I think you missed a big player in the market: VSL Vienna Symphonic Library. They have some really good sounding libraries out there. I like your videos, in this one you show me some companies I do not know until now. I will check them out. Thanks for this.
@@SecondTierSound experience with it or not, you cannot omit vsl in a list about orchestral libraries (and what to buy. VSL is a top 5 developer and have budget friendly options too). You can find enough information on the net about it, and the general thoughts on them. If you only list/talk about the ones you know, you should state that more clearly. Novice people might otherwise get a wrong idea on what's available.
@@mr_don_key Yes, I can! This list is not exhaustive. It is what I recommend, not what's out there. I now have much more experience with those libraries and I still don't recommend them. Their harp is excellent though.
@@SecondTierSound then i would strongly advice to alter the description (start with that the list contains only libraries you have experiences with). Or maybe even the title? "which lbrary is the best for composing according to my experiences"
I know Vienna Symphonic Library was mentioned, and while it's not a library of samples, I'd also like to suggest SWAM's line of physical modeling VSTs. specifically, their woodwinds, strings, and some of their brass.
A library producer that is frequently overlooked in broad surveys like this is Chris Hein. I have Hollywood Orchestra, BBCSO (and several other Spitfire Libraries), Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass, a few 8Dio items, and a smattering of others, but often find myself borrowing from the Chris Hein Brass and Woodwinds for solo passages. Do you have any experience with them and what do you think? Really enjoy your presentations.
You are right, and I don't have their libraries. I have tried a few, and they are good. Some very good. My main gripe is that I think they are overpriced. Then I also forgot to mention quite a few libraries in this review.
Hi Sam. Very useful video, even after 3 years. Can you make a list, with one library from each company worth it, and everyone should have it. I know it's individual for everyone, but according to you. Thanks!
My main orchestral library is BBC Symphony Orchestra and I have a few other spitfire libraries that I use quite often. I think what you said about 8dio is absolutely true, I have one of their old library(solo strings) and they are very textural and great for intimate stuffs but they don't have versatility like Spitfire Solo Strings or BBCSO's lead players.
Ok.After watching your whole video very carefully....1st)...You forgot to mention Impact Soundworks,Red Room Audio,Orange Tree samples,Ample Sound and Strezov sampling,Sonicouture and Sonuscore....2nd)... Also 8dio and Soundiron are under the same company,which was called Tonehammer in the past....3rd)...The best acoustic guitars out there is made by Orange Tree samples,and the best electric is by Vi2....4th)...Steinberg's Iconica Orchestra is a colaboration with Orchestral Tools,and thats why it sounds extremely powerfull,and Steinberg does make very high quality sample libraries especially last decade...5th)..In free staff you should mention Project sam free orchestra,Sonuscore free orchestra,Red room audio free orchestra,which are outstanding sounds for free staf,which if you combine with LABS,pianobook and the rest of HQ free libraries...6th)...There is no other company that is worth mentioning.Dont tell me Sample Logic is worthing.Last thing i would like to mention is the Eduardo Tarilonte's ethnic libraries,the best out there.Thats all :-)
I wouldn't call the Roland fp5 unknown exactly. Quite the contrary. I use a different controller today though, by i still have the Roland as it is great to play on.
Oh you mean the keys as I type? Steel series. I bought it used. Great because it has a ton of extra buttons, great for macros and commands, but also visible...
@@SecondTierSound Yeah, I took notice of all the extra macro keys and also it doesn't have the blinding your lighting! Very clear to see in a darker room! Thanks for the quick response!
Hey Sam, great rundown. Your take on 8Dio was bang on: the older stuff is harsh and stiff and requires way too much programming to compete with modern libs and the old orchestral should probably be retired or put out as free bait. However the newer stuff is gorgeous and Troels is incredibly generous with the sales. Yesterday (Nov 21, 2021), I sniped the combo I had been waiting for: Century Brass 2.0 + Century Brass Lite + Century Solo Brass, + Warm Clarinet for $209 US and they gave me Insolidus Choir for free! FOR FREE! All that for about $200! That choir is astonishing and the both brass libraries are soft, tuneful, practical, lyrical and sweet. And very very real sounding. Don’t get it for massive trailer projects, get it for everything else. I’m still shaking my head at this sale. Love you Troels!
Very informative video. I am looking for a library that would work well for more a jazz ensemble for lead sax and trumpet. Which library would you recommend?
Audio modelling, Sample modeling and Acoustic samples have great wind and brass instruments that are better for jazz and sound realistic. They work even better with a breath controller. For the rest, Swing, and Swing more by Projectsam are a great start.
I do like the Bohemian Violin but decided to go with the Emotional violin and cello it sounds more versatile when mixed with other sounds. All are great though
It is true that it matters in what context the instrument is in. Or, one needs some good mixing skills. There are first chair violins, and there are solo violins. It is different. Good choice thought, and hope you have fun with it!
Very nice comparison thanks. A comment that is not here or there but for me a very big factor is also the lib size. I am not a professional I do this as a hobby (but only recently have started looking into orchestral music) and I can understand if you are serious about it that you would want the wav file lossless format. I honestly would buy some libs in an instant if they gave me the option to download, instead of 1TB, the same files in AAC or even MP3 320kbps for 100GB or however big they will be (and leave the wav option for anyone that wants it ofc). The vast majority of listeners will not be able to differentiate wav vs mp3 320 especially in the mix imho (i for sure cannot) and a bigger factor will be your playing skills, your mix (even the listeners' speakers which honestly most of the time are below average). Even if someone disagrees, which is fine ofc, I am only arguing that it would be nice to also have this option so you can use w.e suits you best. As it is a new library almost feels like it also requires a new ssd if you have not planned ahead for it. Anyway rant over. Cheers.
Most companies do in fact compress their samples, though not as much as with mp3 as that will affect sound quality to some degree. There are however great orchestral libraries that don't take up that much room, mainly because they have less microphone positions included. Also, some players will let you download whichever microphones you wish to use. (Sine player from Orchestral Tools for instance). Some lower footprint libraries are Spitfire BBC SO Core (not Pro), Orchestral Tools Inspire 1+2, Orchestral Tools Berlin Orchestra (made in conjunction with Berkeley to be easy for students to run on less powerful machines) - not to be confused with individual products like Berlin Strings, Berlin Woodwinds and so on - those are heavier on system resources, but again you can at least minimize by downloading only 1 or 2 mic/mixes. As mentioned companies like Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling with their SWAM line are very low on disk space usage as they model the instruments rather than use samples, but at the cost of being a bit heavier on CPU. (since it basically does a lot of real time calculations as you play)
@@tosvus Yes this is true. I myself went for BBC SO Core as a decent all round library for around 25GB. I also saw the Sine player which is a decent alternative so you don't have to download everything and then delete what you don''t need. I will also keep an eye on the modelling libraries, maybe in a sale I will get one and see how they behave.
I mostly use NI Komplete stuff, Spitfire BBCSO Core and EW Opus Orchestra. I use Cubase Pro 11 as my DAW. I would to know how you mix and produce orchestral work. I used to do it with Cubase mixer and plugins, etc. However, with multi mics setup and all the midi controls of more recent libraries Such as EW Opus and BBCSO, I wonder if it would be preferable to « mix » within the libraries with midi CC’s and multi microphones. That would be closer to what a conductor would do with an orchestra. Maybe an interesting subject for a future video.
Thank you. Perhaps. A quick answer is that I would route the various mics to different channels in my DAW as i still prefer to mix with my DAW rather than any vst interface. It is just vastly superior in that regard. CCs is a way to control the instrument, not really mixing, even though the dynamics play a part. But the difference to me is a finished song, including dynamics, that I also mix, rather than using CCs for "mixing". Cheers!
Hallo Sam, I´d choosen The sonuscore "the Orchestra" I´m a little diappointed, that you dosn´t mentioned it. Is there something wrong with it your oppinion? Ralf
If I understand you correctly, I think it is a great tool, the orchestra. You can create music very fast. I wouldn't use it for what I do, but it is a great starter and nice inspiration. It is a well liked library.
Hey, which choir library is your favorite? Is there any choir libraries like Hollywood Choirs Diamond? I'm aware of metropolis ark choirs, but these are made for more intense projects. I looking for the one that can do it all kind. Thank you
All chores do different things, but I think the best all purpose choir is dominus pro. (Pricey though) Otherwise the choirs in the ark series are really good and easy to work with, and you can buy them separately. I think the choir in ark 1 is more heavy, and the one in ark 2 much softer.
The Steinberg comment made me laugh. So true. Great DAW terrible orchestral Instruments. That said, "The Grand II" is great for a dense mix where you need the piano to cut through.
There are two versions. And, semantics. Full kontakt has one of the most advanced features when it comes to handling and manipulating samples, which is a main reason so many use it for their samples, and also to develop their sounds. But descent sampler, is starting to become a nice alternative which is free. Also called a sampler.
I'm kinda new to Orchestration and absolutely happy with my libraries: Spitfire's BBC Symphony Orchestra Core and Albion III, Native Instruments Session Strings Pro 2 and East West's Hollywood Choir (but I hate the "Play" Software of EastWest :D ). I've also got Audio Imperia's Nucleus (lite) and you are right. It's not that good. Love your channel. You deserve much more subscribers. Greetings from Germany!
Thank you. You know what, if you are happy, that is what matters most. Every library has something to offer. Don't listen to other people about what is best for you. A good advice can be great, but it is only advice. And yes, the play engine can be a handful for sure. Cheers.
Great review, thank you. If you are interested in a good piano please check out Pianoteq by Modartt. It's my favorite and it doesn't use samples. Hope you will find it interesting.
Thank you, I am well aware of it. It keeps getting better, but it isn't "there yet". I like the approach, but I still find that sample based libraries are superior to "digital" ones. Or rather, I think a hybrid of the two is what works the best. But I hope libraries like pianoteq and similar libraries do get better, because it is less taxing than sample based ones. Cheers!
@@arnaudg1832 Yes, I did not include them. I forgot, there are so many. They are generally great. Some fantastic, but also one of the more expensive libraries. I also forgot to mention Fluffy Audio who are very good and detailed.
@@SecondTierSound Yes it is true that "Chris Hein" are not cheap. "Fluffy audio" is very good for the Choirs too, we can add Strezov Sampling to them on this subject. I also like "In Session Audio" for their rhythm library. "Red Room Audio" for their all in one that doesn't take up too much space. "KeepForest", "Zero-G" and "Hybrid Two" for all cinematic/trailer stuff. On another note, Output also does an excellent job.
If you could only buy one library, which would it be? I just bought Spitfire Choir and Nexus but I feel the need for more orchestra sounds. Spitfire Core is one option, but would it be the best one?
It depends on what you need. For orchestra, BBC is excellent. They have a symphony too, but that's several libraries. Otherwise what Musio offers is incredible. Audio imperia is also a good choice
@@SecondTierSound Previously (20 years ago) I made melodic dance music. Now when I am older (44) I like to make more alive cinematic orchestral music with a touch of dance music. My inspiration is Danny Elfman, Enya, Safri Duo. You gave me three nice choices. I'll look into them to start with. I already use the free libraries out there. Nice RU-vid channel by the way. Long clip but very rich on info. Thanks!
I skipped quite a few libraries, and focused on the ones I have more experience with. But I do have some experience with Lass. There are some good things here, but the reason I skipped on LASS, is because it is an old library that doesn't really hold up anymore. The positives are that is has an interesting approach to how the sections are divided, very flexible engine, low on resources, easy to create a chamber or quartet sound, and a truly dry sound. The negatives are that it is not made for the beginner, but rather in fact for someone who has a good knowledge of orchestration, the viola just doesn't sound any good, and the sound is perhaps too dry. You can solve this with some reverb, but there is something about having the sound of the room baked in, not having to mess with this in the beginning in order to get inspired. There were a few good updates in LASS 2.5, but now Audibros library is called Modern Scoring Strings, which I have not tried. I am sure it is very nice if they evolved a bit, like everybody else has. Perhaps you know something about it? Thanks for asking. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound Oh and BTW, bravo on this video... I have particular bent with LASS, that being when I use other libraries I usually always return to LASS and replace everything I've done. I know what you mean about the violas! They have a certain harshness that I put some extra work into to make them fit. I guess it's my familiarity with LASS and the sound I like. The new Spitfire BBC and Orchestral Tools are wonderful. I'm VERY curious about the Garritan CFX now. That's a brand I've stayed away from for years. And I totally agree with your assessment of EastWest, still great.
@@RobertCharlesMann Thank you! It is true that when you know a tool well, it lasts for a long time, and you can get better results from it than a newer one you are not familiar with. LASS has a few things other libraries do not. I know what you mean about Garritan. I thought the same, but their piano is fantastic.
Complaining about Steinberg Libraries, do you mean the iconica? Maybe I have to listen again to this one. It came out 2018. To me it sounds good. About Pianos... I'm Pianist. I didn't like the Garritan, it's not a Steinway D. I always play, believe it or not, the cheap Native Instruments The Grandure. Live and in recordings. It has the brighter tone in higher velocity range. That's so important. This is exactly what I'm missing with Noir. I bet, if the owner of this Piano, Nils Fram, would have finally checked out the result of this plugin, he would not have allowed to bring it on the market. It is not expressive enough. I would not go to a live gig with this under my fingers. It's really hard to find out, if a library does work well just by listening to demos. It has also always been very difficult to judging a Software Piano just by listening to demos. So maybe it's a great idea to rent a library for a month, and if you like it, by it, or if not delete it. Every company shoul offer this model.
I've played the piano for over 30 years. So what? It's all about taste. I personally think most native instruments pianos are not good enough, and sound cheap. Just not deep sampled enough, except for their later offers. It's old technology and sampling. You can also mold the Noir to sound more to your liking, very easily in fact. It's absolutely one if their better pianos, and instrument in their entire catalogue. I think many have made better pianos than NI's older ones. Many, some free even. But, to each their own. These are my opinions. I'm sure many are happy with their simpler pianos. I'm not one of them. I also think Iconia doesn't cut it, compared to what is out there, soundwise, featurewise, and especially the price. Don't let me stop you enjoying it though 🙂 I'm just a guy on the internet
@@SecondTierSound Thanks a lot, very good tip, after listening again to Iconica in comparison to others, I totally agree with you, it's overpriced and no good choice. Watching your channel saves money 🙂.
@@SecondTierSound I'm impressed that you respond to comments 2 1/2 years after posting. My compliments. I just bought Iconica Ensembles for $150 Cdn, which - for my limited intended noodling - is not a bad price. And I agree with your Toontracks view. I have a number of their products. Cheers!
Very different libraries. Albion is kind of a sketch library that is created towards epic orchestral sound with quick performance samples for the different sections, while BBC is a full orchestra library with individual instruments and much more articulations and detail. BBC can do any orchestra sound pretty much. Albion is probably better for the person who wants an orchestra but isn't interested in every detail. BBC probably fits the serious composer better, but there are no rules.
To add to SecondTierSound's response, basically with Albion One (and the other Albion Libraries), you get beautifully recorded ensemble patches, which means the instruments are grouped together. For example, you have high woodwinds and low woodwinds which sounds great - but you can't separate these into individual instruments, such as just oboes or clarinets or flutes, etc. This is where the BBCSO comes in - you have much more control over every element of your composition. If you want a flute melody with a clarinet counterpoint, you're not really going to achieve this with Albion One, but the BBCSO (even in the "free" Discover version) will allow this. I'd also say the BBCSO sounds better for "classical" or earlier film soundtracks. On the other hand Albion One comes with a lot of extras for a more modern cinematic sound (Brunel Loops, Darwin Percussion, Synths etc). Ultimately, I'd aim for both :)
@@SecondTierSound I ended up going with Opus EW over BBCSO. I have Spitfire Abbey Road Foundation and hoping they release full orchestra with that. I love the AB over the BBC personally.
I'm using EastWest Composer Cloud on a 10 year old standard hard disc drive and I confirm I'm having lost of playback issues. Just with 4 instruments loaded (Violin 1, Violin 2, Cello and BaSS), when I was playing back my composition (which was only 4 bars at that point) some of the sounds would suddenly just drop out during playback, which had the sound of an old electronic keyboard when it only had a small number of polyphony, so it seemed like to play the next notes, it had to drop some of those played already. I'm waiting now for the Black Friday sales but looking at buying a 2TB NVMe SSD to put in an external enclosure and connect via Thunderbolt. I would swap this with my internal SSD (which is 512GB) however my laptop is only 6 months old and I don't want to invalidate the warranty so the external option seems a good one, plus if I expand my system in the future it seems a good idea to have my sample library on something that is portable which will make transferring to another system much easier. As I had chosen the monthly subscription from EastWest, I chose to download the instruments. The downloads were really slow from EastWest Sounds Installer. I have a 80Mbps broadband connection and I even tried a 500Mbps 5G WiFi connection but I didn't reach much beyond a download speed of 10MB/s (80Mpbs). So that equates to about 36GB per hour and I picked around 1.5TB worth of instruments to download so that is about 41 Hours of constant downloading, which I had to mostly spread over a few nights so that my network speed wasn't to badly impacted when other family members wanted stream movies etc. I did contact EastWest support and they were going to raise the issue with their technical team. The EastWest Composer Cloud subscription is a really good one for someone like me who is new to this because it allows for a lot of experimenting with different instruments without the initial outlay of a lot of money. Thanks for the honest views and opinions Sam, very useful.
Yes, it is a handful to say the least. You don't need all libraries though. But, I guess it depends on what you are doing. Also, you can buy a harddrive from EASTWEST will all the libraries preloaded. The harddrive is not good for work, but this way you don't have to download everything.
@@SecondTierSound Would you happen to know on whether an external SSD is good for the large East West orchestra library? I have an internal SSD but it is getting full, but I have a bunch of external USB 3.0 SSD that I have repurposed to store my East West downloads.
@@dragonwarden3285 I'm no expert, but in general internal harddrives are faster, and recommended. But, I believe a usb 3 SSD drive could work as well. I think you have to do some research though as I don't know for sure. And, Hollywood is 10 years old, and was made for the top of line computers back then, which I am sure is not too difficult or expensive to match today. I'm not even sure SSD was an option back then, at least not the size we have today.
@@SecondTierSound Thank you for the advice! I will look into it more. I asked because I've been noticing dips in playback audio when using playing notes in Hollywood Orchestra where I didn't notice before. I don't know if it's related to the new version of my DAW, the new SSD I bought this year, or my RAM is not good anymore (I have 16gig). The computer is about 4 years old and it was top of the line when I bought it.
@@dragonwarden3285 All those things do affect the playback. I would guess it is a combination of RAM and CPU. You could always check how much those two are being taxed when this is happening. Check the control panel (windows), and or the resource meter in Cubase (F12)
I know I'm writing three years after this was released, but what the heck!? Good side-by-side rundown. Which library/libraries are best for composing? Easy: The library or libraries you actually HAVE are the best ones. Very difficult to make any music whatever with the ones you WISH you had. That said, there is also nothing wrong for saving up for the ones you wish you had, and converting them into ones you actually have. Myself, I wished I had BBCSO Core. Before I had that, I would compose for my MIDI hardware instruments, because those were what I had (and still have). But I saved up, and bought BBCSO Core when it was on a very substantial sale last year. And now I can compose orchestral music and perform it myself, using that. Would it be nice to have BBCSO Pro, and any number of other libraries? Of course it would. The spirit is willing, but the pocket most definitely isn't. So, until it is, Core will be what I compose with.
This review is so valuable. Your ear is clearly attuned to subtleties that other composers may not recognize, or in fact be unable to perceive. I think that, as in any field, the practitioner that is able to recognize that which is subtly different than what is natural, is decidedly uncommon. That being the case, I would suspect that more than a few professionals who develop these libraries do not possess such a talent themselves.
Thanks for such a comprehensive review of top instrument libraries. It’s comforting for me to know there are great alternatives to Spitfire. I’m transgender, and Spitfire’s Christian Henson has recently shown a transphobic side, and I’d prefer not to buy from them unless they address this. So far, they haven’t, from what I can see. I have quite a lot invested in their libraries, but it’s good to know there are good alternatives.
I'm happy you liked the review. Spitfire certainly has no political ideology or message about transgenders in their product, and/or mission. I give alternatives so that anyone can take the next step that is appropriate for them, and not because I'm trying to boycott anyone. I want to give a fair and deep review of the product without going political. Don't buy Spitfire if you don't like their stuff. Trying to convince others of your opinion usually backfires, because most people who agree with you, didn't change their minds. Should one be able to say what one think? Should one be cancelled for saying that opinion? What about those who think "the wrong opinion" but you don't know they think it? Who should decide their fate? What if one day trends change, and one will be cancelled for holding your opinion? I rather talk to my opponents so that I can learn more about myself and them. That's how we evolve, I believe. I care more about music and composing than what Henson said in a Tweet that has no room for depth, or context, purposely misinterpreted by those who dislike him. I might not agree with him, but i don't agree with his cancelling. This simply isn't a black and white issue. If you can only see one side, and condemn everything about the opinions that don't perfectly fit your own, you are not doing anything to move forward. Be well, and hope you find the right instruments for you🙂🍎
@@SecondTierSound Very good and comprehensive reply, Sam! I agree with you. We should all listen more and understand others, try to live a nice life and not take things too personally. Cancel culture is terrible sometimes and it doesn´t relate to music and art at all. Greetings from Czech republic.
Should just note since this video was created, Symphobia 1 and 2 got a MAJOR update, for free to existing users as well. East West also took a great leap forward with their OPUS player. Also should note that Audio Imperia's Nucleus is actually a very good orchestral library. Jaeger is great for trailers, but since it is focused on that it lacks woodwinds. VSL and especially the Synchron Series and their BigBang series are amazing orchestral libraries with perhaps the best player on the market. RedRoomAudio is another company that mainly focuses on phrase based similarly to Sonokinetic. Also check out Sample Modeling, and Audio Modeling SWAM who both have released some great modeled (rather than sampled) orchestral libraries. In a similar vein, Aaron Venture does sort of a hybrid with his Infinite series of really great sounding orchestral libraries. Lastly, UJAM is a pretty neat company delivering orchestral, piano and more contemporary instruments but somewhat of a hybrid between something like Sonokinetic and a more traditional library. Very playable and quick to get results, plus they had access to some of Hans Zimmers custom sound libraries that they sampled from, so their sound is generally very good.
Thank you. Most of this I have covered in videos after this video. But I still don't think VSL is that great actually. Audio imperia is alright though.
@@SecondTierSound Thanks, yeah I figured people watching this video may not have yet started going down the rabbit hole so just offering up some additional options in the comments :P As for VSL, at the level all these libraries are getting at, it is often mostly about taste in sound and process, so not everything will be everyone's cup of tea. I don't like the older VSL stuff, but the new Synchron (not SyncronIZED..) stuff I really like. Strings might be a little to bright and smooth for some, though with the number of adjustments you can make, it's quite versatile. The downside of the otherwise (in my opinion) great Synchron player is that it does not allow you to have multiple patches loaded at once which could be useful at times.. Appreciate all your videos - think you deserve more subscribers!
Cheers! Of course preferences are different, thank God. I think the engines that VSL have made are to be applauded, and more should learn from them. I'm a little spoiled for choice i guess, but I find VSL a little lackluster in their sound, even the better ones. Something is missing. But the harp is outstanding, and few libraries have as many instruments and articulations.
