Thanks, Steve! This is definitely something that's in Rivian's best interest to do. The NEVI funding will go a long way in helping them fund this build out, and the additional revenue from non-Rivian EV sessions will go a long way in offsetting operational costs. In the Western states, the RAN sites are mostly going in as redundant sites, with other public CCS fast chargers available nearby. However, opening these sites would both add resiliency and increase the fast charging throughput on key corridors (e.g., Highway 395). Logistically, I've heard that Rivian is still struggling even with billing their own customers, so that in combination with an app for non-Rivian EV owners should be all that's needed to open these sites. In terms of benefits that these RAN sites offer over the Superchargers, two immediately jump out: First, they fully support 800 V EVs. Second, they are less likely to be crowded or overrun. In all the times that I've stopped by RAN sites in my travels, I have never once seen one in use.
I completely agree and haven't seen a Rivian charging with these either, albeit I've only visited a few active locations. Even so, I *have* seen Rivians in those areas and they're popular travel regions, so it speaks more to the limited number of EVs on the road that the RAN currently serves on any given day. Realistically, I think even opening just 1/3 or 1/2 of the stalls at these sites to non-Rivian EVs would give them a new income stream, public goodwill, and an understanding group of early adopters to test the waters for a wider public opening in future. Better to be troubleshooting issues with an understanding and grateful audience now than getting a bad rap from general users by opening everything up en masse next year, I would say.
We’ve benefited from Rivian’s free Waypoint network since they launched here late last year. The co-located Rivian DC fast chargers are still exclusive to Rivian. There is rarely anyone charging there.
Absolutely, and something I highlighted in the original 2021 look at Rivian exclusivity. Although they're trying to ramp, it's going to take some time until we see a large number of Rivians on the road. In the meantime, there's a growing network of CCS fast chargers that are sitting idle, while the nearest public DCFC stations are busting at the seams. I get that Rivian promised the benefit of exclusivity, but it would seem like one or two of the six could be opened up for wider use at a premium price, without impacting the Rivian owner perks of free fast charging and guaranteed space.
@@plugandplayEVAgreed. Rivian is literally leaving money on the table by not allowing other CCS EVs to pay to charge now. Most RAN sites are underutilized and all Rivian needs to do is open up billing for other drivers. It might even help costs since demand charges and peak power wouldn't be as dramatic with more consistent charging patterns.
@@ArtiePenguin1 Yes, I think Rivian is beginning to realize that the window to stake a claim for being the "DCFC saviour" is quickly closing. 2024 will see competition increase rapidly as the Superchargers open up in various ways, not to mention the massive acceleration of installs with NEVI funding. Truth be told, I think they have probably already missed it, although the location of some RAN stations will remain a distinguishing factor for a little while, so perhaps they can lean into that to attract users when it finally opens up.
I can't help but wonder if Rivian has delayed opening their network by a year due to the surprise NACS developments this past summer. They might be re-evaluating their long-term plans and devising a solution to retrofit existing RAN stations with NACS plugs.
I'm sure that Rivian will be re-evaluating charging plans, but if anything I'd expect them to open the RAN more quickly rather than delay. These locations already have the right connector to serve a large community of EV drivers that are hungry for alternatives. It seems unlikely that even opening 2/3 of the stalls at a RAN site would inconvenience Rivian owners, given the limited locations and low utilization, so I think they'd welcome the additional revenue stream and consumer goodwill at a time when they're bleeding cash to get up and running at volume production.
Thanks for the update, Steve. One thing I would like to see sooner rather than later is the ability to filter Rivian stations out of PlugShare, shown chargers. I did put the request in to PlugShare as well, but one would think that with Rivian owning that software now it would be rather trivial for them to mark Rivian stations as a filterable charging provider, like they do with the dozens of others, and thus allowing us non-Rivian owners to be able to filter them out and not clutter our screens with chargers we are not able to use.
Thanks, Ron. Are we talking A Better Route Planner here? At least, that's the company that Rivian purchased. Plugshare is still under EVgo's umbrella, I think. But yes, the need to filter out "non-public" sites in general would be useful. Folks are still finding it hard to distinguish between regular Tesla Superchargers and the few with Magic Dock, and those have been around for going on 8 months now.
I pride myself on taking EV road trips into Charging deserts. With the SC network & what looks to be the Rivian too being open, charging deserts are becoming harder to find. The locations you mentioned the Rivian has built are common destinations for my EV overnights. Soon I’ll have to retire the series. ;-). Thx 4 the vid. I enjoyed watching & well done report
There are still a fair amount of "fast" charging deserts across northern central (e.g. the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming) / northwest (e.g. Idaho, Oregon, Washington) states.
@@chuckm260 Agreed. Although I expect to see these readily filled... or at least bridged... with the expansion of Magic Dock sites (PNW, possibly Dakotas soon) and the raft of travel-focused EV infrastructure funding being processed as we speak. The map will look completely different in 12 months time, IMO.
@@plugandplayEV - My comment was for the OP, @thenetworkarchitectchannel9507. I also believe "they" will eventually install chargers in these charging desserts, so it's not about the "if" but the "when." It's frustrating when you have an EV and you want to visit or travel through one of these charging desserts and are unable to, that is without having to double or even triple your travel time. My runway for long road trips is decreasing each year. To a degree I have to take partial blame for investing in an area (non-Tesla) where they have put the cart before the horse. Update: To clarify, I don't believe these additional chargers will be from the Magic Dock, at least primarily. With many major auto manufacturers agreeing to use the NACS protocol, there is way less motivation for Tesla to install Magic Docks. So I'm not holding my breath they will be available any time soon in the central area of the US.
@chuckm260 Understood. Although a significant expansion of Magic Dock is underway right now, with updated Superchargers in Illinois, Indiana, and further south. It's not clear at the moment if that will continue, but Tesla is almost up to 30 this week from 12 sites a couple of weeks ago, so it looks like MD still has a role to play in their public charging plans.
Good point, I hadn't really considered that they might look at Tesla's individual deals and slice it up by each automaker. That won't work from the funding access angle, of course, but some of the latecomers could potentially slide in and take advantage of the existing stations.
@@plugandplayEV Oh, yeah. I was thinking more of the software angle; where they would want to make sure a brand’s vehicles all work properly on the network before opening it to them.
@brianriebedriveselectric As long as the CCS communication protocol is followed, there shouldn't be any issues. Of course, that's only in an ideal world and there are many quirks when it comes to interoperability testing.
Has Rivian applied towards or received any NEVI awards? If NEVI is a consideration for the RAN, then I would guess that 2024 is when we'd see public Rivian stations opening up. I'm not sure that they'd continue to be 6-charger locations given the speed at which DCFCs get overrun.
They haven't received any, no, but applications could be a different matter. With the funding being confirmed and then the CEO signaling Rivian's loose intent to open back in April, I wouldn't be surprised if they align some 2024 station openings with a gradual rollout of public access. It's going to be a wild year of shifting sands when it comes to DCFC.
@@plugandplayEV I think 2024 has the potential to be a return to Happy Times for DCFCs with V3 and potentially V4 superchargers opening up to the public, NEVI stations coming online, and continued buildouts by EA and EVgo that predate NEVI.
@anthonyc8499 I'd expect to see a lot of transition pains before we get there, but the sheer number of stations becoming available should at least flip us back to the infrastructure outpacing EV adoption. Whether or not it works seamlessly when we get there will be down to how quickly network operators address issues. Look at the seven month wait to figure out how Magic Dock can properly serve EGMP vehicles for just a small case microcosm of what we might see nationwide by next summer.
We were in Napa CA waiting to charge when a R1T driver walked up and said he was in front of us since he had "driven past" the EA station 5 minutes before! I almost told him to go use the Adventure Network.
I'm not sure whether this is actually true or not, but I'm imagining at scenario where whichever charging company opens up in a particular town or neighborhood first gets the cheapest setup cost, and each operator who comes in after them needing to pay substantially more. For example, if whichever electrical substation serves the area has spare capacity for only 500 kW, whichever charging company opens first might need to pay only for new connecting wires, while another charging company that wants to come in after that would be forced to pay the much higher cost of upgrading or replacing the entire substation. If, after the second company, the substation only has enough capacity for just them, and not a 3rd charging provider coming in after them, then that third charging provider would have to pay to replace the substation yet again that was just replaced. If the above is indeed the way the high-powered utility connections needed to power DC fast chargers actually works (I'm not sure it is), it creates a de-facto charging monopoly in that area for whichever company rolls in first and grabs all the spare power for themselves, as it would be too expensive for anyone else to follow them. This would also mean that if the "first mover" charging company happens to be a proprietary brand like Tesla or Rivian, then anyone who doesn't drive one of their vehicles is just screwed, and won't be able to charge their car in that neighborhood/town at all for quite some time. Hopefully, NEVI funding will break some of these "natural monopolies". Biting the bullet and paying to upgrade that substation to allow a competing charging site to open up is a lot easier to do when you've got government money to help pay for it.
I get the feeling presently that Rivian and Tesla aren’t necessarily interested in broad adoption of electric vehicles, just their vehicles. So while Rivian and Tesla owners often can be found charging at EA or EVGo we are not extended reciprocal access to their networks, with minor exceptions for the few Magic Dock sites.
I think it's been a business decision for both, yes, but I understand the rationale behind it. EVs have generally been supply-constrained, so there can only be so many made for this nascent market until US-based production ramps up. Against that backdrop, Tesla in particular has invested heavily in the Supercharger network and been able to use it as a competitive advantage, even while its EVs were at a price disadvantage (i.e. no federal incentives between 2019-2022). Rivian is newer, so they get a pass for the moment, I think. The longer the RAN remains exclusive, though, the more fire they will come under for letting a much-needed resource sit idle.
Well they promised 600+ stations across Canada and Us and only 38 have been build, yeah they got a long way to go. I think when they finished their 600 station and works as good as Tesla's charging network, then they can thinking about open to regular EVs. :)
They just passed 50 active stations (with a similar number on the map/under construction) and it's really only been a year, so I don't see any reason to make a full buildout the criteria for opening up to non-Rivian users. It would arguably be better to do a limited soft open now, generating goodwill from a handful of users who are grateful for the location, rather than making a big fanfare about the opening once they're a nationwide network and have all the customer service issues that will entail fall on them at once.
Rivan is filling a charging gap in that they are installing chargers in out ofthe way places that people want to travel to. I think (hope) they'll open up their network soon, maybe early 2024. I also think people will be surprised how much use the network gets when it's opened up. They will more or less have a monopoly.
I am currently planning a road trip to a town there the only DC charging options include Rivian Adventure Network, Tesla Supercharger, and, for everybody else, a Chargepoint site with two out of 4 stalls down and the remaining two derated to 25 kW. Once the two working Chargepoint units are occupied, the only way left for a non-Tesla/Rivian vehicle to charge their car will be on level 2, and even the number of level 2 chargers in this town is very limited. If either the Telsa chargers or the Rivian chargers were open, it would make the planning for this trip much simpler.
There will be subsequent rounds of funding, at least for NEVI, but yes they'll need to have submitted proposals already, projecting 2024 construction, if they're to be involved in Round 1 funding.
I would guess their unplanned move to NACS threw a big wrench in their plans with deploying the Adventure Network. I’m not sure what their current strategy is anymore. Prior to the NACS announcement I would have guessed next year. Maybe they still will with CCS1. I just don’t think they’ll go for a dual cable setup (NACS and CCS1). It wouldn’t match the svelte minimalist design path they seem to be following. Their charging posts were designed from the ground up and they’ve spent considerable money to design them around CCS1. Despite the fact that they’ve already spent that money, it feels like the posts must be redesigned to have something like the Tesla magic dock. It’s the only style that will look polished and serve both CCS1 Rivian vehicles and future NACS vehicles. That switch is likely years away however. I hope they open up the network sooner than that.
It's not clear to me that the current RAN hardware is capable of natively charging 800v vehicles. I would like to think so but so far, Rivian hasn't said when they're going to switch from 400v for their own vehicles. Switching to NACS is a bit of a pain in the neck for them already but at least it's very early in their production run.
@@anthonyc8499The best way to tell would be to look on the spec plate of the power cabinets. I believe I've seen images that say they can output up to 1000 volts, just like all other high-power CCS chargers.
Trouble is, by the time they get significant coverage there will be a wall of competition from tens of new CPOs and state networks. The sites they already have would be in demand from day one for CCS drivers (hence us visiting this one), so in some ways they're leaving money on the table for 1-2 years here.
