Which is better Crawl Control or Lockers? 5th Gen 4Runners with Overland Builds Answer This Question 

There was definitely a lot of goofing around ha ha. Thanks for the comment!

@@OverlandPNWcurious, which beach is this?

Thanks for the kind comment!

@@OverlandPNW He was referring to me brother :)

Thanks! It was a fun day in the sand. Thanks for always taking the time to leave a comment!

@@OverlandPNW, recognition is well deserved. The content you are producing and its format are both uncommonly useful and a bit rare. It’s also a lot of work. It’s a bonus you guys play in the same wildernesses I do. I hope you keep at it.

So true, everything is better with lockers! I should have used that as the video title ha ha!

@@OverlandPNW 👊🏻

Even Pizza!!! 😂

@@TJackSurvival and shrimp sandwich and shrimp soup 👊🏻😁

So true.

My pleasure!

Yeah that hydraulic jack is a nice tool. Thanks for the comment!

Big thanks for that comment! You haven't put out a video in a while. Do you have something coming out in the near future?

@@OverlandPNW I have a few videos in the works, along with some major changes coming to the channel that will aid with our adventuring!

@@VegaVenturing looking forward to seeing the new changes!

Thanks for the comment!

Thanks! I just watched your walk around video. Great build!

@@OverlandPNW it’s an awesome rock lander, been doing some stuff for Louie and definitely it’s top notch. Will be doing a walk around of another friend with a top level overland Tacoma. Thanks for the support 🙌🏻

Thanks for that comment and I totally agree that drift wood crawling should be more of a thing! It is definitely a fun way to see what your rig can do!

Thanks! I've been waiting for you to post a High Desert Overland video. Is one coming?

@@OverlandPNW yep I'm almost done with it I'm thinking next week sometime.

Thanks!

Thanks a lot! Your Astoria video was great!

Thanks! Those were some crazy mud holes you went through in your last video!

Thanks and I enjoyed your steak and potato bake video 👍

Thank you 👍

Thanks! I watched your walk around video. Very nice Tacoma build!

@@OverlandPNW thank you

That 2020 TRD Pro is as good as it gets! Yeah, moving can really be challenging especially when it comes to finding good off-roading. hope you can find some good trails!

Well said and I agree. The other misunderstood concept about A-Trac and MTS is that people often think that once they are engaged, they are always working for them. A-Trac auto-deactivates at about 4 mph and MTS auto deactivates at about 7 mph. If you exceed those speeds and then slow back down, they will come back on line. Toyota does not want brakes suddenly applying at speeds higher than that. That said, they are absolutely spectacular systems for what they are. I have not done a deep dive into the new Trail Hunter but from the glimpses of info I have had of it, there seems to be a lot of impressive features. I'd love to see a DC sway bar on the next 4R!!

W W, I rarely agree with my brother, however, in this case we align. Your comments are spot on as well. As for me I WOULD LOVE, LOVE, LOVE a DC sway bar.

@@OverlandPNW Not sure the DC sway bar is a game changer when a 4R has the KDSS already installed. I look forward to seeing a build like yours with it installed. Only thing missing then I suppose would be hover mode where the vehicle floats above the obstacle if stuck. 🤣

Thanks! Love the survival content on your channel!

@@OverlandPNW Appreciate that. I also make content on Survival Dispatch. If you ever want to make videos in Utah hit me up.

Thank you too!

Thanks! That campsite on Fraser Island looked amazing!

I like lockers as well. They are my go to.

Thanks and thanks for watching!

Thanks!

Thanks and cheers!

So true! It is all about learning what your particular vehicle will do in any given situation. Thanks for the comment! You are so close to 1K subs, nice!

@@OverlandPNW Yea not really active man so don't really care. As long as I keep finding channels like yours I'm golden 👌

That's a great observation about tire choice in the sand. There are some spectacular sand-specific tires choices. I'd love to have the budget to have different sets of tires for different terrain types. That being said, you have actually tapped into a long standing debate about whether All-Terrain or Mud-Terrain tires are better in the sand. If you Google "Are all terrain tires better than mud terrain tires in the sand" you will get a bunch of articles on this topic. With regard to sand, the conventional wisdom seems to be leaning toward the idea that all terrain tires are better in the sand. Here is why: Sand is a tricky landscape to work with. Mud tires tend to be more aggressive, especially if they have larger tread designs and deeper voids. This might have a habit of digging you down into the ground in sandy environments instead of shooting you forward. In sandy situations, an all-terrain tire might be the better way to go. It’s just because they have tighter treads which will help with grip, flotation and momentum. The BF Goodrich K02 All Terrain tire has 10 consecutive Dakar victories after all. That’s not to say that a mud-terrain tire wouldn’t do well on a beach or in the desert, but it might not be the best fit if you are primarily driving on this type of terrain. It all depends, if you are driving a sand rail, by all means use a paddle tire or a mud tire and send a rooster tail of sand behind you as you rocket across the sand. Please understand, I am not disagreeing with you. Just the opposite. I think tire choice in the sand is a great observation. It comes down to this: there is probably no one correct answer that fits all vehicle types, sand conditions, driver experience, etc. It is up to each driver to decide what tire works best for his/her vehicle and the terrain conditions. I love talking about this stuff and learn something new every time a great comment like this is posted. I also freely admit I have never tried mud terrain tires in the sand. So, I do no have that experience to speak from. Anyway, great comment and thanks and again for the great observation.

@@OverlandPNW I have seen, the articles, YT, and conversations within my circle about this as well. I digress a little in that I think it may depend more on how the M/T is designed, the same as with an A/T. There are so many nuances regarding traction control types, technique, tire choice, driver, and the list goes on lol. Anyway, great video, I enjoyed it!

@@terrarecon Great point. Sounds like you have more experience with M/T tires in the sand than I do. So, I'll defer to you. I'd like to give them a try some day!

With our lifts, which are about 3", the sweet spot in tire size is 285/75R17. We've tried 315/70R17 and they are a little too big. We run K02s as well. Cheers!

Totally agree.

Oh cool. Are you guys heading to the Overland Expo PNW in Redmond, Oregon?

@@OverlandPNW We are not hitting the Expo (have plans for the one here in CO), this is more of a pleasure cruise than an overlanding trip. Starting off around Morro Bay and then heading north. Apparently camping at a few wineries and hopefully a beach or two.

Thanks! It is a great beach up here in the PNW. If you head up north looking for beaches, let me know in a DM.

Thanks! That jack is made by ARB.

@@OverlandPNW That is the same brand we purchased for our air compressor.

Great advice!

Good points! I did not mention it in the video but I never leave lockers on full time while in the sand. There's no point to it. I just engage them situationally. I'm not familiar with the Land Rover traction control system but I'm sure it is a good one. The Toyota A-Trac only works in 4WD Low and only up to about 4 mph. Then it auto deactivates. The MTS system has a 4WD high setting but it auto deactivates at about 7 mph. Even within those parameters, both the A-Trac and MTS systems seem to work really well in the sand. From your videos, your Land Rover has no problems in the sand!

@OverlandPNW The good thing about the P38 system is it works at all speeds, high or low range. It really saves your diff from sudden changes of low to high traction situations.

Great video. I never think to use lockers in sand with my ORP. I will say, I really miss not having a center diff lock like my previous Gen 4 had. It was absolutely unstoppable in whoops and large dunes alike. Silver lake is on my calendar in a week, and I’m really hoping to test it out with my 22 ORP, after having a built to the gills 15 OR. The capabilities of these in stock form are unbelievable. The TCS on these vehicles is very confidence inspiring and leaves little real world common need to throw the catalog at them if they’re wheeled occasionally vs. recreationally.

@@coltonwaggoner5397 So true that the ORP capabilities now are truly insane. We are in agreement on that and at the end of the video I state that you do not need lockers in the sand. Having said that (not talking about just sand now, but rather all off-roading) I hear ya about missing that center diff lock!!

Yes I agree going from open diff to Locker back and forth seems annoying when I watch something go up a hill and I'm thinking if you only had quality traction control you wouldn't be spinning and then having to lock up. I drive a disco 2 in excellent condition with traction control, CDL lifted on 33s. Now I admit I would like a rear Locker someday just as a third option because I'm down in Southern Arizona and some really steep crawler type trails where the traction control even allowing for just the slightest spinning and grab makes you want to flip backwards sometimes but I suppose it's because I've become accustomed to taking my disco on stuff fit Jeep rubicon's on 33 or greater go on so that's pretty good though considering it's a 20 year old vehicle. I love the low range manual mode selection. I'm all about 3rd and 2nd gear. Crazy a lot of modern vehicles start to adopt systems like Land Rover had 20 years ago and even the newer kind aren't nearly as good. I might not even go rear Locker but perhaps Eaton truetrac. I know when you raised a wheel it's pretty much the same with traction control helping but it will help traction control not have to work as often for uneven surfaces were both wheels are touching

For tire pressure, we run 10 psi in the sand. That seems to work well with our wheel/tire combination. I will always prefer lockers but I like to tinker around with A-trac and test it out to see what it can do.

Yes, you are correct! I have an ARB front air locker and the rear is still the factory e-locker. But, now that I have used the ARB air locker for about 2 years, I wish I had replaced the rear e-locker with an ARB air locker as well back when I had the diffs open to re-gear.

So true! A comparison with a jeep would make a cool video 😎 !

The vehicle is just a tool. The driver is the one that gets the job done.

A-Trac and DAC are great if you are not doing advanced trails all day long. The break actuators will overheat and the system will automatically cancel itself if you use it for extended periods of time. A-Trac is designed to get you unstuck, to get you going from a dead stop, or to get you over a short obstacle. It is not intended for prolonged use. We have had A-Trac self-cancel due to overheating during some of our testing. It is a great system and will handle impressive obstacles. It is just a short-term tool.

That is my brother's rig. His suspension is Ironman foamcell pro stage 3, 3” front, 2” rear

Thanks for responding!!

You are correct. Stock 4Runner off-road editions only have rear lockers. On this driftwood obstacle (at about 11:58), when I engaged lockers the sequence I used was front locker first, then rear locker. You are right, a good test would have been to try just rear locker!

There are a couple of things to consider. You are correct that you should not exceed about 8km/hr with the rear locker engaged. And, of course, the rear locker only works in 4WD low. I usually do not use a locker as a full-time application. I only turn it on when I need it and then I turn it off. Multi-Terrain Select sand mode will work in both 4WD low and 4WD high but it also has a speed limiter. It will automatically go off line if you exceed about 11km/hr but will come back on line if you slow down below that speed. I tend to think of the Multi-Terrain Select system as something to use to get through a longer obstacle but not something to leave on. We have had the break actuators overheat and deactivate the system during testing. So, for me, both lockers and Multi-Terrain Select are systems that I turn on as needed and then turn off. On the beach, I usually just go with normal 4W drive and like you, maintain momentum. When circumstances dictate, I will choose between the locker or MTS. A lot of it comes down to driver preference. I hope that helps.

@@OverlandPNW appreciate for the comment. Learn a lot!! Gonna keep on watching your channel and learn more and more. Thanks.

Thanks! My tires (white 4Runner) are 315/70R17. So, they are 34.36" tall and 12.4" wide. Steve (Silver 4Runner) is running 285/75R17. So, his are 33.83" tall and 11.22" wide.

@@OverlandPNW Thank you for the quick reply. I spent a fair amount of time watching your videos trying to catch a glimpse of the tire size with no luck. You guys make great videos with solid content. I look forward to many more. Be safe and thanks again.

I have a spot where I can drive through a fresh water stream. That helps a lot. But make sure and thoroughly clean the vehicle especially the entire under carriage and all drivetrain, wheel, brake, motor components. Make sure you clean your wheels, especially aftermarket, chrome or polished/brushed aluminum. There are a lot of good RU-vid videos on this topic are worth checking out.

I'm not sure how much lockers cost these days. I got mine about 2 years ago. Most 4x4 shops could give you an idea.

The SR5 does not have Crawl Control. It only has A-Trac and part-time 4WD. It does not have Multi-Terrain Select and it does not have a locking rear differential. A TRD Pro is a good choice if you want something off-the shelf ready to go without a lot of modifications. If you plan on doing a lift, big tires, etc....you might consider a TRD Off-Road.

@@OverlandPNW Thank you for the precise information, does TRD Off-Road has all the capabilities of TRD-Pro?

It is all about the right tires, that's for sure!

Can't argue with that.

The tires look squishy because we let most of the air out of them. This give you more traction in the sand.

Thank you for the reply. I'm learning from you guys so I know what to expect when I get my 4runner. ^_^

If it is an SR5 or TRD Sport, you do not have a locker. If it is a TRD Off-Road or TRD Pro, you do have a locker.

@@OverlandPNW got it, thanks I’m new to this and your video was a tremendous help! How do I activate the locker again?

@@gerardomata.costarica Bring your vehicle to a complete stop, put it into 4WD Low, press the rear diff lock button (you will see a red blinking light on your dash), gently depress the accelerator pedal so that the vehicle moves forward very slowly. When the red blinking light stops blinking and becomes a steady red, the locker is engaged. This should take about 1/2 to 1 rotation of the wheel. You should not exceed 5 mph with the locker engaged.

@@OverlandPNW got it!!

Dang! But I think Tundra comes with A-Trac, right? Regardless...they are great trucks!

Can't argue with that approach!

👍

I know what you mean. I watch other channels and have the same problem with my finances ha ha!

SPOT ON! Jon doesn't help me financially and I don't help him, but that's what being a good brother is all about, right???

@@aired-downoverland9239 you 2 are amazing combo. For some reason I did not get the call from the shop I called. Maybe the front desk got my number wrong. May be they are not interested for 4Runners with stock gears. Not sure. Will try another day to call or stop by and see.

Lockers are my go to as well.