When a Book is DOA: Dead Genres in Publishing

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You asked for an in-depth video on dead genres in traditional publishing, so I'm doing a deep dive. I'm talking about dead genres, dead tropes, dead vs. longshot, things that have never taken off in YA, market saturation, and what to do if you have a "dead" book.
Jump to 29:00 to learn what to do if you want to write a "dead" book, or if you have one.
Yes, it's a long one. Sorry, not sorry.
TIMESTAMPS
01:59 What is a dead genre?
03:56 Dead genres vs. dead tropes
06:38 Market saturation in YA
09:11 Longhost vs. dead
11:15 Things coming back... different
14:08 Tropes that have never sold well
20:52 Listen to agents
21:53 Evergreen genres
24:08 Famous authors have different rules
26:35 Predicting trends
29:17 If you want to write in a dead genre/a longshot
33:05 If you wrote a dead book
34:57 Self-publishing
38:34 MOVE ON from dead books!!!
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5 сен 2019

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Комментарии : 1,5 тыс.

@AlexaDonne 4 года назад

TIMESTAMPS b/c apparently no one checks the description box 01:59 What is a dead genre? 03:56 Dead genres vs. dead tropes 06:38 Market saturation in YA 09:11 Longhost vs. dead 11:15 Things coming back... different 14:08 Tropes that have never sold well 20:52 Listen to agents 21:53 Evergreen genres 24:08 Famous authors have different rules 26:35 Predicting trends 29:17 If you want to write in a dead genre/a longshot 33:05 If you wrote a dead book 34:57 Self-publishing 38:34 MOVE ON from dead books!!!

@frutigerlol 4 года назад

And for mobile users

@Ashwin-oq1xt 4 года назад

Haha

@alexwatson9757 4 года назад

I feel like you just read me. And I'm here for it.

@emilymullen5183 4 года назад

hi! i'm writing a fantasy book that takes place in 2005, would that be considered dead?

@andiward7068 4 года назад

The description time stamps aren't linked.

@amalijavitezovic5500 4 года назад

Sorry, I can't resist making a pun... So, the bottom line is: zombies are dead, vampires are slowly rising from the grave, dystopia is no longer what it used to be, and time travel is history 😂😂😂😂

@totallyanonymousbish9599 4 года назад

Omg😂😂

@animerlon 4 года назад

😂😂😂

@batorsagandszerelem4474 4 года назад

damn... pun overload 😂😂

@celinak5062 4 года назад

Punny

@KreativeHogwartsLegacyGUIDES 4 года назад

lol the puns!

@WannabeWriter100 4 года назад

"The market can shift at anytime." This is definitely something to keep in mind. J.K. Rowling was told Harry Potter wouldn't sell well because fantasy children novels weren't big back then. Definitely keep an eye on the market but remember that it is constantly changing.

@UltimateKyuubiFox 4 года назад

JK Rowling MADE the market change because a publishing rep let his daughter read the manuscript and his daughter loved it so much the publishing house decided to give it a go. Sometimes a story just needs to be so fucking good that a publisher will be willing to risk it.

@Allan_aka_RocKITEman 4 года назад

It is NOT _SCHMOOZING,_ it is _NETWORKING._ 😁😁😁

@madsniperD 4 года назад

@javier navarro Right, trying to write to market in trade publishing is impossible. Just write something that's crazy entertaining.

@properantagonist Год назад

@@UltimateKyuubiFox Yeah, but after that initial change there is always a hype period for that genre, so it's not a one-time thing and the genre gains some traction as a whole for a while

@tonisumblin2719 5 месяцев назад

@@UltimateKyuubiFoxhad that daughter not read the book… We’d have never heard of JK Rowling.

@jkwonsmiff 4 года назад

When you said "court-based fantasy" I thought about a fantasy Law & Order lmfao

@fairycat23 4 года назад

I'm in favor of that.

@shellystar 4 года назад

Now that would be interesting!

@FaithMurri 4 года назад

Honestly, I'd read that lol

@Ashwin-oq1xt 4 года назад

What is court based fantasy then. I thought it was law and order court

@jkwonsmiff 4 года назад

@@Ashwin-oq1xt I'm pretty sure it's about kings and queens and that sort of thing...you know, a royal court

@SnowWolfAlpha 4 года назад

So there's no hope for my lesbian werewolf spy thriller?! I'll sit on it.

@sebastiangrey3076 4 года назад

I want to read this

@TBCaine 4 года назад

I mean honestly that would probably sell if promoted properly, and probably under an adult category. It would be an interesting take on spy thrillers though.

@nhmooytis7058 4 года назад

SnowWolfAlpha just change it to a differently abled trans cannibal superhero, no problem.

@virginiafernandes336 4 года назад

i would read that

@tl56kmair 4 года назад

If your lesbian werewolf was a 🦊 I’d read it!

@anactualtemplarknight3246 4 года назад

I'd rather write the book I want to write, in a genre I love, rather than chasing some fad or the latest trend. I'll die poor I guess...

@willowcollin1229 4 года назад

Agreed.

@rac1equalsbestgame853 4 года назад

I'm currently on whattpad writing what I love. No interest in making money.

@alienspacebat5218 4 года назад

Then don't go through traditional publishing channels. Try indie or digital distribution, if you balance your creative vision with the tastes of a modest but loyal audience you won't have to worry about what's trendy in Current Year.

@d3xm3x 4 года назад

Do both.

@anactualtemplarknight3246 4 года назад

Yeah doing both things seems to be the way to go

@grimreads 4 года назад

Time travel sells in UK because the flagship SF franchise there is Doctor Who, a time travel TV show

@cifge_404 4 года назад

You know what, that does make sense.

@cjboyo 4 года назад

That does make sense. I am trash for Doctor Who

@grimreads 4 года назад

@@cjboyo I feel you, but the last season broke me

@UteChewb 4 года назад

First thing that came to mind was Stephen Baxter's "The Time Ships" which was the official sequel to The Time Machine. But yeah, I'd say DW made the difference.

@grimreads 4 года назад

@@UteChewb there are many amazing time travel stories from Brits. One of my favourites is Behold the Man by Michael Moorcock.

@saoliath5000 4 года назад

steampunk for the most part is largely an aesthetic really. if someone wants to write a story that is "steampunk" they should ask themselves why it is steampunk. is the story reliant on it being steampunk or does it just boil down to mentioning that a lot of things are made of brass. books aren't a visual medium so it needs to go beyond aesthetic.

@ariettej4271 4 года назад

That's good advice! Love me some steampunk but you are absolutely right and I have yet to personally think of a proper steampunk probably for this reason

@annabelcrescibene4257 4 года назад

ariette j Have you read etiquette and espionage? It’s really steampunk. It is like borderline middle grade. So if that’s really not your thing then don’t read it.

@ariettej4271 4 года назад

@Annabel Crescibene: Middle grade actually looks like they have awesome books, tbh. I sometimes peruse the children's wing and am more often times than not drawn to them a lot more than the YA section. Lots of fun, whimsical adventurous stuff which isn't YA's thing (naturally) but I personally find them quite enjoyable. This coming from someone who's in their mid 20's lol Thank you for the suggestion, will do!

@TacticusPrime 4 года назад

The Cinder Spires series is steampunk fantasy and it worked well. But I imagine it sold more on Jim Butcher's name than on the premise.

@infinityryvus 4 года назад

Steampunk is too strong an influence to be used flippantly. Most stories using it are using it because they're anemic to begin with, and the problems only become magnified once the overwhelming flavor of steampunk drowns the plot and characters in a world they're just not living up to.

@carololxd 4 года назад

We all felt attacked at some point in this video

@ThePuppyTurtle 4 года назад

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between not writing something blatantly unoriginal and obsessively avoiding anything that could possibly look at the slightest bit like something oversaturated if you squint at it. If you take every single trope or sub-genre she list in this video as a thing that you can definitely never write any version of, you're not going to be able to write any speculative fiction at all.

@casono 4 года назад

I felt attacked at "Its more X-men than Marvel". Jokes aside. The arguement or any being made were summed up at the beginning of the video... Do you want to make something you want to make or do you want to make money? "Make money" here meaning do you want to play it safe and make something you know people are going to read vs do you really not have confidence in being satisfied in actualizing your creation? I could go on longer but my need for ranting would result in more wasted time.

@ThePronounI 4 года назад

I'm still walking away with the delusional mindset that my book will totally be different. 😂

@VictoriaAbernethy 4 года назад

A genre is never dead only over saturated with copy cat works. This video is over opinionated and the opinions are not really true. Take vampires for example, humans have been obsessing with vampire stories since forever; Bram Stokers Dracula to interview with a vampire to Buffy to Twighlight. Over and over. Write good books you love to write the rest will follow.

@melody-tp8go 4 года назад

@@VictoriaAbernethy Not necessarily. Of course there will always be people who love vampire books, but the genre is so extremely over-saturated that neither a reader or publisher will be willing to pick it up. Write what you love, but when you're a very small author, it likely will not takeoff

@jacquiz.6837 4 года назад

“Dead Genre Cemetery: They Don’t Come Back the Same” in theaters Summer 2020

@JanetDax 4 года назад

Sometimes Dead is Better

@rachanara5157 4 года назад

Well would you see 2020 now...

@jamiedamato8220 4 года назад

MORE INDUSTRY TALK PLEASE! this is great, thank you so much. I love content like this that only someone like you could delve into! Not recycling tutorials and stuff we've already seen a lot of, but insight into the publishing world many of us don't have insider access to. Thank you!!

@TomorrowWeLive 4 года назад

Seconded

@Ashwin-oq1xt 4 года назад

Exactly. This is spot on content.

@Ashwin-oq1xt 4 года назад

I didn't have a frigging clue urban fantasy was dead.

@Janessarose96 4 года назад

I agree! This is what actually helps those of us burning to come into this profession!!

@davidprosper3460 4 года назад

I'm glad you didn't mention my genre: anthropomorphic rabbits fleeing a dying warren.

@jess-zo5hl 4 года назад

Specific

@cifge_404 4 года назад

What in Nayru's name

@hopetikvah4906 4 года назад

Watership Down?

@petersmith3061 4 года назад

A friend traditional published zombie rabbits in a horror anthology if thats any help

@zukoher 4 года назад

Thylali

@lizbug27 4 года назад

*holding breath in dread as I listen for my genre to be named*

@livmilesparanormalromanceb6891 4 года назад

"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead." - Miracle Max

@adolphaselrah9506 4 года назад

Liv Miles Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.

@livmilesparanormalromanceb6891 4 года назад

@@adolphaselrah9506 And what's that? 😍😍😍

@adolphaselrah9506 4 года назад

Liv Miles Go through his clothes and look for loose change.

@geraldfrost4710 4 года назад

@@livmilesparanormalromanceb6891 how can anyone not know this! Most books made into movies; Stephen king. And who adapted the most books into movie scripts? The guy who wrote Miracle Max in The Princess Bride. "Now go away or I'll call the Brute Squad!" "I'm on the Brute Squad." Max, looking up, "You Are the Brute Squad!"

@EDDIELANE 4 года назад

@@geraldfrost4710 I’m on the Brute Squad Max: You ARE the Brute Squad!

@RonieDoll 4 года назад

So! Publishers didn't learn from the lessons learned from Game Developers. Don't oversaturation, provide quality not quantity, bring new mechanics and diverse design.

@annoyingkid48 4 года назад

Did game devs really *learn* that, though, or did they just prove the point?

@akl2k7 4 года назад

@@annoyingkid48 I'd say AAA definitely proves the point. Especially Ubisoft and EA

@ericspencer8093 4 года назад

I'm genuinely surprised that publishers still exist.

@oscara8454 4 года назад

Publishers have been doing this for a long time. If anything the game developers haven't learned from the publishers.

@surprisedchar2458 4 года назад

Game devs still don’t get it.

@aff77141 4 года назад

"But if you hide it behind other tropes--" "Get rid of the couches! We can't let people know that we SIT"

@cifge_404 4 года назад

I think what she meant was, the trope is "hidden behind other tropes" as in that trope you want to write is not front-and-center, so instead of putting your couch in the middle of the room, move it to the side and put a table and some nice statues in the middle. 😂

@aff77141 4 года назад

@@cifge_404 I think what I meant was A Joke, but thank u

@cifge_404 4 года назад

@@aff77141 I got the joke. I wanted to make a metaphor out of it, so I did.

@aff77141 4 года назад

@@cifge_404 can never be sure on the internet with strangers 🤷‍♂️ i did say thanks at least 😂

@cifge_404 4 года назад

@@aff77141 that is true lol

@erin9868 4 года назад

I'm going to write a portal fantasy dystopian with vampire-werewolf hybrids that have a terminal illness that causes them to rise from the dead. And it's going to a sci fi-western. And it's all a dream. And there's a love triangle. No. Reverse harem. Yeah. So that's, like, a winner, right?

@bronxlords 4 года назад

Your funny

@geraldfrost4710 4 года назад

Can you put it in the past, in an exotic location? I think that would help. And make your main character a vegetarian. "It's not hard to be a vegetarian by day. What's hard is not being a humanitarian during the full moon!" I know it's been done before, but put your personal spin on it...

@binkao2938 4 года назад

What on earth is a reverse harem? The main character being one of the harem courtesans? The main character having everyone running away from them? I’m so confused lol

@ejedwards988 4 года назад

I would have to read that

@apocalypso3427 4 года назад

Don’t forget to add steampunk and elemental magic!

@joefriendly2566 4 года назад

You mentioned "Evergreen Categories" like Fantasy. Have you thought about making a video on what you would consider "Evergreen Categories" or Genres, and why? I'm sure it's a basic idea to you However, I for one would love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

@lesteryaytrippy7282 3 года назад

What's Evergreen Categories?

@lauraslade5308 Год назад

@@lesteryaytrippy7282 categories that are always relevant, I think

@thehinduskakid 4 года назад

title suggestion: dead genres tell no tales :P

@jimkaragkounis4750 4 года назад

Lindsay Ellis did that lol

@thehinduskakid 4 года назад

@@jimkaragkounis4750 my bad everyone. I had no idea someone got to it first!

@Pajali 4 года назад

thehinduskakid To be fair, it was about pirate movies (and their improbable resurrection with Pirates of the Caribbean), so it’s a different context.

@pauljessup2647 4 года назад

even better- dead genre sells no tales hah

@pancakeofdestiny 4 года назад

@thehinduskakid love your username, and very amused you accidentally stumbled upon the title of a Lindsay Ellis video

@allyji96 4 года назад

When I heard "elemental magic", I felt kinda attacked 😂

@TheArtsy_ 4 года назад

Same! My story has elemental magic and now I'm broken hearted

@Cachalyce 4 года назад

Well, i think it also depends on your type of elemental magic. I'll be honest: when I hear the term elemental magic, I think of Avatar the last Airbender and thus fire, air, water and earth, sometimes with a few additional elements. Light/dark is pretty common, so an elemental system containing these wil also remind me of over-used tropes that I'm tired of. You know what elemental magic system got me? The one from the show the dragon prince. It may have some themes in common with the "classic-four" elemental magic system, but there are also some obvious differences: creating lightning for example is not a part of sun-magic (mostly comparable to fire), but of sky-magic (otherwise comparable to air). So changing the names of your elements and change some associated things because of that can lead to systems that feel completely different. If you haven't already, I would totally recommend looking into the dragon prince (and if it are only theory/explanation vids here on yt), because one of its creators is Aaron Ehasz, who interestingly also was head writer for the at least first two seasons of ATLA. I can't prognose how such a system that feels so incredible different to what I would expect of the term elemental magic would do in the US because I'm from europe, but at least for me it would have more of a chance that I'll read it.

@allyji96 4 года назад

@@Cachalyce I think mine is pretty original, not necessarily in the sense of variety of elements etc. but in the sense of mythology behind it. I created a whole new mythology and I'm not saying it's super unique or anything, it's just not something I heard of. My comment was just for fun btw, it wasn't like "oh, I'm unoriginal, thus I need help" but still thanks for recommendation, will surely read it!

@trevl8955 4 года назад

Oh grow up!

@SamGlaze 4 года назад

Trev L says the guy randomly attacking people in RU-vid comment sections...

@angelxxsin 4 года назад

Such a huge topic that could easily be made into multiple videos but you did a great job covering most aspects of it. I feel like a lot of people are secretly afraid of industry talk because of how it may shoot down their dreams, but if the goal is to seriously get a deal or a readership, it pays to keep your ear to the ground. I'm a marketing professional so it's already in me to check for trends and listen to what people are saying. I feel like a good way to think about this is to always, ALWAYS know your audience: who they are, where they are, and what they want, which is another way of saying know your market/potential readers. It's not about chasing trends, which is always dicey, but about understanding your place in the industry and finding your own opportunities and strengths.

@pumpkinpatch5 4 года назад

Basically, write the book you want to write and feel satisfied or, become really wrapped up in the, quite frankly, over-inflated publishing markets. Writing shouldn’t be like the music industry, but here we are.

@surprisedchar2458 4 года назад

But like the music industry, the internet has given a much needed edge to indie scenes.

@Eleni_Datsika 4 года назад

DOA = Dead On Arrival, in case someone wonders. :)

@dellarosa1716 4 года назад

Yes, thank you.

@MsPandachen 4 года назад

Thank you ☺️ For me it means Dead or Alive 😅

@cifge_404 4 года назад

Yes, thank you! I was wondering.

@Eleni_Datsika 4 года назад

@@cifge_404 You're welcome.

@ScaleHunt 4 года назад

Thanks

@corycianangel6321 4 года назад

I think I understand a bit why the superhero genre doesn't usually work well with YA. Usually, superheroes are much more associated with comic books. In comic books, we usually see the action that the superhero & supervillain does. But if you put them in a novel that has little to no pictures, it's very hard to imagine the action and the impact of the action.

@amy-suewisniewski6451 4 года назад

My prediction for future trends is the thriller YA high will continue for a bit before it slows down again, and then I think we will see a resurgence in both paranormal and sci-fi, with a sort of Stranger Things-esque vibe to it. That sort of Mystery, Nancy-Drew meets the twilight zone.

@binkao2938 4 года назад

Oh I hope for that!! Sounds like stuff I’d like to read :)

@galaxylucia1898 4 года назад

@@binkao2938 Same!!

@booksvsmovies 4 года назад

My big prediction for dystopia's return to YA will be that it'll look more like The Handmaid's Tale than The Hunger Games. After the release of the Hulu series adult literary spec-fic started pumping out Handmaid's Tale look alikes. Think The Power by Naomi Alderman and Red Clocks by Leni Zumas. I honestly think we're getting a lot of sleeper dystopians leaning more on their contemporary with a sprinkle of magic elements than their dystopian ones. If there are any tentpoles for this new subgenre in YA I think it will be Girls With Sharp Sticks by Adrian Young, Wilder Girls by Rory Power, and Sawkill Girls by Claire Legrande. Their not like dystopian we've seen before and they're so unlike 2012 era YA dystopians that publishers wouldn't even think to market it like that but their bring that genre back.

@JohnBradford14 4 года назад

My prediction is that dystopian fiction will sort of revert back to it's roots in that it'll be more about the drama of living in a dystopian setting rather than these big action stories of plucky twenty somethings leading uprisings.

@LaytonKnightt 4 года назад

I agree! I just bought a newish book the other day called “Vox.” It was written in two months and they put a line on the top of the cover about how similar it is to the Handmaid’s Tale.

@annoyingkid48 4 года назад

Considering Handmaid’s Tale is an adult dystopian novel, not YA, I wonder if this would actually be something that would be brought into the YA arena. I trend towards adult fiction over YA, myself, but I think if more sedate themes were brought into YA genres, that could only be a good thing.

@lazydaysandbooks183 4 года назад

@Aaron Elmore Battle Ground by Rachel Cherchur is a post brexit ya dystopia that i've recently heard about so you're getting it haha

@cjboyo 4 года назад

That's my thought too. I think as gen Z hits their YA phase we're craving interesting, better researched, and more realistic stories

@myartchannel8205 4 года назад

My issue is that existing genres are overly broad and not specific enough. Even within dystopia, I'm left to ask, OK what kind of dystopia? There are as many dystopias are there are flavors of apples. Often to me genres are used as buzzwords, rather than what your book is actually about. Dystopia doesn't really tell me anything.

@Deelusi 4 года назад

So basically, if you're done with your book, just be good at pitching? So internet. I'm going to pitch a book with 2 words. Gay pirates.

@galaxylucia1898 4 года назад

YES!

@Rikku147 4 года назад

Sold.

@mzcyberbat 3 года назад

Yes!!!!

@lemonwater1594 3 года назад

Sold

@none_i5316 3 года назад

Here's my money

@kiterafrey 4 года назад

It’s always a cycle of over saturation. Example: Vampires ruled the early 90s (Anne Rice, TVD books etc) but then they came back in the mid to late 2000’s. So likely they’ll come back again in this decade or next for a flash. Vampire is a great example because they’ve had multiple resurgence in various genres over the hundreds of years.

@belletoro3100 4 года назад

I have MAJOR FATIGUE WITH: "Sister" "Mother" "Daughter" "Wife" "Girl" titled books. PLEASE STOP NO, publishers, they are NOT the next Gone GIRL

@dellamcewen5470 4 года назад

My book title: A Girls Wife and her Daughters Sister 😂

@Allan_aka_RocKITEman 4 года назад

@@dellamcewen5470 *_"I'm your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."_** -- SPACEBALLS [1987]*

@geraldfrost4710 4 года назад

@@Allan_aka_RocKITEman "And what does that make us?" "Absolutely nothing!"

@BenefitCounterbench 4 года назад

I'm fed up with "rose" or "thorns" titled books. Eww.

@vanimaduray5473 4 года назад

YES! I'm tired of every WWII book with a female protagonist being someone's wife/sister or a girl. It's annoying. Same goes for the thriller genre too.

@craigreeves5465 4 года назад

This is the reason I love self-published books and authors. Despite the occasional typos and mispellings, it's regular people being themselves and telling the stories they want to tell with no middle men telling them "this" or "that" won't work.

@sicilyny5375 2 года назад

Yes..true..but the majority of them ... are really really poor writing, terrible English....tremendously guilty of English offences.. and How the hell is this even out there??? People have forgotten what a well written book is like. Go back to the masters...please.. and see the crap out there..ugh

@jenniferponzini2433 4 года назад

So sounds to me like it's the editors/publishers need to stop hyper-focusing, not that the writers need to stop writing what they love. If the editors just keep their eyes open for a good book vs popular trends they created or creating the trends they are in the mood to sell, then good writers will always stand a chance of being published.

@AbbyGoldsmith 3 года назад

I so agree. But that is not the reality of how they work. They are afraid to take risks.

@fkdjdjcmckdjdjf3728 3 года назад

okay, but right now, they do hyper-focus. publishers are open for good books but they are careful, like Harry Potter being rejected due to its length and genre. she's not in a position to change the industry. she's telling her viewers that they will not succeed with a plain old book in a dead genre.

@jenniferponzini2433 3 года назад

@@fkdjdjcmckdjdjf3728 I obviously understand what she is telling her viewers. I did watch the video. I’m just saying it doesn’t HAVE to be that way.

@sicilyny5375 2 года назад

It seems the " trend" lately... No cares whatsoever to talent. Whatever crap written, if it sells.. yay!!!!

@matthewakian2 4 года назад

18:00 superheroes has always been a more visual medium.

@BenefitCounterbench 4 года назад

Yepp, that's why comic books are the best: good visuals and good stories, basically 2in1.

@alanpennie8013 4 года назад

Exactly. No reason not to have superheroes in your story but probably best kept in the margins of it.

@magicalgirl4 4 года назад

Sucks if you’re unable to draw though. You have a story you can write, but actually achieving the visuals? No can do

@bigbawlzlebowski8886 2 года назад

@@magicalgirl4 higher an artist.

@LethallxVanity 4 года назад

I’m an adult, I don’t write books or even read too much if I’m to be really honest with myself (except for the news), but I found this video incredibly interesting and it made me want to read for pleasure again. I don’t know what half the things you were talking about mean, but you made me want to find out. Great video!

@myonnareads 4 года назад

as someone who’s just a reader, this video was so intriguing to watch and i learned so much

@christine2931 4 года назад

When I was 16 (2000-2001) I was writing a Anne Rice Vampires meets Lifetime Movie type book. Everyone told me that it would never sell. That no one wanted wanted a book where a teenage human falls for a vampire, especially if they end up having a baby (or twins where one is human and one is a vampire) . Yeah, don't listen to people because within 4-5 years, Twilight happened! I could only imagine how my life would be if I had beat Twilight to publishing.

@OcarinaSapphr- 4 года назад

Chrissy's Soul I had a semi-similar concept... & yep, Twilight blew up, which made me feel a bit defeated, given how insanely popular it was - I moved on to other stuff, or more precisely, shifted between a couple of WiPs I had, but settled with *deep breath* a time-travel series- then Outlander happened... I’m still working on it, though- because I’ve been working on this damn series since like 2003!

@AbbyGoldsmith 3 года назад

Twilight was such a fluke, though. I heard it went to a newbie assistant at the agency who hadn't heard the rules, and so instead of automatically rejecting the book due to its length (it was well over YA genre requirements), she read it. And passed it along to her senior agent.

@stevstring 4 года назад

Wow. Tough love seems to be your superpower. I appreciate the info because there is so much I don’t know. So, thanks for the heads-up about this stuff.

@j.oan.n.e 4 года назад

hey alexa this has helped me out a lot! a video idea could be 'how to reinvent outdated tropes and sub-genres to fit the modern market'!

@selinas1600 4 года назад

All the genres you listed for "never will get published" are so popular in Germany 😂 (Except for Western)

@b3h8t1n 4 года назад

Selina Schorr I have a chance! 😅 I need to brush up on my German

@OriginalAivien 4 года назад

Examples?

@selinas1600 4 года назад

@@OriginalAivien New Adult is one of the most popular genres we have. One book would be Begin Again by Mona Kasten

@OriginalAivien 4 года назад

@@selinas1600 I'm German myself and can't confirm that statement. The opposite: NA doesn't seem to have really arrived here yet. Even on the self-pub side it's treated like a stepchild.

@selinas1600 4 года назад

@@OriginalAivien There is LYX, one of the newest publishers but also one of the most successful

@helgar3893 4 года назад

"These books won't sell because there are too ~many of them on the market." "These books won't sell because there are too ~few of them in the market." "These are dead as a doorknob genres." (5 second later) "That are coming back!" "These never sell because they aren't that popular and never will be. Except, well, the one that did!" LOL. My head is spinning.

@UltimateKyuubiFox 4 года назад

Just write a good book and look for a traditional indie.

@skyt5264 4 года назад

Basically, genres are dead until a publisher takes a chance and then the market gets full of a genre. Then people move on. It almost cycles through the genres.

@madsniperD 4 года назад

Don't give this too much weight. There's always a fresh take to be had with any trope.

@Journey_Awaits 2 года назад

Basically everyone cares only about one thing until something unique comes along then everyone starts copying that and it becomes the only thing everyone cares about and repeat, much like WW2 shooters in the 90s

@suijin25 4 года назад

I'm a cyberpunk writer, so yeah, yeah. Still keeping the hope alive.

@gazuki1352 4 года назад

Cyberpunk 2077 might help that. Like Witcher 3 did with fantasy.

@ASMR_libby 4 года назад

My WIP is cyberpunk and I'm afraid I'm watching our genre being murdered before our eyes.

@misaoce3423 4 года назад

I'm waiting to cyberpunk to be the next GIANT thing, it's so difficult to find material in my language (Spanish) I read English works without a problem, but I would love to share my love for this genre work other friends.

@Yora21 4 года назад

When Sword & Sorcery comes back, I'll be there, ready to strike. S&S has been dead since the 80s.

@BenefitCounterbench 4 года назад

My story includes sci-fi, thriller, urban fantasy, dystopia, cyberpunk, and steampunk. Well, fuck.

@anjar6483 4 года назад

Wow this makes me feel good about my superhero manuscript...

@benmcelwain5301 4 года назад

Try MCing the villain.

@ASMR_libby 4 года назад

She's talking about YA tho. A manuscript is a different category. And comic books never went away. If you've targeted the YA market it's not too late to pivot it towards the categories where super heroes and comic books are successful. Or you could swap out superpowers for magic powers, tweak the setting and voila it is now a fantasy novel.

@giuf175 4 года назад

It's not her job to make you feel good.

@karkatvantas9557 4 года назад

@@ASMR_libby ... A manuscript is any unpublished book, dude.

@annoyingkid48 4 года назад

Just *insert seventeen things that would force you to change your entire novel so it would sell well in today’s publishing market*, and you’ll be fine.

@TranslationsRussian 4 года назад

Rule No. 1 Already be an established, famous author if you want to become an an established, famous author, otherwise you will never become an established, famous author Rule No. 2. See above

@geraldfrost4710 4 года назад

"the average fast food worker makes more than the average writer." If you choose security over passion and creativity, why are you watching videos like this?

@rchloe-wk3rp 4 года назад

Feels that way, doesn't it?

@Ashestoashesjc 3 года назад

Which is not what she says at all. Merely that if you're a famous, established author, what's popular and what the market's hungry for are of less importance to you.

@Patch303030 4 года назад

His Dark Materials has a very steampunk aesthetic.

@Thagomizer 4 года назад

More like gaslamp fantasy.

@tulkdog 4 года назад

I think the U.K. Being more open to YA Sci-fi may have something to do with Dr Who

@SemicolonExpected 4 года назад

I like how the green glare in your glasses match your highlight eyeshadow in your inner eye corner

@LaytonKnightt 4 года назад

I think many of us have wondered how long it’ll be before vampire lit can confidently return to the market.

@jessi4894 4 года назад

If vampire lit makes a comeback, because it always does, I would like to see a remix of Anne Rice style vampires. You know, the actual scary kind.

@Voltaire619 4 года назад

Jessi Walling God I love Anne Rice! I really wish writers would’ve stuck to the more sinister, predatory vampires.

@Jaden-lv7kx 4 года назад

I think we should just accept its time in the sun is over.

@dahvable 4 года назад

@@jessi4894 I've been working on a vampire series for the past 10 years...the extra scary kind

@claremiller9979 4 года назад

This is very interesting, thanks for taking the time as always to give us your hot takes and insider info Alexa. The business of any art form is fascinating to me, from books to film

@CoffeeQueen03 4 года назад

Thank you for everything Alexa!!! Your always there when I need you, can't wait to pick your brain and learn from you in yet another vid!💜

@phadenswandemil4345 4 года назад

While watching your video I have realised: 1. I, as an aspiring writer, know waaayyy too little about publishing and "the industry" 2. Apparently I am very out of touch with the current YA trends, even though couple years back I was part of its core demographic. Damn I'm getting old.

@SebastianSeanCrow 4 года назад

10:22 throughout my life I’ve noticed with things like witches, vampires, zombies, ghosts, and werewolves, it’s always been an up and down situation. One day its all witches and wizards, then almost nothing, then vampires, etc etc. Or one book with those gets popular and a movie release so bestsellers that have been going on longer get their TV adaptations with plenty of source material, etc.

@calypso_lazuli 4 года назад

I just love how real you are yet compassionate at the same time... It’s understandable how tropes and genres can die or become over-saturated. And in such cases if someone happened to already write a book in that genre/trope, then it’s like “OMG I failed!!! I can’t get it published!!” It truly is devastating to an aspiring author, and you convey this with “tough love” and get right to the point but at the same time you give people hope and are compassionate about the situation at the same time. Just thought I’d say that we do notice the work you put into the videos you put out , we do pay attention closely ❤️💜🧡💚💙

@AuthorAllisonAldridge 4 года назад

Great video Alexa! Love that you talked about urban fantasy because I’ve been telling everyone that paranormal and urban fantasy is going to make a come back soon for years. And I’m glad I’m not just crazy screaming about insane ideas😂 as a lover and writer of urban fantasy I am so glad it’s making a slight comeback!

@Nikkimond 4 года назад

Brandon Sanderson's The Reckoners is a superhero/supervillain trilogy, but Sanderson already broke in years before with other books.

@SmileyGamer13 4 года назад

Nikkimond also he has a name brand. Anything he posts will sell, he could write whatever and be a best seller.

@rustyhodge5469 4 года назад

When she mentioned a famous author published by Tor, I’m pretty sure she meant this series

@BionAvastar3000 4 года назад

Steampunk is super popular in Anime. Also if Atlantis does get remade, and it's good, maybe the market will be more accepting

@matthewjoy475 4 года назад

Isn't Atlantis more diesel-punk than Steampunk?

@basicperson8011 4 года назад

@@matthewjoy475 whats the difference

@matthewjoy475 4 года назад

@@basicperson8011 what's the primary source of power for the tech? If it's steam, it's steampunk, and is generally steeped in Victorian Era trappings. If it's diesel engines, it's dieselpunk and generally steeped in early 20th century post-industrial Era garb and culture.

@austincde 4 года назад

This comment reminded me of "Kabaneri", both zombie and steampunk! & I dislike both genres but love that series specifically lol

@Katyayay 4 года назад

Thank you so much! I was one of the people asking you about making this video lol, so I honestly appreciate the amount of research you did. Your experience in the industry is invaluable to wannabe-authors like me

@EvieReddingWrites 4 года назад

So glad I write Adult novels 😅 Here’s to hoping NA in all forms becomes a thing in traditional publishing 💖

@nootnewt9323 4 года назад

I’ve been hoping for years but it doesn’t seem to be. “NA” is either rolled into YA (so we get those weird smutty young adult novels) or they’re shuffled in with adult lit. I do hope to see more college settings soon with Leigh Bardugo’s new book coming out next month. One thing that bothered me when I was in college was the lack of college lit that wasn’t a contemporary romance.

@EvieReddingWrites 4 года назад

ccbib same here. Ah well...I’ll do the self publishing thing if the market still isn’t there by the time I write my NA book about cerebral palsy

@himomimfamous 4 года назад

What’s NA?

@EvieReddingWrites 4 года назад

Hazar Younis it’s an age category standing for New Adult.

@Yora21 4 года назад

I like regular adult.

@mushroomc0re 4 года назад

you can pry my ya superhero wip out of my cold dead hands

@Artraive 4 года назад

Thanks for another helpful video, Alexa 😊 I'm happy any of my book ideas or the one I'm working on is not in any of these dead genres and tropes. Wish you a great weekend!

@booklover466 4 года назад

😂😂 I’m not an author but I feel attacked 😂😂 but honestly, it’s so true because as a reader these are genres I avoid, especially dystopian 😬 and if you have a character that is the chosen one, I’m not touching your book with ten foot pole. Also it’s time to throw the whole “love triangle” trope away

@bradsmith4875 4 года назад

Thw whole love Triangle thing seems like something one or two writers did well and others attempted to duplicate. It's not fresh or unique anymore.

@TM-ng2bz 4 года назад

I actually think I still would read a story about a chosen one. I also think that it's something that has been around for ages (in mythology etc) and probably will always be somehow around for as long as humans keep telling stories.

@surprisedchar2458 4 года назад

Careful, you’ll summon Terrible Writing Advice is you threaten to throw away his precious romance delta.

@softnpure 4 года назад

@@surprisedchar2458 He sure loves his Love Triangles™

@jasonyntig717 4 года назад

However my book is not about a chosen one. It’s rather the other way around. My MC respond to a call, which is very different from the whole prophecy or chosen one thing. Because when it revolves on the prophecy, it just meant to be, it’s destined to happen at some point in the story, while if your respond to call, you can just say yes, and the story starts, or no, and then nothing will ever happen. What great about the call trope (Which I am calling) is the great reason of the MC why he or she respond to it.

@BestsellingAuthorLisaDaily 4 года назад

Great topic! One of the things that continually happens in publishing is that "dead" genres tend to come back around. I think you have to keep writing what you love.

@bogunicorn 4 года назад

I really like these longer conversational videos. I like this topic a lot, but I also just like when it's clear that you have an outline but you're not super scripted like some other videos. Your personality comes through stronger, even if you're a bit more acerbic, and it's really endearing.

@_vexilee 4 года назад

I just want to say thank you for giving us this insight into the publishing industry - as an aspiring author I really love the new perspectives you give. Please keep doing what you do, it's amazing

@captainleefy 4 года назад

Honestly, I don’t care about whether or not a genre is “dead.” A book of a “dead” genre won’t sell as easy, yes, but I’d rather write the book of my dreams than chase around what’s popular. Enjoy your dream job and write what you’ve always wanted or gag as you write your least favourite genre and make a bit of cash? Which would you choose?

@mysteriiis 4 года назад

Genres can be mixed with other genres. Preferred tropes can be hidden behind currently popular tropes. And, most importantly, a 'job' is something that provides a consistent income. Otherwise, its a hobby. I for one have hobbies. I like painting miniatures. I like horror movies; many featuring stories that aren't of interest to anyone outside the genre. But I want to get paid to write, so I can spend all my time writing. And not have to worry about a day job. Which is the important bit. Writing for hours without nonsense getting in the way. That means learning how to play to the markets. At worst you might have to start by giving the people what they want right now. Then, once you've earned their trust, show them what you want. And it is a matter of earning. Readers paying attention to your outside-the-box ideas is a privilege, not a right. And presuming otherwise is in no way some high minded artistic statement.

@captainleefy 4 года назад

@mysteriiis I understand what you're saying. I am currently writing a fantasy novel and I'm seeing how that turns out before doing otherwise.

@mzcyberbat 3 года назад

Do the second to get the money and "fame" then show the world what you have.

@retroroy8720 3 года назад

I like a lot of these dead genres and dead tropes, which is why I'm probably going to self-publish. I write for enjoyment, not for employment and if I make a bit of extra change on the side, well that's cool too.

@jessiecutie1709 4 года назад

This was a very interesting video, I definitely learned a lot. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us! 😊

@spiritstig827 4 года назад

"I don't have the time to tell you all the time!" made me crack up. A very interesting video, it's so refreshing and nice to get industry information from someone who (at least that's the impression I get) is really passionate about writing and the industry. I always enjoy watching your videos, so thank you for keeping making content :)

@samhayes-astrion 4 года назад

This is why I'm going to self publish my debut novel. The overarching series is science-fantasy mystery about the dangers of crossovers while also deconstructing those same genres (in particular, time travel, because this entire thing started as time travel many eons ago but i decided i hated time travel and now i destroy it), but the first book is a _primarily_ urban fantasy setting with notes of what the rest of the series will offer throughout. I'm going to self-publish this series not just because I want a lot of control over it (I'm too attached to the setting and especially characters to forsake the rights to just any company), but also because my series, being about _crossovers_ , will encompass several kinds of genres from all over. It wouldn't be a very thrilling crossover if it was just two flavors of science fiction. Some might say that sounds like a bad idea, and that's fine. I think its pretty crazy too. But I believe in myself. (:

@dylanwickersham5610 4 года назад

Thank you for the insight! It was nice to have a window into the more business oriented facets of genre. Also quick sidebar, as a former theatre kid I'm ridiculously excited for that Phantom retelling!

@colleenherrera 3 года назад

I can't decide if i'm getting depressed, or becoming more informed. Maybe both.

@beecaro4412 4 года назад

this is so interesting! thanks for taking the time to get this video out!

@TacticusPrime 4 года назад

I wish we could get actual numbers here. Like, the numbers of books moved in different genres per week or month or something.

@AbbyGoldsmith 3 года назад

Numbers are hard to come by. But the sheer volume of new books being published is increasing across the board. www.bbc.com/news/business-54004162

@savannahkrystall2698 4 года назад

I felt bad when you were talking about tropes that have never sold well and they’re like... all ones I’ve considered writing in

@th_0ru 4 года назад

My first fear going into this video: my book is DOA Having watched the whole video: perfect video as always from Alexa, and happy to know that I wrote a book in an evergreen genre. I'll keep trying, keep querying. Thank you Alexa :D

@vivianaioan 4 года назад

Nice RU-vid-meeting you, Alexa. Watching the video feels like having you over for coffee, or whatever, and letting it untouched. Your presence absorbs me. Many thanks for sharing experience and expertise.

@scallahan5123 4 года назад

Alexa, you are like the grounded, experienced mom with a good balance of tough and soft love of authortube. I found your channel a while back when I was just writing for fun and couldn't fathom it as an actual profession for myself and I'd have to resign myself to some job that I hate. However, I have realized that there is nothing I would rather do than be an author and, with some rationalization from some of my teachers and getting more so into authortube lately, I will do anything u can to achieve that. I don't have many people that I can discuss writing with, so getting into authortube has been really nice. And you, you're like the mom to keep me in line and give it to me straight, but also send me on my way and give me the information I need. I am but a baby writer, and I sincerely thank you for sharing your knowledge ❤️❤️

@campwriter9289 4 года назад

Great advice! I wrote two of ‘those’ books and while I don’t regret them, I realised they probably wouldn’t sell. No book is a waste of time, I leant so much about my process and finding my voice, it was definitely necessary for me to screw up!😅 Now I’m writing a fantasy, it feels right and amazing, I know this is the book I should query, however it is a series which I know might make it a harder sell. So I’m also writing an adult contemporary to increase my chances of becoming agented.

@sd4055 4 года назад

I initially started writing because I enjoyed it. I actually got all the way through with a very prominent literary agent who loved my book, but unfortunately it came when the genre market had become saturated and it didn't get published. Now I'm sitting on just about 8 books and I still write for enjoyment. I have thought about self-publishing because so many amazing authors are tossed aside. Lots of books have made it to the top and depending on what you want out of it, how much work you're willing to put into it, it could work to your advantage. Why have a novel sit and gather dust when you could give it a shot? I'm on the fence about staying with traditional publishing and self-publishing. Right now I"m doing my research and I just may blow off the dust and give it a go again.

@ariana3348 3 года назад

I'm excited to watch this video but 7 seconds in and I am just stunned my your skillful eye-shadow!!! I love it!

@ramsaybaird2828 4 года назад

I never watch 44 minute videos, but you are the exception here. Incredibly valuable information, so thank you for sharing. Also, you strongly remind me of my high school drama teacher and I adore you.

@inubaka13 4 года назад

Thank you for so much advice! I let out several breaths of relief when I realized my two novel drafts don't fall under these categories XD

@MystWonka 4 года назад

"It's more X-Men than Marvel" Girl... Who's gonna tell her lol.

@AlexaDonne 4 года назад

I know that X-Men is bloody Marvel. I meant the difference between the big Marvel superpower movies and the 20th Century Fox X-Men movies. Deal.

@MystWonka 4 года назад

@@AlexaDonne Oh ok, sorry. Though I'm one of the people who don't think the Fox movies, at least the main ones with X-Men on the title, are really that different from the MCU, still usual superhero blockbusters.

@Allan_aka_RocKITEman 4 года назад

@@AlexaDonne >>> I *thought* they were sort-of the same...😝😝😝

@tj843 4 года назад

@@AlexaDonne chill?

@rileyackison4495 4 года назад

To everyone telling her to chill or thinking she overacted. She has done huge amounts of research about the subject and it is likely that if she has used the term before she has probably been corrected over and over. Not hating just suggesting that she probably has a reason.

@Iggystar71 4 года назад

I just stumbled upon this video. I’m not a writer nor do I aspire to be one (I’ll let the talent handle this) and I found this throughly interesting. I was going to jump around the timestamps but listened in total. Also, you’ve given me a few new reading suggestions, including yours. Kudos!!!

@asterismos5451 4 года назад

I'm an aspiring cover designer and I've recently been thinking more about how books often have misleading covers that aim to market the book as a genre other than what it is, so this video is a really neat insight into why that is done! Thank you!

@jackiesanteramo-mead1171 4 года назад

First! Great video 😉 great information! Thanks for making the video! It’s really helpful!

@christopherdiaz851 3 года назад

I love this. I saw the harsh truths of writing for young writers and authors. Paradox: There is not a hierarchy of big-wigs in publishing. However, do not expect to break ground in YA unless you are a proven and celebrated author. Moral of the story: Life is unfair. Pursue your talents and gifts where they lay. Don't give a shit about trends, don't give a shit about people and their inane ever-changing sensitivities. Write for you and you alone.

@VickiAnnBush 4 года назад

Thank you, I found this video extremely interesting and helpful. It answered a few questions and gave me clarity.

@JulianGreystoke 4 года назад

I'm sure you've been asked Million times, do you think you'll self publish either of your "dead" books?

@charlieharrington7526 4 года назад

Amazing video and love the advice. Would love to hear your thoughts on what the newest incarnation of the Vampire genre will be, working on something in that area and am encouraged to hear it's being resurrected.

@KA21601 4 года назад

Everything comes back eventually. Write that book of your dreams, wait for the day it’s best to try to publish

@ReadsReaders 4 года назад

I love this video! Thank you for the advice. I want to write a book in a dead genre and you just gave me a few ways that i could make it work. Also sent this video to my Drag Sister who just finished her first book and I think your advice will be very beneficial to her.

@books_and_bolts3184 4 года назад

I really love these long writing videos, it's hard to hear at first that my paranormal book might not sell but I really value hearing it from someone who knows the market and has been sent to warn me, rather than hearing it from the publishers when I go to them with it. I'll keep writing it, but this video was super helpful, because waiting to query might work and get me where I want to go.

@tely5 4 года назад

"...zombies died as well" at 06:30, lol! It is clear what you meant, but the phrase made just me chuckle!

@carriebrackett6143 4 года назад

Haha! I caught that too! Zombies were already dead! Lol

@LauraOtermat 4 года назад

Can you share some book titles that were in dead genres, but published anyway? I’d be curious to check some out.

@gabbygamez4562 4 года назад

oh my gosh I appreciate this video so much! I'm querying my urban fantasy elemental witch book right now and the best advice I'm going to apply to myself from this video is "hide what your book really is" 😂

@lisavanhusen7483 4 года назад

Thanks for this! I have been writing along and then thought "Oh crap, what if I'm the only one still interested in reading this genre!!" Also, your eye make-up is freaking on point. Serious mermaid vibes.

@Juli6SS 4 года назад

That's such an interesting topic!! I never ever thought about it before 🤓🤔

@GalaxyElfJess 4 года назад

A good example of a genre that will probably become DOA but isn't yet is assassin fantasy, there's been an extreme resurgence of that in the past year or 2 and it keeps getting done over and over. I'm getting reader fatigue with that because at first things were original, but now it usually falls under "assassin school". Examples that blew up are Throne of Glass, Red Sister, Nevernight, etc.