Editorial clarification: in our interpretation, this study shows only a cessation of meta-consciousness (the explicit, metacognitive awareness of what is experienced), not of phenomenal consciousness (the raw experience itself). The two are distinct, as empirical research has shown (e.g. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661302019496 ). Often, the lack of meta-consciousness leads the subject to concluding they had no experience, while in fact phenomenal consciousness was present, even during dreamless sleep (e.g., www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/abstract/S1364-6613(16)30152-8 ). It is impossible to reliably infer the absence of phenomenal consciousness based on subjective reports. This is the case even for general anaesthesia, (see, e.g., “Anesthesia and Consciousness,” by John Kihlstrom and Randall Cork, published in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness, 2007), this being the reason why one of the drugs in the anaesthesia cocktail is meant to prevent the subject from forming memories. All that can be ascertained with confidence is that a subject doesn't _remember_ having been conscious. Ascertaining that one was phenomenally unconscious is equivalent to stating, paradoxically, that one consciously remembers being unconscious. This fundamental ambiguity in subjective reporting is the reason why neuroscientist Nao Tsuchiya has proposed a no-report paradigm for consciousness research (e.g., www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661315002521 ). Clinical psychologists and many neuroscientists use the word 'consciousness' in the sense of meta-consciousness. The cessation of meta-consciousness and/or the absence of memories of consciousness don't contradict idealism at all. If phenomenal consciousness had ceased during meditation, meditators presumably wouldn't know how/when to come back, for, unlike the wearing off of drugs in anaesthesia, here the state is induced by the meditator themselves.
I don't think this is quite correct. For the mediator, it is cessation of both meta-consciousness and phenomenal consciousness. He said it's like being under anesthesia. No perception, not even a sense of time passing. Idealism of a sort is still possible here because, although the world disappears for the mediator, it does not disappear for others. The question of how the mediator knows when to come back might be answered in the fact that they set an intention. Intentions do not need to be continuously monitored in order to bear fruit.
@@markcounseling Well I don't remember, but I'd argue that doesn't mean I wasn't conscious of anything. One of the ingredients of anesthesia is known to affect memory. People also experience loss of memory of events leading up to the anesthesia, but they were conscious at the time. I also don't remember being asleep last night, but I was conscious the entire time (because I would've woke up if a loud noise happened)
@@_WeDontKnow_ You would not wake up no matter what happens if you're properly anesthetized. That indeed is the point of it. Meta-consciousness typically means thinking about or being aware of thought, the self, or awareness itself. It's self-reflective and has content. Phenomenal consciousness typically means experience of the sense fields. Both of these are gone in this state of cessation. I have a feeling, though I'm not sure it's correct, that there is some intent here to save Idealism at the expense of what the interviewee actually said. How are people understanding that phenomenal consciousness remained during cessation? In what way? What phenomena? It's certainly possible that I'm just missing something here; maybe you can help, thanks for trying.
Being a Drukpa monk i was familiar with thukdam, but being a scientist i thought it was crazy until i read the physician reports from the death of the 16th Karmapa who died in Zion, Illinois, and realized it was all true! Had not heard of neruda samapati, not being extremely familiar with Theraveda, so i am SO glad you did this!! Incredible!!
It's so impressive how Ruben can respond to the most difficult and fundamental questions. Thank you both for the interview! Thank you Essentia for providing this brainfood to a wide audience. Also want to mention the extraordinary audio quality which comfortably allows listening for 2+ hours.
This discussion feels sooo smoooth to me. I appreciate perceived synergy between the two of you. Many insights well articulated and accurate. Models presented are already integrated in me. But it's cutting edge of scientifi understanding. I think Ruben would like The Philosophy of Difference I am studying now. I don't have anything against Bernardo's view but some points presented here in contrast resonate with me more. Thank you for participating in my reality. ☺🙏🏻❤
I have had what is termed "out of body experiences" , and my awareness was definitely not inside my body. It became "non-local" so to speak and I was able to "fly" and travel to a specific place and watch what was happening.
Me too. Being going "out of body" since I was a small child, in total awareness, totally conscious. It's very natural and everybody's focus of awareness does this every night when we sleep, it's down to whether you remember doing it once you're back in body. That's the catch.
@@deckofcards87if this were true you could enter people’s houses and see secrets. If this were true you could enter boardroom conversations and buy stocks based on it and get very wealthy
Around 1:25 you are speaking of an ultimate changing reality... I would argue however, that constant change implies a non-changing background; without it, change cannot be detected. This is why concepts like Nirguna Brahman and Maya (or Saguna Brahman) in Hinduism, and 'Buddha Nature' in Buddhism, arise. Thus, an unchanging 'reality' must exist that, through reflection (or 'Maya'), manifests as a co-dependent 'changing reality.' Ultimately, these two aspects are non-dual." The 'changing reality' being an 'appearance' within the 'non-changing' reality. I love this dialogue, btw!!! Brilliant, and insightful!
Outstanding exchange. The leaves are changing in Maryland, i went on a very long walk today, its a beautiful day out again. This exchange synced beautifully with my walk today. Thank you both ☀️🍂❤️✌️
To understand meditation, one must read the source texts. Meditation is a general and confusing term. It does not point to a specific practice. There is no "fundamental way" to meditate. Meditation is a process requiring multiple steps, and in its most basic formulation, those steps are 8. 1. Yama (abstinences) By training directing the will, one gains the ability to gain distance from compulsion and to observe it. This is the first step. Without creating this distance, there can be no meditation. 2. Niyama (observances) By following the guidelines of cleanliness, contentment, discipline, study of the self, and surrendering to the highest state of being, one develops the positive patterns of behavior required for meditation. 3. Asana (posture) By holding the physical body in specific postures, one creates a conducive atmosphere within the body for stillness, calmness, and balance of physical wellbeing. Without practicing Asana, there can be no meditation. 4. Pranayama (breathing technique) Breathing is work upon the physical body. Essentially, the breath occurs in patterns. These patterns must be observed. The science of Pranayama is for the purpose of developing the sense for the most intimate physical activities and how they affect the body and mind. Without developing a deep intimacy with our physiological processes, there can be no distance from the body and mind, hence no meditation. 5. Pratyahara (withdrawal of sense perceptions) When you withdraw your sense perception after completing the above steps, all senses begin to observe the inner processes: The visual field behind the eyelids, the auditory field within the brain, the sense of touch in relation to the inner organs, the sense of smell of the breath through breathing through the nose, and the sense of taste of the palate within the mouth. Without directing the senses inwards and observing the inner processes of body and mind, there can be no meditation. 6. Dharana (one-pointed concentration) First, focus must be on an object. Any object. This focus must be honed. The flame of a candle is recommended, but a doorknob will do just as well. Training the faculty of concentration on an external object can lead to a state of concentration with eyes closed that is similar to looking at an external object, except within the mind, the object can be seen from all perspectives at once. This is the goal of one-pointed concentration. Concentration means both focus and intensification of density at once. The process could be analogized to trying to create a blackhole within the mind. What the blackhole does in the universe is to fold spacetime upon itself. The same is the prerequisite to meditation. 7. Dhyana (meditation) It is only after all the above processes have been honed that meditation begins. Dhyana is the cessation of mind. It is only after mind has been observed sufficiently that mind and its processes can be selectively turned on and off as needed. In order to reach this state, while remaining conscious of one's inner experience, one must follow the above steps. Skipping steps will lead to slipping and falling back in terms of progress. This is why most human beings cannot meditate. Dhyana is a state in which waking, dreaming, and deep sleep, are observed simultaneously and continuously. To know if one is in meditation, one can observe one's sleep. Continuous lucid dreamless sleep is an indicator of ongoing meditation. Meditation is not an activity. It is a state of being. Meditation is the natural state. If we were all in this state, confusion and conflict would be impossible. 8. Samadhi (absorption) Samadhi is the natural consequence of meditativeness. Once the identity is no longer with body and mind, the identity suddenly becomes boundless, taking on its natural qualities. In this state, the external observer looking at the body of the individual in Samadhi will experience them to be in a state of cessation. In reality, the awareness is completely directed at itself in this state. It is a state of recursive awareness of awareness. Once awareness is recursive as such, something beyond body and mind emerges into experience. The person ceases to exist. The persona ceases to exist. The identity as such ceases to be attached to any manifestation. The experience of body and mind cease. In their place is the experience of bliss, or the baseline state. It is from this natural state that the wisest of human beings across the ages have expressed that the Self is the same in All. This is a clear indication of transcending the first (I-me), second (I-thou), and third (I-them) person perspectives, opening up the fourth person (I-I) perspective, or Turiya. It is from the state of Turiya that one dissolves into all, where waking, dreaming, and deep sleep are one and the same in one's experience. The I-me relation is that of Self to Ego. The I-thou and I-them relations are those of Self with perceived other. The I-I relation is that of Self with Self alone. That Self is the same in All, and that Self is the true Self. It is only through following the above-mentioned practices that this experience may become a reality for all.
Damn yo! Thanks for that dump! I would save this video anyways, but I'll definitely save it, along with some screen shots as an easy quick reference to help me along. TY, TY, TY and peace all!
What he is referring to is what Ramana Maharshi would call Mona Laya, temporary (Laya) cessation of mind (Mona) waves vs Mona Nasa, permanent (Nasa) destruction of mind waves. Regardless of how long someone's is in Mona Laya the mind will pick up right where it left off before entering the state, hence no change. Whereas Mona Nasa leads to permanent change and eventually Self-realization.
I think of reality as one of those pieces of mosaic artwork made up of individual images, but together, they make a completely different picture. Each individual image is a reality, and each reality creates the whole of the reality we experience.
Reading the paper right now, so pleased to see that there is such a lot of good quality research going on into the practice and effects of meditation, looking forward to reading more. "Groundlessness of the mind" could be represented by the idea that 'ground' is only meaningful in a system that is pervaded by gravity. With no gravity, ground is just another surface and not the one to which we are always pulled or pushed. Gravity can be likened to the investment of one's experience in one's idea of self; when that investment is beyond a certain point, we can no longer tell the difference between what is happening and what we are - which is how most of us live. Everything is happening to us and we draw all phenomena towards ourselves, like gravity. Meditation progressively dissolves that force and opens to freedom.
From my understanding, your guest is talking about a hibernation like state, which animals like bears do it every year. I may simplifying but it seem to me very similar.
That's an interesting parallel you're drawing. My impulse is to think/say that bears don't consciously, intentionally do this, but then again, maybe there is a common thing going on. Maybe it's all triggered and driven through instincts, but I don't think we're yet capable of understanding just what animals or plants, etc are aware of, or what they do with conscious intent. I think humans are still very full and fool of themselves.
Comment on the discussion about time (around 1:33): I mostly agree with his insights. My understanding of time is that it is simply a measurement of change in a temporal existence. Outside of this changing paradigm (or temporal reality) there must logically exist a permanent 'unchanging' paradigm (or pure existence) in which this temporal reality 'borrows' its co-dependent existence.
I hope The Essential Foundation will consider creating some podcasts out of these great talks. Some of us have commutes and/or jobs where this would be perfect listening!
@kafkaten I have a workaround for that. Copy the video link (the "Share" button). Then start the program "4K Video Downloader" (this is a free open source software). Click on the button "Paste link". When you do that, the program takes you to the options: download audio or download video. You choose between the two and it does the downloading to your computer. NOTE: I have noticed that for some reason, these days there's a very long pause between clicking the "Paste link" button and when the download options appear. It could take up to four or five minutes. Hope this helps.
Or...just turn you phone around/hang a hanky over it/turn your screen darker/practice focus and attention and just don't look, and just listen.😊 I can find the skip[the annoying ads]-button while driving and not looking at the screen, and i have average sensory abilities. It takes only a short time to learn..
As you talk about the witnessing self I visualise a part of me that is standing separate Which makes me think of splitting My observer the witness has become a scientist attempting objectivity (which it can’t really have cos it’s connected to my experiencing self (my automatic) a more aware sensory perceiver that is not interested in what I think It’s busy breathing and healing and regulating a billion aspects of information in it’s field If I stop trying to observe and just be in it If I sort of dewitness or witness only a tiny bit my body and particularly my breathing seems to break out like I’ve been running and then I take deeper breaths which I can’t naturally do in my ordinary waking consciousness The space between feels like a relief to stop watching surgically taking me apart and I find inner pain or blocks relieved by automatic breathing and melting into a quieter state So interesting 🙏🏻 Thank you
Terminology is essential. The best description of what is going on during described cessation is given by Rupert Spira. It is cessation of mind, not consciousness. Mind being the thought and perception, inner and outer. Consciousness does not cease. If it did, what or who would be able to refer to described insight of Freedom?
@@manjukasoysa3901 The one outside spacetime. ‘When’ there is no thought and no perception there is no ‘you’, no time, no space constructed. There is just being
@@grzegorz4636 Cessation of the mind activity , while maintaining awareness doesn't stop the experience of time. In the particular case discussed , there's no experience of time during cessation . Rupert Spira seems to be referring to the earlier scenario , unless he can also go in to nirodha samapatti for seven days.
No that’s not true. What you are describing is a different state. Cessation really is the cessation of consciousness. He said it is a blip with no time passing. What is there to be conscious of if there is no time?
nearly every evening i experience desolving the ego and beeing pur concouisness - but this leads very fast in to deep sleep sometimes i wakeup inside the dream - and this is a different level - like a near death experience or a astral travel absolutly clear and real
It is interesting thinking about how the Great Indian Sage Shankara once went in to state similar to what is being talked about(but mistakenly understood as deep Samadhi state). His disciples thinking he is dead burnt his body. This resulted in his conciousness taking refuge on a bird's soul temporarily, till it could find a suitable human host(a young man that had died). So, seems like Cessation is different, in which it is similar to literal death(or more of an hibernation?),and can be somehow switched back later. So, it lacks time and space. Brought back memories of Itzhak Bentov's theories on conciousness. The question is what happened to Conciousness during that time?. The discussion of AI evolving is a breath of fresh air, than the typical doom and gloom projections promoted everyday. Very interesting and deeply intriguing and engaging discussion indeed.❤️👍
Sri bhagavan ramana maharishy replied, there is no conciousness which is a construct of the mind and that has solved into the SELF , its is beeing / God / you are all , (no more reincarnation.)
Blackout is a state consciousness experienced when awareness is unable to experience itself or any object of perception. That can happen when the nervous is temporarily shutdown to unwind a huge block of fatigue that’s been stored somewhere in the physiology. It’s not a desirable state to seek or to be developed. It’s rock consciousness, a very primitive state of being.
The human nervous system is an extraordinary flexible instrument. It can shift into different styles of functioning ranging from rock consciousness, to the relative states of consciousness: waking, dreaming, and deep sleep, to pure consciousness, to simultaneously being able to maintain unbounded pure consciousness along with any of the relative levels previously named, to very refined or subtle perceptual experience of the different layers of manifest creation, to unity consciousness, and ultimately a level of integration that incorporates every layer of existence from gross sensory perception onward up to include celestial realms in the most panoramic 360 degrees perceptual field manner - where pure awareness is able to cognizes Itself as the totality of eternal Being. Obviously, we don’t want to hang out as a rock when there’s so, so much more enrichment to be attained.
First, this is a great channel! Second, I love Battlestar Galactica and the psychology behind it. It seems almost as if the sci-fi in that series has manifested our real science AI/AGI fact future. Or At least within a modest relative accuracy. The question of are we the chicken or egg as far as alien intelligence or just ancient intelligence, I think this is still within the boundaries of question
I've had what I believe to be cessations during meditation as well. It's complete lights out, there was really no control and I couldn't willfully bring it about or control the state. Just complete blank, disappearance of all phenomena. Like being knocked out. I could only tell it happened because my body position had changed
When i meditated regularly i was eventually, after about 2 years, able to reach a sort of consciousness null-state. Staying in this state was extremely difficult for me, though, because it is terrifying for the ego. Most of the time i would spring out of it instantly. After a while i could let go for a few seconds at a time. I think the longest i was ever able to handle was about 30 seconds (its hard to gauge time in that state). The idea that people can go days like this is fascinating to me. I heard one practitioner say it took them 10 years of extended daily practice to reach an hour.
Mm Read some other comments and I think he’s telling of a stage where the witness doesn’t try to abstract define or real-lize what’s happening but just observes without intent And not observation in visual terms but just simply the tiny ripple of acknowledgment that something is occurring within the body To allow it to rejig reregulate without the mind creating contraction and control and limiting semantics about what may be ‘really’ happening After alll the body and minds’ sentient existence is bigger than words and abstractions It’s the whole and not the abstraction it’s capable of? Excellent video
He is talking about the state of Samadhi. All possible phenomena happens in One non-dual consciousness. It is wrong to say cessation of consciousness itself 🙏
To keep using a variety of terms such as 'we come back online' etc, is playing along with and encouraging us to accept being taken over by AI. We are not machines, or is that what you are suggesting - that life and its creator are mechanical? Something really does not feel right about this. There's too much effort in appearing clever...
I got into non-materialism in 1967 when I took LSD for the first-time aa a radical materialist atheist. Academically and professionally I have been chemist, biochemist, neurochemist, software engineer (including AI) and a writer. I meditate and use self hypnosis as well as using psychedelics. I agree that most life is meditation. My question how about peak experience. Both in writing software and fiction there are times when the ego disapears and the Daemon takes over. The bestcwork happens and I let the unuverse be and just be thec dspassionate observer. I imagine that is an example of meditation too. Thanks. I never thought of it in that way.
Very interesting video and guest! Really enjoyed his insights. I have a little push back with his metaphysics ideas though: It seems to me he is model of consciousness is more akin to Rovelli’s relational quantum mechanics, in which is relations all the way down. We are like whirlpools in the ocean where then the ocean is a whirlpool in a bigger ocean and it goes indefinitely. There are obvious a lot of problems with these ideas and I didn’t see him trying to address it. Everything seems to fit nicely as he said in a sort of eternal loop in which the input is its output, but then if there are no “ground-base” is it relating to what? To itself? Isn't that a cheap way of having the cake and eat it? Either way, enjoyed very much the video and everything else he was talking, great job for both of them, interesting material and minds!
I actually like the part of relations all the way down, there is a lot of people who is critisizing substance ontology, like James Filler, I think physics is moving little by little to relations as the ground of being
Given that there are even processes of inorganic self-organisation I have no difficulty in conceiving that AI can and will become conscious. It seems to me it too is subject to the interdependence that Ruben Laukkonen speaks of. Great interview! We are at a very exciting juncture in human evolution.
:33,, living on a boat,, I don’t think I could do 7 days, let alone one day. Every sound, every movement has a wake up moment . That’s why it’s good to keep your boat, barefoot friendly,peace
An interesting conversation with two fine people. The speaker a PHD, scientist and apparently a physicalist takes a classical scientific point of view, ie “ the brain creates reality and not the other way around, that consciousness, which is metaphysical creates the physical. He seems to be a materialist shadowing pure idealism. While he observes metaphysics he labels its origins to be classical science. Matter over mind.
well the brain is pretty good at covering information of the senses. For example - there is a small blind spot that both of our eyes cannot see and the brain is pretty good at hiding it. Everything we know is the model of reality created by our brain and not the "real" reality.
@@ThoArtOne By brain I mean mind. We are the prisoners of our own mind. Its just observation. Just ask what is the proof of the world. Its the senses.There is massive limitations with the information coming from the senses. On top of that out brain literally makes things up or fills up when there is lack of information.
I feel trapped by solipsistic thoughts after exploring analytical idealism and non-duality . It’s challenging to reconcile profound insights, like those from Ramana, with everyday life. While I crave truth, I also want to maintain my mental well-being. I enjoy the journey of learning, but the implications of these truths can be overwhelming. Is there anyone else who can relate to this?
@@jessiemolhoek9050 I definitely relate to these struggles in the past! On one level you are as unreal as others. 'You' are just a character narrative that appropriates certain constructed experiences of a body-mind, on that level when experiences becomes mine vs others or this experience opposed to that experience that I cannot access you simply don't know if others are conscious. To say that others are conscious is not more inferential/an extra assumption as much as saying that they aren't conscious. That's why endorsing solipsism is stupid. You simply don't know and will never know because if you did know there would be no seperation to say that others are there to be or not be conscious. It also doesn't matter for your everyday life, even if solipsism would be true you would still love others as much, have the same emotional responses etc. Just make sure to not bypass your conventional life and preferences and take care of yourself.
@@jessiemolhoek9050 On one level you are as unreal as others. 'You' are just a character narrative that appropriates certain constructed experiences of a body-mind, on that level when experiences becomes mine vs others or this experience opposed to that experience that I cannot access you simply don't know if others are conscious. To say that others are conscious is not more inferential/an extra assumption as much as saying that they aren't conscious. That's why endorsing solipsism is stupid. You simply don't know and will never know because if you did know there would be no seperation to say that others are there to be or not be conscious, unless you believe in mind reading. It also doesn't matter for your everyday life, even if solipsism would be true you would still love others as much, have the same emotional responses etc. Just make sure to not bypass your conventional life and preferences and take care of yourself.
Holy Fuck Ruben, as someone studying all this stuff, astavakra Gita, hinduism, all the modern stuff, jungian therapy aaaaaand so forth I couldn't name it all, I feel your struggle to explain it but you are quite fascinatingly clear with all you say and I love even tho how direct it is it's still not explicit but implicit most of the time so it doesn't cause any defensive position on the opposing party. GREAT WORK!!!!
The "sussation" is just like the "freedom" dissolve into freedom or the space dissolve into space. Spontaneous unmoving movement that is not in the past, present, or future. Simply, the maditator becomes the meditation. The bottom line is that none of these things do not exist on their own.
LAYERS / LEVELS OF SELF: A MODEL | ~15:00 to 20:00 ... Narrative Self Embodied Self Witnessing Self Pure Awareness, Presence, Being Beyond Self: Cesation of Consciousness
This is very interesting. I have been fortunate enough to have a spiritual awaking. I am still new to this and figuring out stuff. Can not imagine sitting for seven days. I would think the human body would become very stiff almost painful. Not to mention the lack of water that the body needs to function ?
1:34:00 “I’ve managed to say something without the language of time.” What does change mean without time? I’m going to look through this inference theory paper but I get skeptical when I see Bayesian models and what not in a theory of consciousness. Appealing to math doesn’t solve the hard problem imo.
@@essentiafoundation Hehe... Cessation of metaconsciousness seems interesting. Cessation of *phenomenal consciousness* is a bit scary. The title made me :< a bit.
that's not right, that's more what the people of advaita vedanta describes, but this guy is describing a state similar to when you get anesthesia, in which there is no phenomenal consciousness either
Confirmed, what he describes Nirodha Samapatti, is the cessation of also phenomenal consciousness, whereas the state that you describe is more common in practitioners of non-dual awareness of advaita.
@@conexionneuronal8820 anesthesia affects memory, we have no reason to believe it turns off phenomenal consciousness. there's no empirical evidence for the claim that phenomenal consciousness can be turned off
It seems to me that epistemically speaking there is a complete underdetermination between either the lack of phenomenal consciousness and the lack of meta-conciousness/memory of phenomenal consciousness which are non fictionalist third person based interpretations of this phenomenon. And furthermore it is also underdetermined with two more fictionalist about third person person views like solipsism and the view that both one's own mind as other minds are constructions/fictions in which this phenomenon is interpreted as a sort of jump cut in a seemingly coherent storyline. Whatever one you choose depends on your ontological commitments.
Can we use "prayer" or affirmations (or pick a cultural equivalent) to affect the points of the "I AM"'s traversal through the infinite states of possibility to make "miracles" happen in our 5 sense world?
I meditate, then dive into ice water to shock the autonomic pain and temperature sensation silent for up to 45 minutes. Praying before diving took me to the abyss for my shake. I was in trance walking in the snow for 45 minutes. Infarct with blood product in perhaps the correct spot. I would like to find the right neurologist. I'm fine, but the journey to the abyss , I describe as the boat ride, the Mandjet.
Initially does a very good description of constructs and constructions. But then talks about an external "reality" where different consciousnesses of individuals interact. How is that not an abstract construct? Hope he gets some clarification from the person who actually reached Nirodha Samapaththi.
Well, if the subjective 'interval' between one state of awareness and the next is instantaneous, as there would be zero experience of any passage of time, how can it be said that there was a cessation of awareness? How long is instantaneous? When exactly did awareness cease, and then return? How does 'when' even apply, in the absence of any experience of time?
Awareness does not cease. It is instead directed at itself by rotating it 180 degrees. Recursive awareness of awareness is the basest and highest state of consciousness. It is placing the mirror up against the mirror, thereby allowing the reflections to multiply infinitely. It is much like a total solar eclipse. You need only observe it once to know that the moon and the sun reflect one another in a profound way, that when the moon reflects the light of the sun completely, within a moment, a total darkness bathes the external environment, and all concentration of light is one-pointed in the jewel on the periphery of the moon and sun intersection. There are no intervals in awareness. Awareness is pervasive and beyond time. There are intervals in the breath. There is the in breath and out breath. If you look at it in this way, you will see no cessation of breath. However, when breathing in reality, there is the in-breath, retention, out-breath, and extension. It is in the states of retention and extension that there is cessation of mind, not awareness. In this sense, spacetime, which is a construct of mind, folds upon itself, thereby making the temporal dimension a spatial one experientially. When time is experienced as a spatial dimension, there is no experience of intervals. Awareness never ceases. Awareness pervades everything. We have lost our identification with awareness because we have not observed it. Instead, we are observing the floating thoughts, emotions, and physical states that appear before our eyes like dreams. Cessation of consciousness is not possible. This is a conscious universe. The universe is awareness of awareness. Once this is experienced, there is no more distinction between the self and the universe, there is no more "whenness" and passage of time. It is our experience of time as something passing that is illusory. Instead, time is experienced vertically rather than horizontally, which is how it really is.
@@woodandwandco ... In short, there is no absence of awareness, but just the absence of any experiences of a body, thoughts, sensations, objects, spacetime, identifications, etc, etc
@@wanderingthepeaks Not only is there no absence of awareness, but awareness is fully directed at itself and locked in a gaze upon itself. It is not a state that can be understood by looking at what is absent during the experience. There is more going on during the experience than during any other experience one can have of the objects and sensations you mentioned. It is simply that what one is experiencing is beyond brain activity.
You are right, that interpretation is for someone outside. For that person, time is already a construct, arising out of recognition. Time arises only when you have a sensory experience, project that to some "thing" existing, and create the idea that you have seen it before. Or see a change in some "thing". That's all it is - he does not subscribe to the delusion of an objectively flowing time.
1:26:34 The term used in Buddhism is "appearance" rather than "simulation" or "dream", with the sense that there is nothing more real than appearances. Interdependent appearances are the actual structure of reality, in this view. I'm not clear why he doesn't use this very well-known and famous term for what he is talking about.
That is incorrect. No one can achieve total dissolution of self for hours or days. Total dissolution of self may be experienced that way but is actually only a duration of several seconds and can be achieved many times a minute. One day it will be proved, by peer review alone, that your practitioner's testimony of total dissolution of self for several days is actually a state of consciousness. Total dissolution of self is about that what precedes consciousness. You could distinguish the term, "cessation" from "total dissolution of self" by claiming that it is a state of consciousness and not that which precedes consciousness.
You forgot the most important thing: energy. Cessation means conflict ceases energy dissipation stops. Going very deep, the remembrance of conflict and all psychological memory trapped and locked up as memory or matter must get unlocked and unpatterned; therefore, tremendous build up of energy!! Then there's an explosion like the big bang in big bang theory; there's creation--Jiddu Krishnamurti. AGI and ASI are incapable of a build up of tremendous energy, explosion, and CREATION. They always function in one pattern or another however advanced.
Awareness you can turn off , most people are not aware of awareness even in waking hours they are not aware and are controlled by their mind . that's why accidents happen and people get scammed. One of Buddhas last massage - go forward with full awareness.
As wise and inspired the guy is, I think he is naive to think that AI will be used to the better benefit of all. He is aware of the danger and make it clear that he know it when he talked about the 18 year old driver metaphor. There is a real risk of catastrophic consequence to naively put all his talent and efforts working on developping AI that will, almost certainly, be exploited by the worst possible corporations whose intention is to use it only for their profit. Not all thing that can be done should be done. This hubris is dangerous and I don’t want to bet the future of humanity on it.
The point is there’s nothing solid stationary It’s always in motion including the idea of who you are I think more of who you are is there in this non consciousness state without intent that’s me I’m there under that more me than any description or outward summary of defined traits
Thoughts are not produced by the mind, it would be more accurate to say that thoughts are a by- product of translation. This also gives rise to the positionality of a mind existing and owning such an object as personal mind or my mind. There is no such thing as a mind inhabiting an actual space. That which you see, taste, hear etc right in front of you is mind....
Its almost a default to refer to us as us....we immediately refer to as whendid we become conscious as if there is us ans then us becomes conscious as opposed to there is no actual us.....The default approach is where things go wrong......there is an immediate desire to put the we or us or the I am as first.....
I am very confused: It seems like either they are talking about something extremely banal - just the goal of meditation or something extremely scary and probably evil - the volentary cessation of being in Gods likeness.
God is also a construct that ceases along with others. Construction is the suffering and existential angst. But some activity continues for the enlightened (until bodily death), and this is a way to temporarily suspend that.
You use Christian terminology, I surmise? Christianity is just one mind construct, among many, constructed by our minds to try and reach a consensus of “reality”. Meditation, in my limited understanding, sees beyond mind constructs and concepts to the underlying reality.
Great truths ❤ However the answer to "Why did life emerge and become conscious?" goes into a wrong direction. The question includes wrong assumptions. Life was always there, and life was always conscious, both are the same. Also complexity did never grow. Please, before talking about complexity, define how to measure it in an observer independent, objective way! Complexity of world parts with state spaces of a non-countable infinite set? Complexity of processes on a non-countable time? Right, such a definition cannot be found. At most an observer dependent, subjective definition could be found. Useful for human communication, but not real at all.
This is a very long video. Before I go further as I feel like I've already wasted 5 minutes, what is the point of not being conscious for so long? Life is short. Why not enjoy it instead of disappearing?
The point is not in disappearing, the point is full realization of how we construct from our experience. One can keep believing in the constructed and stay trapped in seeking pleasure in the experience, or seek freedom which is a greater happiness than one can imagine. But it is hard to get to the point of seeking unless you have experienced life and seen the pointlessness of what you refer to as "enjoy it"
@@Ajith-c2h Thank you for the explanation. I have had several direct experiences with truth. I am free and I am enjoying the ride. Not going to wallow in the pointlessness.
. ''Human'' means earth pluss man.... the humus man......“man,” pluss/and humus, meaning “earth.” = Human... interesting.. using this idea... it wouldn't be that far out to ask.... why the man was an existing word used separately... before adding earth. as if to distinguish between MAN, and man of the earth?... woman is - man with wom'b' in front.... why would we need to add the words together in that way?? very suggestive... insinuating man was a conceptual being before the earth was around?... or that there are different types of a man before hu-man's??..... it seems to me people go out of their way to not notice a very particular design here, a ''set-up''...animals are from another place most likely higher dimension beings in '' a meditative'' dream state so to speak.... the word -animal literally means living spirit!... not beast..... living spirit...... most spirits are not living.... very very interesting stuff..... maybe just maybe, this washing away of the self is actually a procedure to ensure our protection, from ourselves..,
If you have no direct link with the Big Boss Himself, your you will keep haunting you to hell. Give it up sooner then later for you will have no idea until your ideas are not yours anymore....🎉
