about Black Nickel, but of the whole list, this option I’m least interested with. As for the treatments previously mentioned, I’m impressed thus far with RF85 but it is almost exclusive to Anderson. If I go straight to the company that provides the RF85 treatment to Anderson (for ferrous and non-ferrous metals), they require large batches of items for treatment at a minimum of “$5,000.” Anderson’s RF85 offerings claim to be “the world’s only lube-less rifle” with high benchmark test results for durability and reliability. I feel Anderson has a decent but limited RF85 lineup though. Lastly, QPQ - as like RF85 - is a treatment that goes through the whole thickness of the metal and not just at the surface. So if there is wear past the surface, the lubricious qualities are continuous throughout the entire thickness of the metal. Whereas, the said coatings would stop their lubricious qualities at the surface. I write all of this because I’d like to create an AR build where I can - if need be - run the rifle completely dry for a prolonged period of time but still count on it being nearly 100% reliable. Additionally, the coatings and treatments on my research list also claim to have qualities of cleaning with ease. I might catch some flack like, “just properly lube and clean your rifle.” I agree, knowing proper cleaning/lubing procedures and familiarizing with the mechanics of the rifle will always be beneficial to the owner. However, I’m on the hunt for the best possible upgrades - fitting my needs - available on the market. Thank you for reading this long winded message and for any insight that anyone can provide!

You're talking about your scope getting hit by a bullet, but what about just dropping the gun on it? Are you 100% confident that it can survive such a fall and are you willing to bet your life on it? Back-up irons are literally about 100 grams and would provide a fail-safe in a possible situation.

I'm excited for this project! The Falkor Dracos and the Proof research carbon fiber barrels both seem like they're the future imo. Maybe you will talk about that more in the deep dive for the barrel.

"Retched Eticle" -Ian 2017

You guys are going to make me spend money.

I've been saving up for the Faxon Barrel like the one on your door kicker. This video series has me really excited. Thanks!!!

Coming back and watching this in 2022 is really cool. Very very glad Karl and Ian have inquisitive minds and glad that this came into fruition. I have a CDR and it is, by far, my favorite rifle in regards to just general use and whatnot. It's hard to NOT be impressed with it all

I'm glad I haven't bought an AR yet. Can't wait to see what you have come up with so I can start with the one that suit me best. My chronologic rifle collection is up to WWII so please don't wait to long to get the content out ;)

I came back to re-watch this, and it is pretty interesting to see how this project evolved and is now even being reignited to produce WWSD 2020. It's incredible to see especially how Ian's rifle evolved, as it certainly had the most obvious changes, but even to see how Karl's evolved as well, just with less obvious appearance differences. It certainly speaks to the versatility of the AR15 platform. Now with WWSD 2020, I hope to finally build my own WWSD rifle.

you two have good chemistry and are pretty articulate at explaining your thoughts. good work

"..so we did it ourselves." Sometimes that's the best and only way.

Really looking forward to seeing the deep dives. Keep up the good work, guys!

I'm not an ar guy, I'll admit I like steel and wood guns. after watching your channel for awhile now, when money allows, up be looking at putting together one. I have a feeling it will have close to yours. through all the videos, your ideas have been very close to many of my own. i look forward to much more. keep up the good work.

The fwd assist on my military issued rifle was used quite a bit. Bent, old ammo needs help. So... ive used it a lot. Also had dozens of malfunctions probably ammo induced. So, yeah. Love to see how your rifles with real ammo actually works

it would be nice if that lower had a streamlined or collapsable stock option

the POF USA gen III does have a bolt release inside the trigger guard if you were looking for a lower with that function.

I would rather carry the extremely small weight of BUIS than not. What if you were so unlucky as to smash your optic in a combat situation? A bullet hitting your optic is not the only way it can get fucked. The chance may be small, but the result could be catastrophic.

wretched etticle. love it. Ian and his big words.

I'm excited for this series of videos! I just built an SBR with a faxon barrel and love it! Thanks for introducing the company to me. That little 10.5" barrel is awesome and more accurate than I am (sub 1" group at 50yrds with a 2 moa red dot optic)!!! Keep up the awesome content! I'm looking at my finances now to become a patrion and I also just want you to know that I support not only your content but your decision to solely rely on us for your funding. You guys are by far my favorite gun channel.

really appreciate this. want to build my own AR but in an over saturated market its hard to know where to start. for someone whose just been around hunting rifles for 20+ years and looking for new experience, this is exciting to see.

OMG I can't wait. I am so excited for this series!

What should the modern version of the AR-15 have? Ambidextrous design from ground up, less parts with better fit and fitting mechanisms so that you don't need as much pins that could get lost or get loose and so that you don't need staking to secure some parts. A thin and light folding stock, no more buffer and buffer tube. A lightweight piston system, either short stroke for reliability or long stroke for improoved weight. Of course in a free floating design for accuracy. A shorter bolt carrier because no more buffer tube, appropriate recoil springs for the shorter/smaller space. A more convenient charging handle, either in a SCAR/ACR position on the side or forward like the Adcor A556 Elite or maybe a ambidextrous on-top design like the G36. Externals and internals should be modular and capable to accept third party upgrades easily. Different buttstock and pistol grip designs, competition triggers, easy to change yet extremely tight fitting barrels, different handguards,...

Fixed stock, interesting choice. I want to make a magnesium lower build because it's new and different. Magnesium lower Short pencil barrel CF hand guard. 👍

I really like the logic behind this.

A guy who claimed to be a marine for 20 years and an instructor for 15 years told me he never once NEEDED the forward assist. the only time he used it was when riding the charging handle forward so he could then demonstrate how the forward assist could work if ever needed.

I've been waiting for this video series since you guys hinted at it!

I am looking forward to this WWSD 2017 series.

Great video, although I would design the rifles a bit differently. I would use a standard barrel (not pencil profile), a 4x scope for the DMR (I think ACOGs do okay at close range but Ian did have a good point about the CQB drawbacks of a 4x optic), BUIS for the infantry rifle, and adjustable stocks. I look forward to seeing these innovative designs in action!

Those Titan bipods are the bee's knees. Saw one on Demolition Ranch a while back.

Karl, one other way you can shave a couple of ounces is to go with the m lok version of the vertical grip. it's smaller and lighter and does not require the rail piece.

I love this series! There are thousands of AR "manufacturers" who sell roughly the same stuff. Why not push the boundaries a bit and see where we go with the platform.

Looking forward to the series, this is good timing. I have many AR builds that are just a bunch of parts I picked up because of a sale. Now it's time to make sense of these builds! Thanks guys

once those Acog 1.5x with the ACSS reticles hit the market, I'm running that on my rifle no questions asked

ADM (American Defense Manufacturing) does make an integral ambi bolt release/hold open lever, but it's on a billet lower which is substantially heavier than your poly lowers. Only thing I have an issue with so far is the combo lower/stock; takes away a lot of the versatility and adaptability of the AR stock system, from minimalist all the way to hyper adjustable, but especially the adjustable LOP. There's a good reason that you can now slap an AR tube and stock onto an AK or FAL or shotgun or Glock or ...Sturmgewehr

Biggest one I can think of is carbon fiber wrapped barrels and of course far better electronics/ optics. If you want a reflex that doesn't need batteries and is solid look at the Mepro M21 sights. The forward assist is here to stay though for press checks, it doesn't add much weight anyways. Suppressors should become more of a standard item even if it's a small one. I also think an adjustable stock is key for a general issue weapon, perhaps they could even incorporate adjustable pistol grips like many pistols have now.

I live in Connecticut and the only “stock” (if you can call it that) that you can have on an AR is a kind of blade made out of plastic

Hey guys, rarely comment on videos, but gotta say that I really appreciate your content. It's super nice to see videos where the hosts are not only (extremely) knowledgeable about firearms, but also act like mature adults. It seems too many of these other youtube channels are desperately trying to convince their viewers that the hosts are Ultra Manly Men™ and ultimately reinforcing the unfortunate stereotype of troglodyte gun owners. Thanks again!

The only thing I disagree with is you're assesment of the forward assist. We all used ours when overseas every time we left the wire (every day). After lock and load we would do a small brass check. Then we would hit the forward assist to make sure that 1st round was seated correctly (as sometimes the bolt wouldn't fully go into battery). For that reason I do feel it is a nessesity for a weapon you plan on using to protect your life.

I am really digging the Thomas Kuhn stuff.

Forward assist is useless. You can do press checks by pushing the bolt forward with that little indent in the bcg with your finger. If it doesn't go into battery, you have an issue to clear. Great video btw

Super excited guys!

I had been thinking of asking the question "what do you think is the next step in firearms design" and I think this series stands the chance of answering that question, or at least pointing to what the next AR/AK will look like. The idea to return to the original goals of the weapons system with a half century technological advantage is a fascinating one. Karl's comment about looking at the design from a more end to end perspective was also interesting. I'm interested to see the results of the tests. One thing that I'd like to suggest is handing the guns to some novice shooters and seeing how they function with it. You guys know what you like, how the systems run etc. If this is a "theoretical" military rifle having a novice shooter run them would potentially be an informative test. Thanks again for all the work

Brilliant idea for a video series, Your creativity is second only to Eugene Stoner himself!

cool video canny wait to see the rest. Very interesting topic a big thumbs up

Really looking forward to this series! I think the two of you are uniquely positioned and qualified to do this. I think this is going to be a definitive and very influential series when you're done.

As someone about to start a new build, I look forward to the rest of this series.

the project seems very intersting, at the moment the only thing i would change is the stock. 50 years ago ergonomics wasn't a priority while today it is. plus the soldier of today use body armours/plate carriers and those things have their thickness at the shoulder leading to unconfortable position or having the eyes too far away from the sights

ASA styled side-charging handle (bolt assist and traditional charging handle deleted), with ADM styled ambidextrous bolt release/catch

Ian's 18in gun with a variable 1-6x VCOG(or even Primary Arms SFP) would have served him much better. And despite Karls preference for a red dot, it comes with potential problems for people with bad eyes. Those with astigmatism might not even be able to focus on a red dot, and older folks are definitely gonna want magnification. The Primary Arms 1x Cyclops fixes the astigmatism issue, their 1-6x variable is about the same money and does the 1x job pretty well and adds the 6x capability without the flip-up issues. As for the upper, VLTOR VIS-KM is one that I would have tried. Especially for any one rifle that I was planning to mount some sort of laser to.

This should be interesting. I had a chance to handle Ian's rifle, and it certainly feels light and well balanced. I was impressed.

They are from the internet and they are here to help!!!!

I'd like a reciprocating charging handle but that's just me. Fantastic rifles, great project

Have to disagree with the iron sight bit, but I can't wait how this does. I'm going to base my purchase of a GWACS lower on this series.

Excellent concept. I will say in my humble opinion, however, the XM193 55 grain cartridge is actually an effective cartridge against soft flesh targets, more so than the green tips which boast better penetration yields. Not necessarily wimpy. The ballistics of the cartridge make it less effective on paper but in application, especially seen in the 60s and 70s during the Vietnam War, the XM193 in many instances has a tumble effect which causes extensive organ damage. There maybe better options against flesh targets today, but it's certainly not what the U.S. Army issues out today which is really only better at penetrating concrete (marginally), even though the XM193 can penetrate level 3 armor (at up to ~100 yards if I recall correctly) with a 16" barrel assigned. I think it should be given more credit than most people do, especially for how old it is.

Cant wait for the series to continue.

Call me strange, I think that's kinda pretty on the guns. It's not overloaded with crap and stuff, it's got some nice simple lines and at those weights.... Damn I wish I was over there with you guys. They sound like a dream to shoot.

Probably the location of the T handle. In the Ar10 prototype the charging handle was in the carry handle/ rear sight like in the FaMas. And then you get to use a cheek riser.

Don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but re ambi bolt release: LWRC, LMT, POF, and Ascend all have ambi releases/catches, and CMT, Rainier, and a couple of others have ambi releases

Love the concept of the series and love the look of the rifles overall. Can't wait to see the details behind each part. *** Some random ramblings. From a purely logistical point of view, I wonder how the numbers would run by replacing all non-magnum rifle rounds with 6.5x39mm Grendel or equivalent. Also, with the proliferation of body armour, the extra mass and penetration is a welcome addition. The math behind whether having 5.56 and 7.62 serve in different roles versus replacing them both with an "intermediate intermediate" would be interesting to see. Also, for cool factor although entirely impractical for the build (and probably in general) would be to see if flechettes would be practical given the significant advances in smoothbore APFSDS tank munitions in the past two decades. With our newfound understanding of how they work, it may work. Or may not. Probably not. But just interesting overall.

I love the left-handed mods. I'm a lefty; had to learn to shoot right handed in the Army. I'm building a 6.5 Grendel; I want it to shoot for my preferred eye. Thanks!

ive played games like battlefield and Arma growing up before ive been able to get my own guns and played them competitively and what ive realized works the best in many games is a 2x red dot.

the modified bolt release you're taking about exists, it's called the PDQ, I've got one on my AR and it's awesome.

Suppressors. I think if Stoner where here today, he would be designing the suppressor into the rifle in a modular manner. In fact, I could imagine Stoner creating a design where you would first attach the barrel to the upper receiver, and then attach the outer can also directly to the upper receiver. You could then eliminate the entire gas block and tube, by using the expanding gas from the can, to blow back the BCG directly.

I'm looking forward to this. I already disagree with a couple of your choices, but that's only because what I think would be better options just aren't available on the market today.

I'm curious to see how your review of the carbon fiber handguard goes. I wonder if it'll be sturdy enough to keep a decent zero on an IR laser, considering how important the use of them is with modern military forces? I would imagine so.

This is my favorite video series idea I've seen in a very long time.

Hey, excellent content! Some other innovations you might be interested in: DSArms titanium gas blocks and flash hider, Next Intent Tactical adjustible titanium gas blocks, Vltor A5 buffer systems (if you want to retain a collapsible stock), Griffin Armament QD blast shields, Aero Precision enhanced uppers (much improved barrel nut system). There are SO MANY new innovations which improve this already great rifle.

Patriot Ordnance Factory, local to you guys in AZ, makes full ambi magazine/bolt catch lowers for their 5.56 and .308 AR pattern rifles. Not in polymer like the Cavalry lowers you're using.

excited for this series

I mean, I like to be super patriotically Canadian and all, but man am I jealous of you guys being able to build something like that. First of all, not even sure if you could build something close to that here, and if you can, the AR-15 is restricted and can only be shot at a range with 5 round magazines. Which to be fair would still be cool to have those guns here anyway, but I am super jealous of you. Keep it up, I'm looking forward to seeing more. Also I think the fact that AR-15's are restricted is why I am way more interested in owning old bolt actions.