Where Gillette Went Wrong 

Feminists: "To tackle toxic masculinity men need to express themselves more." Men: "I feel this ad demeans and misrepresents me." Feminists: "Shut up, snowflake, manbaby, if you didn't like the ad you're probably a bad person."

I joined the Dollar Shave Club yesterday and sent them a message that it was because of the Gillette ad. And they responded and said they'll pass the message up to management! = )

"No woman can ever truly teach a boy to be a man" --Jurassic 5

My dislike was removed within seconds, again and again for over two days. I call this censorship.

The most upsetting part about all of this (and the Gillette ad is just one of many symptoms) is how so-called social justice warriors, in capturing so much of popular culture, have made sexism and racism normal and acceptable. These people wallow in a sense of self-righteousness because they think _their_ brands of sexism and racism are progressive and enlightened. They pick on the "correct" targets, after all . They are (or they imagine they are) forever "punching up". But nearly all sexists and racists think _they_ are enlightened or "punching up" at power. Even neo-nazis think they are "punching up" at a vast Jewish conspiracy, etc. It's all vile. Now giant corporations are shoving the far left's approved sexism and racism down our throats, so their execs can feel good about themselves. It's staggering what mainstream culture has become. If you showed any of this stuff to someone, even ten years ago, they'd scoff and think you were showing an over-the-top propaganda spoof from a dystopian fantasy.

I think you are being way way generous thinking that the ad was actually good inentioned. That's a big stretch.

I really want to thank you for making this thoughtful and sensitive video and for helping me to understand what it is about this ad that makes me so uncomfortable. I have tried to discuss it with feminist friends and these conversations have been incredibly discouraging and I have really felt that I have not expressed myself very well. This video really helps me to articulate some of the thoughts I have had about this particular ad, but also about the deep discomfort I have about the very concept of “toxic masculinity”. I have been watching your channel for several months now, along with the work of Jordan Peterson, Warren Farrell and other commentators, and as a woman it has helped me to understand men and men’s struggles so much better. Your work has helped me to be much more loving in my relationship and much less resentful, and that has helped so much. I also have a 6 year old son, and I have re-thought so much about the sort of upbringing I want him to have. I used to want to give him a “feminist upbringing” (whatever that is...!) but I am now much more open to his natural boyishness, his rebelliousness and his innate interests and am helping him to pursue the things he seems naturally drawn to - he is starting karate this week and I will make sure we continue to encourage him to follow his natural interests. He does a lot of rough-housing with his dad and he loves it and I now really respect that time they have together. It’s a difficult balance but I will do my best! Many thanks indeed for these great videos and discussions.

Heres my prob, the overall message to raise our kids to respect women is a fine enough message but the way they tackled it destroys that message. It mentions nothing of positive masculinity,just brands the vast majority of men as either having toxic masculinity or enabling it by not speaking out against others who are being toxic males. It treats the idea that masculinity as a whole is toxic,that its kind of like the idea of "original sin" The small minority that are truly toxic men or men guilty of rape etc are not the way they are because they were or were not told it was wrong,they do it despite that,in fact some do these things because they get a kick out of it being wrong. The reality is most guys are good descent people but this advert treats good men as an exception with its "some men are doing good" comment They conflate wolf whistling with metoo-which was originally about rape and sexual manipulation.Wolf whistling is barely even a thing,its talked about a ton but oddly barely ever seen or recorded but beyond that wolf whistling isn't in the same league as rape. Then theres just the fact people don't like being preached too,particularly when Gillettes parent company was caught using child labour etc. My number one prob though is the demasculation of men and boys,particularly young boys. Sure it can be counter productive to lock all our emotions away but its equally counter productive to let our emotions rule us. I mean a kid cries because he lost a game,i'll tell him "chin up kid,learn from this,train harder and maybe you'll win next time" in times gone by we'd call it stoicism,now days its called toxic masculinity because in a womans view i should comfort him and let him cry. Thing is crying won't make him better,it won't achieve anything,where as abit of stoicism will help.

I don't know if we have dysfunctional male-female relationships. I am married ( 31 years this year), I have a 28 y.o. son getting married this year, and a son-in-law, all very smart, delightful wonderful examples of males. We all get along famously. The community I live in has men I would describe in a similar fashion - overall wonderful gentlemen. I do notice however that the media, social platforms, television programming, and radio are telling me it exists. In real life, however, I don't witness it. I do believe we each as humans fall across a spectrum of dysfunction - but to say it's a widely held fact-based truth... I'm not there yet.

4:15 "sort of raced to a 10:1 dislike ratio and then it's come back somewhat" My dislike got deleted 2 times. So I believe people who claim they are deleting dislikes and comments.

Thank you for what you do. I think your contributions are always thought-provoking, rational and positive. I have subscribed!

Due to messages like this I sent more than 20 years hating myself and other men I just can't see any positive coming out of this PS I have found reloading the page shows that my dislike has been removed

Best exploration of this topic I've seen so far, bar none. Balanced, thoughtful, clear, perfect in tone, properly contextualized. Precisely the type of conversation we need to be having. Highest recommendation!

There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity". People can be toxic both men and women. It just depends IMHO on their upbringing, the path they choose or chose in life, the people they associate or have associated with, etc.

Most the ad really hurt me in two parts i am a shy and quiet man. However after my ex died from liver failure i not only became a long distance dad to my son but my exes little sister. Bare in mind she doesnt belong to me by blood but her dad rejected her when she was four. The reason they dont live with me is im high functioning autistic. So my only incomes disability. I felt i have been beat down my whole life because my disability then i get beat down even more by companies because i am a white male. I felt the ad focused very little on the good things us men can do or are doing. Particularly white males every time in the ad it was us bad white males doing things and another race came along to make us stop i heard a few other white males say the same thing. Very rarely were we portrayed in a positive light i am not racist mind you. However you cant make one race of males look better then another as well. I feel their is enough confusion in the world as is that we should only be judged by our actions. For example idk how many times i am told not many men would take in a child that didnt belong to them and was from when ex cheated on me however i did so because i felt she was dealt a unfair hand.

Gillette stepped on due process by buffing metoo in the ad.

This channel is becoming one of my favourites. Thank you and congrats on having 50,000+ subscribers.

11:11 "as men we should kind of hold each other accountable" No. It's a terrifying vision for the future. I'm only responsible for my actions and not the actions (or words) of other men or women. Yes, in some situations it may be morally virtuous to step in but it should never become a moral obligation - and that's what this ad said: you have to intervene or you're a bad man.

Great analysis. Thank you.

Gillette made and interesting decision: This add will not be shown in Muslim countries. Now why would that be? If this is all about responsibility and being the best men can be, why would they choose to not show it to a particular culture? Hmmm!

there are two identical versions of the video on the site with contradicting view vs dislike

Curious what you think of the Egard watch reaction commercial?

So did you hear the one about the old married couple who went to a relationship councilor and when the therapist asked, "What is your wife's favorite flower?" The man leaned in and kind of whispered to his wife, "It's Pillsbury, isn't it?"

23.40 - (My spelling (?)is not perfect) Thank you for high light different perspectives and sides of the experience of being a man. I did a study about elder care in Sweden and like he mentioned - suicides among men both young ( in there 20) and elderly men 70+). I was chocked. And as you mentioned in this video, I have also locked into the history of production, comsumption(?), development, war and attitude, hiarki(?).... And an other interest I have is to get my head around what´s happening in Sweden. With all the shootings, violence in the suburbs. Gangs. But also the attitude in the Akademic culture, economy, industry, industry and commerce and business sector. And I have looked into how we speak to one another. Expecations. Assumptions. Fears. And underlying family systems. So I find this video very interesting and it confirms the comlexity but also helps to zoom out. So instead to put the blame on someones choulders to - as we often do - when we se a problem we tend to focus on only ONE or a FEW people to salve or stand up for the "rest of the people". While we (I) refuse or are in capable to stand up or take action for important valiues, or behavior of how we should treat one another. But mort important - treat ourselves. I am working on a little project to help us comunicate and understand different processes in h o w we u s e one anothers time and service. Thanks for this video.

A very bad move i as a man will not be using any of their products. I advise other men do the same cliff australia

I was raised with three brothers. We were taught by our father great respect for our mother and all women. Whatever her decision regarding us, he always backed her. He led by example. Never an argument in front of us. A traditional family structure, yes, but with many great matriarchs in our extended family. Women you could seek life advice from anytime. I resent that now somehow I am called toxic. B.S. Gillette.

this was the single best, most objective non-whiney discussion on the Gillette ad. kudos

I Think the most problematic thing is Gillette telling boys they have to be the men of the future when they could be any gender they want.

I hope brands continue to expose their positions, men can make greater informed choices on what brands they support.

There's something valuable in the message of this ad. Of course we should be discouraging the negative masculine and encouraging the positive masculine. But it was just so, so unbelievably cringey, ham-fisted, sanctimonious, and condescending. With zero subtlety, nuance, or self-awareness. And I will not be lectured on morality by a pharmaceuticals conglomerate. Especially one with a history of shady business practices.

What are they talking about? What’s the ad?

From watching the Advert I can see they went wrong at 0:01 at started to get it right at 1:48.

Toxic masculinity or toxic femininity exist in the fringes. These terms do not apply to the general population. The way to behave is negotiated between the individuals involved. Both sexes have to have the guts to speak to their needs.

You've just earned yourself a new subscriber. Exemplary analysis and commentary. Thank you!

No mention of the racial asymmetry of the advertisement. The message is not just a shaming of men, but a shaming of white men. I'm surprised this has been missed.

YES!!!!! Right on the point for me: I’ve felt ashamed since childhood stemming from my picking up the vibes of the second wave feminism. I’m tired of others making me feel shame and guilt as a man. I’m done with those feelings. DONE!

need more channels like Rebel Wisdom

As a mother of sons, this issue matters to me because I love my sons and I want them to be fully rounded individuals, comfortable in themselves. I think the ad was far too preachy and not aspirational enough, as was pointed out in the vid. There are many aspects of masculinity that are admirable and deserve to be praised and encouraged. The aspects that may be less than admirable and should be discouraged can be without making an entire generation of young boys feel like they're bad from the start, like some kind of original guilt and sin.

Thanks. Here's a scenario: Let's say I"m going to the bank (just as an example.) As I'm walking up to the door, I see a woman who's also approaching. I hold open the door for her. But she stops, and says, "What's wrong with you? I don't need you to open doors for me! That's what's wrong with all you men - you think a woman's just helpless without you!" So chastened, I decide to 'learn my lesson.' The next week, I'm going to the bank again, and I see a different woman. Well, I'm certainly not going to make the same mistake twice! So I don't hold open the door. But she comes in after me and says, "What's wrong with you? Don't you know how to hold the door open for a lady? That's what's wrong with you men today: no respect!" I'm quite certain that there are a few women out there who'd find this situation hilarious. Those same women would also find it to be some kind of 'just desserts' for me - and for all men. This is a major problem. To that particular group of women I say this: You need to decide what it is you want. Because if you want equality, I absolutely agree that it should be so. But you seem, at least, to be more desirous of revenge. And you're not going to get it - not from me, anyway. Besides, I hold the door open for men, too. Ever think of that? tavi.

I've been trying to figure you guys out, would it be fair to say you're similar to the old mythopoetic men's movement?

We men will always be men : we are : 1 ) protectors 2) teachers 3) earners The best a man can be !

This was excellent. Great exploration of nuance... For one.

Lol the dollar shave club ad at the when I found this video

Which is it? This is why I took a step back with what society wants. The fact that men are listening but with these confusing messages only will lead us down a dark hole

Imagine they would show ISIS, terrorism, FGM etc. & ask Muslims to do better. Gilette would be so over & everyone involved would have 24/7 security. Even exchanging the genders would be enough to cause major damage. It's never okay to make whole groups feel guilty!

The conversation on the topic of men expressing their feelings seem to be based on a female definition of what it means to do so. When men understand that first and foremost they are allowed to feel then we can discuss what a male form of expressing these feelings can be. We as men find the female expression uncomfortable and have no desire to express our vulnerability to a response of pity, we see weakness in this manner of expression in which we are usually the rock for our dependent's. The evolution of men has to be their responsibility only. Women need to step back and allow us to find OUR way thru this.

Well done. Very sober analysis.

12:52 Shouts out to the fly on the table.

Use archive when referencing toxic journalism. You're not giving them traffic and they can't alter it later.

I probably wouldn't have bought Gillette anyway. I switched to Schick almost five years ago because they were the ones selling the four blade cartridges where I was, and came out with the fantastic five cartridge that had excellent lubricant. Hydro5 if I remember correctly. Then I got really interested in the old school safety razors. Not only were they cheap in the long run, but I found that it gave me better shaving results. Sure, one could argue if I used the same techniques and shaking ritual I learned to modern shaving paraphernalia, I'd get the same or even better results. However, the price is still a sticking point. In the end, while the ad would never have really convinced me to either return to them or not, I think it's a mistake worse than what Nike did. At least those guys didn't have the nerve to attack their customer base blatantly, unlike Gillette. Face palm worth indeed.

Great video guys. Keep the content coming...

Lecturing people on how bad they are and how they've "wronged" everyone without any evidence or them actually doing anything is a great way to pigenhole yourself as a really hateful company. I find it really fascinating how all of these people seeking to "expose" hate only expose their own.

Thanks, this was a helpful conversation.

idk man, maybe i'm not over thinking it, but the ad felt pretty innocuous to me. this doesn't mean that i didn't agree with many of the concern raised against it. they seem warranted and i'm inclined to agree. yet i nonetheless felt no visceral reaction against it. i even gave it a like (gasp). love you guys' content though; keep up the good work :-) edit: see @Mark Schoch 's comment. i think he hit the proverbial nail best.

Very thoughtful presentation. I will be sharing.

Thank you Gillette for opening the eyes of so many more MEN

I think they could have come up with an Ad that focused on positive encouragement of good male behaviour without making sweeping generalisations about men and what it is to be masculine, no need for politicaly charged wording like "Toxic Masculinity" and because of this they've pissed a lot of their customer base off, nearly 1 million dislikes on RU-vid. The Always Ad Like a girl about female empowerment was much better, much more positive, they should have gone this way in my opinion.

A woman directed this advert... a woman directed a commercial for men about how men can be better men... Imagine a man making an Tampon advert telling women to stop being toxic and to be better women... amazing.

That's quite a well constructed perspective. Thanks.

I am now a Wilkinson Sword/Schick MAN now; bonus it's HALF the price!

2 minutes 30 seconds to unpack the fact that this will take time to unpack

Don't agree with individual points in the Ad either! Looks like the advertisement industry is not in touch with the real world. Instead of explaining, simply accept the feedback as a given by a majority of male viewers, and move on from there...

I'm switching to Wilkinson

good video. well thought out. thanks!

How is stoicism harmful? They've done research and found contrary to expectation that people who talked about their problems weren't happier for it, yet people who bore their troubles with stocism were generally happier.

I find it odd that you didn't notice the projection of reality through an intersectional feminist lens. Relational aggression is not an exclusively male activity, married with children is not the standard for sitcoms (Who watches TV anyway?), Cartoons are not stuck in the 50s, and women get paid large sums of money to make themselves objects of male attention in music videos. While there may still be creepy managers and board members in large companies, a great deal of men are now shying away from having any contact with women in the professional world. First people mocked the Mike Pence rule, now they're taking notes and women are complaining that the post metoo era has resulted in mistrust and a loss in career building and networking opportunities. The phrase "Boys will be boys" is rarely to never used in common parlance, and when the phrase is used, it is never as an excuse for unacceptable behavior. The structure of the campaign is similar to the stereotypical married couple arguments. The wife (Feminists) is reaching back through time to bring up examples of stuff the husband (Men) did or said years ago, trying to suggest that he is still doing or saying the same thing now. (I'm sure quite a few people remember Anita's analysis of video games, all opinion, no number crunching) To top it off, the campaign suggests that the majority of men are the bad ones, while there are a few good ones. Quite the flip on reality.

Dropping that knowledge! Loving it and not even half way done yet!!!

I think the case study for this is should be the difference in the comments sections of RU-vid and LinkedIn. HR departments are eating this stuff up and anyone with half a brain, and values their job prospects, either tentatively agrees with the sentiment or keeps their opinions to themselves.

@12:31 exactly! Should consumer brands tell people how to behave? He then goes on that typically this is domain of religion or philosophy.

The problem with that advert was that the person who made it clearly hates men.

I came here for more people taking the piss out of Gillette but I stayed for the Warren Farrell.

Warren Farrell has an extraordinary insight into human behaviour.

The problem with the ad, from my perspective as a conscientious man, is that they assume the majority of men are bad; they say "some" behave well. "Some". This is unacceptable, this is stereotyping, this is signal-boosting the harmful idea that men are by default bad/abusive/evil.

Ok, that's it! - I'm gonna push weights - drink beer - piss on a lamp post - piss in the sink - chew on a T-Bone - wear yesterday's boxers - grow a beard - grow some weed - talk loud - shout - say "shut up"! - smoke hash - pipe some charlie - punch the wall - rob the corner shop - crap in the garden - chase a rabbit - jump in a puddle - drink more beer - toss the bottle - watch some porn - knock one out - buy a gun - kick my pit-bull - hit the pub - watch some football - eat a curry - then another - plus more beer - smoke a fat one - pop a pill - kill a red bull - splak a yatee - splak two yatees - smack an idiot - punch a fed... and generally behave like the very very naughty boy I've been repressing for all of these long long years!!

Maybe I’m alone, but I didn’t get the message that all men were toxic. Half the men here were trying to prevent bullying behavior to continue or from happening at all. Leading by example. Sometimes you have to extinguish a fire before you can learn what started it.

Where are the toxic feminity videos? Wheres dove bringing out an ad on hiw women get to emotional.

I liked the old lynx adverts

I already mentioned one of the fundamental human faults "tendency to think in binary extremes" several times in replies to your videos. The term fundamental isnt there as an overblown description. And this case is one of its outbreaks, again. It permeates everything. Along several other equally fundamental ones. The commercial is a distortion fueled by it and reactions to it are the same. The difference is only in variations and degrees. I suggest instead of talking about men and women and what each should do and be or whatever, we start talking about Humans that we all are, including all our differences which are real but minuscule compared to what we all share. Biologically and in every other way. Because that is a greater overarching empirical truth of who we are that includes the sexes and genders and everything in between. And its the only way to avoid being distorted into binary extremes.

I am a man, but a Human Being First. I applaud Gillette. Join the growing movement to put respect for all others and basic human decency at the forefront of everything, business and corporate ethics and day to day human relations in every sphere. The men who howl about this, may have macho bodies and aggressive instincts, but they need to work on enlarging their understanding of what it means to be a decent human being. Come on guys! You can do better.

I hold PEOPLE accountable for bad behaviour. I don't discriminate on grounds of gender. And as for 'toxic masculinity' in the 1950s being the only problem. What planet are you from, please?

it is bizarre that anybody would argue that women have no power. they have impactful power in all facets and aspects of life and business, and that feels normal and natural.

Today I purchased my first Post-Gillette shaving kit in so many years. So long Gillette, you lost our business too and that of My Sons also.

Brilliant analysis!

thank you

Thank you! Love You Guys!

You must take a course in advertising Rebel Wisdom. It's not about the message.

I think the ad provokes a useful discussion, such as the one these guys are having. But the ad itself is not giving helpful messages in my view. There's no indication of the men who decide to intervene in these situations holding back for a few seconds to consider whether their intervention is actually needed. Too much intervention can be as dysfunctional as too little. Interfering with kids' play is a particular minefield as you could be impeding important learning and socialising opportunities. I doubt even an expert in psychology and conflict resolution would see fit to adopt such a dictatorial (here's how you should do it) approach in a short film as Gillette does.

The primary reason that toxic behaviour exists in some men is that women have been rewarding it for millennia.

Gellete no longer gets my toxic money

It's very simple. Ask the question: Would a company make a commercial for women based on a very bad stereotype of women - for example psychological damage to kids when mothers sabotage visitation rights of the father, or single mothers smacking their children? No, it wouldn't. And then ask the question: Why wouldn't it?

Thank you so much for this important and intelligent discussion!

Nice reporting, but the bottom line is they "Gillette" have competitors and I will buy those products.

well said!

The problem is that this is only half the conversation. Don't ask men to be better without asking what you (women) are going to do better. This add was insulting in that is seemed to presume that only men/masculinity generates this "toxic" behaviour.

Where Gillette went wrong - They decided to make an ad

Just imagine someone hired a male director to direct a campaign to tell women who they should behave.

Gillette deleted my totally civil critique comment.

While I do like that men's rights is being talked about, I noticed that you don't quite understand the whole picture here. The reason why we have this problem is because of the terrible ideas that feminism as a whole brought. The idea of "men bad women weak" is not new, and the first wave held that idea in their core. For example, the white feather is the event where women gave men and boys white feathers. For those who don't know, the white feather meant cowardliness in Britain.

Knowing that the same person is responsible for This Girl Can and Men Are Inherently Awful gives me a really *really* bad impression of that person's gender equality credentials, and even her (I assume it was a woman - I'll be even more dispirited if it was a man) level of humanity. I'd have expected a similarly motivational campaign talking about positive masculine traits and encouraging men to get out there (after using Gillette products) and not let anyone make them feel ashamed. Someone needs to make that advertising campaign.

When you generalise an entire class based upon its worst possible examples, you will never reach any valid conclusions. Isnt this the exact reason we dont judge all Muslims by the acts of Islamic terrorists?