@@chrispack3131 keep in mind that the affected bikes are the parallel twin engines ones, 790-890-901. If you go bigger to the V-twin engines they are reported to be very reliable. Thanks for watching!!!
Also: the flow of oil (ml/min) is given by the rpms of the oil pump. So if you open up the jets, you will get more flow through them (and yes: probably not spraying the oil where it should be) but also get LESS oil to other places in the engine, where it is needed, so creating problems in other bearings!
I just sold my KTM 790 Adventure S, 2021, 42000 km, that I was using as a travel bike. Because I don’t ride off road anymore I traded it in for a Yamaha Tracer 7 GT with the CP2 engine. I just don’t like the clutch handeling, to brutal, surely on a cold engine, and 20HP less of course. Very vivid engine that makes way less motor noise than my orange bike, who sounded nearly as a Ducati. The Yamaha dealer has an old KTM mechanic working for him who’s camshafts on his 790 Duke were eaten after 7000km…He checked my camshafts and they had some running marks, but no damage to be worried about. I had an extended warranty and I mailed KTM who responded that they recognized the problem that is caused by clogged oil jets on the cams in some cases or bad maintenance (their words). They told me that warranty is no problem if the bike is maintained by a KTM dealer. I am not a very sporty rider who raves above 8000, 9000 rpm’s. I am a long distance rider, riding around 4000 to 8000 km each trip through Europe, on small roads. I wanted a light, economic and powerful bike and my KTM responded 100% to that. But reliability is the most important thing. All those worried and disappointed KTM owners made me trade in my bike after I had for the third time a water hose who was leaking at the thermostat housing on my last trip to France. I think KTM should offer a cam inspection on a recall, but they don’t. They wait until things break down. The problem in my opinion is that not every bike has it, so they can’t find and resolve the problem their self. I was in the point buying a KTM 890 SMT, but to manny doubts made me chose a Yamaha with 5 years of warranty here in Europe and 3000 euros cheaper. These are the troubles I had with my KTM, covered by warranty: stoplight sensor broke after 1500km, water hoses leaking several times, changed the clamps, but still have to keep an eye on them, immobilizer failure and rear shock blown at 25000km, but still, I loved my bike. It was my third KTM after two 990 Adventure’s who had some problems too (one water pump and a head gasket), but I loved those characteristic bikes. I have a good befriended KTM dealer who is disappointed of course, but what to do else when you loose your confidence in the brand.
@@ChocoBelge you have a good point, if you loose confidence in the brand you have no choice than to move on to something else. I really hope ktm comes up with something that makes us go and buy them again. Thanks for watching!!!
I think you are mistaken that KTM are moving to China to be more competitive on price to offer customers better deals. The move to China will decrease the manufacturing cost for KTM making the bikes more profitable for KTM. They are not going to pass that saving on to the customers by reducing sale prices.
@@FMC-20244 they are clear why they are doing this in the shareholders report, they need to clear old stock. These are temporary discounts due to bikes not selling. They are clear in the share holders reports they target KTM as a “premium” brand.
As far as I've heard, KTM are sourcing more production to China, not moving the entire operation to China. I'm guessing the LC8c motor platform will be entirely handled by CF Moto. Other than that it seems speculation.
@@davidmallia628 that is absolutely correct, once joe gets his bike back we plan on checking the cams again every 1k miles to see if the new head fixed the issue or if we still deal with this. Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244 fingers crossed, but it shouldn't be that way. The cause of the problem should be positively, without doubt, identified. Then the fix should preclude any such, same, problem. Cheers!
KTM cannot have the parts available to drop off the bike Monday and pick it up Friday >>> that is >>>> unless you book three to four months in advance.
KTM had always have reliability issues , even while it was build in Europe.....and now in China - you can only imagine ..... I am not going near them any more.....
Ktm must return to Austria for all bikes. Ktm must be smaller manufacture company that will produce less bikes but with the best quality for dirt and adventure bikes like 20 years before. Of course the price's will be higher, but someone that want a dirt or adventure bike with high quality with no issue will pay it. I have an adventure 950 and I LOVE it. Now on 2024 I can not find a bike with the quality, the design and simple electrical and mechanic parts like 950.
It is too expensive to manufacture in Austria at this point. Manufacturing can be done in a cheaper country as long as strict quality standards are followed.
@@SingleSpeederLife the subject is about the 790 which is already in production in china and Chris birch already rode and reviewed one. Thanks for watching!!!
Hello! First of all, I live on the border with Austria in Germany. 10 minutes from me is a development center of Pierer Mobility 😉😉 Many people write here that the solution would be to build the motorcycles in Austria again and not in China. I am telling you now very clearly and unambiguously!! The problem of poor quality is not the production location, but the quality of the parts that are used. If the parts are simply bad, it doesn't matter whether they are installed by Austrian or Chinese hands. Proof of this...?? Years ago I wanted to buy a 790 Adventure (Made in Austria!!) and the KTM dealer openly listed all the problems for me. Everything was there, engine... electrics... workmanship... every component was affected. It should be clear that I didn't buy a KTM... the problem is Pierer himself. He only thinks about profit at all costs. Regardless of whether the quality suffers. For years it worked well, now the bubble has burst and Pierer is being served the bill. I am excited to see what happens with KTM in the future. Things are not looking good at the moment... Greetings from Bavaria 😉😉
Aldo I liked prettig much my 890 Adv, I’m happy I got rid of it (before this CamGate popped-up), cause I really start to believe there is no “affordable” solution this resolve this crappy engine design. Sorry for all those 890 owners.
They did NOT move "the whole production to China". Just some models. The problem seems to be bad design of the oil flows. Therefore, just exchanging the camshafts will not necessarily solve the issue. Also, the bad design probably comes from Mattighofen, not China.
@@Amerigo73 yes, the analysis done by the dirt garage guy shows that the galleys drilled in the head to bring oil to the jets are misaligned and so restrict the flow. Had they drilled those more precisely or quality-controlled them after drilling, the want be a problem. If that’s actually the case, then it’s an execution/manufacturing problem not a design one.
@@miro_s Maybe yes. This would shed a very different light on things. If that's the root cause, it would mean something entirely different than a flawed design from Mattighofen. Anyway, not replying to customers and stating problems as nonexistent are amplifying the issues. All problems are always "never heard of this before" and KTM isn't the only brand trying to pull this off. It usually ends when the American market / NHTSA wants a recall.
I own a 2023 KTM 890 S model. It has 2800 miles on the clock. It is by far the worst bike I’ve ever owned ever! Everything they say on Social media is 100% true, do not buy the 790/890 adventure bikes. OR MAYBE I JUST GOT THE LEMON A WHOLE BUNCH!!
I have a 2021 890 with 20,300 miles on it, and just bought a 2023 890r left over. I have a little over 3000 on the 2023. I have, and do enjoy both bikes. The only issue I have with the 2023 is over 85 degree day, the left leg get to warm. The suspension on the 2023 is better at slow speed hits, other then that, they are super fun to ride fast.
@@ioandragulescu6063 china is very capable of doing quality products, the thing is that suppliers import the cheapest products do make a margin. I guess we will see what happens!!! Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244 my joke was directed towards KTM, not the Chinese, precisely because they are on an insanely fast improvement path, while old Europe (and not just) is stagnating at best.
This make me think that if the 790 and 890 have the same cam issues then probably the new 990 will have the same problem, they are all parallel twins. By the way i love your shirt!
Good point for the oil pump. Or maybe relocate the jet ? Or add an other lub port ? I can not believe that KTM engineers see stuck with this issue that s just killing the sales .
I‘m not sure about that „high rpm = higher oil pressure“ theory or correlation. Even in idle and on low RPM‘s and cool (thicker oil) the oil pressure must be sufficient and the oil needs to go where it belongs. If that theory was true, all engines would have that issue.
@@FMC-20244 Sure. All good. That's why I've called it a theory ;D I'm living near the KTM factory in Austria and we've got 3 large dealers here. If I've got the time, I will vist them and ask them about the issues at hand. I have my own history of KTM dealers not aknowleding an issue (1190 Adventure starter motors back then in 2016).
@@FMC-20244 hahaha. Great sense of humor. I subscribed to your channel... I own a F850GSA (took from Miami to Thailand over a 6 month trip) and a 2018 R1200GSA (took from Miami to Ushuaia, Argentina over another 6 month trip and dozens of crossing in the States -- going out again for another 3k ride next week -- on roads only this time). Both are pigs off-road but comfortable. Now looking for my next tour -- maybe Miami to South Africa but its hot with trouble there -- or back to South America via Mexico, Central America ... Thinking of an Africa Twin or a R1300GS (not GSA this time to save weight). I'm worried less about money than do the right thing. I would get the 790 because it weighs 475lbs wet -- I''ve have not had a bike that light in 15 years and dream of shedding pounds. But I dont want to get caught up in the KTM shit somewhere in Bolivia in the middle of nowhere. I need cruise control -- makes life easier when on a 6 month ride. Thoughts on some bikes yo like?
@@Coldgecko thank you for subscribing!!! Honestly it’s near impossible to recommend a bike because ADV riding is different for everyone. One thing no one can argue is that Japanese bikes are the most reliable ones, and that’s something you want If you travel remote places in the world. I own a T7 and really like it. I always say I have the T7 to travel the country, If I was to travel the world I’d get a brand new xr650l and build it for that purpose.
The irony of this is that the CFMOTO bikes that use this same engine don't have this problem despite their chinesium reputation, I own an IBEX 800 just came from service and asked them to inspect valves for this same reason (out of pocket of course since I've owned it for "only" 40k miles) and they look pristine, there's also another youtuber that checked his don't remember his name or mileage but its easy to find, I know its not the solution you guys want/deserve but for what its worth, if you need to fix your bike on your own maybe its worth swapping the head and cams for the IBX ones? should be a direct swap
I have a 2021 890 AdvR and my dealer said that they have heard of it but they have never seen it. Mine is out of warranty and goodwill is case by case. Typical "none-answer".
I recently, dropped by a dealer to try the 890 ADV ( 2024 ). The engine was rattling and clicking, as if it was an old - going to pieces Harley. To my question if this is normal, the dealer responded YES, they are like this..... Well, I've ridden the Duke 690 some years ago - nothing like THIS was there. So yes - till KTM SOLVES the reliability issue - I keep away 🤷♂
Poor reliability, durability, longevity & the price of spare parts best described as extortion. Is it really a mystery why so many avoid KTM's like the plague?
@@FMC-20244 I agree with that but that is why they added the screen in the gallery. what we really need to know is how many failures per bikes sold per year. It may not be that bad if it is only a couple of percentages. Similar to the Porsche IMS bearing issue
@@FMC-20244 I believe the problem lies on how the jets were drilled. Another fellow had a very convincing argument that it was a manufacturing defect in the head causing the jet to have only half the oil supply it was suppose to. Basically half the jet, where it sits in its seat was misaligned when drilled. That is where the oversize jet argument is coming from, it will restore the intended flow it should have had in the first place.
I agree with hard riding comment. Not that I have proof.... yet. Ask me in 6000 miles when I have valve service. I don't warm up bike. Once bike has started then all components are covered with nice synthetic oil. I then immediately ride. Not too hard for first mile ie not over 5 or 6k. Then I am off. I don't commute, I ride very early when it's quiet, few cars and fast. If having to trundle I usually ride a great higher than I need to, so that revs keep up. Will see in a year whether this has helped.
Back in the 1970’s, the Penton 125 with Sachs engine, KTM outside the USA, commonly broken the gear selector shaft. When mine broke, I went to the dealer to buy new parts to repair it. “No charge” they told me.
KTM should come good. People have given them hard earned money at a premium price for a substandard product. Moving to China sure isn't going to help with reliability issues
I use to ride from 4 to 20. Then had a break. I am 35 now. 1 year ago I started again. Ofc a KTM as always. 125sx to learn back faster. Now I got my skills back after puting 120 hours last year. I gonna get a Yamaha yz 250 2t. No more KTM for me.
@@Tapsa-f9r honestly we see the issue with the parallel twins, the rest are pretty good. I own a 2020 te250 and it’s be absolutely flawless. Thanks for watching!!!
It is hard to do a recall when you do not have a fix. To replace worn cams with the same product does not solve the underlying issue. It is obviously not simply a case of poor hardening, after all parco lubrite hardening has worked for every other manufacturer in hundreds of millions of engines for over a century. Design fault issues in lubrication systems are an entirely different matter. How a pissy little filter can help does not make sense and obviously does not work. I sympathise with the manufacturer, CF Moto whose reputation will be diminished by their association with this loser company that is destined to the scrap heap of history. I hope before its demise it at least sells off the great brand names it acquired and then tarnished.
Made in China is not a crap... At least... The NK800 with the same engine same cam shaft, has no issue at all..😉. Anyhow, going to use the Cfmoto cam shaft as replacement, cheaper and more reliable.
In the US, I wonder if some of these cam problems could be warranty claimed under the emission warranty provision which is quite a bit longer than the bike's warranty?
@@theperipateticgumshoe9047 haven’t heard anything yet, so far the problem is only known for the parallel twin engines,not the v twin. Thanks for watching!!!
I followed Pierer Mobility Group, it's going down the drain... Since Covid they suffer big losses. This isn't gonna help. If they want to fix this they need to gain trust again from customers. But stockholders want short term results. You can't have both.
Audi Cars have a similar oil pressure issue in the newer diesels ... I'm wondering if there's an oil pump that's is variable via engine mapping as in those Audis which is responsible
@@FMC-20244 by the way, I think it’s really cool that you actually react to the people that remark on your videos. Where are you from? What country are you from?
@@MrFagawi absolutely!!! Without you guys, my watchers and subscribers my channel is worthless, so if people comment the least I can do is answer!!! I’m from Germany 🇩🇪 living in the USA 🇺🇸. Appreciate the kind words!!!
I can understand the WHY when talikng saving capital. Really !!! KTM are all abot profit margin and their shareohlders. Peirre Mobility are not abot their customera... Yet people still buy them.. I just dont get it. Go get an exc 500. you wont get much change out of $16,000 AU.
Do you know what you are talking about? KTM moved 790 to China. Not the whole production. They also make 390s in India. Do a little more research before picking up a mic please
It's a shame because before the 790/890 KTM's were extremely reliable. I had nearly 75,000 miles on my 950 before I sold it and it didn't burn a drop of oil. I had a 640 with 40,000 miles and right now I've got 25,000 trouble free miles on my 690 enduro. The "unreliable" claims were totally unfounded....until now. KTM needs to figure out the issue before they destroy the brand.
