historical research proves that the city of Mecca could not have existed as a large commercial caravan city in the years 600 AD Main reasons for this fact are: 1) Mecca is not an oasis, so there is no surface water (only a well, known as zamzam which is clearly unsufficient and inappropriate for watering many caravan camels) 2) Mecca is not shown on any map at that time or even previously 3) Mecca is located down of Hidjaz plateau and could therefore not be located on the caravan route which is located more than 1000 m above on the plateau (eg the city of Taeef is located at an altitude of ca 2000 m while Mecca is at 300 m) 4) there were no archeological remains or artefacts (coins, potteries, ruins, bones etc) discovered in Mecca dating from before circa year 700 It is impossible that a large city would leave no trace at all of its past 5) no agriculture whatsoever is possible in this wild rocky desert location, how could a large city survive in such hostile environment ?
historical research proves that the city of Mecca could not have existed as a large commercial caravan city in the years 600 AD Main reasons for this fact are: 1) Mecca is not an oasis, so there is no surface water (only a well, known as zamzam which is clearly unsufficient and inappropriate for watering many caravan camels) 2) Mecca is not shown on any map at that time or even previously 3) Mecca is located down of Hidjaz plateau and could therefore not be located on the caravan route which is located more than 1000 m above on the plateau (eg the city of Taeef is located at an altitude of ca 2000 m while Mecca is at 300 m) 4) there were no archeological remains or artefacts (coins, potteries, ruins, bones etc) discovered in Mecca dating from before circa year 700 It is impossible that a large city would leave no trace at all of its past 5) no agriculture whatsoever is possible in this wild rocky desert location, how could a large city survive in such hostile environment ?
Some excerpts from the book "Sense and Sensibility in Islam" There is physical evidence that the Arabic language as revealed in the Scriptures is a product of the Nabataeans who were dominant in the Jordan/Palestine area.• Mecca (in Saudi Arabia) cannot be found on any ancient trade map or recorded as a center for pilgrimage or major religious activity before the seventh century CE. 37:133-138 And certainly, Lot was one of the messengers; when We saved him and all his people, except the incapable ones among those lagging behind (some of Lot’s people tarried); then, We “destroyed” the rest (who didn’t depart); and you (Oh! Prophet), pass by their ruins in the morning; and in the night. Do you not understand?”Patricia Crone was aware of this verse, but many “Muslims” are not. The part where it states: “you pass by their ruins in the morning and in the night.” What about the one that states “not very far from you”? Distances in those days were a journey, but for God to say “not very far from you”(see below) implies a destination quite close, otherwise, how could the Prophet pass by morning and evening? 11:89 “And, O my people, let not your dispute with me drive you into what befell the people of Noah, or the people of Hud or the people of Saleh: and (note that) the people of Lot lived not very far from you!” a verse from the Quran which does give room for a lot of thought. The verse is depicted below: The picture that we get from these verses is that, as Crone has indicated, the Prophet of Arabia originated from a region in northwest Arabia. Exactly where we are not certain but quite close to the region of the Dead Sea in what is Jordan today. The region inhabited by Shoaib’s people extended from what is known today as the Gulf of Aqabah to the mountains of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the vicinity of where Sodom and Gomorrah were situated. The word biba’id meaning “not very far” from you is pretty relative when you think of distances in those days. The intent was that it wasn’t far. This might suggest that Prophet Muhammad (the praised one) lived in the vicinity of that region. Well, it seems to prove that Patricia Crone is on the right track. What do we make of this verse? Are we just to ignore it and continue with our tunnel vision of what we have been “fed” with all these centuries without questioning? That would certainly not be what Allah wants us to do as rational, thinking human beings whom He created.
Enough evidence.. Muhammad passing by the place of Lot day and night.. This one single verse makes me believe it is in modern day Petra. The Torah has so much evidence about this. Thats why they say they are hiding it and know it like their children.
El selem aleikoum biba'id I always understood that it meant they are not far from you in time. I m not saying I m right at all. Both meanings could be understood but anyway it changes nothing to the fact the true Mecca has to be very close to the ruins of the people of Lot. In deen I always prefer to keep more options rather than just assuming one meaning and Allah knows best. Surah 7 ayat 82 ( keep in mind kariya in arabic it means a village not a city) وَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهِۦٓ إِلَّآ أَن قَالُوٓا۟ أَخْرِجُوهُم مِّن قَرْيَتِكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُمْ أُنَاسٌۭ يَتَطَهَّرُونَ But the answer of his people was only that they said, "Evict them from your village! Indeed, they are men who keep themselves pure." surah 11 ayat 82 was very badly translated in english I tried to correct it the best I could فَلَمَّا جَآءَ أَمْرُنَا جَعَلْنَا عَـٰلِيَهَا سَافِلَهَا وَأَمْطَرْنَا عَلَيْهَا حِجَارَةًۭ مِّن سِجِّيلٍۢ مَّنضُودٍۢ ٨٢ When Our command came, We turned the village upside down and rained down on them clustered stones of hard clay, In this verse it s not plural it just mentions one place because people often speak of sodome and gomora that are not even mentionned in Quran ( I guess it s from sheytan s hadith). Quran speaks of one kariya in the case of Lot that he turned upside down.
Languages spread so just because it is thought Arabic originated in northern Arabia does not stop it from being spoken in Southern Arabia. And Patricia Crone conveniently forgot that Meccans had trade caravan routes as mentioned in Surah Quraysh in the Quran and these routes would pass by the ruins of the people of Lot.
There is a third option, that he was not born at all! If enough of what we are told about him proves false, this becomes the default option, I'm afraid.
Nice summary that I assume is based off Gibson's research. As a muslim do you feel this means we should face Petra in prayer since the quran commands to face the masjid al-haram? Curious about your thoughts
From recent lexical analysis It appears that what is referred to as "muhammad" in the quran (which means "the praised one") is not a name but a title which refers to Jesus, as the prophet and messiah. So early muslims (not called muslims but mumineen) were in fact anti-trinitarian christians who accepted Jesus as prophet and messiah but rejected his divine nature (this is why he is always called "issa ibn Meryam" in the quran, but not son of God)
@@jeangatti9384 Fun fact: Jesus never asked anyone to worship him and called himself God! By the way, his name isn't Jesus!!! J doesn't exist in the Hebrew language!!!
Glad you bring this up as a Muslim. An honest Muslim, because you just proved Islam not to be a true religion with all due respect. I pray that you seek the truth in the one and true living God.
Truth is in the eye of the beholder, we all see things based on our inherence or base on our own journey to find the truth, it’s not about proving one religion wrong over the other, it’s about some if not most rules are man made and that we shouldn’t put God in a position of a dictator, instead in a position of love and peace
@@truthseeker123 I see where you’re coming where you’re coming from but I’d love to have a one-on-one talk with you! You seem like a very unique individual. There is one truth my dear brother and we are all given free will to dwell within the one and only truth that has been and is being revealed to us. I’m thankful that you even responded!
@@truthseeker123brother you are right true kaba is in Jordan Petra which was the true kaba made by prophet kaba and in time of prophet there were kaba of each tribe but the true kaba which prophet Muhammad made pilgrimage to was in Petra, and this has been revealed by the riser of the family of Muhammad qaim which paves the way for imam Al Mahdi he is his messenger please try to read the book ‘ Goal of the wise ‘ by Abdullah hashem everything will make sense why Islam is like this today which is furtherest from Islam , anyone with logic and the seeking for real truth will find out the truth
Mecca is a desolate valley as mentioned in the Quran Surah Ibrahim ayah 37. Your ayah that you refer to mentions nothing about Mecca growing fruits but that they will provided with fruits which can be by trade: "And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a secure city and provide its people with fruits - whoever of them believes in Allāh and the Last Day." [Allāh] said, "And whoever disbelieves - I will grant him enjoyment for a little; then I will force him to the punishment of the Fire, and wretched is the destination.""
@@JohnSmith-gv7qm Good analysis but the city that you call Mecca is not even near any ancient known trade route. So fruits(not fruit) traded here and being provided to those living here doesn't seem logical. Moreover fruits don't last long, they decay fast. Another thing is, that place is blessed. A blessed place is not arid, it has sufficient rainfall and vegetation.
@@shahidanfurqan The city of Mecca, located in Saudi Arabia, is linked to the Incense Road and this road is how Arabian frankincense and myrrh among other goods could reach the Levant, Egypt, and beyond. There are agricultural centres near Mecca that can support fruits, especially mountainous regions that receive rainfall such as Taif and 'Asir. Blessed places can be arid. One such example is the arid Valley of Tuwa adjacent Mount Sinai in the Sinai Desert where Allah spoke to Musa for the first time, as mentioned in the Quran Surah Taha ayah 20 and Surah An-Naziat ayah 16.
@@JohnSmith-gv7qm But what about Petra or Jerusalem? They are also near an ancient trade route as far as I presume. And what about the ruins of an ancient house in Petra and two elevated places near it named 'safa' and 'marwa'? I haven't been to Arabia but don't you think these should also be comsidered?
@@shahidanfurqan You stated that Mecca was not linked to a trade route and I corrected you. A city an ancient house, if it actually was one, does not prove that Petra was ever "Mecca". Otherwise Mada'in Saleh in Saudi Arabia, also inhabited at one point by Nabateans, which also has ancient houses and temples could also be considered a "Mecca". This is absurd since Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) actually passed by Mada'in Saleh. Provide proof that those two supposed rock formations were called Safa and Marwa in the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). This is a false claim by Dan Gibson, and he only has assumptions and no hard proof. If you want to read a real academic non-Muslim historian that refutes this Petra theory by Dan Gibson then I recommend Prof. David A. King's work "The Petra fallacy - Early mosques do face the Sacred Kaaba in Mecca but Dan Gibson doesn't know how / Comparing historical orientations with modern directions can lead to false results".
بالنسبة لزمزم موجود في بترا بردوا ؟ دوروا كده هنا ولا هنا ..ولا خليه المسجد الحرام عند المسجد الاموي دمشق حلو بردوا...ارحموا ميت*ن اللي خلفونا .. مبنسمعش ابداعات وتخريف الا عن الاسلام ..بيقولك الاقتراب من اليهودية انتي سبميتزم اوعى !!!
Dan Gibson shows how earlier mosques point towards Petra. But what about the mosque in Madina. Madina is situated between Petra and Mecca. Had Petra been the original Mecca the Mosque of the prophet in Madina would have pointed towards Petra but the grave of Prophet is towards Petra and the direction of the mosque is towards Mecca. It’s that simple! It’s just a conspiracy to confuse Muslims! The way CIRA international spreads this conspiracy theory, the way that host claims that he was Muslim and converted now, it’s all an agenda of Christian missionaries and they will fail inshaaAllah, no that host is a planted one and it will soon reveal InshaaAllah.
From recent lexical analysis It appears that what is referred to as "muhammad" in the quran (which means "the praised one") is not a name but a title which refers to Jesus, as the prophet and messiah. So early muslims (not called muslims but mumineen) were in fact anti-trinitarian christians who accepted Jesus as prophet and messiah but rejected his divine nature (this is why he is always called "issa ibn Meryam" in the quran, but not son of God)
@@jeangatti9384 It is said that Muhammad (Qutham) has had an experience with the Angel Gabriel in the cave. And later he told this to his wife Khadija and her cousin Waraqa. Was Waraqa an anti trinitarian christian as well?
Do you know where you were born? Where was your father born? Your grandfather? Your great grandfather? You remember what your father taught you? Some decent things? That's more important. Remember those good things. Similarly, Prophet pbuh taught things like: Truthfulness Honesty Charity Courage Patience in adversity Struggle against tyranny Prayer to the one creator That's important to remember.
This biased theory from Dan Gypson has already been proven wrong scientifically and theologically. Please don't make fun of yourself. Petra theory is just nonsense
@@truthseeker123 Mecca is mentioned in psalms 84 as Becca, similarly in qiran 3:96 there is also the fact the well of zamzam, safa and Marwa, the city of madina and various places such as badr, ahud, and most importantly pre Islamic poems talking about Mecca. But most importantly Diodorus Siculus, 60-30 B.C in his Bibliotheca Historica, he pursued the western shores of the Arabian Peninsula from the Gulf of Akaba(Jordan) through the Red Sea(Saudi Arabia) to the Gulf of Aden(Yemen). He mentioned the temple that was holy to all Arabians, p. 217; 44 1 "Next after these plains as one skirts the coast comes a gulf of extraordinary nature. It runs, namely, to a point deep into the land, extends in length a distance of some five hundred stades, and shut in as it is by crags which are of wondrous size, its mouth is winding and hard to get out of; for a rock which extends into the sea obstructs its entrance and so it is impossible for a ship either to sail into or out of the gulf. 2 Furthermore, at times when the current rushes in and there are frequent shiftings of the winds, the surf, beating upon the rocky beach, roars and rages all about the projecting rock. The inhabitants of the land about the gulf, who are known as Banizomenes, find their food by hunting the land animals and eating their meat. And a temple has been set up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians." So we can see that it's actually Mecca... The view the it's "petra" completely disregards all the other things we know about prophet Muhammad.
@@ayhemshaban9745Mecca is not Becca in the Bible. If anything it was copied and misspelled by the Bible? Not too sure. I feel sorry for you that you believe in that! The Quran needs the Bible to survive, but the Bible does not need the Quran at all!
