What You Need To Know About Pedal Clones 

thank you, I've gotten one...

Thanks Josh. I get those spam emails about RU-vid comments all the time. Very annoying to say the least. FYI-Just bought the JHS Tidewater and it is excellent. Thanks for making quality pedals. Take care

New factors to making pedals. Paton is out. I think it’s likability, sound to your preferences, popularity, and buzz factor on the internet. Or being a nomad and playing cheap pedals and sounding great. It’s not wrong, just a fun thing to watch, and a fun time to be in the game. Love deep pedal talks too, didn’t have this in the musicians friend mag of 96 and buying my first slam punk. Great time, and great job.

telespam

So I didn’t win a prize 😭😅 Cussin’ spammers 🙄 Thx for the videos !!

I think social media is largely to blame. It's built on a cynical feedback loop that engages the brain with a million little dopamine hits, and the most fool-proof way to get people engaged and to drive ad revenue up is inflammatory and argumentative content. It further entrenches us in our "camps" and is rarely productive.

You must have been living under a rock the past few years, society has been broken. 😂

Changing your mind is a sign of weakness. Unless you are changing your mind to agree with me. Anyone reading this, please make sure you understand: I am not being literal. This isn't exactly new, although it's gotten worse and worse and I think a big part of why it has gotten so bad is tribalism in everything. Not to mention the proliferation of social media bots on certain platforms that make posts or comments with no backing to their claims, but just spread the same unfounded conspiracies for lack of a better term That makes people not want to engage because they have engaged with people before who plug their ears and refuse to have a conversation and they're tired of it. But how many of those conversations were with real people and not paid bots or troll farms or pic? Any number of other term.

@@GregStraub42 a fine point. I've managed to cull my social media to the point where I don't encounter any of that anymore. I'm a lot happier ever since. Those people, or operatives, are very exhausting.

"Doubling down" is the worst thing you can do as a gambler and the worst thing you can do as a thinker.

that's great to hear man! as an Indonesian art teacher with less than minimum wage i also could only afford Chinese clones (mosky, caline) for now (although my first ever pedal was a TC Electronic). I'm inspired by how you could upgrade your gears, and i wish someday soon i can do too! thank you

@@adriantomo5688sebagai mantan jurnalis di Indonesia, saya juga merasakan yg mas rasakan hahaha. Alhamdulillah pelan2 bisa upgrade dan ngakakin kebeeman pake multi effects. Semangat mas!

Even if you’re rich, a circuit is a circuit at the end me of the day and saving money will always be the savy thing to do. Maybe the legit pedal companies should stop charging hundreds of dollars for a metal box and 20 dollars of electrical components if they don’t want people like me choosing to buy from companies ripping them off.

@@EllissDee4you4me That is the crux of the issue, but the pedal companies cannot stop charging hundreds of dollars because they are paying the wages and other costs of doing business in a developed nation (where individuals expect higher wages and benefits). JHS would not be able to hire people in the US by paying well below minimum wage. Instead, JHS would have to outsource the manufacturing to China where wages and benefits are very low, where there are no environmental laws, long-term benefit costs, etc. Would you work at a pedal company for $3/hour or less? I wouldn't.

​@@EllissDee4you4meyes-- if the sound makes you happy, buy just the sound; if you like the pedal, go for the pedal, and then if you find out you like the sound, you can even ditch the pretty box...

podcasts are a gift, i dont get it why wont everybody interesting who got things to say dont jump on it

Truth - the idea that changing your mind makes you weak is fixed mindset at its finest

Same here! Josh is so modest, understanding, down-to-earth and mature - he's so willing and eager to listen to, understand and appreciate the perspectives of others!

These are my fav parts of this channel by miles. The show feels like a show, its great and entertaining as heck but these monday episodes stick with me more and have me thinking alot more about them.

Hear hear

Good thing MGM didn’t make pedals

All the homies love B

Monovlog

/beerhoist

I did the same but do not consider you endorsed them, meerley pointed out that one pedal sounded like another.

Well said. I wasn’t sure about fuzz, so I tried the Behringer & didn’t have to take the risk of having a white elephant

The types of people who want [and can afford] boutique pedals were never going to buy cheap clones in the first place.

@@InventorZahran yeah it's the difference of being a collector, and just needing a functional circuit for the tone.

I’ve seen your pedals on eBay and or Reverb. 👍😎

Ditto and great point ShopMechanic!!

a few months ago i bought a behringer vibrato based on your video and then my housemate did too, because it was cheap enough to not to bother borrowing mine. i've been thinking about how to use this effect in my next recording project, which i might not have done if you hadn't suggested a way to incorporate an inexpensive yet Josh-approved sound. don't underestimate your power as an influencer, there's working/writing/touring/recording/releasing musicians taking your advice and running with it.

@@stoneysdead689 I’m speaking for myself, u can do whatever u want bro, and that’s fine, I don’t judge u

@igor use a reshipper service

Thats cool man, but ultimately, whats your budget? thats the question. I'd love an OG 69 plexi but realistically I'll never own one, not cause i'll never afford it, but i dont want to pay 30k for an amp i can get a clone of for 1k. dont feel bad man.

@@rmmst49 they certainly can help when availability is the issue, but I've found the shipping costs can be pretty steep. Plus they're are plenty of countries where a day's work won't earn you what an hour earns in others. US made means a US price tag. Igor, I feel your pain brother.

And that is a prime example of respecting pedals as a type of art form. If you want the tone and want to save money, buy a clone... If you love the original and have the means to respect the artist, do that then lol

why...not clones

Ive got a couple Behringer pedals for that exact reason. Wanted to try, but wasnt sure.if it was.worth spending the money

Great approach.

Bikes have pedals. That's where you're getting confused...🙂

I had a Huffy as well when I was a kid. Now I ride a 1968 Schwinn Lemon Peeler. It’s better than the Huffy. 😁

This describes the situation oh too well ... the big elephant in the room is the fact that most people are more interested in how they appear to others, self-image. "How do I *LOOK* using this thing?"

I had a Schwinn Typhoon when I was a kid. Totally indestructible and not for lack of effort on my part to do so. Our garage was littered with the remnants of other bikes (including Huffy) that could not withstand that level of abuse. My dad was a machinist who grew up in the Depression, too... who got tired of spending his money buying me another bike every so often. This is probably why I play Gibson guitars. :)

@@HazeAnderson That's iphone as well.

You should bring the subject ... DemonFX are flooding ebay with label clearly open to confusion.

that might be interesting from a graphic design perspective, how close is too close and when does it start to deceive? can it be in tribute? where are the lines?

Open it! Show the world if they work, compare it to the “real deal” and IN YOUR OPINION say whatever is worth it or not, we’re talking about products and market capitalism is not moral at all and your opinion as a experience man is important 🔥👌🏻

No one in their right mind looks at those pedals and thinks they are the same thing. I too would be curious how well they emulate what they are trying to clone... in the same way that Josh stated that most pedal makers are trying to make their own versions. Unless it's an exact copy down to even using the company name of JHS, as an example, I simply can't buy the argument. Love the 60 Cycle Hum channel and again would encourage you to do that show since I find you to be a very honest reviewer and curious like the rest of us.

The thing that made me realize I was pretty okay with blatant guitar style copies is that the people who invented most of the really famous shapes (strat, tele, les Paul, etc) are not alive anymore. In 126 years when Josh and his r &d team are gone I wouldn't feel as bad about a blatant rip off of a morning glory, but if it happened now I would think it was sleazy.

I think that the PRS shape is closer to a Gibson Les Paul Jr Doublecut than it is to a Strat

Suhr guitars are high-class clones of strats and teles as well

I don't care if PRS or Suhr or whoever do it, and lord knows they both make mad quality instruments-- my issue is, why would I want to make a higher end copy of a Strat? I love Strats to the point of NOT wanting to make them. When I see a St. Vincent or a Yamaha Flying Samurai (both of which are indebted to other guitars but are not high end clones) I'm interested. The SG or Explorer or Flying V were Gibson reactions to Fender's success. That's the innovation and evolution and variation and creativity that Josh was talking about in relation to spins on some of the original pedal fathers (fuzz tone, benders, faces, muffs, dist plus, 250s, tubescreamers, etc.) I just can't believe all the "shapes" and design styles are done. I refuse to believe it. A wheel is a wheel but an electric guitar is an electric guitar. For that matter, why not variations on acoustics or even effing violins? The electric guitar has the potential to vary wildly, why not do it?

That is a good question. And it is interesting to compare, how the two big guitar companies are dealing with this issue.

He mentioned the label "dual drive" on one, I don't think a generic description is something that falls under Trade dress.

I think that the KOT is an outlier in the overall discussion outlined by Josh and your comments here also. Whilst I agree with your sentiments regarding ethical choices often impacted upon by socio-economic circumstances, there are still a myriad of choices. One need not buy the most expensive version of a circuit, yet they can still buy from reputable builders without going down the cheap Chinese clone/copy route. As for my thoughts that the KOT is an outlier, the way I see it is that's a builders choice to remain small in terms of staff to make the gear and not meet the demands in reasonable time. Of course people will & have looked elsewhere to fill that void. Perhaps the mxr version will address the current void in the marketplace, due to a lack of stock to meet demand. Notwithstanding, like any other industry, branding, look etc is worth something and people are willing to pay accordingly. However, cheap clones per se exist only to profit of another's hard R&D. Times are tough worldwide at the moment, so naturally there will be people who gravitate toward cheap clones & will continue to do so. The reality is the pedals themselves aren't really famous, it's those that used them to make them famous is often forgotten about. Therefore, whilst so many guitarists seem obsessed with recreating the sounds of their heroes, few if any can do so exactly. They don't have the same hands and likely the rest of the gear isn't exactly the same. Over and above that the reality is that many 'near enough' copies are perfectly fine as nobody is going to know the difference in a live band setting and likely the same when listening back to a studio mix, even through high end gear. As for me I don't own or want a KOT, I use a Protein, that's different sure, but gives me what I'm looking for. There's no doubt this is a golden age in the pedal world for choice, from a myriad of boutique builders through to mainstays and Chinese clones. I am concerned about this vast choice will mean the market will eventually be forced to restructure and many of the more boutique builders will be no longer as their pedals are quickly copied and sold for significantly less. Similarly, I note that many of the cheapest clones are sold through generic large stores such as Amazon. I'd much prefer to support a smaller specialised music store, rather than a global giant, who's board make enormous sums of money, yet the staff are paid the minimum wage. So, for me I have no cheap clones & I typically shop at music stores, including their online marketplace. The ease of which marketing including RU-vid reaches millions is undeniable & RU-vid 'influencers' have played a considerable role in the rapid rise of cheap clones. (Not sure where I was going with this reply 🤔, so much to be said for such a broad topic. ) Cheers. 😎👍

@@nostro1001 you're going towards a civilized discussion with the reply, that's for sure. Much like the video, any takes that makes us think further on the subject are good ones. I actually only met the KOT through my guitar teacher, who has one and lent it to me for some gigs, both covers and my own music, and it blew me away, but really that is not the usual way we hear about and experience these pedals usually. More often than not it's like you said, through our heroes, and a wish to chase those wonderful sounds that charmed us so many times. The heroes and influencers do play their part in making us want this instead of that, these instead of those, and surely play a part on molding what everyone wants, willingly or not, and it is yet another layer to this cake. But yeah, I believe that the main question in Josh's take is the ethics of the whole thing, and really the more faceless a corporation is, the less they care about it, after all the more faceless you are, less accountable you become. You may get sued, you may even have to pay millions, but the pockets get filled and the shareholders are never really up to scrutiny from the people that bought the stuff. God, I miss when I could afford a boutique pedal every now and then, and actually be able to talk to the guys that built it (not the builders fault, just other factors screwing my capability to do that) Cheers, mate. Any take that moves the discussion and makes you think is welcome

@@loukabarone Haha... A civilised discussion on the internet. 🤔 ( I must be getting old). And yes, thanks for continuing...😎 Ethics are so hard to determine and we all make ethical decisions many times a day. It seems part of the issue, (in this space anyway), is that most want things now. So, the concept of saving up for something one really wants seems to be dying. Notwithstanding, 'buy now, pay later' schemes are a plenty and can assist with purchases. We also didn't throw into the mix the rise of modellers. Today they do a solid job of recreating pedals & amps and are used professionally. Years back there were no such things or they did a lousy job. That's all changed and most likely adds further pressure in an already crowded marketplace. Ethically, I'd like to see more RU-vidrs give greater attention to smaller/local builders, rather than cheap alternatives that legitimise those products. Sure, I get RU-vidrs need to make a living and spending small sums of money that can easily be recouped via a video is fairly easy, compared to sourcing pricier gear. Reaching out often solves this issue. By in large I think there's been a saturation re demos of 'cheap' gear that has legitimised many of the offerings, rather than questioning the product. There's just too much tit for tat going on. It's worth noting that in the hi fi realm, most do not provide sound bites of the gear reviewed due to the compressed nature of the sound. Yet in the guitar world, it seems the norm that the audience is able to pick up slight nuances through this medium. Oh and lastly there's the 'honesty' of reviews that Josh spoke about recently. What is especially in my mind is the post processing that most don't refer to. So many pedal sounds can be and likely are heavily manipulated to sound 'good'. That doesn't really tell me what a pedal/guitar sounds like. And I've grown to 'distrust' the larger/pro player reviewers that clearly use their pro studio to manipulate the end product. I have no issues watching on occasions, but I no longer get influenced by their sounds. They can make just about anything sound good and most that watch are simply not in their league as players, let alone have the high end production skills are perhaps even the gear. Cheers. 👊

Most "influencers" are paid to shill the high priced brand, not cheap clones.

Better philosopher than Rhett Schull, amirite?

how do they push the industry to innovate? sounds a little woo woo

@@rmmst49 when you have a bunch of factories creating the same stuff, as a manufacturer you have you ask yourself "What can I do better or different? Create something people can enjoy?" If we were all content with what we have, we would still be on landlines and typewriters.

whatever makes you happy dude, but “every pedal is good” is woo woo woo delusional

It's called Brand Confusion. The fact that Apple won because of rounded corners on their tablets pretty much put a nail in the coffin that similar look isn't enforceable

Hahaha 🤣

use a re shipper service from the us.

If you buy the original pedal because of this video Josh achieve his goal of making big money 💰

The difference is that with the homage watches, they're often an exact one-to-one copy building materials, movements and build quality---to where they sometimes even fool Rolex dealers. You're also going to pay $500 to $1,000 for homage of a $10,000 Rolex. Generally most people just go with the cheap knockoffs if they're going that route, or if they want to spend that kind of money will get something from a different brand that still has the same quality

@@kavonbakowski8358 I would posit what you are referring to would be counterfeit still. Counterfeits can range from a $30 wish dot whatever watch to a $1000 copy of a Rolex Daytona, down to a counterfeit movement that real Rolex parts WILL interchange with. It has the branding, it's counterfeit. Whereas steinhart and *cough* Invicta make more homages. 5 to 10 feet away they look 99% the part(they are just watches, after all). But they have their own branding and logos. Counterfeits don't have to be cheap. Or expensive. Just steal trademarks\copyrights.

@@stoneysdead689 haha if you know what a Corgeut or Parnis is you just might be a WIS(if you're not, I apologize. It's a watchuseek forum phrase...)... And yeah. There is a fine line between knock-off(corgeut\parnis) and homage(Invicta steinhart etc). And just like guitar world, a whole nother realm of new brands buying old IP so they can cash in on the nostalgia with a minimum of R&D(I'm looking at you modern Harmony, Supro, and Silvertone).

The RAT clone I just built (for my guitar player) is black. :)

I agree, also orange=phaser, purple=flanger, teal/turquoise=chorus, tremolo, vibrato type of modulation effects. Most of those subconsious standards were set long time ago by the very successful trendsetter, influential, big time guitar effects pedal companies (boss, mxr etc)