Which is Greater? Episode 8: Twilight Struggle vs Labyrinth: War on Terror 

As an ex-USAF PJ, who served at a transitional point in history (final years of the Cold War, into the start of the forever war in the deserts and plains), I find it interesting how both games portray their time periods. As a child, growing up in England (I have a complex backstory lol), I remember being told constantly that we were either going to death in atomic heat or nuclear winter. That there was no future. The younger generations weren't subjected to this, so nuclear war might seem "weird" to them, whereas it was something we were told would be inevitable. I also find it interesting that Labyrinth was designed by a CIA national security analyst, as to me, that shows either deliberate simplification, or a lack of "real data" having been analyzed.

You did a really good job here, bravo ! I would also point out the designer's great commenatary in the rulebook of Twilight Struggle, which says that the rules and mechanisms of the game are indeed deliberately reflecting some outdated ideas and theories of that time: The way China is represented, how the Domino Theory is a mechanism to spread influence and also the chosen perspective of both superpowers to see all other countries as pawns on a chess board. Labyrinth: The War on Terror has more difficulties portraying a more recent history accurately, as it lacks the luxury of decades-long historical hindsight and analysis. As a result, the expansions address this and try to keep the game updated. Example from expansion "The Awakening"'s rulebook, page 5, on the topic of WMDs: "Although Pakistan continues to be a potential source of chemical and nuclear weapons for the Jihadists, Russian WMD devices have shown to be more secure than analysts previously foreboded." -- which does indeed change the setup of the game here, with half of the WMD markers being now distributed somewhere else. One last thing to point out: Labyrinth: The War on Terror can indeed be played solo (with the expansion even as both sides), while Twilight Struggle is strictly a 2-player game.

Another excellent episode guys. Well done!

Labyrinth has a playable solo mode, and the bot in the Awakening update is significantly improved. TS can't be played solo with the original ruleset, and all of the online solo variations change the rules of the game considerably. As two player games, you could pull either one out of a bag and not go wrong either way, but the far superior solo play option gives Labyrinth the advantage.

Jesus cries because you don't sleeve Twilight Struggle...

I love both games, they are both on steam! 😎

This is really good. I would even go as far as to say with an imporved sound quality you are on the same level as Shut up and sit down

This is rather "Creaking Shelves Struggle" and "Robin: War on Matt". xD. Great vid, guys, as always. ^^

'My parent's history'. Makes me feel old.

Those are some heavy looking games. Not one's for the family game night I'm guessing. Another great video guys.

9:34 One of the things I liked about the COIN game Cuba Libre is you have two different insurgents who need to work together but have different goals. (edit) albeit you will eventually have to limit the different factions to a limited number meaning merging insurgents together (like the NPA and Moors in People Power) or omitting them out all together. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FbfLZE_NTRI.htmlsi=1qsvDC0eU-TpRnM7&t=3855

Twilight Struggle is a living legend of boardgames. I got captivated by its magic since the first time I played it (and I recently managed to get a copy, many years later, but still on time :3). Anyway, I have to rise my voice for Labyrinth: the War on Terror , and its sequels: The Awakening and The Forever War. I'm driving crazy for a copy of The Awakening (it's difficult to get it here in Spain), and I cross my fingers to get it soon. I find these games very interesting: my girlfriend's little daughter is crazy about these games, because she is learning a lot of things about our recent history. I hope the next GMT game in my collection will be The Andean Abyss. I saw the Netflix series, Narcos, and many people have suggested me that game. Anyway, I have enjoyed your video. Nice job, guys! 👍🏻

Excellent video, the humour was perfect.

those news broadcasts are so damn hilarious !! You guys are awesome

Great video! It reminds me of peak SU&SD, fun and informative.

Great video guys! Cool to see you describe heavier games in your same style. Also Four Lions IS great!

Really, really great video guys! It's my first exposure to your channel, and I like how you guys capture the light heartedness of Shut Up and Sit Down with out feeling like a knock off. I'm so glad you guys actually picked a winner instead of copping out by leaving it at "both games are equally good. Pick the theme you like better." Also, you guys made me think about Labyrinth in a whole new way! I've never thought about how it simulates the quagmire of US foreign intervention. You guys brought up great crtiques. My only slight issue is that you didn't mention how Labyrinth has multiple scenarios and that it has an expansion so that you can choose between Bush Era or Obama era of the war. Ultimately, I agree that TS is better. I'm so glad you guys are highting LWoT too, though! Consider me a new fan!

Great video guys, thanks!

I really don't understand why people feel uncomfortable about moving a chit from one square to another or inverting a tiny black hexagon. However, your review helped to convince me to buy Labyrinth and for that, we thank you.

I've not played either but having lived through the 70s and 80s part of the Cold War, I would say that your comments about Labyrinth are probably even more relevant because we are all still living through this now. Perhaps that's why it feels so wrong to you that so much has been overlooked? It's much easier to forgive omissions when it's something that is finished, the line has been drawn and it's all in the text books. (Obviously, we're still feeling the ripples...)

1st video of yours I've seen (I was alerted by my subscription to TS on boardgamegeek.com). A lot of fun, and also a lot of insight. (Yep, I subscribed.) The SU&SD inspiration is obvious, while at the same time you're doing your own thing. Great stuff. I've played TS several times with my 18-year-old son, who is a history buff (and a Socialist at heart.) We loved it. It took us 5 hours every night (we'd play 3 or so hours in the evening, then finish it up in the morning.) We love the strategy mixed with so many historical references. Someone on BGG likened to feel of it to chess, which I think is a good thing. I haven't played the other game. It looks intriguing. I do think the "jihad" side sounds like a gross simplification of a complex phenomena -- although, I really don't have many ideas about this could be represented with more fidelity in a game like this.

Thanks for the content

The jokes come thick and fast in this video. I can't handle it.

Labyrinth has an expansion that covers more recent events. I have it, but have not played the game using it yet. I'm really looking forward to the digital version, which is currently under development. That may be the one that pushes me up update my iPad to iOS 11 if need be :)

Great video guys. Glad to see it’s not only my board for TS that doesn’t lay flat. Just picked up 1960 the making of a president too and that board appears to be both flat and vertical when laid out which is some achievement 😀 haven’t played labyrinth but love TS.

great! loved the video! great job

Imperial Struggle takes on the winner.

I personally prefer twilight struggle a lot. Maybe it is, because polish version of labyrinth is VERY BAD TRAMSLATED

Damn this was hilarious.

All-time conspiracies guy?

I need them

Hilarious, thank you

"does they have oil?" should be "are they hostile towards Israel?"

Not gonna lie, the maze Labyrinth game is pretty fun.

I could never get into Twilight Struggle but have a copy of Labyrinth that I've played solo many times. I think it is the superior game because of the asymmetry. Can any board game that is trying to capture the nuances of a particular historical period be completely accurate? Of course not. But as a historical simulation, I think Labyrinth is the superior game.

Can't say I've played War on Terror, but the idea of a game based around a war that is still going on, and that doesn't have particularly cut and dry sides, does sound a little too on the nose. Twilight Struggle, on the other hand, I love. Despite the weird nuclear war win condition.

can you do Maria vs Friedrich?

I prefer labyrinth

I think the war on terror game it is better. God bless all those fighting Isis and Taliban God Bless America

Would have been better without the "comedy"

JESUS CHRIST -- 📏 of The WORLD

More focus on the mechanisms and less on "realism" would've been welcomed.

Great video! I love the theme of these games but the mechanics is just rolling dies, gets a bit dry after a while.

Twilight Struggle is NOT a heavy game.