Constance, after over 50 years of genealogy, I use documents, records, photographs to implement my entries. I've discovered over the decades that family histories based upon family legends, myths, memories are usually misinformed, even LDS entries from people outside the families appear to have errors.
I like when the name is misspelled or the person uses thier middle name. One of my worst was my 3xs great grandmother who I thought was buried in one state but was buried in another.
I have an example in my ancestry of a Census record being primary. My ancestor _was_ the enumerator who filled out the information on his own family. He was also the town clerk. It's really a blessing to see his handwriting on so many records.
One of the Victorian enumerators of our local census wrote a very long letter complaining about the logistical problems performing the census and how it could be done better. I don't suppose anyone ever read it and it was just stored away with returns until they were eventually copied when microfilms started to be done.
Well that is a unique situation. I would agree that it is likely a primary source. However, I know my father could not keep track of our ages and birth dates... LOL.
@@GenealogyTV Heh heh. Yes, some folks struggle in that. My ancestor, Elias Mellen Carter, supposedly was quite the detail-oriented, high-integrity man. At various times mid-1800s he was a County Clerk, US Post Master, and Maine assemblyman. Two of his brothers were US Representatives & a son was a Probate Judge. Because of all of their public service I'm really blessed with a rich collection of evidence about them.
Weird story about facts that don't agree ... while I was seraching for a marriage record, Ancestry hinted at a record where the woman was named McKoel whereas I was searching for McNaught. I dismissed this at first, but Ancestry hinted this again some time later. After some effort, I concluded that this family of McKoels adopted the name McNaught, sometime in the 1790s. The clincher for me was finding marriage records for four McKoel brothers, all from the same area of Scotland, who married four women whose first and last names matched with four McNaught brothers with wives of those same names. The McKoel records for these people cease after roughly 1795, and the McNaught records for these people don't appear until roughly that same time. Hopefully that's a good example of correlating evidence.
ANCESTRY is slap FULL of bogus info especially in others trees, with my family line there has been a zillion of folks who have married / merged families that should of never been, after that is done & others copy such & pass it along then folks who use such will NEVER find out the truth unless by searching out original documents on foot
The different names on these documents clearly do not represent the efforts of people "who might have been distracted, stupid, drunken, or simply a liar." And incidentally, the later name is sometimes written in stone, if you get my drift. These documents exist; their very existence are facts. I submit that the different names (McNaught and McKoel) are genealogical facts; otherwise, genealogy as we understand it doesn't deal in facts and your beef is with Connie as well as myself.
Marriage certificates are great for marriage dates and places, but estimated ages are quite often fibs because one or both parties to the marriage is underage.
Thanks for another great episode. I always learn so much from your videos. One thing I want to share is that one of my husband's uncles had an older sister who was present at both her brother's birth and death (and remembered both events clearly!). I'm not sure whether or not she was the Informant on the death certificate, however if she was, she pesumably would have been a primary source for both date of birth and date of death!
Excellent! Thanks! That is the process you need to go through. But always keep an open mind for weird anomalies. You know this, but others may not. My father's middle name on his modern death cert is wrong..... My brother was the informant. He gave dad's name. First and last. Then apparently was asked "Middle name?" And he gave his own..... So Lewis Robert Surname was recorded as Lewis Remington Surname. Informants at deaths can screw up not only the secondary info, but even the primary. They are not in a good place.
I've seen translated names- Louise/ Louisa, Charles/ Carl, typoes like Ray/Roy, and names written phoenetically, not how the family spells it. It's still the same name.
Thank you for a great video and for mentioning the importance not just of who wrote it but how long after the event. My great grandfather and his siblings Declaration of Birth forms (Ontario, Canada) were completed by their parents BUT anytime from 25-55 years after the births. And I have relatives that have missed the document dates snd referred to them as Birth Registries, taking them as more accurate than they should. My 2x GGrandfather for instance provides his own marriage date and location which conflict. Either wrong year or wrong country! Context as well as all of the details on a document are SO important.
Sometimes the whole of a family's children were baptised at once. I think this tended to be either out of poverty or where families were non-conformist and not attending the approved established church that would normally take the records and at some point down the line somebody would point out that they should have had the baptisms recorded outside their own church.
I find newspapers a very good source to help point out errors. For instance if a paper announced the marriage or birth in a particular year it's quite unlikely it happened 5 years later. Not impossible however😂
One normally thinks of a birth certificate as being a primary record. But I’ve come across some in New York City circa 1882 where the dates of birth are AFTER the date the priest wrote in the register for their baptisms. The birth forms were filled out by the midwife in those early days. They spelled names wrong, they forgot how many kids the mother previously had had, and they had to report the birth within so many days after the birth. I am guessing that they probably fell behind in their paperwork from time to time, so fudged the date of birth so as to seem in compliance and avoid a fine. Either that, or they got confused about dates.
If the card has the signature of the person, I'd consider it primary. It indicates they filled it out or at least likely reviewed it before signing it. So it's first hand knowledge about themselves.
Agree that obits usually is secondary evidence. My paternal grandfather obit gives his father and mother’s name. This is the only information I have on who his parents were. However I cannot find any records on the name of the person who was listed as his mother. I have found census records on who I believe was his father. I think that maybe my father was one of the persons that gave the information for the obit but unfortunately he is deceased so I can’t ask any questions. So it is a brick wall on who actually was my paternal grandfather’s mother.
On my maternal grandfather's parents...the only place that I found info for their names was his death certificate. The info was given by my maternal grandmother. However, someone else wrote down the names. For years I have looked for his parents. Only to discover that his father's name could have been misspelled. So much for the death records having first and second hand information. 😮
Haha. Trying to find out where an ancestor was born, every source has a different place. Eventually kids just list her as being born in “?” 😂 so they just didn’t even know.
I did watch this thinking it may be along the lines of another issue I have been pondering about. That is, there is a good chance that a DNA record will produce or link to a different family line from the documented line of descendance. I would ideally want to record the biological line and the line established by documents and family knowledge. I've been wondering how i would/could do this in ancestry or other family trees or even just flag a point where divergence existed or was suspected.
I heard my grandmother and two of her sisters talking about a brother who had died in an accident on the family farm. The only 'evidence' I have found for this boy's existence is the 1900 Census where their mother is listed as having given birth to 6 children and that only 5 were living, and my great aunt's birth certificate where she has written that the date of birth was wrong and must be her brother's date of birth. (fudging her age?). In twenty years of searching that is all I have found pertaining to this boy's existence.
I recently came across the obituary of one of my 2x great grandparents. It mentioned her surviving sister, a Mrs. (Husband’s first name and surname). Once I determined her first name, by looking up marriage information by the husband’s name, I did a name search in various newspaper archives. I discovered that her sister had moved to another state, and died just prior to my 2x great grandmother. Being that these events occurred early in the 1900s, I’m guessing that whoever reported the information for my 2x great grandmother’s obituary, was simply unaware of her sister’s prior death.
Another great research episode! In my 30+ years of researching my genealogy, I've found that the LEAST reliable documents are Death Certificates, apart for the date and cause of death. The Informants may not know the deceased very well, and they are in a distressed emotional state. Names and birthplaces - especially of the deceased's parents - can be unknown or inaccurate. These gaps and inconsistencies can create research roadblocks for us in the modern age.
Precise dates of birth seem to have been very important in Germany - even back in the 1700’s, judging by the records I’m seeing today. Every marriage has the full dates (and places) of birth for the marrying parties, making it pretty easy to find their baptism records (assuming you can decipher them, lol). Perhaps it was extra important because so many people had the same names.
My mother's name is Doris Waters. On my sister's birth certificate it's listed as Dorothy Lee Waters. Dorothy is my sister's name. Not sure where Lee came from SMH
So if it’s written in stone can you be sure? Have a find a grave entry where who knows who put a bunch of information and a name. But the picture of the stone says something different. This proves you need go look for more information.
@@GenealogyTV Right you can’t exactly return it to the stone chiseler. The info was in German and using google translate it said Sophia Block nee. Wolf. Have a death record listing parents as L and M Wolf. But find a grave description says Sophia Kramer and ignores the stone. I know this is all secondary. Also have husband next to her and based on location and other dates. I think I have the right Sophia and Johann Block. There is another pair with same name in same area But dates and location not matching. Find a grave is like family search anyone can say anything? Really need to only use it as one of many pieces of evidence?
My mother's birth date, month and day, is 2 days different than her father's birth date, and her mother confused the two on my grandfather's death certificate and headstone.
I have conflicts between the county registry for the two marriage records of my great granduncle. In the first marriage in 1884, it lists his father name as William and does not list the mother's name at all. In his second marriage in 1926, it lists his father's name as Edward Oliver and mother's name as just Melinda (no maiden name). In my great grandparents' marriage record in 1887, it list my great grandmother's father's name as William Oliver and her mother's name as Meranda (no maiden name). Secondary sources death certificates each list father's name differently. For one sibling it says John and the other had Edward. Another secondary source (1925 Iowa State Census) agiam has different names for the father. One lists Edward, and my great grandmother's lists his nam as James. I could discount the death and the census, but how do weigh the evidence of the marriage records?
In marriage records, the information is often provided by the couple themselves, so it is likely pretty accurate. However, I would double check that all the records you have are your people. Question everything... including the source. Then research all parties mentioned in all records doing that "reasonable exhaustive research" and keeping separate research note on each one of those people. Doing so a solution may emerge.
Talking about the person that is giving the information. My maternal grandfather stated his place of birth (Mexico) and his full birthday on the marriage record. When his first child was born he gave a different place of birth for himself from the info on the marriage record. Then his second child came along and again that information changed. By the time, the 1930 census were taken he claimed to have been born in the United States. Lol...talk about finding primary souces!!!
Thus video is awesome. Thank you for clarification on primary and secondary documents. I had asked this question before in one of your recently done videos and this video gave me a lot more insight and information. Thank you for this video. I am currently working on my Grandmother's Mother's Maternal lines and after seeing this video I can use the information to determine primary and secondary documents and get deeper into that family line. Again thank you for the awesome video and clarification 😀
Just keep in mind... while we're weighing evidence, it is not always the deciding factor. Secondary evidence can be right and primary sometimes is wrong... just say'n. You are the detective who will figure it out. :)
@GenealogyTV ...lol...yes my Aunt calls me the Family Genealogy Detective quite a bit. She tells me if anyone going to find it and it would be me. Thank you Connie for all the videos you have made...I definitely find myself going back through the older ones just to refresh my mind set and get myself back on track again if I get stumped...great videos and definitely love your insights, thoughts and knowledge that you share with your audiences. 😊❤️
