I think of it this way... otherwise remarkably less modified and practically a road-going sportscar is just better of a car than some racing prototypes. Come on, look at the driver sitting there comfortably, while everyone else has to lay on their back and keep looking at the road somehow.
It should be noted that the Continentials just weren't fast tires, especially in cold and wet conditions. The 2016 and 2017 24 Hours of Daytona is another example of just how slow the Continentials were when it got cold and wet (though in 2016, more of that can be attributed to track conditions getting worse throughout qualifying). There was a *noteable* increase in speed when IMSA switched to Michelin for all of the closed-tire classes in 2018. The GTLM teams were also able to do funny things regarding tire modifications (most notably widening the grooves) that were outlawed after 2015.
The Contis where pretty notoriously bad all around. So much so that DP and LMP2 teams called them truck tires. Where as GTLM in this time was open tire, and each OEM was getting custom made tires. That plus the TC systems being being more advanced in the GTLM cars was probably the main reason for the pace they had.
DP's weren't exactly blindingly fast in essence. GTLM cars on average were only about 3-4 seconds slower, and since they had the benefit of mechanical grip, they just stuck better in the wets. When the Prototype class got upped in 2017 with DPi and LMP2, it made it that much harder for the GTLM's to make any headway outside of attrition.
Yeah, those stockcars, I mean DP's were running the same lap times as GTS (O/2 whatever you want to call that class), so GTS was banned the 2nd year DP's around. DP's were such a joke of a class with no carbon fiber allowed or MK2 only the seats. That was nothing prototype about DP's at all. I remember the Daytona 24 was won by GTS Viper, GTS Corvette and a GT Porsche at that point.
@@Eagleracer38x At least the DP's got a power boost in 2014 with their Gen 3 and were actually fast... sort of. But LMP2's brought over from Europe just had way better speed overall that they would win any race and it's why DPi even came to be(plus the USA convergence attempt with the ACO that failed).
The updated DPs with LMP2 grade Aero were fine. Their biggest issues were the flawed front crash structures. A radiator is not really a true crash structure. Their real perk was the cost. It was two DPs for the cost of one LMP2, which meant four DPs for one LMP1.
@@m_cabral That's generous to the price of LMP1 at the time. Non-Hybrid's were still getting expensive, and at that time it was probably a generous 3-5 million for an LMP1-H, which IIRC it was around 150K for an LMP2 at that time.
Petit Le Mans: Porsche GT car wins with pure pace Daytona 24: Porsche GT car wins with reliability LeMans: Porsche GT car wins with *windshield wipers*
That was the one year since 2010 I had to miss going to Petit Le Mans due to a scheduling conflict. Guess it was a good one to miss lol. Also fun fact, along the old pit wall (left side of the track on the front straight) they have banners hung up during PLM of each overall winner throughout the race's history. Seeing that Porsche amongst a sea of prototypes is a hilarious reminder of the shit show that was the 2015 PLM.
GT car should have won Daytona overall in 2004 too. The Doran limped to the finish line. Lucking out from a 3 hour red flag due to heavy rain in the morning. No way the Doran would have made it to the finish if there was even 30 extra minutes of racing.
This was my first PLM, I was there!! I had big ass rain boots on and a full waterproof suit. It was a muddy mess but we still managed to grill out and enjoy the race.
One thing that also played into Porsche having it's success in the weather was due to their Michelin tires being wider than any other tire in the field.
Great video, and a unique view on a crazy race! I was there, camping out of the back of a 350Z for 4 days. Everything I owned at the track was wet, muddy, or both. Tent (inside and out), sleeping bag (inside and out), car (inside and out), everything trashed. But... It was so much fun!!!
I will add too, you’re talking post merger of Grand Am and ALMS into IMSA, meaning Daytona Prototypes and LMP2s. And the LMP2 cars were BoPed heavily to be even with the DP cars…a little too much. The DP cars were usually faster than the LMP2 cars and the DP cars were very old fashioned. One vid I watched talking about the DP cars called them the NASCARs of sports car racing. Tubular frame, not a lot of downforce even for the Gen 3 DPs, and big engines with lots of power and torque. Put up against the Porsche’s advantages from the 911 in treacherous conditions, and ya see why the 911 was able to get the last overall win for a GT car. Unless IMSA somehow gets Trans Am cars in the series and a GT1 style Trans Am TA car wins overall. Which something I find interesting too is that literally 3 months later in qualifying for the Rolex 24, GTLM cars were surpassing the prototypes from it raining heavily.
That cockpit view with the condensation on the windows was terrifying. I shit myself driving in a sim, with clear conditions. I can't even start to imagine what it feels like to drive blind at 200km/h
I wasn't there for either of the rain-outs in 2009 and 2015, but I was there for that rainy final ALMS race in 2013 shown in the footage at the beginning. I friend of mine who was also at the race caught a cold and missed school the next Monday.
This reminds me of a multi-class race I did on Project Cars 2 (Yes, I know it's a video game) But, it was LMP2-3's and the GTE's I was driving the Corvette and an hour and a half or less into the race? I was leading overall I was quite baffled thinking this would NEVER happen in real life but lone-be-hold this video and another of when a GT car won The Rolex 24 Hours Of Daytona is BANANAS! to me that this has happened before in real life but alas stranger things have happened. 🤣
I remember hearing in this year's or last year's WEC Spa 6h that in the middle sector the GTEs were faster than the LMHs because of their higher mechanical grip, so with just the right amount of rain this could be happening again.
Lets not forget about the tyres. Continental had to design one tyre compound for DP and LMP2, two very different types of cars, while Michelin developed tyres for one type of class. Michelin also worked closely with Porsche iirc to develop tyres for the 911 RSR and helped make them more potent in the wet
Luck - or bad luck - and great talent for many teams, but Porsche has always been one of the most feared and respected contenders in racing. History tells no differently. An Nick Tandy is an outstanding champion and Porsche pilot. 😎
Good video! The third driver Richard Lietz from memory didn’t drive during the race or did very little time behind the wheel. Either way he still stood on the podium with Tandy and Pilet.
I think it was the marshall pruett podcast that was discussing this one time and I was completely im shock and didn't believe it happened. Then I saw the race and I'll be damned it actually happened
Its worth noting that the prototypes were on, and I kid you not, used Continentals...which themselves were basically relabeled Hoosiers. And this was the case even in the first year of the DPi. Thankfully, that idiotic practice has long disappeared and basically all the classes use Michelins now.
The tires were the main factor. The Continental Tires that the P class used were no match for the Michelin tires that were custom built for each GTLM manufacturer.
God was the Corvette Daytona Prototype disappointing, as it was basically the old Pontiac Daytona Prototype just with a Corvette front clip, and GM knew they screwed up and had Dallara design an all new Cadillac DPi
And like the 24h of daytona video, it's always the porsche. This complete the circle as the porsche/dauer 962lm GT1 also won overall on le mans, though on a badly disguised group c car
I dont get why people dont like it when a gt car wins over all, Whats wrong with that? I think its means that people can win not just a class win but over all so long as they are a good driver, sportsman, and if they have alittle bit of luck. I think its great incentive for drivers.
The Daytona Prototype format, was the absolute peak, of modern Prototype racing. That format produced some of the greatest endurance racing I've ever seen, full stop. As did the old GTD cars (This was back before they were truly GT3 cars, and they were instead, Somewhere between an old N-GT/GT2 car a 2012 spec GT1/GT3 car, and a GTC/GT4 car. A restricted version of the GTD rulebook raced alongside GT3 cars in the GTA category of the PWC back then as well). I wish that the racing world would get it's head out of its self righteous behind, and get back to what it should be. It's not like it's complicated, or something that's so far out of reach, what the fans, and many of the teams, have been asking for. I thought that LMDh would provide what I was looking for, but honestly it's just another prototype category at this point. Interesting to be sure, but no more or less interesting than the LMP1's were. Honestly, LMP2 was where it was at back then for me. Reminds me more of the racing of old. GT cars aren't really exciting anymore, and prototype racing has lost its luster as well. V6's seem to dominate the top level GT classes, and LMDh seems to have produced prototypes that more resemble LMP1/2 cars than Daytona Prototypes or GTP cars. Don't get me wrong, LMDh's are, VERY cool indeed. But I don't think it was the direction motorsports needed to go in long term. Modern GT racing, well, it speaks for itself, looking at the early 2010's and further back, and comparing that to the modern hellscape, that is low displacement turbocharged GT3 racing across almost all sportscar and touring car series globally. I hate to sound like some old, anti-change, climate denier or something. I really do understand what the ideas behind these changes are, and I would be in support of them if they could even be effective in the first place. But they are both, not actually serving the purposes they are supposed to, and killing motorsports on the whole. Racecars should be racecars, and the racing, should be racing. For as capable as the Ferrari 296 is, they took their V6 sportscar, and dropped into the top class of conventional sportscar racing... But, theu just followed the template they were given... the real issue is that the top class is GT3. The Ferrari 812, or the Lamborghini Aventador, or a Porsche turbo, or a Corvette that doesn't sound like a dollar store Ferrari, or some of Mercedes's insane lineup. Move the AMG GTR up a class and drop in something like the SL. Idk. Maybe I'm just too out of touch. But I miss when racecars were more than _just_ advertising. I know I know. Keeping costs down and respecting the environment. On the subject of environment, that issue is systemic. Consumer sportscars and racecars will not have any significant impact on that situation. Honestly if it would, I'd be the first one in support of it lol, my lungs and I have a lot of history with dangerous environmental practices, I have no qualms with that. And on the subject of costs, the cost to go racing is skyrocketing, and will, regardless of what rulebook you throw at it. There are other solutions to that problem. Short tracks here in the U.S have proven that softening the product to make it cheaper, will just accelerate its demise. I know almost nobody will read my tangent, but, I think racing in the modern era could return to some of its former glory, or at least, the experience of it. I think that the people with the money just have to want it to.
Why is it such a faux pas for this to occur? You mentioned that steps were taken so this wouldn't occur again, but why? Is it really that big of a deal?
Because the majority of management at most manufacturers know nothing about the product, and engineers would have to try explaining to them why they should keep funding the "funny-looking car" when a "regular" one beats it in races.
Just like at Indy the first time cup ran, the race organizer being out there in the fray getting his hands dirty makes me so damn happy. They want a good show and damnit if that means grabbing a shovel and getting the curbing off the track to get back to green flag racing then fuck it I’m here.
