People that say the whisker biscuit is useless or a awful rest most times haven't used one or just like blaming their tools for their own problems because out to 100 yards the rest does what it supposed to do itsthe archer that's the problem biscuit is still a great hunting rest and carry one as a backup
@travistwwreck1535 Anybody who hates WB has never used them either lol... they're not a 3D rest. I start everyone on one, especially for whitetail distances. Some guys stick w them and shoot well out to 40-50yds. Others switch to drops or limb rests and don't shoot that much better. I shoot a drop on compounds but have WB on all my kids bows etc. For ranges that guys SHOULD be shooting, a WB is more than adequate. These channels attract a funny group of commenter's. Everyone acting like they are Levi Morgan and need a $5k setup etc, to shoot. I've killed last 2 buck w a 52# recurve off the shelf... according to you guys that's impossible.
Same, I don't really watch Dudley much, but Dan and MFJJ really got my obsession started. I then found Chris Bee and really enjoyed his videos as well. I'm an avid listener of Elk Shape podcast and wish Chris and MFJJ had one as well.
I’ve used Whisker Biscuit rests on 3 Mathews and 2 Bowtech bows over past 10 years. Tight groups 20-70 yards consistently. This test showed 226,227,227 FPS so WB more consistent than drop away rest with 5 FPS variance. Something to think about. PSE and Maxima arrows work perfect with my WB rests.
Years ago, we ran the same test. Difference was 1fps based on average. Biscuits are a great rest given solid shooting form. Shot 297 Vegas with one once. At distance, I’ve found drop away slightly and I mean slightly more forgiving. That’s at 60 yards and beyond. Back in the 2000’s my group harvested 7 Booners all shooting Biscuits, so there’s that too. Definitely a set it and forget it rest! A lot of hate for Biscuits out there, and unwarranted for certain.
Steve...I've mentored some beginning archers and you're correct....solid form is a must when shooting this rest, especially at distance. Their marketing plan has been brilliant as it seems every bow on the rack has one attached.
My Friend JJ! Thanks brother for doing this test! I never gave this much thought 💭 as you being the complete bow mechanic as your vids have demonstrated. I never doubted you! But, as you said, “going forward” it would prolly be best to keep all of the fan boys at bay, maybe try the limb driven rest for complete consistency! I just want the facts compared to the bow companies hype they put out there, and your vids hold them all accountable! Thanks for that MFJJ!
Awesome video! I’ll keep using my whisker biscuit. Never had an issue with them. A video I’d like to see is if there is an accuracy difference at different distances.
I believe that dropaway gives a little bit more forgiveness than any of the brush style rest at 50yards or farther , doesnt make much difference at FPS .
@@kkkzzz546 little bit. Lets look at that.. Contact the whole way, vanes flexing and twisting there way through the bristles a sloppy hole to sit in. vs no contact drop away . I can group at 50 yards within an inch with a drop away, 3-4 with a brush , add a breeze an inch turns to 2 and 4 turns to 10 . I hunt for an ethical kill fast kill, not a 2 hour search like the whisker lovers do . How many gut shot deer with a toilet brush rest, I say lots.
I think the kind of arrow used and, expecially, the kind of fletching, play a big role in the speed difference. I've little experience with biscuit style rests, but, maybe, the "Hostage" rest (I mean the one with the 3 brushes) shows even less speed difference compared to the fall away.
I have had these same results. What I do find interesting is how the standard deviation and extremely spread was smaller with the WB. The drop away had a greater SD and ES.
Great video. I personally prefer the fall away rests vs a biscuit, but the performance is negligible and won’t take away from overall bow performance. 🤘🏻
Back to a whisker biscuit. Been through the break downs and headaches of drop aways. Good ones too. Important to remember: There are 3 or 4 sizes of whisker biscuit. There should be around .03 inches above the arrow for space when knocked, from arrow shaft to top of biscuit when the arrow is resting on the bottom. Don't expect your best precision if you are shooting a 6mm arrow and a large Biscuit. The gap will be huge. 6 mm should use a small.
I honestly think both work fine, I just want something that is consistent all the time. For me personally the biscuit has not failed me, but I prefer the limb driven fall away.
I've done this exact same test so many times it ain't funny and there is so little difference in the 2 rest... I install more whisker biscuit rest in my shop than any other rest combined... it's just a good solid hunting rest... Love your channel keep up the great content
As a whitetail hunter I prefer a whisker biscuit.... because if the weather is cold enough a fall away can lock up.... the tech at my local bow shop told me that this has happened to multiple people he knows. A whisker biscuit is fail-proof and a more reliable rest. Also being up close and personal with white tails a whisker biscuit makes zero noise both on the draw or release. One more key is that its very difficult for your arrow to fall out of it once inside Just make sure you store your bow inside of your house because humidity can negatively affect a whisker biscuit
Shot a biscuit for years now, love it. No moving parts to worry about, no clearance issues to work out, nothing attached to the cable. The only real draw back i see is the fact that your arrow is in contact with the bow a little longer making form that much more important, but I've killed many animals with no issue.
You have a cadence about you MFJJ that I just can’t put my finger on, and I like it. I tell my hunting circle about your videos often and share your insights. I just purchased an bow vice and in the process of ordering a bow press. Your videos have boosted my confidence in this venture. Thank You.
Looking at going away from the biscuit, not for speed, but because of something you said in a fletching video about the Arizona ez fletch and vanes being taken off by the biscuit.
Hell, that bow was just getting warmed up like rifle on the bench. Shoot three more😉 On a serious note..set up a hooter shooter type device and do your testing to eliminate "any" human error. Just a thought if you want to get down to brass tacks. Cheers
A brand new biscuit will have a higher impact on drag, so if that's what you used you may want to try a well used biscuit that has channels in the bristles for the vanes to pass through with less drag. May make a slight improvement, but thanks for the video, your results were close enough for me to consider. Great job.
My question is what is the difference on a lower power bow. High powered bow's produce so much energy that the biscuit does not impact speed much. What happens when you have someone that has a draw weight under 35 lbs? I would guess that impact would be greater?
10 years ago I had a dropaway rest on my bow. Walking to my stand in the dark, and didn't realize I snagged my rest cord on some brush and ripped it clean out of my cable. Morning hunt was ruined. Went to a WB and never looked back.
I have the same chronograph and noticed you are shooting lighted nocks. From my experience especially using the strobeing nocturnal it has a tendency to affect the reading passing the sensors. Just my experience.
MFJJ you should take a look at the Black Eagle In Cam Timing System and let us all know what you think of it. Keep up the awesome work and love seeing what you do!
I have had two fall away rest fail on me. One was a ripcord the other a QAD. Both had internal spring failures and failed to drop. The Ripcord failed at the most inopportune time and it caused me to lose a big Buck.
I would be interested in a machine shot accuracy test at longer ranges. I've used both, I like both. But for hunting..... whiskers are quiet, have little to go wrong ,have nevered failed me .Drop away has.
I could be wrong, but I wonder if the difference might be more pronounced with a hootershooter…mildly varying levels of back tension during the shot could have an impact, doubt it would be much, but maybe the hootershooter could take the human element out of the draw mechanics
Splitting hairs. You are theoretically pulling against a backwall. Therefore you are only theoretically thinking about the stretch or elasticity in the string. Considering each strand is equivalent to ~300lbs tensile strength fishing line. At 18-24 strands on average you have a combined of 6,000 lbs of tensile strength. I'm not saying it won't make a difference or that the string doesn't stretch, but what I am saying is that the precision of his chronograph wouldn't be able to accurately show the decimal differences of how much affect a human can stretch a bow string. Just my opinion though.
@@HuntsT hmm…have you played around with a chrono before? I can get a lot more out of my bow with proper back tension than I can just pulling to the cable stops and punching…perhaps my bt-mag has a softer back wall than your bow? Either way when doing science, you’re technically supposed to split hairs ;)
@@tmalonso every science or engineering practice or calculation has a set "Significant Digit" calculation that matters for the evolution at hand. So my point on the splitting hairs was that an estimated repeated change in the fraction of Foot Per Second probably plays almost zero role on the "mechanical system" of which is shooting a bow accurately at distance. There are always going to be way to many variables that you can bring up and that would result in different results if performed by another person. Meaning different D-loop material (could absorb energy especially when pulling into the backwall), string material used, # of strands in the string bundle, were they pre stretched when created, how old are the strings, coefficient of fraction between the arrow surface and the rest contact point, nock release strength from string, forward pressure or sprung energy exerted by grip upon release of arrow (if its rubber or soft in any way it will compress and then decompress away from hand and toward the target), sprung force from the meat or skin on the palm of your hand... you could continue to dissect ever thing. Which is fine. But understanding at what point will this actually make any difference in performance might help. I plan on starting a channel soon. I hope to touch on many of the physics experiments and affects behind the various things that affect what we do when shooting a bow.
@@HuntsT you’re missing my point, I can achieve 3-5fps differences in velocity on my chrono when applying proper back tension on release instead of just holding at the back wall and punching the thumb button…I get what you’re trying to say, you think if it’s less than a fps who cares, but when it’s larger than the discrepancy produced by the whisker biscuit, it would seem statistically significant:)
Thanks for putting that to rest, No pun intended . I had always heard there was a difference of 6 - 10 fps.. So why Fall Away ? Is it more accurate than Whisker biscuit? Maybe that's next video
thanks MFJJ the same guy commented the same BS on my tictok. i got another one for you that ive heard and never tested. " a bow will break in strings and after the first 250-350 shots will actually gain 5-7 FPS after the break-in period." next time you get a test bow into the shop dyno it raw and after 500 shots to compare the performance. ill bet there is a slight increase.
I tried the same thing, 516 grain arrow, 69lb draw. There was no difference on my crono. Whisker is in my bow kit while elk hunting, its set equally with my hamskea just in case I need it. Everyone should have both.
would like to see this repeated with a hostage style three brush rest, the full brush biscuit, and after making sure the drop away was tuned well, since it's variance was sufficiently extreme that I doubt that particular set up could group especially well.
We tested those arrow rests and a Bowtech arrow rest (the kind with three containment bristles). We shot a ton of arrows through three different bows and got about the same results as you. The Bowtech containment bristle rest was the same speeds as the drop away rests due to no fletching contact. Also the regular vanes averaged 1fps more through the biscut vs blazer vanes.
Could the whisker biscuit start the rotation of the arrow earlier than a drop away? Potentially giving it more accuracy due to the fletching hitting a solid substance instead of air causing earlier and probably faster rotation. If you have helix mounted fletchings that is.
Makes one wonder if the whisker biscuit is actually the best all around rest for hunting. I'm sold on my hamskea but maybe its time for the biscuit lol
Good video - thanks for doing that. My take away is the ES (Extreme Spread) of velocity seems more consistent with the biscuit - would not have guessed that. That could mean better accuracy. In your spare time, would you do a larger sample size to confirm lower ES with biscuit....say a set of 30 each?😁
Haven’t used a whisker biscuit in years, but the more tests I see that try to demonstrate how much they suck make me consider going back to it… if the speed loss is negligible and the accuracy is similar, you have to consider the reduced weight, ease of use and quiet containment. Couple that with removing the possibility of mechanical failure, seems like all these string driven, limb driven rests have done a great job of marketing their products. We have all forgotten the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) rule.
Depends on how much you shoot. If you practice a lot whisker biscuit is going to destroy your fletchits. Whereas a Fall Away rest or a blade will not. That's the only difference for me. I shoot a lot. At least 200 arrows per day minimum.
@@hawaiiangunner I agree, if your using fletchings vs. vains; I’ve actually switched back to a whisker biscuit since writing this initial comment; pretty happy with my setup, heading off to Idaho next week to kill a bull elk!
I'm curious if it's the arrows that are giving you the different speeds because no arrow is the same just like no bow is the same. Anything mass produced has flaws but the only thing changing in this video is the arrows.
It's really cool you guys took the time to test out a long standing question. But you're sample size was too small and uneven. 50 shots minimum would be a better sample size
MFJJ, unrelated to this video but was wondering what your experience if any is with the trophy ridge react sights. Looking to upgrade to a higher end single pin. Any insight from you would be awesome. Keep feeding us the killer videos, they're the best out there.
Thanks for this. Next time do a lot more shots and just speed it up the sample size is really kind of tiny for a test. One thing that jumped out at me was the consistency of the wb compared to drop away but there was not enough shots to really see if more variance would have shown up. Anyways I like to see this kind of content
I would not have guess that the drop away rest would be so inconsistent. Anyone with good shooting form would outshoot the drop away with a whisker biscuit every single time. Is this a common issue with drop away rests? The physics don't seem to check unless there is vane contact or something really wrong with the mechanism. The most surprising thing about this whole video is that a speed variance of 5fps is monumentally more of an issue than losing 1.5fps but, it's hardly mentioned. I know that my whisker biscuit maintains a 1fps spread across 6 arrows using a labradar but, can't speak to the consistency of a drop away.
I might be a lil crazy. I would shoot same arrow 3 times. Thanks for the videos. I just started in archery for almost a month. Already kicking myself for getting a elite basin. I wanted to get a better bow @50lbs. Then I would have purchased new heavier limbs. I was told that’s crazy. I probably would have went with a $300-$400 RTS bow.To get my DW up. I started &45lbs DW. I am @56lbs. I will keep the basin for one of my 13YO daughters if they catch the archery bug. If anyone could let me know the best archery shop in tri-state area in New York where they let you try bows out. Don’t feel like driving to Lancaster.
Lol, I literally commented about the whole whisker biscuit vs drop away rest thing on one of your videos yesterday. I saw a guy doing some similar tests and he was seeing a much bigger difference, but he was shooting a much slower bow. It does seem strange that the drop away is so inconsistent.
I’d like to see a longer range version of this testing. 15-20 yards maybe? If there’s a 1.5-2 FPS difference coming directly off the bow at launch, what does that immediate slow in momentum do to the arrow a bit further? Just curious. Great video. Thanks for posting
I am adding another comment with my info. I have a Mathers V3X 29 27" draw I use a lab radar. With the same 360 grain arrow weight I bought the bow with a whisker bisket. With mod 60 LBS 85 let off I got 285 FPS Changed to mod 65 LBS 80 let off I got 295 FPS last. Added the QAD drop away rest. 65 LBS 80 let off. Same draw length. I got 295/294. In this test I lost nothing from my end. I really thought I would gain something. So far just a bit quieter.
The only reason why I switch from a whisker biscuit to a Fall Away rest was because I shoot so much that the whisker biscuit was destroying my fletches. I have seen no difference in accuracy whatsoever.
Question: It seems that the arrow speed of a compound bow and a cross bow are similar, true ? I have several compound bows now, abnd I am considering getting a cross bow. Only dis advantage in WA state is that crossbows are the same season as rifles.
For me it’s not about the speed between the two. I feel it’s about accuracy,durability. I feel in a just a hunting scenario a whisker biscuit is just fine. But in overall accuracy the fall away is much more forgiving. The biggest drawback with whisker biscuit is that they breakdown over time and with that your accuracy will suffer a bit. Plus if you shoot a lot( 100 +arrows a month ) the biscuit is hell on fletchings. JMO. But a cool video nevertheless.
Drop aways aren’t worth the money and your arrow comes out or jumps around when moving. The only rest out there that holds your arrow no matter what and gives you that 1-1 1/2 fps is a Schaffer XV
I’ve used both before but I’ll stick with QAD. I’ve had too many deer hear me draw back using a whisker biscuit and would spook before I could get drawn back all the way. With the fall away rest the deer can’t hear me drawing back
the variance is far too high with the drop away rest to come to a reliable conclusion - pretty sure that there is a plausible explanation for this. 326 fps vs 331 fps - that's 5 fps difference which would make the rest pretty shitty wrt accuracy of long distance shots! My guess is that because you didn't tie in the string of the rest into the cable properly you very likely got different timings for the duration the arrow is in contact with the rest, thus increasing friction. Setup the rest properly and tie it properly in - if you indeed still get such a high variance I would say the rest performs really poorly which would be pretty embarrassing for such an expensive rest.
to put this into context: if you shoot 60 meter the error margin caused just by the rest (if it really would perform so badly) would be already in order of 60 mm - even for a hooter-shooter!
