It sounds like the best way to "advance" your knowledge and practice is to break it down into subjects and possibly create a reading list for each subject. Tarot, astrology, herbalism, history of magic, ect. It all sounds very "Hogwarts" which, for nerds like me, just makes it more exciting😂
Some of the best books that helped me expand in my craft have been non-witchy books. Hoodoo, mythology, field guides to trees, wildflowers and mushrooms, old folklore, diaries by naturalists, memoirs of country folk in both the US and UK from various previous centuries, herbal lore found in old books, in used bookstores, etc.. Like you said, it depends on what you want to delve deeper in and put into your practice with greater knowledge. Everyone's path is different, but many of these books will never be in the average magic section at B&N. You must seek them out elsewhere! Looking forward to more videos on this topic!
I have found Chronicles of Faeries to be inspirational and informative, its a fiction novel (double checked and a lot of what it says about Faeries is accurate to Irish myths and a lot of faerie witchcraft)
This reminds me of college, specifically grad school. It is important to look at what an author is referencing and look into those. Look into their sources, then the sources’ sources.
I've long stopped buying books on witchcraft. By extension, I've sort of cut back on going to pagan fairs and events as well. A lot of the mainstream material out there is very homogeneous and it starts feeling redundant. At first it frustrated me, but now if I'm looking to enhance my experiences or gain more knowledge, I often turn to texts from academia or the text itself. Given I am a Hellenic Polytheist, it definitely isn't hard in the religious sense, but for my witchcraft practice, it's mostly just doing the work now. Sometimes I'll take a cursory read on divination or something. But unless it needs extensive reading, most of what people are looking for when it comes to "advanced" witchcraft books, doesn't really exist in that form, it's literally just doing it. That's what separates the practitioner from the armchair pagan. I think another thing too is whether they're looking for material for their witchcraft/practice or their religion/faith. You always have such interesting topics and I mean to make a substantial video response one of these days...!
I’ve been working on integrating magic/craft into my daily life. Sometimes I feel like I fail but other days it feels as natural as breathing. Light a candle, connect with your deity or draw a card. Blessed be everyone ⭐️
One thing i recommend is: what ever books are cited or used as resources in the current you're reading, get those, and then the books that are cited or resources in those.. This is how i got a whole library of occult/witchcraft/hermetic etc books...
I am coven trained and initiated as a Wiccan Priestess. My HP was personally trained and initiated by the Frosts. I have chosen to be a Solitary for 25 years. I consider myself a Village witch. My spiritual practice is my own but I serve my community, who are mostly mundanes. I do divination, counselling, charms, and spells as needed. I have not felt the need to delve into hermetic magic. I am a student of mythology and other religions. I am 67.
Rivers of Life by JGR Forlong will keep you busy for a while, not "practice" but alot of old school analysis of (his theory) of root religions of humanity.
Let me rephrase that: I make sure the books I read have a new angle on certain subjects, or relate to Tarot in a new way. Or I read books that aren’t directly related to Tarot but I can tie into my practice
I got to that “truth” sometime ago, that if I wanted a more “in-depth witchcraft”, I would have to try and find a coven. I got to some strange events and people that are more interested in “selling” the religion more than giving a chance for you to evolve the experience. In the end I just gave up trying to get in a coven. But what I did instead was to try and find inside of me what I wanted to know deeper. And that’s what I’m doing now. I’m studying more about herbalism and herbology and I see the deep relation it has with the craft. Someone in the comments said that to know deeper is more of an action than to find way only through books, and is... witchcraft embrace so much, there is so many subjects. It’s like you said, once you got to the bottom of tarot, the next was something older and related.
Thank you for posting. I have been running into this issue for the past few years. I even emailed you and you shared a few ideas of where I can go to next. After studying Wicca for about 10 years, I started seeking more. After you read about 5 Wiccan books I began seeing a lot of redundancy. I started branching out to other areas of paganism and looking deeper into mythology. I've began research and reading Norse mythology, Celtic mythology, and even Vodou. That's given me better perspectives on witchcraft and polytheistic spiritualities. With such a broad genre it's really difficult to understand where to go next. My thoughts are to continue searching and continue learning. Even if you don't particularly endorse all of the beliefs it's still something that's worth learning.
I agree with pretty much everything you have to say on the subject. When you hit that wall of basic books, it’s time to think about the landscape of magick latterly. So it then becomes a question of what excites, what are you pumped to peruse. So perhaps instead of specifically advanced books, why not books on advanced disciplines that naturally compliment witchcraft.
I have found that advancing my practice has meant more specific books (eg. books on crafting rituals specifically rather than books of rituals, for example) as well as a lot of reading mythology, folklore texts, anthropology, etc. I'm definitely an academically inclined sort of person, and I am doing my second undergrad degree in history and archaeology - and I have made a lot of my module and assignment selection in order to make it dual-purpose. I'm currently doing a fascinating module on European Prehistory with opportunity to examine burial rituals of the Bronze Age in depth across varying groups in Europe, and I took an elective in cultural studies where a research assignment I'm doing is on contemporary attitudes to Clootie wells; both useful for looking at what is now broadly termed as 'Celtic' Paganism (as historian, that word 'Celtic' is nebulous and probably erroneous in origin, a bit like calling Gothic architecture after the Goths, but just as with the term 'Gothic' that is what has stuck), and last year I did an assignment on witch trials, and another on medieval female mystics. It's a lot of background understanding that is enriching my spiritual path as well as my knowledge of history and skills an archaeologist or historian.
So happy to hear you've met up with an O.T.O. body. My magical path led me to Thelema and I began my journey with O.T.O. in March of 2015. It's been quite an adventure and I've been able to travel, visit some other bodies and get a look at their temple spaces as well as make new friends. Can't wait to see the videos on the titles you suggest!
Solid advice! For me, my entry into deeper knowledge was also Tarot. It's still absolutely my main interest and I love that it can be a guide into so many different wisdom teachings. Whether it's the I Ching, Astrology, the Qabbala, Alchemy or anything else. I love studying structures like that. I'll post some books I like with regards to that on Insta in the next few days.
Thanks for taking this vague impulse and describing it in sensible categories like this. You've really helped my clarify my thinking about my next step when I feel so unsure about where my feet are.
I would personally like to see book recommendations for the Celtic pantheon, pre-Christian history for Ireland and Scottland, and also books about how the Druids practiced as well. My personal end-goal is to join a Gardnerian coven one day, but my fiance's job requires us to move frequently at the moment, so until we're able to finally put our roots down somewhere I've just been reading a lot about Celts and Druids, and I would love to see book recommendations on their history and Celtic pantheon worship in general too, because that's what I love to do the most in my solitary practice. Thanks for taking the time to share all your book recommendations, I really enjoy your content and learn a lot from you!
There is next to no information on Druids because they didn't write anything down. The only information we have on Druids is what the Romans wrote about them. Which you probably can't trust. So there will never really be any reliable information on what the ancient Druids practiced.
Spot on. I found myself in a crux with these texts centered around healing others and realized that if I were to progress (I suppose as an increase of complexity as a mental challenge) I'd need an EMT license. I now have new directions for a path of growth. Sometimes advancement means diversifying your skill set.
My recommendations would be the Kybalion work through Franz Bardons books I also agree some of the older books can be a excellent start so read Agrippa and the Chaledean Oracles to hear the words of Hekate. I really liked Emma Wilbys book on Isobel Gowdie so any folklore is also important especially local or pertinent to your practice by going back to the root of all the modern books you get to the true meat.
Thank you! In training to be a Gard initiate, a lot of the texts I’m required to read are historical and academic. It’s challenging, but necessary and more advanced than anything I’ve previously read.
Maybe one of the difficulties that many practitioners face today, that seems to be evident from the hundreds of YT witchcraft channels created during the last couple of years, is that the word "advanced" means differt things to different people. In many ways, the deeper one's thirst for knowledge is, the more abstract and complex both the literature and the practical work get. The less it is about the tools and the more it is about energy, the more you have to practice those concepts, and talking about that is far less attractive on YT. To many who are new in the field, it is the aesthetics that is most attractive, so the vast majority of witchcraft videos, websites etc. are always about even more stylish t-shirts, more expensive athames and crystals, more elaborate altars and more spectacularly thick books of shadows. Maybe it just takes time for one to get tired of the shiny, glittering allure of being a "witch", and the commercialism and the exclusivity of "this is how real witches are", and to realize that the depth is in one's own knowledge and practice, and that even with the most expensive tools to show to the viewers, the books can only bring us thus far, if we are seeking the craft only outside of ourselves.
This is beautifully developed and explained very well. I agree. The fundamentals set the ground work. Part of embracing a path that gives the practitioner the freedom to forge their own way means that the template for advancement may not have been paved yet. Each person sets their own pace and their own goals to learning. Thank you for being so very eloquent.
I've been looking for a good answer to this question for a long time and I'm so thankful that you helped me find a good answer! I've been aching to find new resources but never thought to leave the occult section at the Barnes and Nobles.
P.S. Thorn, you are an inspiration to me...wanted you to know. When I feel uninspired creatively, I look at your posts and pictures of your books and such and immediately get the urge to create again. So, thank you!
I'm a little late but your still stunning my dear. Also I found your channel and love how we have so much in common its rare you find someone you wish to learn from who you share commonalities with. Tool and a.p.c are and have been my favorite for meditation for years now. Just getting back into witchcraft and realizing how little I know lol so I'm glad to have found you and a select few others.
Thorn, I’ve discovered your channel over the last couple of days and it’s refreshing to hear to your perspective; I also came into Craft in the late ‘90s and early 2000’s
Well said. Right now I'm assisting my coven leader in training our neophytes and 1st degrees (which is also part of my training as a 2nd degree) and I'm thinking a lot about group dynamics, how to teach and how to help other people grow. This leads me to books about those subjects. The "going outside of Wicca/witchcraft" really makes sense to me.
'How much are you willing to give up to get there?' This is so simple and so powerful and exactly what I needed to here. Thanks for another great video.
It's nice to see that others felt the same way about Wicca that the books are generally the same, but I love to see that others are sensing there has to be something more.
Shortly after I joined my first coven my HPS told us to stop reading and to focus on practice. This has made me always question my reading. Books on history of organizations and personalities have their place . For issues of personal practice and experience of Deity I look to other religions and their books. I also read a lot of psychology ( not limiting my self to Jung and John Bowlby) Looking forward to your list.
Yes there gets to a point when all the basic beginner books become very repetitive.... and yes I love challenging myself with more in depth studies! I think sometimes we get a bit too caught up with reading texts.... when the depth we are after is in the practice.... the practical rituals and how they effect us.... Witchcraft is a practice so get practicing! :) Thanks for your wise words!!!
I love Deborah Lipp's The Study of Witchcraft: A Guidebook to Advanced Wicca. Even if you're not Wiccan, I think many practitioners would find it helpful. She gives a brief overview of a bunch of Wicca and witchcraft-related topics, but the real value in the book is her lists of books for each topic. So if you're interested in studying what she calls Receptive Skills (including meditation and lucid dreaming) she has a recommended reading list of 19 books. She also has an extensive bibliography she used for her topic overviews.
I think i want an online index portal that can search for you every text available, and film, or otherwise, of specific options. Options, as in the branches of the witchcraft tree. I don't necessarily want something prescriptive. I want to know what's out there from different perspectives. I think it's difficult to request that because there is a lot that cant be shared. I also think that wanting more is just a side effect of our consumer culture. There is so much available. In addition, I think people take coven work as something you can only do if you are a hard ride or die for that path. I think it can be something that you do to learn about the options and then if you don't want to be involved, then you can bow out. Yes, knowledge sometimes requires engaging with humans. I also think that we should use bibliographies of what we read. The rabbit whole is immense and there are so many to jump into!
I gotta share this: I love that word "realer" I actually saw/heard it as "REELER," and had this mental image of a big reel which reeled in information. I guess we have to all discover our own "reeler."
It also comes from an assumption or entitlement that the ‘advanced’ work is done from written works. That you can buy your way, or book worm your way into the advanced work without bring involved, without joining, without doing. The advanced work tends to be psychic related. Not everyone can be of a certain ability for that.
i doubt you will ever see this , but i love what your saying ,ive been doing this for years ,and when i suggested this , ive been mocked, so i kept it to my self , thank you for this
I also think that if people want to get more in depth with their craft, then they should look for other sequil books by the author they started with (if available). For instance, Scott Cunningham followed Wicca with Living Wicca, which goes into more philosophical/ethical positions that a Wiccan should consider. Silver RavenWolf followed Silver Broomstick with Magick Cauldron and Sacred Flame. These allowed for more experimentation and some more "advanced" work and considerations as well. Then, as you said, if you want to get batter at a specific practice (say Tarot or Astrology), then you will have to get books on those, and that might not mean a Tarot meaning-of-the-cards book, but rather the Golden Dawn by Israel Regardie. And by the way, that book has an awesome section on the Tarot (Book "T") which sets each manor arcana to a decant on the astrological wheel...pretty cool stuff, at least in my opinion. Well, have a great day, and bright blessings.
One subject that I would like to advocate for inclusion in a list of "advanced" materials is some type of intro into astrology. Regardless of the tradition, most Western styles of magic use astrology as some type of string theory; getting a handle on it can provide a touchstone for unusual topics as well as a more nuanced understanding of classical practices, like astrological talisman creation or geomantic divination. If your practice looks to the moon phase or sign for timing, you absolutely should invest in astrology.
You should really look into books by ouroboros press, anathema publishing, and scarlet print. They carry amazing occult books for your advanced desires
I have branched out into esoteric philosophy such as Hermetic, Golden Dawn, Kaballah, Lost Books of the Bible, etc. I enjoy learning about mythology and lore from many cultures. I am also reading about ceremonial magic as well. My end goal is to integrate my knowledge with many ideas about the nature of being. I am a retired widow, so I have the freedom to follow these topics. And hey, Amazon really has all of these if you can't find information in local shops.
I think a way to approach this topic is to ask oneself, as you said, what they are looking for. Some further questions that one should ask, "what does the Craft mean to me? What is it's purpose in my life?" I suppose that does make it more appropriate for a series. Witches are very independent thinkers, and there is no one way to advance.
I almost have the opposite experience. I'm a theistic satanist/luciferian/demonolater (I'm just in that whole left hand path grey area, there are a lot of overlaps between practices). The sort of books and texts available are very high level. Not necessarily in the ability to understand them, because as long as you have a basic witchcraft/pagan background most of the broad concepts fit in with that. But almost all of the texts are quite old. First of all there isn't much information available, so "modern" involves stuff that is very... In depth I guess. There isn't a real "beginners guide to Satan" (there is an "Introduction to Demonolatry" but even that is about an intermediate level). As far as modern, intro/intermediate level goes you've got like three authors to choose from (bit of an exaggeration but still). Overall, to really get into it you're reading about philosophy as a whole, the literature that shaped the concepts of Satan (Milton, Dante, those types, because even though they're fiction they really influenced perceptions), and then you're reading the lesser/greater keys of Solomon and things like that. I think it really depends on your path. More modern based paths are going to have more beginner friendly books.
Do you have a good book recommendation ondance and magick? As a former dancer, and just branching out in reading and learning about the craft..I was wondering your thoughts on a good book that may have an interesting perspective on the form of dance and magick incorporated. I did a google search and many popped up actually, but thought i'd get a recommendation on a good one to start with :).....I don't have any particular tradition, just learning , so anything that might be interesting. Thanks for all your knowledge and thought provoking videos:)
Very good points raised. You cant learn anything from just reading books. Be that witchcraft or engineering, you need to go out and do it in a word practice the craft. Go out in nature, landscapes, seascapes talk to animals etc Take up runes and tart is good to.
I’ve just read the hermetica and I’m reading the Chaldean oracles currently. It’s really deepened my understanding of the role of astrology and magical works. Anyone have any further suggestions?
ADVANCED LESSONS: Won’t find teachings in books the only path is to channel the GRIGORI ( fallen angels) for personal training, however can find info on them in Italian witchcraft books. Best to find person to introduce you, but not required.
This is such a great video! Gave me so much to consider I have been studying the hermetic principles and attempting to find resources on the subject. For me personally I want to deepen my personal practice. Wicca is definitely my foundation and a large influence on my practice. Circumstances are changing. I haven’t found a tradition that has caused me to look for anything just yet. I will be relocating soon so maybe something will come up!! Can’t wait to see the rest of the videos Many blessings
I see books that go deeper than the surface, that really make you think.. as advanced. Books like Apocalyptic Witchcraft, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, ect.
Get into stuff aleister crowley was into. Freemasonry, qabala, ancient mystery school symbolism, mathematics/geometry, ect. The Secret Teachings of All Ages is the best intro to the occult.
I can't disagree. I currently practice a Golden Dawn based system of ceremonial magic. But I started with Wicca and practiced for many years. And, for me, that wondering "What's next?" led to looking at more about Gardner. Which led to Crowley. And Regardie. And Mathers, Westcott, etc..... And once I started down that rabbit hole, it just led to more. It's like once you really start learning, you really learn there's always more to learn. The hole pretty much goes as deep as you want it to and/or are willing to follow it...................
The lack of significant material beyond the basics is a big part of why I ultimately left Wicca. I often joke, but in may ways it still holds true, that an advanced Wiccan is still a Thelemic neophyte. Ultimately the problem lies in where Wicca came from and where it's going. It's a path without a true goal. Thelema has a clear goal: knowledge and conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel. The goetia has a clear goal - manipulating spirits to accomplish aims in the physical world such as wealth, power, influence, etc. Reconstructionist paths have a clear goal: preserving and practicing a particular historical path. Enochean magick's end goal is direct conversation with apocalypse angels. Wicca's only real destination, at least in the forms I'm familiar with, is simply starting your own coven. That's more a goal of a MLM pyramid scheme than a real magical initiatory path, and yet here we are. People are hungry for something more and my experience is that Wicca just doesn't have that to offer. For me, that need ultimately led me to a combination of Sumerian Reconstructionism and Trithemian planetary work.
I’ve been wondering how books relate to the whole-foods-witch issue. Is it partly that they’ve read the wrong books? Or is a whole-foods-witch the kind of person who thinks they've stumbled upon the most profound thing in the world when they have really only read the most basic introductory texts?
As an initiatory Wiccan, I find it very difficult to find anything that accurately reflects my practice either! I think everyone is kind of just doing the best with what’s out there.
It would've been much more useful to do a video that breaks down various fields and mention one or two books that would take practioners further down that path.
Rivers of Life by JGR Forlong will keep you busy for a while, not "practice" but alot of old school analysis of (his theory) of root religions of humanity. Ive never understood what people get out of magic or ritual, but why not Agrippas 3 Books of Occult Philosophy, if your into that type of stuff that should really keep you busy
Personally I think part of the issue with "Advanced Books" si the idea of advanced is subjective. For instance as a High Priest / Priestess at what level do you perform a marriage or hand fasting ceremony? Yet equally at what level do you perform the ritual for preparing a person for releasing their earthly garb and crossing over? Yet most covens don't even touch the idea of death and death rites as part of their training. Counseling used to fall as part of the high priestess / priest role it still does for many within the shamanic world. Death rites not even completely speaking about physical death only. For instance there is the shadow self that faces death as part of the healing and promotion of identity. The shattered soul, one reason mental health was so critical when joining a group years ago. You were asked to look into the mirror of your own soul / spirit.
There are no advanced books because if you take the time to develop the basic skills as far as you can take them, you understand that you don't need any of the accoutrements of ritual. We are all living shards of the infinite one that is everything & the use & the meditation of those skills inevitably leads to that.
Feeeling kinda sheepish, I've been practising for about 1,5 years and have only now started to find actual witch books beyond the most common (harmony nice, skye alexander, scott cunningham). Instead, I've been reading dissertations on norse mythology and druidism - so i guess I'm kinda backwords in that respect x) It's nice to have a solid ground to stand on and to be able to tell for certain when the authors are historically wrong, but I really look forward to some more light read books!
I see the various systems of magick as different forms of language. Ceremonial magic, Sorcery and Witchcraft etc. are all saying the same things in different ways. There is really no “advanced” magick, there are complex systems and seemingly simple systems. Is French more “advanced” than English? (Don't ask French people that) Perhaps the question is: does what we are doing in ritual really matter to us in our own way? Must we stray into esoteric Christianity in order to find depth of meaning in our Pagan beliefs? I think what some folks are looking for are the roots of their Pagan faith, they are there, struggling for the sunlight.
Advanced depends on what You regard as Advanced. Religiously it is an understanding of the Old Gods a deepening life experience in their service and friendship. Magically going back to stone tools will not help us with Abrasive water-jet technology. We can look at the four Elements Five Elements or Ten Elements of the Quabballa but what are they trying to Describe ?? Simply put it is reality. The Quabballa The Tao Teh Ching Magic and Zen all have their own fields of ""understanding"" seeing these fields gives us a shape that has ""holes"" in it, these can be explored Psychally we know how to draw a Circle "up" into that "Place" where we work our magic. But what happens when we keep on going up ? There is the Magical Universe and the Munane. We always have a small working space. But mathematically Universe A = Universe B so why not turn the circle inside out ? a small sphere of Munane and us free to walk where we will and still be in magical space. Once we have gone on it is our Sacred DUTY to leave behind our findings for the next to use,
I sincerely hope that we don't see an emergence of tiktokers basterdizing Golden Dawn. This is the path I fell into organically without searching for "advanced practices". The path requures humility and respect and a lot of work. I feel strongly that some are looking for a short cut and more power due to an inflated ego. This practice can be dangerous if not proceeded with caution and care.
I disagree i have been a researcher in this field for the past 17 years.... U wanna go advanced u need to understand your deeper roots of wicca and this history version in these books are not the real roots. which goes even deeper.
