When was the Ka'ba in Mecca built, and did it look like it does today? 

I agree, this Muslims story is just a fairy-tale, never happened. They may want it to be true or believe it to be true but there is no proof that Mecca existed but merely 200 or so years before Mohammad. In honesty, the entire Quran is a fable & nothing miraculous about it, it just does not compare to the Bible.

@@markscheepers9908 Your Bible is a fairytale because your Bible claims that mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds. [Mark 4:30-32] “Again he said, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it? It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds on earth. Yet when planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds can perch in its shade.”” The claim that the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds is contradicted by the evidence. We know that the smallest seeds on Earth are actually orchid seeds.

@@markscheepers9908 You said there is 'no proof that Mecca existed 200 years or so before Muhammad(saw)' Reply--▶ Your ridiculous and fictitious claims have no basis whatsoever. I shall now bring forth evidences that Kabaah in Makah did exist before the coming of Muhammad (peace be upon him). Diodorus Siculus (Born: 90 BC - Died: 30 BC) Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian, who wrote works of history in the 1st Century BC. He is known for the monumental universal history Bibliotheca historica. Diodorus is the first known Historian long before the coming of Islam that makes mention of Mecca. Reverend Charles Augustus Goodrich a Christian, was an American author and Congregational minister comments on Kaaba and Mecca, although, he is not fond of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), but he is sincere in admitting that Ka’bah existed at time of Patriarchs. He says: “Among the variety of fabulous traditions which have been propagated by the followers of Mahomet, concerning the origin of this building, we find it asserted, that its existence is coeval with our parents, and that it was built by Adam, after his expulsion from paradise, from a representation of the celestial temple, which the almighty let down from heaven in curtains of light and placed in Mecca, perpendicular under the original. To this the patriarch was commanded to turn his face when he prayed, and to compass it by way of devotion, as the angels did the heavenly one. After the destruction of this temple by the deluge, it was rebuilt by Abraham and his son Ishmael on the same spot, and after the same model, according to directions, which they received by revelation; and since that time, it has continued to be the object of veneration to Ishmael’s descendants. Whatever discredit we may give to these, and other ravings of the Moslem imposter concerning the Caaba its high antiquity cannot be disputed; and the most probable account is, that it was built and used for religious purposes by some of the early patriarchs; and after the introduction of idols, it came to be appropriated to the reception of the pagan divinities. Diodorus Siculus, in his description of the cost of the Red Sea, mentions this temple as being, in his time, held in great veneration by all Arabians; and Pocoke informs us, that the linen or silken veil, with which it is covered, was first offered by a pious King of the Hamyarites, seven hundred years before the time of Mahomet.” [1] John Reynell Morell says: “…historically speaking, Mecca was a holy city long before Mohammed. Diodorus siculus, following agatharcides, relates that not far from the red sea, between the country of the Sabeans and of the Thamudites there existed a celebrated temple, venerated throughout Arabia.”[2] Encyclopædia Britannica: Or, A Dictionary of Arts, sciences and Miscellaneous Literature, Edited by Colin Macfarquhar says: “the science of astronomy was cultivated at Babylon; but the school of the Arabs was a clear firmament and a naked plain. In their nocturnal marches, they steered by the guidance of the stars: their names and order, daily station were familiar to the curiosity and devotion of the bedoween; and he was taught by experience to divide in 28 parts the Zodiac of the moon, and to bless the constellations who refreshed, with salutary rains, the thirst of the desert. The reign of the heavenly orbs could not be extended beyond the visible sphere; and some metaphorical powers were necessary to sustain the transmigration of the souls and the resurrection of bodies: a camel was left to perish on the grave, that he might serve his master in another life; and the invocation of departed spirits implies that they were still endowed with consciousness and power. Each tribe, each family, each independent warrior, created and changed the rites and the object of this fantastic worship; but the nation in every age has bowed to the religion as well as to the language, of Mecca. The genuine antiquity of the Caaba extends beyond the Christian era: in describing the coast of the Red Sea, the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamaudites and the Sabeans a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by ALL THE ARABIANS: the linen or silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish Emperor, was first offered by a pious King of the Homerites, who reigned 700 years before the time of Mahomet.“ [3] Andrew Crichton also comments on the ‘Kabah’ in his book; ‘The history of Arabia, ancient and modern.’ He says: “From the celebrity of the place, a vast concourse of pilgrims flocked to it from all quarters. Such was the commencement of the city and the superstitions fame of Mecca, the very name of which implies a place of great resort. Whatever credit may be due to these traditions, the antiquity of the Kaaba is unquestionable; for its origin ascends far beyond the beginning of the Christian era. A passage in Diodorus has anobvious reference to it, who speaks of a famous temple among the people he calls Bizomenians, revered as most sacred by all Arabians.” [4] Claudius Ptolemy (Born: 90 AD - Died: 168 AD) Claudius Ptolemy was a Greco-Roman writer of Alexandria, known as a mathematician, astronomer, geographer; is another person, centuries before Islam who makes mention of Makkah. He uses the name ‘Makoraba’ for Makkah. In the Book: ‘The New Encyclopedia of Islam’, written by Cyril Glassé says that Ptolmey in the second century mentioned Makkah. Here is what he wrote: “Mecca (Makkah al-Mukarramah, lit ‘Mecca the blessed’). For thousands of years Mecca has been a spiritual center. Ptolemy, the second century Greek geographer, mentioned Mecca, calling it ‘Makoraba’. Some have interpreted this to mean temple (from Maqribah in south Arabian) but it may also mean ‘Mecca of the Arabs’.” [5] Ilya Pavlovich Petrushevsky (1898-1977) was an Professor of History of the Near East at the University of Leningrad for twenty years, he also makes mention that Ptolemy in the second Century mentions Makkah: “On the caravan route from Syria to the Yemen, in the Hijaz neighbourhood, lay Mecca. Ptolemy, the Greek geographer, mentions it as early as the second century calling it Makoraba, which is derived from the south Arab word Maqrab meaning ‘sanctuary’. [6] Michael Wolfe: “Mecca lies midway along the west coast of Arabia in a mountainous barrier region named the Hijaz. This narrow tract of land about nine hundred miles long with the Tropic of Cancer passing through its center. The second-century Greco-Egyptian geographer Ptolemy called the city Makoraba, the temple.” [7] Paul Wheatley: “it was its virtual monopoly of Hijaz commerce which made of Mecca, in the words of the Quran, ‘a city secure and at peace; provisions flowing in from every side’. But all this is concerned with the expansion of the influence of a city which already existed. The name Mecca (strictly transliterated as Makkah) had been mentioned in the Ptolmaic corpus in the 2nd century AD under the orthography Makoraba, which itself derived from the Sabaean Makuraba, meaning ‘sanctuary’. Long before Muhammad the Ka’bah had served as the central shrine of a group of clans, each of whom had deposited its ritual stone, symbolizing its own god, in the sacred precinct.” [8] In the book ‘A Comparative Study of Thirty City-state Cultures: An Investigation’, edited by Mogens Herman Hansen; in Note 24 makes clear when Ptolemy mentioned the name ‘Macoraba’ he meant Mecca: “Ptolemy in Geographies refers to Mecca as Macoraba.” [9] Conclusion: From all the evidences which I have presented from objective and academic sources, it can clearly be seen that it is a fact that Kabaah existed before the advent of Islam and Muhammad (peace be upon him). Sealing my arguments, I refer you to Reverend Charles Augustus Goodrich, a Christian historian, who admitted that the Kabaah existed and was built by the Patriarchs. In his own words, he says, “Caaba its high antiquity cannot be disputed; and the most probable account is, that it was built and used for religious purposes by some of the early patriarchs.” References: [1] Religious Ceremonies and Customs, Or: The Forms of Worship Practised by the several nations of the known world, from the earliest records to the present time Charles Augustus Goodrich [Hartford: Published by Hutchinson and Dwine 1834] page 124 [2] Turkey, Past and Present: Its History, Topography, and Resources By John Reynell Morell page 84 [3] Encyclopaedia Britannica: Or, A Dictionary of Arts, sciences and Miscellaneous Literature Constructed on a Plan Volume 2, Part 1 edited by Colin Macfarquhar page 183 - 184 [4] The history of Arabia, ancient and modern Volume 1 [second edition] By Andrew Crichton page 100 [5] The New Encyclopedia of Islam By Cyril Glassé page 302 [6] Islam in Iran by I. Pavlovich Petrushevsky page 3 [7] One Thousand Roads to Mecca: Ten Centuries of Travelers Writing about the Muslim pilgrimage Michael Wolfe introduction xv [8] Paul Wheatley The Origins and Character of the Ancient Chinese City: volume 11 page 288 [9] A Comparative Study of Thirty City-state Cultures: An Investigation, Volume 21 edited by Mogens Herman Hansen page 248 NOTE 24

@@Ryan-xj2fc You are twisting my words, I did not say Mecca never existed before Mohammad. I said it existed about 200 years before him not 2000 years as is claimed by Islam. There is no proof that Abraham built it or was down in the region during his life time.....prove this.

@@Ryan-xj2fc I don't know if English is your first language, but you are misinterpreting that sentence. There are 2 important reasons the "mustard seed" is used in this parable. First, the "smallest of all" does not mean the smallest but one of the smallest. The sentence does not say "which is the smallest seed on earth", this sentence is qualified with "of all" and include an "s" at the end of "seed[s]" to mean "one of many". For example "the Yorkshire Terrier is the smallest of dogs but not the smallest dog as there are smaller dogs like the Maltese, Pomeranian and the smallest being the Chihuahua. Secondly, the mustard seed was used because the people receiving this parable were familiar with the mustard seed, why mention a seed like the orchid if the audience are not familiar with it, what sense would this make? That would stand to reason why if we were familiar with a Maltese dogs I where talking about dog size I would reference it as the smallest when making a comparison knowing that you may never have seen other smaller dogs. The bottom line is, the Quran can't compare to the Bible for truth. Nothing can be proven in the Quran, it has no real history or even archeological evidence for it's existence. The oldest evidence for the Quran is 200 to 300 years after Mohammad's event were meant to take place....and no evidence exist except later stories which can't be proven. If I'm wrong, show me 7th century evidence of Mohammad, Islam or even people called Muslims from Mohammad's life time.

Thank you for your good question. I also thank you very much for taking the time to look into this and quote references which you think support your argument. As for the lies part I assure that it is forbidden. it is in fact more severely forbidden and is multiple times worse if related to religious text especially the Quran. Allah said: "They only invent falsehood who do not believe in the verses of Allah, and it is those who are the liars."(Quran 16:105) and also regarding liars "…let us pray together and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie." (Quran 3:61) and in the undeniably authentic teaching of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) he said: "It is obligatory for you to tell the truth, for truth leads to virtue and virtue leads to Paradise, and the man who continues to speak the truth and endeavors to tell the truth is eventually recorded as truthful with Allah, and beware of telling of a lie for telling of a lie leads to wickedness and wickedness leads to the Hell-Fire, and the person who keeps on telling lies and endeavors to tell a lie is recorded as a liar with Allah." (recorded in Sahih Muslim 2607, and Al-Tirmithi 1971 and also in Al-Bukhari, Mawatta Malik, Sunan Abi Dawud and so on) of course there are many other Quran verses and Prophet teachings that have the same message. Now with regards to your misunderstanding regarding the prophet being sent to people who they and their grandfathers have not had a messenger sent to. We believe in all prophets and we believe in Adam and Noah and many others. if we go far back enough then not a single tribe or race did not have a grandfather who witnessed the days of a Prophet. So how far back do we go when we say the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was sent to a people (both Arabs and non-Arabs by the way) who had no messenger sent to them or their grandfathers? Using the methodology of picking and choosing verses then ignoring relevant others is not by any stretch of the imagination appropriate or logical. Otherwise we would "half truthfully" say the Quran says "do not pray" and miss that it says do not pray while you are drunk. i.e. one should not be drinking intoxicating drinks in the first place as evident by other verses but if such a sin was committed one should not pray until they are sober again and of course repent and ask forgiveness. Going back to our issue how far back do we go? First of Allah’s Messenger the prophet Muhammad was sent to all mankind but he started with his tribe Quraish. Quraish as a tribe only came into existence centuries after Abraham and his son Ismael (PBUT). So no prophet was ever sent to them or many of the newer tribes in the region. That is one part of the reply but still does not answer how far back do we go? The Prophet was sent to humanity and all of humanity at the time were in a state where neither they nor their grandparents had a messenger sent to them but again how far back are we going? The answer comes in the Quran where Allah says: "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad SAW) making (things) clear unto you, after a period of suspension of messengers (a break in the series of Messengers), lest you say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner." But now has come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner. And Allah is Able to do all things." (Quran 5:19) so you see here it specifies which period we go back to. It is the period of break in messengers which is approximately 600 years from Jesus (PBUH) to Muhammad (PBUH). This gap in Prophets and Messengers is called the "Fatrah" the period of suspension (i.e. no prophets) and those who lived during this period have a special consideration in Islam and we neither say the go to hell or paradise but rather Allah knows best about how He with His perfect wisdom and Mercy will judge them and their actions. So now you understand what we mean that no scripture was sent to Arabs or even non Arabs of the time. And finally you want to know why I said that the bible verses are in fact talking about Mecca and not Jerusalem? First of all because it is Mecca and not Jerusalem that is called Bekka. It is Mecca not Jerusalem in which pilgrimage is performed in a valley called Bekka and with a water well provided for them. The well Zamzam which contains the very unique and very healthy water which was provided through direct Devine intervention. For the complete and detailed story refer to my book, The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) A Comprehensive and Contextual Biography. Volume One. You will find a detailed account of what Muslims believe and why with all sources clearly stated and classified with regards to authenticity. You may not believe it but it will at least show you what is the authentic Islamic viewpoint so you can make better more informed arguments about Islamic beliefs if that is your intention. The book will be out in a few months just remind me and ill give you a free copy.

BinImad AlAteeqi . Let's look at these.... Does Islam permit Muslims to lie? Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or "gain the upper-hand over an enemy" There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. Quran Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. Quran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly. Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths is with pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir vol 4 , p 49) Quran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you the dissolution of your oaths..." Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers. Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara , which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21 ) Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose. Hadith and Sira Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed companions by Muhammad's men after they were "guaranteed" safe passage (see Additional Notes below). Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means. ........Intact this is the first Muslims in the world to say Abraham and Ishmael don't have any lineage with the Arabs and quraish tribe as Arabs started existing some centuries after Ishmael and Ishmael is not among the forefathers of the Arabs anymore............ We are talking about Arabs which no prophet or Warner has been sent to before, not about the Christians and Jews that many prophets and Warner were sent to, and they have their scriptures with them and they never said no Warner was sent to them, only in your Quran quote of surah 5:19 they said that. Jews were performing pilgrimage to Jerusalem from all over Israel even in the time of Jesus, please read more if you don't know and many mountains surrounded Jerusalem which created more valleys.

d one mos thanks again for taking the time to state references which you think support your understanding. I have saved your response and began a reply but must respectfully ask a little patience because its almost 3am here and i wish to honor what I believe so far to be sincere questions with a proper reply. Got a long work day tomorrow but i will God willing find the time to reply asap.

part 1 of 3: Thanks again for being kind enough not to just make things up but actually take the time to state what you think supports your understanding. so the topic now is about whether or not lying is permissible in Islam which the video did not address? I will entertain answering that but please stay on topic in the future. First lets deal with your last comments because they are at least related to the topic. First let me make it very clear that I did not say Abraham and Ismael (PBUH) do not have a lineage with Arabs and Quraish. In fact I personally go back to Quraish and Quraish are from Kinanah and Kinanah in lineage goes back to Ismael (PBUH). Quraish as a tribe did not form until centuries later and there are other tribes that also go back to Ismael other than Quraish. Is it that difficult to understand how verse 5:19 is explaining the gap or pause in prophets? After Jesus (PBUH) no Prophet was sent until the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). That generation and all generations going back several centuries had no prophet sent to them! With your logic even if Abraham and Ismael were not prophets nor even Noah (PBUT) then you would still say their great grandparents had Adam as a Prophet. In fact you could say that about all tribes and nations. That is not logical we have a clear verse explaining the period of suspension were no prophets were sent and we know historically and from authentic hadith that it was about 600 years. As for the other Arabs who are not from the lineage of Abraham they already lived in Arabia especially Yemen beforehand. In fact it was the tribe Jurhom who found Ismael and his mother at the well of Zamzam in the valley of Mecca and Ismael grew up amongst them and married one of their women. Surely It must be clear now… there are Arabs with origins from Yemen and Arabs with origins from Abraham. There was a long gap - a long pause - a long period when no prophets were sent after Jesus (PBUH) up until Muhammad (PBUH). For centuries the people and their grandparents had no prophet come and warn them! So now you can see in better light the Ayat (verses) you had mentioned when you said: Allah informs us of this in the Qur’ân when he says: “Or do they say that he has forged it? Nay, it is the truth from your Lord, that you may admonish a people to whom no warner before you has come, in order that they may receive guidance.” [ Sûrah al-Sajdah: 3] Allah also says: “In order that you may admonish a people whose fathers had received no admonition and who therefore remained heedless.” [ Sûrah YâSîn : 6]

part 2 of 3: As for the verses mentioned regarding your "lies hypotheses": This is about a companion of the prophet who in Mecca was severely tortured with his parents to force him to curse the prophet and say that he worships their statue idols. After severe torture they also tortured both his parents in front of him to death! Then they continued torturing him until he said what they wanted. In tears he ran to the prophet complaining about what happened and afraid that he was no longer a Muslim because he had cursed the prophet. the Prophet told him that if they again torture him he should say it again and this verse was revealed about this. Explaining that if you are literally forced to say such things under such severe circumstances then Allah will not consider it disbelief because your heart is full of faith and you only did such a thing under such extreme circumstances. maybe you prefer to have God punish people for what they are forced to say but Allah said that He will not and He is the Most Merciful and Most Wise and All-Knowing. Next you stated verse 3:28. This is not about "friends" this is about Muslims not taking military allies to have against other Muslims or as preference over Muslims unless precautions are made and it was a case that a Muslim group was being oppressive or tyrannical. Check all translations (from settings chose all translations) here quran.com/3/28 next you stated 9:3 which again I think you completely missed out on because you don’t seem to know the context. The entire Arabian peninsula were at war with the Muslim nation with the exception of a few tribes who were friendly and had treaties with the Muslim nation. Yet the Muslims still signed a treaty with their enemy in order to have peace. The treaty was breached by the idol worshippers and they attacked and killed those on the Muslim side of the treaty. This made Muslims free from such a treaty and they liberated Mecca while also forgiving the Meccans. Now under Muslim control Allah declares in this verse that both He and His Prophet are free from certain obligations or commitments to non-Muslims which were previously customary in Arabia especially with regards to pilgrimage to Mecca. The and the prophet clarified this by sending Ali (RA) to recite these verses during the Pilgrimage were all can hear it and transmit it back to their tribes. So exactly what were the main things Muslims were declaring here? Go back to the explications including ibn Kathir whom you quoted. The 4 things declared were, only believers will enter paradise (i.e. do not think there is another way), no one from that day on will be allowed to circle the Kabah naked because many used to do so in the nude (for details ill give you a free copy of my book), those who have a treaty with the Prophet then the treaty will be upheld until its time is up, and the last was that no non-Muslim will be allowed to performs pilgrimage to Mecca after that year. The very next verse reconfirms Muslims obligation to the treaty to its fullest time so long they too abide by it, otherwise all others (who were mostly already at war with Muslims or allies of those who are) have 4 months warning to leave the peninsula (they were at WAR and plotted a total genocide against all Muslims in Medina read the battle of trench non-Muslim intentions and main goals and other battles). Then you mention 66:2 but you did not mention the full translation, you forgot to mention that this is about a specific type of oath yet even then one must repent and make it up through "the way" prescribed. see all translations (quran.com/66/2 ) : its about a specific type of oaths against one's own self which have been declared by Allah as not appropriate. Which type oath specifically? It's about an angry husband declaring that he will make it forbidden upon himself to be intimate with his wife. Husbands used to say such things during an argument with their wives. Such oaths against the self, such as swearing that one will never eat again unless such and such thing takes place Islam teaches that one should not make them but if they due Allah has made it permissible for them to repent from such a thing and they can free themselves by either feeding 10 poor people a full meal, or buying cloth for 10 poor people, or finding someone who is a slave and paying for their freedom, and if one is unable to do any of those perhaps they are too poor then they need to fast for three days. (see Quran 5:89) so again this is not about it being ok to lie to people in fact it places a punishment on swearing oaths to oneself!