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When Oppression Metaphors Go Bad: A Case Study of X-Men 

Fandom Musings
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X-Men has always been a metaphor for oppression. Most commonly in the early comics, mutants and their fight for acceptance was a metaphor for the Civil Rights movement. More modern media uses the mutants as a stand in for the LGBT+ community facing homophobia. And this is all well and good.....except....
Well. The super powers muck it up.
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6 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 106   
@Superninfreak
@Superninfreak 6 лет назад
I think the problem is that a lot of writers want to create a “nuanced” story, without absolutely clear good and evil. They want to create a narrative where both sides have a point, even if you’re supposed to root for the protagonists in the end. That’s fair enough as a general writing strategy, but when doing an oppression narrative it leads to bad places. They want to have the story say that oppression is wrong, *but* that the oppressors have some justification behind what they do, because they want morally grey antagonists, rather than over the top evil antagonists. The end result is a narrative that tells you that oppression is morally wrong, but also makes the oppressed people incredibly dangerous.
@michaelhenry3234
@michaelhenry3234 5 лет назад
+Superninfreak Oppression narratives are just bad ideas regardless in most instances. If you don't go the morally grey route, which I agree is a bad route to take, you end up with the protagonists facing clearly evil villains and a mindnumbingly obvious allegory. It becomes so cut and dry that it feels like straight up propaganda.
@oof-rr5nf
@oof-rr5nf 5 лет назад
Awesome comment!
@oof-rr5nf
@oof-rr5nf 5 лет назад
@@michaelhenry3234 idk how narratives speaking truth to power against oppression can be classified as "propoganda"
@oof-rr5nf
@oof-rr5nf 5 лет назад
@Rtkts Yeah, but in real life those justifications aren't justified. In fiction they keep inserting legit reasons for alienating and hating the minority.
@michaelhenry3234
@michaelhenry3234 5 лет назад
@@oof-rr5nf Propaganda isn't inherently bad. Propaganda is just information of any kind trying to persuade you to a certain point of view. It gets annoying when it's too heavy handed.
@casir.7407
@casir.7407 6 лет назад
i think it was lindsay ellis perhaps (i think it was in her Bright video, though i could be wrong) who said once that oppression narratives set in fantastical scenarios just dont tend to work since in these cases the writers feel the need to have absolute narrative sense and try and justify why people would opress the minority. it next to never takes into account why opression really exists, and what motivates it -as you said, by the fact that it benefits a ruling class or a majority. it wants to have a good reason so you understand both sides, and be a reason simple enough so that it can be overturned or that its believable that the heroes can change the opression system in a neatly organized runtime.
@Threeli
@Threeli 5 лет назад
The oppressors in this scenario is clearly humanity. They spread propaganda campaigns, develop "cures" to alter the mutants' genetic makeups, as well as a litany of other sci-fi tropes including giant fucking robots. The 1% in this story is well aware that there are people out there that are powerful enough to go out on their own and combat climate change, break up the military-industrial complex, overthrow friendly dictatorships etc. and they consistently find ways to escalate their side of the power dynamic to keep their position & status.
@AliciaNyblade
@AliciaNyblade 4 года назад
"Real-life minorities don't have superpowers." Thank you! This is why I personally find the "Superpowers = being a minority" at best a weird metaphor and at worst an insulting one. I've been visually impaired since birth and I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every tome someone asked me during conversations about our favorite characters, stories, etc., "Oh, do you like Daredevil? He must be an empowering figure for you since his blindness gives him superpowers!" Um. no. Having a body which physically works differently from the majority is not the same thing as having random-ass superpowers for whatever reason. Not to mention perpetuating the idea that having a disability means your sensory experience is SO wildly unique can lead to comical or creepy situations. Everything from people in a restaurant being REALLY curious about how your meal tastes for you to objectifying assholes hitting on you because they think they'll get their rocks off in a way they haven't before by fucking a person with a disability. And yes, I've experienced both scenarios and all other kinds in between in the real world and they're not fun. So, in short, I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes harmful tropes or stereotypes can be woven into fiction even if the creators didn't do so intentionally and therefore, it's important for artists to do their homework in regards to those things.
@TheDoctologist
@TheDoctologist 6 лет назад
This is why allegory can be problematic. X-Men is supposed to be *applicable* to the plight of oppressed minorities, but it's also supposed to be empowering and exciting. I'd argue that X-Men manages to function effectively on a metaphorical level despite it not being a 1:1 allegory. You raise a useful point, but perhaps the most important thing to bear in mind is simply that of applicability over allegory and that metaphor need not quite be metonymy.
@snaketooth0943
@snaketooth0943 5 лет назад
That of?
@ellugerdelacruz2555
@ellugerdelacruz2555 3 года назад
You're Right. Too Many people these days confuse Allegory with Applicability.
@PirateGondolier
@PirateGondolier 5 лет назад
although zootopia def could’ve been clearer, it was interesting to see that they showed how white feminism interacts w/ internalized racism
@TheSeriousPain
@TheSeriousPain 6 лет назад
My problem with Zootopia and other films using different species as allegory for human minorities is that unlike humans different animal species really are inherently different from each other
@rgama1173
@rgama1173 2 месяца назад
Zootopia is specially funny. Because it makes perfect sense for the prey animals to want to live away from predators
@Flowtail
@Flowtail 5 лет назад
Hm this is interesting to think about with a world like My Hero Academia, where most people have powers, and the mechanics of somebody's powers are a part of their medical info and people without quirks are bullied. But that's not a metaphor for oppression soooo
@MilkyMocha315
@MilkyMocha315 3 месяца назад
Someone on tumblr pointed this out, but the X-Men actually work best in a shared with other superheroes who aren’t Mutants, other superheroes whose powers are just as dangerous as the Mutants’ yet who don’t face any of the discrimination that Mutants do. Because that makes racism directed at the X-Men and Mutants completely irrational, just like in real life. But even if we ignore this aspect of the universe that the X-Men inhabit, I think it’s worth bringing up that the measures the governments of earth cook up to oppress Mutants are oftentimes just as dangerous as, if not more dangerous than, the Mutants themselves. Forget getting hit by laser beams, I’d be more worried about a Sentinel stepping on me while carrying out a routine Mutant arrest.
@ninereeds1810
@ninereeds1810 6 лет назад
I know this isn't really the topic, but I'm really glad you brought up Korra. That scene really annoyed me the first time I saw it because the activist dude is like, "Benders are oppressing us", to which Korra responses, "Bending is awesome!", which is completely beside the point. Yes, bending is awesome, but its coolness has nothing to do with any oppression that might be going on. But whatever, perhaps this season will focus on Korra realising that the non-Benders have a point and fighting for their rights (as is her job as the avatar). But nope, the non-Bender activists are evil, and any oppression that might be going on is never really shown. Urgh.
@homanism6438
@homanism6438 2 года назад
When people get the power, they'll usualy become corrupt and abuse it
@kayg6090
@kayg6090 6 лет назад
Oppression metaphors are extremely hit and miss, even in the same franchise (like X-men), mostly cause it's due to interpretation. They can be enjoyable and relatable and generally good but I wished they did focus on actual oppressed groups though. Even though you did not really talk about it, I do think Zootopia did a decent job for a kid's movie. Even though it's still really flawed (and I have seen some white guys say that predators represent them which makes zero sense in the narrative but them apparently seeing themselves in the predators kinda funny) but if you have the interpretation that you can be oppressed but still have biases against other minorities and you might not be as progressive and forward thinking as you think. Bunnies are seen as weak and easy to push around while foxes are seen seen as sneaky and untrustworthy. And for a kid's movie they made it a little more complex then they usually do for kid's movies. That said, like I mentioned before, it does have a flawed comparison when prey animals would have a natural reaction against predators who, you know, eat them. They kinda have a reasonable reason to distrust them. Which is the same deal with X-men.
@Serje1227
@Serje1227 5 лет назад
I feel like something that should be considered is that the X-Men don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in the same universe as Spider-Man, Captain America, Ghost Rider, Thor, Blade, Deadpool, etc. While the oppression metaphor still isn't perfect, super powers are ridiculously common in that universe, so it's still pretty messed up that characters like Spider-Man are constantly judged by their actions while someone like Jubilee is judged because of they were born differently.
@Sandreline
@Sandreline 5 лет назад
(The whole series had issues, and I'm not going to get into that.) I don't think the oppression metaphor in Korra was bad. Just not fully fleshed out. It didn't take the time to explore the nuances they were trying to express. You could see where they wanted to go with it. Korra is also different from X-men and Zootopia, in that the oppressed people were the ones without the power. If you want a good oppression metaphor surrounding people with powers, the Broken Earth trilogy by NK Jemisen is fantastic.
@patpattouille4544
@patpattouille4544 6 лет назад
I kinda disagree with the zootopia part, I mean the fact that predator are oppressed and oppressors makes sens in the way that it reflects real life: a white women can be oppressed because of sexim, but still be racist that doesn't mean that zootopia is flawless and in my opinion has the same problem with x-men: the people that try to defend themselves are always shown as the bad guys (in the x-men case, magneto is on the bad side even tho it's nuanced) for the rest I totally agree with your video, even tho i love x-men, the metaphor always bugged for this reason (sorry for my english, not my native language)
@Fire-Wolf-The-Wolgan
@Fire-Wolf-The-Wolgan 3 года назад
At least James Cameron's The Avatar doesn't justify the villains actions against the Navis. However, that movie is often criticized for being a white savior trope.
@ChangedMyNameFinally69
@ChangedMyNameFinally69 6 лет назад
It's actually done well in the Witcher, considering dwarves and elves and other races aren't usually better than humans at anything, and the ones that are often aren't violent and want to be left alone (like vampires). Plus humans are plenty racist against each other which would actually happen.
@bygon432
@bygon432 6 лет назад
It's the core dilemma at the root of it - If your story has a group of people distinctly different from the majority, it's inviting to include an oppression narrative. But the entire reason oppressing minorities is wrong is because they're NOT different from us.
@roadent217
@roadent217 5 лет назад
So it would be potentially fine to oppress those that actually were inherently different from us? If we ever, in a sci-fi spacefaring future, come upon a sapient, yet technologically inferior, alien race, are we morally justified to enslave them then?
@rgama1173
@rgama1173 2 месяца назад
​@@roadent217yes
@danicajekic1595
@danicajekic1595 5 лет назад
Just found this, and I would like to add the Skrulls from the Captain Marvel MOVIE as an interesting new fantasy/sci-fi oppressed group. I was surprised at how well it worked.
@oof-rr5nf
@oof-rr5nf 5 лет назад
@NightHawk92 Eh, the comic thing sounds like a convenient gimmick to fit in ready-made bad guys in the way of "you thought I was X but actually I was a Skrull all along! MUAHAHAHAHA" . . . Not appealing villains imo, no offence to those who like it.
@dragonetafireball
@dragonetafireball 6 лет назад
The absolute worst oppression narrative I’ve seen IMO in mainstream media is the Faunus in ruby with the infighting being prioritised over displaying the actual bigotry makeing it seem like the Faunus deserve it. The city that is called the most bigoted has a Faunus as a headmaster who SPOILERS is a coward and sells them out to the villain and is demonstated to not be suitable for the position which would seem unlikely in a land where he’d have to work harder to get that place only one instance in a small sign in the background of a rundown bar with no coustemers is the only evedane of bigotry. The leader of the movement is evil and it almost seems like segregation worked because the people in that island don’t seem to be in that bad conditions and are complacent and don’t want to join in fighting but get railed to by the side of the movement that claims to want peaceful protests. It’s a mess and though it gets better in season 1 they have a bigotry arc solved by the prejudice individual getting over it off screen. It’s established later that her family is essentially slave owners and they don’t like the race because the revolted but the Faunus character is like sorry I misjudged you because your family had my people inslaved within my living memory when I’m 16 so not even a generation has passed. I’m rambling but my point is it’s handled badly.
@TheNightmareRider
@TheNightmareRider 6 лет назад
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this. The mutant powers may be dangerous, but that only makes the person *potentially* dangerous because they are capable of using their skills, be it innate or learned, to harm others. Just because you can clench a fist and seriously harm someone with it doesn't make you deserving of hate or oppression. I distinctly remember an episode of the 90s X-Men animated series where one mutant didn't have any special powers; he was just extremely hairy (he had a lion-like mane and thick hair on the back of his hands). Yet still a huge mob with flaming torches were shouting "NO MORE MUTANTS!" at him. Yes, keeping track of Magneto would be a sensible idea. But that's because he is actively using his powers to harm others. A big point you're missing about the X-Men franchise is that Professor X's school is meant to help mutants control their powers and use them for good. This was a central plot-line of one major arc of X-Men Evolution. Simply having the ability to harm others does not make one deserving of prejudice, hatred or any sort of oppression. The whole point of X-Men is that people hate mutants simply for being mutants, regardless of what they do with their powers.
@SourBitters
@SourBitters 6 лет назад
I don't think this takes away from her point that it doesn't fit the LGBT allegory, because gay people don't have super powers, if anything they're more vulnerable to attacks because they're outnumbered. They don't need to learn anything to not be dangerous, they're inherently not more dangerous then other humans and they are feared and demonized for no good logical reason. Where fearing your teenager is suddenly going to develop powers and shoot lazers from his eyes makes sense. Fearing someone who is a human weapon makes sense even before they have committed a crime. We ask people to get licenses to own guns you know?
@jonsnor4313
@jonsnor4313 5 лет назад
But the superpowers make them cool. They are used to make them kingd of superheroes, who are also a fears minority. Its not supposed to be realistic. And humans can be dangerous too, especially in the us with areas where deaths by gun are on a very high level.
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
Mystic Mind Analysis Actually, quite a lot of mutants are inherently dangerous even without the intent to do harm.
@ellugerdelacruz2555
@ellugerdelacruz2555 3 года назад
I agree with what you've said. Basically, the problem is that real world Social Prejudice is often founded on the silliest of reasons, meaning ultimately they can be easily disproved because WE'RE ALL HUMAN. A frog isn't a frog just because it's not green. However, if a frog had the ability to fly without wings whereas other frogs couldn't, you'd question if that frog even was a frog to begin with. This is the problem with Social Prejudice against Supers; the reasons for the prejudices can and will be justified unlike the real world.
@TheHarlequinHatter
@TheHarlequinHatter 5 лет назад
0:29 Zootopia is clear in that Nick is oppressed because he is a predator, and Judy is oppressed because of her size. They are rather explicit and repetitive about this, so I don't know how so many people missed it. There is also a larger message about how people can be pigeonholed into the stereotypes based on their species (Sly fox, dumb bunny, eidetic elephant, etc). There are more layers than Group A: oppressed, Group B: oppressors. A huge part of the narrative is about Judy being so wrapped up in her own oppressed status, and need to prove herself, that she doesn't recognize the privileges she, herself, holds over others. Nick and Judy are both oppressed for different reasons, the same way a white homosexual man and a black heterosexual woman are both oppressed for different reasons.
@gateauxq4604
@gateauxq4604 5 лет назад
I think the biggest problem the Fox movies had was contextualizing Magneto as an actual holocaust survivor. Many of these narratives work really well in the comic since most Marvel characters are based on other real world problems or fears. Narratives about the monster inside, radioactive mutations (!!!), and a man out of time are a lot more relatable in a live action narrative than people with super powers being oppressed as a group. IMO The Gifted has actually knocked it out of the park with their oppression narrative because they don’t really have any omega-class mutants and they show mutants being actively victimized by humans. I’ve felt like they’re the XMen series we deserved but the movies never gave us. Hopefully Disney finds a better way to present the main team in a better manner than Fox ever did At least now Daisy can be a mutant >_>
@gateauxq4604
@gateauxq4604 5 лет назад
PS-thank you for making me feel sane because no one was talking about how an ‘apocalypse’ would include even more murder than destruction. Magneto was seriously mangled as a character in that mangled mess of a movie. Ugh.
@inosukehashibira5511
@inosukehashibira5511 8 месяцев назад
Well wait till msheu get there hands on the x men they gone lay on thick about oppression while story become second
@fantaghiro1389
@fantaghiro1389 5 лет назад
I saw one scene of True Blood in wich talks about the 'fight for the vampires to right for get married' as alegory of the fight for gay marriage rights, and i was thinking: 'that doesn't make any sense'. For start: it was a male and female vampire geting married, so that' s enough for the alegory falling flat. Also, that's again the fact that when you choose simbolize a minority opresseed group trough fantastical cratures with dominant power over humans like the vampire, again it falls on the trap of making bigotry being reasonable justified as a form of fight against these powerful creatures. The classic monsters were constantly a transmission of the peoples anxieties with who were perceifed as 'the other'. Of how much we would empathize or fear that 'other', it depended a lot of the autor' visions. My favorite monsters, and for me the most tragic and simpathetic, are the Mummy (Karloff's Imothep from Universal and Christopher Lee's Kharis from Hammer Studios), the Wolfman, Eric the Phantom of the Opera, Frankenstein's creature (both the most intelectual version of the book and the inocent version of the tree first Universal movies played by Boris Karloff) and Quasimodo the Hunchback of Notre Dame (from the book, the Charles Laughton film, the Latvian opera, Notre Dame de Paris french Musical and the Disney animated version). The Mummy is one of the precursor' of the dead lover in search of his beloved woman reencarnation, the Wolfman fights with the guilty of the crimes that weren't really his falt, but of one dark side he needs to purge, and the tree last (Frankenstein's creature, the Phantom and the Hunchback) are actually just human beings that were pushed to comit wrong doings because of the mistreat given by them for an ableist society. Vampires like Dracula on the other hand... Well, they were personifications of anxieties/prejudices of author's and his societies at the time, particularly imigrants from East Europe and queer people, so maybe a reinvention must make us simpathize with that aspect. But in the specific case of Dracula and similar's, they were also an economical elite and very patriarchal , Dracula is a count who holds masculine power over his three brides tries to do the same with Lucy and Mina. So he is a monster that works way more as an opressive figure than a marginalized though. But i maibe need to know more about the Our Vampires are Diferent trope, maybe some versions of vampires work more as a marginalized group them other versions, depending on how much power the writer gives them.
@voltairinekropotkin5581
@voltairinekropotkin5581 6 лет назад
Have to disagree about _Zootopia_ . What made the bigotry fable work in the movie is that the animal species aren't representative of any particular ethnicity in the real world. Therefore it has a wider degree of applicability depending on where in the world you happen to live. As for _X-Men_ , I've always taken the point to be that even if some mutants are potentially dangerous, it's still wrong to treat ALL mutants as inherently dangerous. And that too has a wide range of applicability to the real world. Even if a minority of a given group live up to a stereotype, you shouldn't treat the group as a whole as nothing but that stereotype.
@fandommusings5302
@fandommusings5302 6 лет назад
Zootopia could have wide applicability and still been consistent about whether predators are the oppressed or the oppressors.
@fandommusings5302
@fandommusings5302 6 лет назад
And while I think X Men certainly tries hard to have that more positive message, basing the entire premise of the show on the fact that they are, in fact, very very dangerous by definition I feel weakens the metaphor
@ailtoncosta5252
@ailtoncosta5252 6 лет назад
@@fandommusings5302 but why
@voltairinekropotkin5581
@voltairinekropotkin5581 6 лет назад
Fandom Musings I didn't think predators were meant to be _inherently_ either. That's the point.
@voltairinekropotkin5581
@voltairinekropotkin5581 6 лет назад
Fandom Musings As for _X-Men_ , they're not dangerous "by definition". They're only dangerous if treated that way and not socialised with care to use their powers the right way.
@lonesailorpearls2094
@lonesailorpearls2094 2 месяца назад
Cyclops doesn’t shoot lasers. They’re concussion blasts.
@rachelmoore3418
@rachelmoore3418 5 лет назад
This is awesome! I've never thought of it this way before.
@ginichilders9619
@ginichilders9619 Год назад
Another problem with the X-Men that undermines the "mutants = marginalized people" thing is that they just don't make a whole lot of sense in the overall Marvel Universe where other superpowered people, aliens, gods, monsters, and other such beings with great abilities exist and don't quite get the same kind of backlash in unverse from the civilian population as the mutants do. One take I heard that always stuck with me regarding this inconsistency is that the X-men and the rest of the Marvel Universe are like two different superhero universes that got randomly merged with each other.
@laurellee1435
@laurellee1435 5 лет назад
I think the main problematic idea that this idea can uphold is the idea of “reverse oppression” being equally bad if not worse? Malcolm X might not have always been right but his position as a revolutionary who did not need to appeal to white people was justified. Similarly whilst not everybody is a revolutionary the idea of overturning the structure of oppression with oppressed groups leading the way is one that makes sense but scares the people who hold that power. So much of this media has instances of or alternate timelines where the roles are reversed and the “mutants” are in charge, and of course they are the same or worse than their oppressors were before them. It definitely feeds into peoples idea that things can go “too far the other way” or that when oppressed groups are given power they will want to take revenge and make the same mistakes but inverse. They fail to imagine that the oppressed groups might have a better way than becoming oppressors or appealing to liberalism for their rights. And in the case where the oppressed have a lot more power than the oppressing groups, equality in itself creates a power imbalance. These narratives can be a better metaphor for the anxieties of oppressive groups about their oppression of others and how to cope with that guilt without risking their position than they do as a metaphor for the real dynamics.
@skibopmdada1152
@skibopmdada1152 10 месяцев назад
I feel like psychonauts does it better, mostly because most psi-powers are pretty much harmless unless you're actively focusing on using them for harm, and harmful powers can be managed by giving them a space tthat they're comfortable and not overstimulated in or using limiters. Though its more of an autism metaphor with queer stuff sprinkled in.
@NaiaPhykit1
@NaiaPhykit1 6 лет назад
In a way the metaphor in legend of Korra was better. Bender can be more dangerous to non bender, they have access to jobs non bender can't are more represented in governments, military, police but also entertainment and it was part of the 1st series that some bender look upon non bender. It's a pity everything they wrote was garbage and worse the bad guy who got a point is actually bender.... sigh
@EmeralBookwise
@EmeralBookwise 5 лет назад
Huh... I know it wasn't the point you were trying to make, but I think you just managed to finally convince me why integrating X-Men into the MCU would be a good thing. I've always sort of clung to the notion that X-Men works better as its own separate continuity because it'd be weird if only certain kinds of super powered people are discriminated against, but the hypocritical unfairness of it is actually sort of the only way for it to work as a metaphor for oppression.
@dwindlebunny
@dwindlebunny 6 лет назад
I was hoping you'd touch on what I find to be the most troubling thing about opression metaphors. In the X-Men universe, LGBTQIA people, black people, Jewish people, (and other minorities that the Xmen could be a symbol for) already exist. Could it have been more powerful for the X-Men to be made up of people from these groups? Why do the authors choose to not have people from these marginalised groups in their works?
@micaldomlancer1494
@micaldomlancer1494 5 лет назад
So you are just going to ignore; Erik Lensher aka Magneto, Jew who was raised in Nazi Germany, Ororo Munroe aka Strom, Black woman, debut in the 1975, Xi'an Coy Manh aka Karma, Vietnamese Lesbian, debut in 1980.
@dwindlebunny
@dwindlebunny 5 лет назад
@@micaldomlancer1494 I didn't mean to say that all of the x-men are from privelaged groups, but many of them are straight, white, cis, able bodied, etc. X-men as a whole aren't the worst example of this. The one that comes to mind is in Harry Potter, werewolves are coded as people who are HIV+ but people who are HIV+ presumably exist in that world already. Having a metaphor for something sometimes comes across as the story being "watered down". I'm not sure if necessarily a problem, but it's something to notice.
@micaldomlancer1494
@micaldomlancer1494 5 лет назад
@@dwindlebunny I prefer when authors are willing to use so called 'privileged' groups because it is saying that it's always wrong, when you refuse you can end up with garbage like (Can't recall name but series where only black people have super powers) which when we solve the race relations issues it is heavily handicapped for the future. I do think I might of overreacted a bit.
@danjones6702
@danjones6702 Год назад
thats because x-men wasnt based on oppression. people are pushing falsehoods with the comics.
@spookisghostly4619
@spookisghostly4619 6 лет назад
All metaphors break down when looked at close enough
@ChangedMyNameFinally69
@ChangedMyNameFinally69 6 лет назад
How do you figure?
@spookisghostly4619
@spookisghostly4619 6 лет назад
Because nothing's a one to one comparison
@ChangedMyNameFinally69
@ChangedMyNameFinally69 6 лет назад
Ah, thought you were spewing some anti-intellectual bullshit. I agree entirely. Especially because a 1:1 comparison would be so unnecessary, it would make more sense to just make it a story about the subtext instead of trying to hide it.
@TheRavenShadowsWolf
@TheRavenShadowsWolf 2 месяца назад
The metaphor didn't "go bad" Bad writers stopped actually using a metaphor to make us think about our own views; why we held them and the greater ramifications of them, or if we might change them - and just went straight to preaching.
@Thagomizer
@Thagomizer 3 года назад
I would say that Zootopia shouldn't be considered an oppression metaphor at all. It's a work of fantasy with some involved and fairly intricate world-building, and a lot applicability without any 1:1 allegorical meaning. Sometimes, a fantasy story can simply be about itself. Besides, there are plenty of other tales with anthropomorphic animals that hit you over the head with much more pronounced social commentary, like Maus, Blacksad, and Fritz the Cat.
@Nagasakevideo
@Nagasakevideo Месяц назад
I dont think xmen needs to be a metaphor for anything in particular. It's a story about mutants, not about gay people not about black people. If you see parallels good, it's good that people can relate to the story but it doesnt need to map 1-to-1 onto anything else. At least that's my opinion on it.
@backbiter8787
@backbiter8787 6 лет назад
Another great thinkpiece. X-men and similar shows all run into this problem eventually and it is always interesting to see how they deal with it. I think X-men in particular stays strong because of 2 reasons. The first is that it very clearly SETS OUT to empower their minorities. As in, I think it wants to make a narrative where the oppressed people aren't just accepted, but validated and told that the thing that makes them different also makes them AWESOME. That is something I think a lot of people need sometimes. The other reason is that while this problem undermines the oppression allegory somewhat, it also creates a scenario that makes for an interesting dilemma all on it's own, aside from the allegory. It is kind of faschinating to be forced to think about whether you value civil-rights or gun-control more in a hypothetical situation, even if it is a scenario with no real basis in reality. Also, this is a side-note but I disagree with your observation about Zootopia. I thought it was very clear that it never said prey-animals were oppressed in any context. Judy and Bellwhether face discrimination because of their SIZE but not because they are prey-animals. The whole reason why the movie works so well is precisely because it brings up intersectionality as a factor. Judy is oppressed because of her size and told that she can't do a physically demanding job because of it, but she also has to face her own biases against another group and recognize that she has privileges that Nick and other predators doesn't have. This is then mirrored by Bellwhether who faces the same discrimination as Judy does, but she happily uses what privilege she DOES have to empower herself at the expense of others. That went on for longer than I thought it would. Is this going to be a thing now? I completely agree on everything in the main video but take issue with some blink-and-you-miss-it comment?
@danjones6702
@danjones6702 Год назад
you also forget you have mutants trying to oppress others aswell, so how can the oppressed still be the oppressors. the allegory that x-men is based on oppression is just false.
@kari3504
@kari3504 5 лет назад
Hearing all these points is amazing. You presented this topic very well. However, I am curious if you have ever seen a oppression narrative done right.
@danicajekic1595
@danicajekic1595 5 лет назад
I generally found that Zootopia had an interesting level of nuance. It explains that it’s not just a singular us vs them conflict, but there are stereotypes and biases that apply to every group. It’s certainly not perfect, but they took a pretty smart approach in making the lamb the villain and not just using lions and tigers to show the menace of all the predators. The first victim of the conspiracy in the narrative is an otter, he stands physically on equal footing with Judy (as does Nick!) When it comes to X-Men...yeah, I agree. I had to confront that reality when I started writing my own superhero story, and I’m still trying to reconcile things within my world. So I’m trying to present a bit of a cult narrative, where a Professor X-like figure tries to tell the students that they’re all being oppressed when literally no one knows they exist. Still a work in progress but yeah. It does kind of make me think about how smart X-Men Evolution was in how they framed the oppression narrative. In the first 2 seasons they were all obsessed with hiding their powers from the public out of fear that they would retaliate harshly, perhaps killing them on the spot. They also trained to make sure that they could help people when it was necessary. Everything was framed as a preemptive measure. So when they were forced to reveal their powers, I found it interesting that people weren’t quite as harsh as the teenage characters expected. The sun still rose the next day, everything eventually got back to normal once the initial stories died down. But THEN the oppression narrative started to kick in. (I think the narrative actually works well with Jean (aside from the Phoenix thing), Kurt and Kitty, but it absolutely falls apart when you consider characters like Scott and Rogue who are legitimate menaces to society simply because of what they can do when they aren’t covering up. It’s hard to build a proper oppression narrative when your oppressed characters could raze a city if they wanted to.)
@golgarisoul
@golgarisoul 6 лет назад
*X gonna give it to you*
@hujan1744
@hujan1744 2 года назад
I think that something important needs to be pointed out, we all could be potentialy dangerous, just like mutants, the important part is that what makes people dangerous is what they do with their knowledge/ablities, not having them. Also i remember one moment in the Astonishing X-men comics where Kitty Pryde points out she's not a fighter, she just phases through things, whitch Scott replies something like "and that's why it's important for people to see you, to see that not everyone is a potentionaly violent threat, or a future Magneto."
@Threeli
@Threeli 5 лет назад
You're almost there but kind of missed the point at the end. There are lots and lots of examples of characters who have either minor, undetectable mutations or severe physical deformities that don't allow them to exist in society. They all get swept up under this broad brush of "mutants" by the "normal" people in society. The characters that represent the x-men specifically are made up of the powerful, privileged few that choose to use their abilities in an altruistic manor, to embrace who they are and be the best they can be for the betterment of everyone. This ends up making them the target of people who hate & fear them, and also of other mutants who choose not to be that, but they persist anyway because they believe it's the right thing to do. It's a very interesting way to view the metaphor
@karmigero
@karmigero 6 лет назад
Absolutely disagree. Dark Phoenix looks shite and specially unearned in this ill conceived franchise and I'm not watching it or any other foX-Men movie ever again. Regarding everything else you are absolutely right. Great video
@inosukehashibira5511
@inosukehashibira5511 8 месяцев назад
The x men is cool but i found when they touch on social issues turned me off but i do like when focus on x men fighting brotherhood thats it i found using the civil rights metalhor tired and played out
@zaynab-to-a
@zaynab-to-a 5 лет назад
3 words: DETROIT BECOME HUMAN
@ultimatehamsandwich734
@ultimatehamsandwich734 5 лет назад
ah yes "WE HAVE A DREAM": The Game
@pvtferret5158
@pvtferret5158 3 года назад
Also Known as "Press X to Stop Racism".
@markkoehr5003
@markkoehr5003 5 лет назад
Not all allegories and metaphors are one-to-one.
@lemcy1256
@lemcy1256 6 лет назад
Hi gurl! Watched 2 vids of yours. Now I am your 9910th sub. Bi/cis/girl likes what you do here. Keep up the good work!
@lemcy1256
@lemcy1256 6 лет назад
Btw, you also forgot to metion the Jewisch World Conspiracy! I am a German woman who happens to be Jewish...
@Dufffaaa93
@Dufffaaa93 6 лет назад
Putting text at the corner of the video is a bad design because viewer can't be focused on corner text and video that's playing at the same time. There's a reason movie subtitles are at the bottom. Edit: Also there's too much of the corner text. It doesn't add any value to the video since brain is having hard time processing tree sources of information: video, your narration, and text. My two cents...
@fandommusings5302
@fandommusings5302 6 лет назад
Putting the comment text at the bottom would block the actual subtitles and make them illegible.
@sofiapersson1257
@sofiapersson1257 5 лет назад
-Gonna leave a Trigger warning here, Just in case- In terms of the argument that the dangerous and uncontrollable parts of x-men don't apply to real life minorities I think you're forgetting one minority where this can apply as a metaphor. The minority of mentally unstable and mentally ill, someone suffering from anger-management issues may be scary to deal with. A person having a psychotic episode may be scary to deal with. In the vast majority of situation mentally ill people will not hurt others but yet the community has a strong stigma of being dangerous because of serial killers/school shooters and other dangerous individuals often are diagnosed or become diagnosed after their crimes with some form of mental illness. But they are dangerous, they kill people. So does this mean oppression against the mentally ill is ok? Even if this group as a whole are nowhere close to being murderers? Is it ok for us as a society to lock the mentally ill away in some asylum and throw away the key, because they might be dangerous and hurt someone? A lot of mentally ill people also suffer with just wanting to be "normal" even if they can't or can to some extent with the help of medication (that also may or may not have side effects), so x-men are very relatable in a way if you chose to also look at it from the lens of mental health.
@fandommusings5302
@fandommusings5302 5 лет назад
People with mental illnesses are FAR more likely to be the victims or violence than the perpetrators of it. And it is horrible to suggest otherwise.
@sofiapersson1257
@sofiapersson1257 5 лет назад
​@@fandommusings5302 That's what i wrote..... But the stigma is still out there. And people are using the same argument you use in your video to oppress mentally ill people people (like me). "That people with quote "bad disorders" are dangerous and different and should therefore be monitored or in institutions."
@talkingtrout3148
@talkingtrout3148 2 года назад
While yes there is no one to one allegory of an oppressed group having the kind of power the mutants have, the fact that they have so much power is what causes them to be oppressed, because they could in theory take control of society, and a common theme in justifying the oppression and hatred of groups in modern times is fear of a group gaining the power their oppressor currently has. As a trans and autistic person I see myself in x-men stories. I don’t think it’s always handled well, or even often handled well, but frankly I think that since autistic and trans people don’t have the same capabilities to organize that other larger and more communal groups are able too, x-men can be a great escapist power fantasy. Not to mention that there is still unfortunately (for many reasons including the influence of colonialism/Christianity) homophobic/transphobic/ablist/anti-autistic sentiment in POC communities and in the global south; X-men stories are important not just to changing the perceptions of white communities but in poc communities too.
@inosukehashibira5511
@inosukehashibira5511 8 месяцев назад
Magneto the real hero i always like magnteo better than professor x
@zeanone9257
@zeanone9257 Месяц назад
Genocide is wrong and megnito is just stupid
@shaunboote5404
@shaunboote5404 6 месяцев назад
I feel that the metaphor stands strong with X-men depending on your pov. Magneto being dangerous does not give you reason to fear all other mutants. It is bigotted to treat all mutants as a threat (same with any minority group). Systemic and cultural issues, such as marginalisation, are causes for mutants not getting appropriate support to learn to control their powers. Being an outcast leads some to turn to crime. And irl, just like mutants, there are marginalised people that do consider their differences a super power - an example being many people living on the spectrum.
@johnferentoulaloum
@johnferentoulaloum 5 лет назад
This is exactly the thing. Mutants are not minority metaphors. Most of them at last in older stories are superhuman in every sense.If there is a metaphor there the metaphor or the question would be if the humans would tolerate beings that are not directly controlled by their society. It case you miss it humans as a whole like to talk about their "justice" but in the eyes of other creatures are the worst of the worst in every possible way. If magneto is evil in any sense humanity is evil a thousand times if you make the right analogy.See how we treat other primates and you will get the picture.If there is a metaphor that really stands,it is the implication of people discovering "powers" and abilities that make them truly independent against a world that demands conformity.
@ashkaunadib7638
@ashkaunadib7638 4 месяца назад
I’m pretty sure X-men is showing the way society wants to deal with mutants is wrong. Not that mutants can’t be dangerous. The REACTION to them by society is the metaphor.
@snaketooth0943
@snaketooth0943 5 лет назад
Well, this is obvious ant-mutant propaganda. #Mutantandproud
@MoonGodKon
@MoonGodKon Месяц назад
You said Magneto killed many people, 1 bad mutant justifys mutant hate? Ik theres more mutants that are bad but can you not see the clear parallel there? Especially when you take into consideration that ppl like Captain America exist, a war hero with super powers, he is celebrated, then ya got Wolverine, a war hero with super powers yet he is slandered simply because his weren't manufactured. I wouldn't say that the metaphor is tied to one specific oppressed group, there's cases of it being relatable to a bunch of different groups. The mutant problem is a metaphor for generalised oppression, but of course they are superheros so its not like they wont go further than we see in real life with stuff like the cures and Astroid M, etc. but you can see how these are hyperbolic of the issues in our world.
@zeanone9257
@zeanone9257 Месяц назад
But people have actual reason to be scared of mutants.
@talkingtrout3148
@talkingtrout3148 2 года назад
“If I lived in marvel world I would be sympathetic to anti-mutant bigots” So in other words, the story did it’s job.
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