Which is Better? 2017 Manual vs 2023 X-Drive Competition 

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Love how every shot narrowly avoids showing the G80s grille haha Even the tumbnail! Good job!

They should've tested the F80 competition, which fixes a lot of the gripes people had with the original. Also, the LCI F80 had the nob and touch screen, just like the G80.

I am 62 yrs old and bought my f80 new 9yrs ago 110k miles with ohlins suspension. Manual transmission and its staying in my garage

Had an F80 DCT, for the most part loved it for Dad duty but missed a manual. Ordered a G80 manual, spec'd exactly as I wanted, waited the 5 months for it to built, etc. Drove it home for the first time in January and it felt so similar to my wife's X3 I got a lump in my throat. Buyer's remorse bad. Matt hit it on the head. The F80 feels like a sports car even when going slow, the G80 hauls the mail and no doubt the chassis has much higher limits and is fun at those limits but for most of your daily driving its just too soft. Can't keep of the sites looking for a cherry F80 manual or Blackwing.

Now THIS is the Smoking Tire that I have missed! Pure car speak, pure enthusiast information. I have stuck in as a subscriber despite significant differences and through the lack of "Tuned" type content. If you want views keep making this type of video. We get enough political opinions from the rest of the world and come to places like this to escape the tribalism and enjoy our car tribe. Thank you guys for producing an informative car nerd video after what seems like years of hiatus. Bravo

As an F82 Competition owner I would never change my baby to a G82! No matter how much more horsepower it has, that's not everything!

I'm totally with Matt here and love the looks so much more of the older M3. Love the interior, no hideous grill and the overall simpcity of the package. Also, he's spot on when it comes to the dashboard and actual gauges and love the analogue dials. In the real world, you don't need any more power.. Just have a few thousand for maintenance on hand.

My G80 was a manual with the normal seats (Tartufo leather is ONLY available in regular seats in the US). I adored that car, put nearly 75k miles on it between Nov 2021 and Dec 2023. I still think the F80 is prettier, but the G80 is the absolute answer for a new, do it all car for enthusiasts. I spent as much time taking my daughter to school as I did burning through Michelins on backroads in various states. Mine also had the 2 screen setup versus the large single screen of the LCI M cars. The looks never bothered me since you can’t see the front of the car from the drivers seat, but I am having the same amount of fun in my newly acquired E36 vert despite being MUCH slower. Admittedly… seeing my daughter giggle with hands in the wind like she’s on a roller coaster from the back seat may be the reason I hold this car in such high regard.

I’ve owned both of these, and Matt nailed it. The G80 is a bit boring and too heavy. It’s only fun at the limit…which you rarely hit on public roads

As the owner of an f80 that sees 80% track time, I love this content. Thanks guys. Would love to hear a little CT4-V BW comparo thrown in as a middle ground price point.

Funny thing is that people said the same thing about the E9x vs F8x and how not engaging the F8x is but how fast it is compared to the E9x

Love my 2016 F82 Competition and I plan on driving it for another 5-10 years. No mechanical issues at all and still looks great. 60K miles and not a single rattle. Big smile every time my garage door goes up. 👍😉🏁 Agree with Matt about the analog gauges. I’ll go analog with as many buttons as possible for as long as possible 😉

I’ve owned my E90 M3 for over 7 years. I know I’m in the minority of M3 owners but I like the F80 and G80 quite a lot. The G80’s are insanely fast. I like that the F80 still has a double clutch available. I’m the weirdo that wouldn’t take a manual in either option. The manual transmissions are kinda crap. The electric power steering isn’t as good but hydraulic supremacy in my E90 will be hard to beat. Good video friends.

I owned a manual f80 for 2 years, a dct f87 m2 competition for 1 year and now i have a g80 m3 xdrive since 5 months. The f80 for a daily with the manual transmision was not so fun, but as a fun car it was good, never loved the manual transmision of the f80. The m2 comp felt special in every case and the dct gearbox was great. The G80 as a daily is not so special(maybe the coupe form gives some specialness for the m4), you need to floor it always otherwise it is like a normal 3 series with the sport seats, but i never felt like i didn’t want to daily the car unlike the f80 and f87. If i start to get bored, i go on winding roads and i realize how great the g80 is. For me the G80 is much better.😊

FYI, the later year F80 has a touchscreen that's just coded out for some reason. You can turn it on with some simple codes, and it works great except that the screen is a little far away. I'm guessing that's why it's not on by default. If we're going to highlight forged internals then I think some basic coding can be in the convo. Overall, the f80 has been great for some light mods, not sure how the 100k G89 holds in that respect.

Huh. I could not disagree more. I've had the F80 M3, an F82 M2, an M2 Competition, and now have that same drivetrain in an X3M Comp.. and I really do not like the new ones. There is something squirrely about the xDrive system that does unpredictable things when you're thrashing it. The old cars behave as you expect them to, you can rip the car as hard as you want and the rear behaves predictably. Now I don't think that's the case. Sure, for track driving I have no dobut the G80 is faster. But in terms of just sliding the car around and getting in trouble, I think the F80 was the end of the era.

well, I went with the G80 RWD competition without the carbon buckets. also drops the msrp from $100k+ for the xdrive to around $86k. my best friend had a 2014 F82 and than 2018 F80 comp, so I know how those drives. Also it is pretty tough to find a F80 with lower mileage that is under $50k and dealing with the reliability issue with the older car.

Manual is always the way to go!

I love how you censored the front of the car.

@8:50 aren’t all M3’s “knob operated”?….

I’ve never driven either, but just remember the f80 getting absolutely savaged in the car magazines when it was released.

IMHO, g80 is definitely a better car overall. Like the video said, better suspension. S58 is way better than the s55 in terms of power delivery and tuning potentials. The interior is way better than the f80 interior(gauge clusters and buttons are personal preference). The option to have 4wd in the g80 is a game changer. The CB seats are sexy AF(if you fit). Not to mention all the tech you can do with the app such as remote start from anywhere and located your car with the touch of a button. if you want old school, E92 is where it’s at. The F80 IMO is a transition model to the refine G80 platform. I do miss the power dome on the f80 hood tho..

I’m definitely bias but I absolutely love the f series cars. The styling is excellent both exterior and interior, plus I love physical buttons. A touchscreen equals a dirty screen.

9:25 THE BLURRED FACE OF THE G80 LMFAO I do think the F80 is a compelling used buy but I think whenever I'm within firing range of an M3, I'd wait for the G80. It has the E36 badboy smut factor, it's completely unloved rn. It's the M3 996. I like that about it. It's maximum M3 obnoxiousness But... the F80 is getting down there. The nuances are definitely interesting! Definitely think though that the OG M2 is the 2010s BMW I'd consider buying

Having just gone from a comp DCT F80 to a manual G80. I agree with Matt. There's a certain.. rowdiness or fuzziness that's missing. The relatively uncouth nature of the F80 is definitely missed. How it is so peaky. How the DCT was lurchy. The F80 was special even at low speeds. The G80 you'd have to push it really hard to enjoy it. The things we lose in the name of progress.

Yall are gold and i appreciate how it isnt just bashing one of the cars. Keep up the good work

Awesome video guys, I'm a little late to watching it, but this is one of the best Ive seen on the channel in a while! F80 for me

A comparison I’d love to see as their prices seem to be getting very close together or at least will be in a couple years is a used F80 vs used CT4V Blackwing.

Cammisa commented on this: It’s crazy that zoomers on TikTok already think that the F80 is really old. Makes me feel like the old one.

I have 2020 M4 Comp.. DCT. My car has the LCI tweaks.. the S55 has forged internals .so I’m not sure what you guys were talking about. I don’t know what year F8 M3 guys are driving, but Bmw revised the suspension for the LCI competition and power delivery is amazing. My car is the heritage edition package and I have the Mperformance suspension. G80 is a slapping of Jenkee in between car that Bmw built to hold them over for the electric stuff.

This was a fun video to watch!! Both generations are excellent IMO. I do wish I could have loaned you my 18 as it’s a near stock Competition model 6M with 1/5 the miles of the red one. Turner shifter bushings and upgraded trans mount also solve the meh shifter feel so overall the car is excellent to drive.

Love this style of head to head with you guys! It seems like head to heads aren’t very common anymore but they’re so interesting.

As usual, I agree with a lot of the points in this video. Coming out of my 6MT E46 M3 coupe, I wanted a newer M car as a semi-daily driver and weekend backroads cruiser, but didn't know if I wanted to go F chassis or G chassis (I drove a 6MT E92 M3, loved the S65 but the ownership experience isn't for me). Background - I work for a high line car dealer and get to drive just about everything from relatively affordable sports cars, to 7-figure hypercars, and everything in between. Ended up buying a CPO '20 F82 M4 Competition with the DCT. I've driven a G80 Competition Xdrive (auto) and a G82 Competition (RWD, auto) and I like just about everything about my F82 more, minus the extra power from the S58. I like the DCT over the 8 speed auto, it seems to just have more personality. The biggest swing to me was the exterior styling and the interior on the F8x cars. The 2018+ F8x cars feel right in that sweet spot of timelessness - more modern feeling thanks to the LCI in 2018, but still physical buttons for important things and physical analog gauges, with toys like HUD and wireless Apple CarPlay. Also, in 2019 and 2020, the MMI screen in the M4 is a touch screen. The Competitions also got quite a bit of suspension and differential revision to help with a lot of the complaints on the earlier F8x cars. I can't think of another sports car I'd like to own, at least for the way I use my car, short of $100k. It really is a great platform.

Just got my g80 m3. In black I actually love the way it looks but the technology is brutal . I daily drive a 5th gen 4 runner so I hate not having buttons or an analog dash in the beamer. I guess I will get use to it. Still in break in period. Time will tell. Great video !

Also should’ve mentioned that pre-2023 M3s do have two screens (iDrive 7.5) if you want a new M3 without the big LCD screen I’d highly recommend getting a 2022

I have a manual e36m sedan and manual e46m. I love both but I had an Evo 8 prior and really miss the boost. There’s something about an f80 with the 666m wheels that makes me want to get rid of both

So I own an e92 M3 dct comp. Bought a comp f80 manual. Sold the f80 because I kept comparing it to my e92 and how dull it felt. When I sold it I realized that you cannot compare it to the e9x. From the f80 to the g80 they mastered the everyday sport car luxury sedan which the e9x is a lot of car to drive on the daily. I ended up buying a manual g80. In many ways it feels like the f80. The tech feels relatively the same because I bought a really low optioned g80. The g80 has a nice linear build of boost versus the f80. The g80 sounds a bit better than the f80. But, I will have to say the f80 was the Pinnacle of exterior design. The g80 is beautiful to me despite the grill, but the f80 was undeniably beautiful to everyone. Now, I got a 2022 manual g80 so it does not have that the humongous screen. Aside from black wheels, sport line lights, interior carbon, and bucket seats it does not have any other options adding to tech so i think that may be the way to go when optioning a g80. I'll have to say my only gripes with the g80 is the interior is nice but very creaky over bumps. I feel like the e90x was more put together. I also do not like how the g80 idles and sounds as it idles. It's not a very smoothe motor when at a standstill. But with that being said my heart still thinks the e9x models are the best. The high redline and V8 sound cannot be replicated aside from comparing it to vehicles that are in another league such as a gt3 or a zo6 that have that high revving exotic sound and feel. Due to the fact that I can't purchase either of those, in choose to keep the e9x. I also feel that the g80 may be the final manual/ all motor non electric m car so it will be worth keeping as well as an ode to the Pinnacle of a generation

Trying to emulate the EverydayDriver format now?

Digging the thumbnail!

He mentions forged internals and b58s. He’s comparing to a S55 which has forged internals and a closed deck.

Hell yeah F80 all the way, find a good one & spend a little money getting it sorted, you'll be fine, Rj in Oz

Reviewers/journalists always dog on every new M3 and then sing their praises when the successor comes out. Look at the history- E90 comes out: too soft, lost the I6, too plain, etc. F80 comes out: too harsh, unfeeling, sounds bad, etc. G80 comes out: bloated, not emotional/special, ugly, etc. The truth is every M3 has been excellent, and the newer model is always substantially better than the old. They did not effectively communicate how much better/faster the G80 is than the F80, it is SHOCKING. And the value play doesn't make sense because you can get a used G80 for mid 60's all day.

Really liked this format. Can we get an F30 340i vs G20 M340i next? Or anything Boss 302 related

Funnily enough a CTR is what I’m considering at the moment - truth is it’ll come with a warranty and likely be reliable and 300bhp is enough for the road… Might have to drive an F80 to make sure though…

I've got the F80. Absolutely love it! 🔥🔥🔥

The b58 has forged rods and a forged crank, which is one of the reasons it can make so much power reliably. What forged pieces is the b58 missing compared to the s58?

9:26 absolute comedic genius right here.

At the end of the day people are almost exclusively buying the g80 xdrive to mod for straight line speed. Downpipes, tune, and some ethanol and you have a 700+whp car that does 60-130 in the 4s and 5s on the stock motor/trans. Also running sub 9.5s (plaid times) in the 1/4.

5:05 huh so I had to check on this. Yes the S58 has fully forged internals, while the S55 has forged aluminum alloy pistons and piston rings BUT cast conrods. B58 has arguably a larger aftermarket due to the larger demograph, and has a forged crank and conrods but cast piston.

I used to watch TheSmokingTire every day years ago. Why is he only at 1.08M subs? Should be at 3M+ subs. This guy is a legend in the car review space.

The E92 was the perfect M3. Its balance , incredible handling and insane V8 8000rpm changes with the perfect DCT ... it had such theatric SOUL. I replaced the E92 with an F82 .. Sold the M4 after 3 months.. Hated it. Did I mention the throttle down shift blips on the E92 ?

I can’t be the only one cross-shopping both M3s and the Integra Type S. Price aside which is the more fun car for the canyons?

The effort to avoid showing the grille 😂 good job

Depending on what MY the F80 is, the infotainment screen might be touch screen

So happy I went with F80 Comp!

Getting some Everyday Driver vibes from this format, which is not a bad thing! I think the G80 makes more sense if you look at it like an M5. These cars are no longer about raw fun. It's close in size to the e39 with a more refined ride and relatively quiet cabin than F80 and monstrous power. It would make a nice family/executive sedan. Unfortunately the G87 M2, sharing the same platform and weight as the G80/82, also had the fun ironed out from the F87 as well. It feels more like a small GT car than a tossable sports coupe.

My biggest gripe with my G80 is the gauge cluster. I hate digital gauges, especially ones that are backwards. Bring back the circular analog gauges. I got lucky and had the option to order a 2022 or 2023 and I chose the 2022 because I didn’t want the huge iPad screens. That was a great decision.

Great watch. Time for a 5 way review next, 1M, M2 OG, M2 Comp, M2 CS, and G87 M2 please.

steering on the f80 can be made much better with monoballs on the tension arms, camber plates, and CS steering coding

My F80 has touch screen but I never use it.

I'd love to see you guys redo this with a lightly modded/refreshed F80. Go with an LCI Comp model and flash it with the CS/GTS software and throw a monoball thrust arm and some camber plates. Can pick up one with those mods for under 45k OTD and would be very interesting in terms of dynamics compared to the G80.

The answer is used manual G82 M4, you can pick them up for around $45,000 already.

Great Video, I found it interesting. My Daily is a 1M, that I may never sell & keep it in the Garage for the odd drive here & there. The Steering is something I just won't find in a replacement and everything is way heavier, which has a sizeable impact on the driving experience. I'm now thinking of what a suitable daily would be if I stayed with a performance Car........G87 M2 Manual, G80 M3 Manual............or dare I say it, a Honda Civic Type R (FL5). Or do I get something like an E90/92 M3 or F80 M3 and build what I'd like? Silly first World problem I know, but the continuous increase in weight, the disconnected steering dwindling availability of a Manual box is just numbing the driving experience. I will also add that the Litchfield modified G87 M2 Manual on Harry's Garage here on YT, look pretty awesome (although the Seats are not for me).

The e90 was peak M3. Bespoke NA v8. Turbos are more powerful but the naturally aspirated V8 feels and sounds more special

S55 is largely forged internals. Other than I think the conrods, which are the weak point and can give up at 700-800 hp. Both the s55 and s58 are inherantly strong engines, however due to better fuel injection and stronger conrods the s58 can go 700+ without much fuss.

where does the ct4v blackwing fall under all of this?

Haven driven both the G82 competition and actually having driven that exact f80 I have to say I much prefer the feeling and driving experience of the F80. The G82 feels too easy and forgiving and assisted, but the F80 feels like it would let you slide it into a tree if you gave it the proper inputs, and that’s how an M car should feel.

F82 M4 comp here. Buddy got G82. Still love my F82. The one here isn’t comp package on the f80 which makes a big difference in suspension and other areas. F body all the way. The last of the greats

also Zach only the early f80s had that torque issue, they fixed that with the f80 comp and further with f80 cs

Absolutely love my G82 buckets! I've driven 30k miles in 1 year in them.

F80 > G80 PIG NOSE - Wish you tested a F80 with CompPack and DCT, that car is much more raw than Auto G80.

The S55 has forged parts as well dude WTH. It’s lighter than the s58 too.

every generation M3 gets bigger, more pricey, and less visceral. seems all car manufactures care about these days is straight line performance. never mnid the fact the g80 is still a very boring looking, almost ugly car.

cool video concept, keep em coming gents

love my F80. Nice job guys

Great presentation from you Zack, you detail and sell the virtues of the new gen comp very well! However, gimme an e90 M3 or my old e30 forced induction 318is over either of these any day

G8x missing the Biermann's touch

The best part of the newer BMW front end is the driver doesn't have to look at it, but in all honesty it's grown on me.

Love this series. Please do more comparisons. I’d like to see something with the AMG GTS or Aston Vantage. Both are great value

More of these style videos!!

Disrespecting the ctr and ITS Matt!

Great Video, would of been nice to compare the last of the F80s nice comp model (they have touch screen nav too) and drive a better and to have the first G80`s , Always enjoy the contact, big Fan of you guys from the UK and always enjoy the PODCASTs, keep up the great content 🤘

Sitting in front of the controversial grill on the new one! Slick thumbnail!!!😂

M really lost their way when Albert Biermann left imo. G80 is soft compared to the F80, straight up. F80: Carbon fiber driveshaft, carbon fiber roof, rear subframe bolted straight to the chassis without bushings and a dual clutch transmission (when not optioned with the manual). It's not a soft car, but it does everything well. G80 is no doubt a great car, but it just doesn't compare to the F80 imo.

I had an F80 6MT with 18inch OEM wheels I thought the car was great ZERO complaints. I now have a 2022 G80 6MT. The biggest difference to me is the G80 is more luxurious and that's what i wanted. For me having the 6MT makes it fun just driving at normal speeds. You don't need to drive 10/10ths to enjoy the car. I'm keeping my G80 right now it's 100% stock.

The G80 is beautiful in my opinion, especially the rear end. It’s also a fantastic car.

When the G80 drove past and the front grille was blurred I lost it 😂

Great video, keep it coming.

I owned the old one and now the new one. The new one drives better , just put it in MDM and you drift at every corner in a controllable manner. F80 was a hard horse to tame. Almost crashed it twice. I somewhat disagree about the new one not showing its capability at low speeds, because of linear torque response and better chassis control it is much easier to access the performance in the new one than the old one without worry of losing control. It was difficult to do little drifts here and there in the old one, as you mention it is twitchy, but the new one is much more controllable giving you the option to have a little fun going to the grocery store. the old one was just too rough and noisy for every day driving. they added much more sound insulation in the G80, it is a civilized car now.... BMW M is about performance and luxury. the old one hardly had luxury manners. One thing I definitely miss and not mentioned here is the F80 DCT vs G80 ZF wet clutch. The old one was much faster and crisper to shift I believe under 10 msec shift compared to 150 msec shift... don't like the ZF as much even in the most aggressive setting. BTW you can’t get a great condition F80 for that cheap unless it’s beat up. A great example still runs 50-60K. with running costs (out of warranty) the difference between the two is less than what you think.... Everything else you mention is absolutely correct. Oddly I think the new one looks great and so different that will become a classic just for being controversial 20 years from now. The last non hybrid non electric M3. given the higher price they are more rare and exclusive than the old one.

F80 for me, I prefer DCT tho, not a manual but still much more engaging compared to a M tuned ZF 8speed. There’s many more reasons I prefer my F80, on my 2nd one.

i'll probably check out a manual g82 in a few years if i tire of my manual f82, but so far i haven't even a little bit. i'd be a lot more interested if the xdrive comp wasn't exclusively automatic.

Great video. Please do more like this! Especially for old European cars

S55 has forged internals, no? Maybe the B58 doesn't, but I'd always heard S55 did. Someone set the record straight?

F80 any day on looks alone but e90/e92 will forever be my dream m3 g80 big miss

Oh Matt, you thought my R35 GTR was ugly too when you raced it against a nitrous Hertz Vette. Now I have another "Matt thinks it's ugly car", a G80 xDrive and my impression is this. I absolutely love the car not because it's an M3 (doesn't feel anything like a "real" M3, it's too big for that), no it's an AMAZING 4-Door R35. That's why I love the car. It's about the same size as my old GTR, but is actually practical and comfy in comfort mode, and beastly in beast mode. It's a great do everything sedan.... It's probably too much car for Angeles Crest Highway, as was my GTR, you could really only enjoy that properly at Big Willow, honestly for a mountain drive my Convertible 325Ci e46 is more "fun" than that F80...well my definition of fun anyways. I loved my e46 M3 too, but the G80 isn't an M3, it's a R35 GTR in an e39 M5 package. 🙂

I definitely agree that the M3 Comp xDrive is a lot of money, probably a bit too much. It is superior, but losing the analog feel of the F80 is disappointing. Personally, I think going for a low mileage used G80 manual (with standard seats) in a couple years is going to be the sweet spot. And likely as close as you’re going to get to the best of both worlds. As a ‘21 M2 Comp (manual) owner, I’ll probably lean more towards the G87 in the future once I get past the looks and actually get some good seat time in a manual. That shorter wheelbase adds a whole lotta fun.

I also find it ironic that the "ultimate driving experience" brand year after year is noted to have little to no feel in the steering wheel and one of the worst feedbacks through the wheel. You know, the steering wheel, one of the prime pieces of the car that you rely on to sense what your sports car is doing when driving it on the edge of traction.

G80 all day. Truly love the design snd the grill.

I’m worried you guys found a beat up F80 to go against a brand new G80. While it’s mentioned the extra budget saved could have upgraded the F80, I think the feedback from both drivers may have been different or closer to mint F80s are fantastic