I have seen this demonstrated a few years back on someone elses RU-vid channel. I definitely thought it was interesting so I went and applied it to my kit. Here I am a few years later with a very warped hoop and what feels like a "crooked drum." I don't know how else to describe it really. The sound? amazing. The long term results? Not worth it IMO. I'm aware that you can always tighten the drum back up after each session and that's what I did. But there's only so many 3 to 4 hour long sessions a few times a week that a detuned drum can handle. I wish I could say this technique was the "end all- be all" but in my eyes it's not. Does it achieve a great sound? Absolutely. For long term use? I personally don't think so.
But wait! Couldn't you have done it the way after lets say a month of usage, take down the skins, turn the whole snare 90º and put it back tuning it the same way soo it would "pull the hoop back"? Just a thought tough. Should work...
I really think this should be used as a studio application. most natural drum tones cover so much of the audio spectrum that most of the natural overtones wind up getting mixed out anyways in favor of the rest of the band. live most of those inherit snare sounds dissappear due to loud guitars/vox/etc so needing to use this tuning method all of the time would almost be pointless anyways. Imo this tuning method is just a shortcut to getting that very in place snare sound that's on most recordings. As an aspiring engineer getting the snare sound right is always a ton of work so this is just another super handy tool in the engineer's toolbox
+dzemohendrix I think no matter how you try and alleviate the tension, you will inevitably warp your head over time. Yeah you can rotate it and pull on the opposite side, but how many do you think a head will sustain that before you reach diminishing returns? As John said, this should really be used as a studio application (which in this regards, is fantastic), because if you're a live musician, delay the inevitable as you may, but using this tuning method for 3 hours a night will wear your heads out much faster than not.
+SpectreSoundStudios Anyways Glenn, greetings from India, and I'm a HUGE fan of your channel... absolutely fucking LOVE your arsenal of drummer and bass player jokes haha
+norwaydude6 If you're playing funk, sure; but for rock and metal, most people prefer a dry snare for a punchy, quick decay that doesn't hang around and leave unwanted (for metal at least) overtones. Try using a snare tuned like that for AC/DC, it just doesn't work. Much the same as using a super dry snare for reggae won't work, different genres and styles call for different sounds, the beauty of this technique is that you very quickly and easily switch between those sounds just by tuning the bottom lugs up or down.
+MesaMXR It's preferred by Jazz drummers quite a lot because it gives the snare a clean, dynamic and classic snare sound. It'd be very hard to find a Buddy Rich or Dave Weckl track that doesn't have that overtone sound. I personally like it because it gives the drum more bounce for fast double strokes and just overall bounce. Plus, you can do some really awesome manipulative techniques and sounds on the snare by varying distance where you hit the stick on the head while doing rim shots (just hit the head and rim at the same time: makes any snare hit louder and snappier) - closer to the rim is more overtony, and centre snare is full snap.
I know this is an old video and you probably already have but I actually got his drum tuning dvd and it really has made a big difference for me and my drums.
I've came across that video a couple of months ago and used it for stage and recording... It's really easy and practical... You can tune your snare within 2 minutes backstage and you're good to go... works also perfect with 13" snare and 8 lugs...
+ydin9 I noticed that his snare sounded pretty similar to the one in this video on the And Justice for all album where it was tuned high, but there was no ring.
ReznovRulz Having a high pitched snare ain't necessarily a bad thing, but pushing it up in the mix,.. well we all know the results.It's the Lars way of saying "I hate the snare drum, our music and you all have to suffer with me".
I saw the video you're referencing video a while back and when it comes to hi-fi recordings, I've lived by this method of tuning since I first saw it, it's saved so much time in the mixing stage of things, keep up the good vids man! :)
You should do a video where you compare what the snare sounds like with the ripple effect vs. moongels, rings and other techniques. Sort of like your A B cabinet shoot out. Love your videos by the way!
I have been using this technique for a few weeks and I will never go back to "normal" tuning again! This is just the best way to tune a snare this far. Oh, and thanks Glenn for your videos! I got my wilkinson audio clips this week thanks to the video you posted about them, brilliant! I'm gonna try the behringer ecm8000+sm57 clip I got on my snare this weekend when we are going to record a cover of phantom of the opera by Iron maiden. I guess all I wanted to say is thanks Glenn, I have watched all your videos and subscribed already at the beginning when you started out and the channel was pretty small. Thanks and keep up the good work! Greetings from Finland!
I agree this works like a charm. I've been using this tuning for both live and in studio. The only thing I do different is loosing the one lug closest to me and tightening the lugs on either side of that lug 1 more turn.
There is an artist spotlight for Benny Greb that Remo did where he uses talks about using a very similar method to this. His is on an 8 lug snare,, however it is the same principle. Seeing as how Benny can play out drum most of the population in his sleep I would say this technique definitely worth checking out. Well done Glen
Holy crap! You just solved something I never knew could be cured! What's next? Warp drive? Cancer? My wife always being late? Dude! You the man! (and the original people you cited as producing the method, of course) . Thanks for the information. I am going to try this today.
I have an old Pearl Free Floating snare which I've noticed always sounds a little better later into the session because the 6'o'clock tension rod ALWAYS comes loose. I used to hate the fact that it did that and tried to fix it but finally gave up because it does actually improve the tone.
I have done this. I used it for my metal band, and my country band, works amazing live as well. It is wonderful for controlling your snare sound, its really really good
saw his technique for this a while back, was always curious what you thought about it. seems really handy to know how to do as it can probably save a lot of time for some people to get a great sound.
This one's a couple years old, but I was reminded of this when I saw a Vulfpeck video. The Frequent Flyers video has the drummer using a rippled snare as well and it's not a metal or rock song. Seems like an interesting recording technique.
+69zenos1 Of course I'm a bassist. It's not my day job though, hence I'm not fundamentally brain dead. I can give you counting lessons if you need them.
Thank you thank you I have been trying for years to get the snare right on dire straits so far away from me now I have it I watched your video and the other. Wow thank you.
This will still warp your drum terribly after a while whether you tune it back up or not. If you leave it detuned it's uneven tension which will ruin your shell and maybe hoops. If you're constantly tuning and debuting half of it you will still ruin your drum and maybe hoops. There's a reason we use the star pattern to change heads the whole time, having uneven tension while tightening is just as bad as having uneven tension constantly. I can see this being a cheap studio trick for recording your record one time but not as a final solution unless you have plenty of money to keep buying snares but then you don't need the cheapest solution anyway.
+SpectreSoundStudios a lot of drums are still wood. Maybe for you this isn't a problem but it's not unreasonable to say it could be for some people. If it works for you, more power to you.
+SpectreSoundStudios believe me, i saw steel snare drums with die cast hoops that were still warped by a bad tuning technique (yes, the shell and the die cast were warped). The best technique to tune is to use two drum keys, start with finger-tensioned lugs and go on 2 lugs at a time, by turning them 1/4 round and increase until you reach the tone you want, and you can have any sound you want, without drum dials or muffles or moongels. But this technique you shown will warp the hoops and the shell, on a long run.
Dude, I fucking LOVE the drum tones you've been getting on these last few videos(started noticing during your room mics vid...I'm gasing for a pair of ribbon mics now).
It sound like you are getting some great sounds the way it is right now, but I think part of what Masshoff was trying to say in the original video was that he uses this technique so that he doesn't have to use a controlled head like the one you have on right now, like you said this trick let's a wider range if frequencies through but I think you might have even better results with an uncontrolled head. Great video!
This is a cool technique (I personally use it on both of my snares to get a sampled/909 sound), but it should be noted that the extent to which you were using it can be a little dangerous in the long run for your snare. Large enough disparities in tension over time will force the shell to warp, and go out of round. In general a similar effect can be achieved by just making sure the bottom 3~4 lugs are at mismatched tension. Provided the rest of the head is in tune, the detune will kill off a majority of overtones and keep the head under safer tension.
That was a neat concept, 23 years of drumming I never thought of trying that in the studio, thanks for posting Glen, and about warped hoops, well it`s not like they cost a fortune so why not have one just for that purpose for studio time right?, cheers! (that comment was for the doubters)
Phosyll It's Google+s weird nickname thing, I just happened to be online at around the time Google+ was forcing everyone's RU-vid names to be the same as their G+ names, which had to comprise of a first and last name, so I set it as this and hasn't touched it since :P
Seriously never tried this technique but stumbled across the original video a while ago. It seems to do the trick as it still keeps the drum sounding like a drum. As opposed to those horrible drum rings that just kill everything and make any drum sound like your hitting a cardboard box! I still like the natural ring of a snare when a moongel is used right by the microphone but it can be a serious pain in the ass to mix from time to time.
for everyone questioning this technique, it works fantastic. only applicable to the snare drum though, and the whole reason behind it, is to control the annoying rings, whistles, and clangs different snares make. seeing that a snare is of the hardest drums to tame the sound. no it won't warp your drums, assuming you don't tighten your hoops to stupid tight tensions.
Love your videos man very informative. I really like that your videos cover such a wide variety of musical subjects, keep up the good work. Subbed for sure.
Dave Weckl does something similar but with just one lug, but not as much to ripple the skin. As others have mentioned, I would be worried of long term warping of the shell
When I record a bad bass player, I detune to E, but 6 octaves below standard, then I play the parts in standard tuning after he leaves. Works like a charm and they think it’s magic.
If you want to experiment with something, mic the outside rim of the snare drum maybe 1-2 inches away. I know it sounds counter intuitive however it yields and amazing full spectrum snare tone. Anytime I have played live or recorded I would ask the engineers to humor me and in the end they loved it; of course its possible they were just being non confrontational. Let me know your thoughts if you try it! BTW love your videos and I am a subscriber
Hello Mr Glenn, could you do more videos about drums and drums recordings. Your videos about drums recordings are really useful,I would like to get some more information about it. Also I have few questions that I would like to get answers.
A QUICK TIP THAT I LEARNED A WHILE AGO If you put a dry rag over your snare or toms it will muffle the sound. it deffintley sounds good when you have the snare off
This technique has been around for ever,is even more effective on Toms to give the decending pitch that is often heard. And you won't warp your drum however you will warp your rims.
I don't know if yo havent checked it out but have you considered the Evans Genera heads? I use the HD Genera Dry and it rocks. Its 2 ply with a muting ring attached underneath and has about 20 small holes drilled around the edge. Real fast attack and a gets nice bright tones ecfortlessly. Crank the reso head sky high and you're good. Also, have you used the the Tumebot? I had a Drumdial briefly but I found it didnt really suit me or my kit at the time. The Tunebot turned things around for me though. Just take the to read the manual and don't be afraid to experiment with some of the artist settings. Dennis Chambers kit settings sound super nice. Best kick in my opinion.
Glenn, could you make an episode on the effect of using different kinds of snare-wires on a snare drum. A comparison maybe? (I noticed a rather wide one used by the Masshoff-Drum-Guy) Also, I once recorded with someone demanding to use no snare-wire at all, which actually didn't sound that bad.
Dude, I was doing the phone or wallet muting for getting rid of that crazy ping sound, on my tama 6.5 x 14 snare. I just loosened the bottom two pegs and it sounds way better!
I watched the Mashoff vid too - excellent tecnnique, even if it's a bit tricky to achieve on an 8 lug drum. One thing though, I seem to recall that you would use the very bottom lug exclusively for dialing in the "ring", and the two adjacent lugs just for pitch. Did I get it wrong?
Hey Glenn. I'm in the process of getting my bedroo- I mean, *ahem* RECORDING STUDIO sound treated. I know you use a lot of rockwool type stuff, but I also see some foam and other materials in the studio. What kind of treatment would you recommend me buy first? Later on? Thanks and stay Frickin'!
Why on earth would you even do that to a snare drum? It's supposed to be a bright, open and melodic sounding drum. It's constructed with an even and straight bearing edge so that you get an even and consistent sound. By giving it unbalanced tension, you may as well just have a badly made, wonky drum. Not only that, but it kills the unique character of the drum and sounds more like hitting a dustbin.
I found that running video at the same time you commented on it :-) I have tried the technique a few times for live use with some horrible backline snare drums I have had to mix out on the road over the past few months. It's saved the show for me. Nothing kills a mix worse than shitty sounding drums. The ripples freak the drummer out and he wants to tune them out all the time. ;-) Like I always say, mix with your ears not your eyes. Or in the drummers case listen with your ears not your eyes ;-)
Glenn I love all of your videos, especially the ones focusing on drum tones. I was wondering if you actually had a favorite type of snare that you prefer recording more than others.
Hey Glenn, I know you're pretty keen on the Drum Dial for drum tuning but I was wondering if you've ever used the Evan's Tune-Bot Frequency Drum Tuner? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
