Diesel vehicles are not normally a fire risk. It was pointed out from the video that the flames from the vehicle appeared to originated under the front passenger seat which is where Range Rover Hybrids have their battery.
@@davidmartin6215one drop down at the DVLA and your car can be changed, with a government illegally holding Julian Assange in solitary confinement do you really think they would have any qualms about altering it?
The statistics show that ICE cars are about 60 times more likely to catch fire than battery cars. Hybrid cars however are the most likely to catch fire.
Isn't the absence of sprinklers and the ease of spread of the fire evidence of negligence on the part of the car park owners and designers? Not to mention the structure collapse. Especially seeing as was a relatively new building constructed under CDM rules.
so sorry that you are one of the unfortunate car owners ,, im sure you will get lots of silly stuff coming out of the staff working for the insurance company you are involved with , please come back to us when all has been sorted out i would dearly like to hear how you got on ,, by the way the very best of luck
@@johnnoonan5802 thanks. Trying to get information initially was a pain. Now I’m dealing with the insurance company. Let’s just say - they are not bending over backwards to help.
same here luckily enough our insurance has been great they have just paid us out waiting now to see if we can do a claim against car park management for failing to have sprinklers in it and for stress its caused
Worked for an insurer in the mid 90's and our insured caused a 72 car pile up and subsequent mass fire on the M25. We had to use our re-insurance to cover the full costs. The car at fault was a Sierra XR4X4 and post claim our premiums for that vehicle model increased by over 1000%, as if the pricing algorithm was trying to recover the loss. We never insured another XR4X4 thereafter. Seemed odd to specifically penalise that car model to such an extent that our pricing was essentially a refusal to offer cover to any other XR4X4 owner.
On the subject stolen vehicles: I had my car stolen and it was found by the police, who instead of returning it to me, chose to have it towed away and effectively impounded by a private company who had the contract to carry out such actions. I was told that it was impounded in order that the police forensics could check the vehicle. This of course was a waste of time and no evidence was collected. It was at this point I was informed by the company holding my vehicle that I would have to pay several hundred pounds to have my vehicle restored to me. I was incandescent with rage at this news, as many hundreds of other people apparently were. Some were so angry about this that they apparently attacked the compound where the vehicles were stored (of course after they had got their vehicles back). So, this company has had many arson attacks on them. I must say that I have little sympathy for them. It seems to me that they have a contract which allows them to carry out legal extortion. Would you say that there is any way to get redress for the loss incurred through no fault of the car owners who had no say about their vehicle being impounded?
the exact same thing happened to me with my moped, kid got caught with my moped in his living room when his mother called the police on him for aggressive behavior. He just had to say sorry and fix some of the damage he did. Which he did try to fix it a little and made it worse adding to the long list of extensive damages to the body, steering, steering lock, battery ect....put me in financial difficulty, lost my job on the same day that I bought a new bike, had to pay to get my other bike off police, insurance went up, 2 new mopeds on finance to pay for, huge repair bill. I had no choice but to sell my pride and joy as it was worth triple the amount my new bike cost. Made enough money to pay half of the debt owed for it, so for another year life was so tough and rice with peas with value fish fingers was for dinner several times a week. Only just fixed it months before it was stolen, it got crushed (along with my joints, neck and spine) like a coke can while I was waiting at traffic lights the year before and was just starting to recover from all that. Had a hard time selling it as I was accused of joy riding with a passenger all over the village along with reports posted on every advertisement I made from a few other nearby villages .....little git had 2-3 months of fun out of it......and I found that forensics carp from the police felt like a total scam, they had the kid who did it and they told me when I picked it up that fingerprinting does't work in real life....uch....then why impound my vehicle and charge me money to cover the twisted mess that was my beloved Yamaha signus x in dust? Well the police are mysterious creatures, haven't many pleasant memories accosted with them, plenty of horrific ones though! This was my nicest encounter ever! At least this time no women or children were sexually assaulted!
Is that police corruption? I had a vehicle stolen many years ago. When I reported it, it was *suggested* that I was trying to pull an insurance fiddle! The dvla still think I own it.
The collective brain has come to the conclusion that the Range Rover in question was a hybrid. This is born out of the fact that the intense flames came from the left side of the vehicle, where the battery is housed and the lack of dense smoke that accompanies a diesel or petrol fire.
I think it has been confimed to be a Hybrid now, there was a security video of the car driving in but it would apear to have vanished........ but a basic Reg check comes back as a 2014 Range Rover Sport diesel!! but if you run that reg through the parts database it comes back as a Ranage rover Sport 3.0 diesel Hybrid. As you say the HV battery on a RR Sport Hybrid is located just behind the left front wheel, so it could have been a fuel leak or electrical fire that set it off but the battery did apear to run away!!
A leak of ‘diesel’ would seem unlikely as the ‘original’ source of ignition, as electrical sparks would not usually be sufficient ignite diesel which requires compression rather than spark or even flame to ignite it. But that is for the fire brigade and insurance loss adjusters to investigate .
The fuel itself isn't very flammable, but diesel engine runaway is a thing where it starts burning up its oil. It's quite scary because shutting off the ignition doesn't stop it. Vanishingly rare with modern, well-maintained engines though.
@paulreading8980 But if it was a Diesel fire, the smoke would be thick and black but it was white. White smoke points to an electrical fire started right where the hybrid battery pack is.
It was pointed out on another video here that the smoke emitted from the "diesel" culprit was grey in color not black which burning diesel causes. Diesel also does not easily catch fire.
What a huge task to sort out. My limited experience with car insurance claims is that the company will wriggle out of absolutely anything they can, and never pay the actual replacement value of damage or loss. Good luck to everyone involved in this case.
Southern: I think I may have been extremely lucky becos when I had my van stolen the insurance Co. reimbursed me for the full 💯 percent price at which I paid for it - even though I had it three years - I was well pleased 😊😊😊
we have been lucky our insurance has paid out like they said where our car was there is no hope of it being not damaged ..... i also think the car park management should take some blame as no sprinklers and extinguishers were no good
Pure diesel car? I think not, you could throw a match into a bucket of diesel and it wouldn't ignite in that form. It would also be the first time in my long life that I ever heard of a diesel car spontaneously igniting, but along come EVs and hey ho it all kicks off, but of course they are not to blame, are they.
So the Hundreds of Diesel Vehicle fires that I attended during my 32 years of Firefighting Service didn't happen ? These are fire in vehicles powered by diesel, 99% of these fires are caused by an electrical fault or fractured oil pipe, or DPF,
I spoke to my neighbour, who also spent over 30 years in the Fire Service and he said he'd been to many petrol car fires but never to a spontaneous diesel car fire. He had been to a very few diesel vehicles on fire, but only those which had been involved in heavy accident impacts. So I would say, that you haven't been to hundreds of diesel vehicle fires, where the fuel was the initial cause. @@CDB8939
no leak from the fuel system on a diesel car could start a fire. .only when fire under way it would ignite as you first need to heat diesel to a temp first before it will ignite under pressure(compression) and heater plugs. .
@@lotuselise4432 That's only in Hollywood films that happens. In reality you can throw a lighted match into a bucket of petrol and the match would simply go out. It's the fumes from petrol that starts fires not the liquid itself.
My view is that it doesn’t matter who has to pay in the end because as the payout has come from the insurance industry, the insurance industry will just up the premiums for everyone and we all pay…
So I was right in my decision six months ago that I won’t ever be using a multi story car park again. It’s not only the risk of EV fires (runaways) but also the excessive weight of modern cars, EVs in particular. Our local car park was built in the 70s, how much do you think an average car weighed back then? Probably half that of a modern car/SUV/EV.
Depends on the car, I guess... A Cortina was a hair under 1 tonne. Capri and Sierra around 1100kg. Mk1 Jag around 1400kg. Mk2 Jag up to 1500. XJ6 around 1750 Mk5 Golf between 1150 and 1650. Mk7 Golf between 1200 and 1500. Mk1 MG ZS EV 1500. So some are heavier, some are about the same, some are lighter. Even in the 70s, it's doubtful they built car parks to only hold a fleet of Hillman Imps.
Tesla model 3 1752 kg BMW M3 1780 kg Tesla model Y 1980 kg Porsche Macan GTS 1965 kg Range Rover 2780 kg Audi Etron 2585 kg Modern cars are much heavier regardless of fuel type.
You'd have thought that a carpark with a couple of cars with tanks full of fuel, next to multimillion pound aircraft, full of fuel, would have a sprinkler system, especially given it was relatively newly built. Is that not negligent?
@@nighttrain1236 I agree, my local fire brigade has a web page that says ordinary water extinguishers should not be used on vehicle fires. But more specialised high pressure water mist systems (aka fog guns) can be effective.
@@nighttrain1236No but sprinklers may prevent the heat from one burning car igniteing the next one along and so preventing a chain reaction but as no car parks seem to have sprinklers there must be a valid reason for this.
Surely the parked cars and the car park are all insured? The insurance companies will be looking to apportion blame but they'd have to prove negligence on the part of the owner of the original car, perhaps storing fuel inside the car or something, or more pertinently a known but undisclosed design fault by the manufacturer. If I were Range Rover I'd be experiencing squeaky bum about now.
@@tlangdon12 size/weight of aircraft operating at airports depends on the strength of the pavement, what is called the load classification number. In simple language you cannot take the heaviest aircraft into some "minor" airports.
@tlangdon12 look it up, there is a genuine concern about the weight of electric cars in multi storey car parks, they were not designed for that sort of loading. Aeroplanes and runways is only relevant If you look at issues with the A380 airbus. You need to do some more research before posting flippant comments.
Diesel hybrid, battery is located under the front passenger seat where the fire started, same technology as an ev just with a diesel engine as well, lithium batteries give off white smoke when burning diesel burns with black smoke, video shows white smoke, 12v battery system was still working as video shows rear lights of the range rover Evoque was still on removing that as a cause, makes no difference if it's a full EV or hybrid diesel all factors point towards a lithium battery that is in both cars.
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zk0MWDsueMY.html You've said pretty much exactly what the guy in the linked video is saying. Thank you.
The insurers wont seek costs from the at fault vehicle as you cant prove negligence! I have worked on multiple fire claims as an insurance claims handler and when fire takes place and usually they wont move forward with litigation. Electrical or fuel fault is not automatically negligence. Frustrating as it is, this wll be 1500 fault claims on each person's policy.
I find it interesting that in this discussion about who can sue who, nobody is talking about JLR (who it would appear have something of an issue with fires in their vehicles). If it can be proven the vehicle had a manufacturing defect then surely they are as liable as anybody for the damage caused? Also, why isn't anyone asking more questions about the construction of the car park and why it collapsed like that?
Agreed, it's either Range Rover for manufacturing fault or the owners insurance for negligence. There is video evidence that the Range Rover started the fire, so one of them must be responsible!
Given that the smoke from the fire was grey and not the distinctive 'black as soot' colour that burning diesel fuel exhibits and the fact that the fire was raging at the front of the vehicle, I’d say it’s unlikely the car was a diesel (it’s fuel tank would have been at the rear). In all likelihood, this was a hybrid vehicle and the flames were emanating from the battery compartment.
Our diesel car went up in flames just before Christmas 2022 while in an open air car park. However it was established that the cause of the fire was an electrical problem under the bonnet. Wish I could attach photos, it was quite extensive.
my e39 5 series nearly fully caught on fire (got a lot of smoke through vents). Turns out it was my air con drain dripping onto the Auxiliary Diesel Heater wiring which then shorted out and actually was burning. (The only time that heater made heat). Cut the wires and put the fire out.
My mother's Toyota went up. The clutch was slipping and she hammered the hell out of it so much the hydrolic fluid in the clutch actuator popped with the heat. Hydrolic fluid will readily burn when it hits something hot. Similar to how lorry fires happen. The heat from a seized brake cause the brake fluid to burn. A passing taxi driver helped my mother, putting the fire out with his extinguisher.
@@pauldunn5978 all cars have fires. They happen. The main problem is An EV fire is massively more toxic and fierce. You can extinguish a liquid fuel fire with a hand held extinguisher if you act quickly. An EV.. All you can do is get away from it and wait for it to stop, hopefully stopping it from spreading. Once they are out they have a habit of reigniting hours to days later.
@@pauldunn5978 well it wasnt it was an eletric car its just a coverup because people already dont want to buy into this eco bullshit so they just pin it onto the diesel
But how do you PROVE it was actually the vehicle itself and NOT something IN the vehicle. I am curious because recently some friends had their house burn down, and after a long investigation = because IF the council could avoid paying out to rebuilt it they were going to look for every possible loophole - it turned out that it wasn't the fault of the residents. It was an iPhone charger that inexplicably burst into flames and curtains caught and it went up from there. Nothing to do with the tenants so they got their house rebuilt but apparently phone chargers - and they don't even have to be charging a phone I've since discovered - have been the cause in more than once fire. It is possible that something similar happened here (not necessarily iPhone charger but you get what I mean I hope) and the fire began with an innocuous electrical fire which simply set some of the plentiful flammable materials in a modern vehicle alight and it went from there. Wouldn't be the fault of the vehicle manufacturer, probably not even the fault of the owner and I've no idea who would be ultimately to blame. Interesting conundrum.
@ABC1701A It is a bit messy. The fire investigators will be looking VERY carefully at the car. What isn't been discussed is the fact that 112000( yep, that many) Range Rovers have had a product recall because of a spate of engine fires. A pipe has been coming loose,and fuel has been igniting on hot surfaces. But a lot of people seem obsessed with saying it's an EV or hybrid despite contradictory evidence.
The MIB have already held discussions over a sharing agreement with the insurers. We're already logging the new claims under a special fault code. And don't forget the presence of re-insurers. People who insure insurance companies.
Could Land Rover be sued? The reason I say that it appears the Land Rover have known about the fire risk to certain ranges of Range Rover Sport and LR4 vehicles since 2021? If the fire at Luton airport proves to be one of those vehicles could the insurance companies be looking at redress from Land Rover? I can see this going to get very complicated indeed.
Knowing something about Land Rover's design and implentation practices, it wouldn't suprise me if they knew there was a problem and failed to resolve it either at the point of development or later when incidents occured. Their policy seems to be, yes we know development is not complete and issues are occurring, but we need to release this model/feature/technology as it will be cheaper to pay the warranty costs than miss out on the revenue.
@@dmitripogosian5084you might if they have some form of personal liability cover. Well, it will all be the insurers suing each other anyway, but if they get a sniff of recovery from somewhere else they'll chase it down. Either way, premiums will go up by an extra £40 million for everyone who has insurance, regardless of whether they were parked in that car park 😂
Hi, just watched your video regarding who might be responsible for costs for the airport car park fire. Others have commented on what I am going to ask regarding installation of sprinkler systems or rather, lack of. I am of the understanding that sprinkler systems are only a recommendation in UK car park structures and not a mandatory requirement. European car park structures on the other hand do require fire suppression systems to be fitted in car park structures due to the inherent dangers of fires and previous fires causing massive costs, loss of life and property. Would not the owners who I had read declined the installation of a sprinkler system in this reasonably new car park have had a duty of care to cover all risks including the possibility of fire and in not doing so, should share some of the responsibility for the costs and damage this fire caused through negligence in not having a fire suppression system installed and knowing of the outcome should a fire have occurred.
BS. The reg no is out there. Its was even too old to be a hybrid. Stavanger airport carpark 2020 v similar, a diesel. LIverpool 2019 a diesel. Stockholm 2021 a diesel (zafira)
"The investigation into the cause of the fire continues, but it has been determined that the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car." - Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service.
@@Joe-lb8qn 1. The fire was from under the passenger seat where LR products place their batteries. 2. The fire was the wrong colour for burning diesel. 3. There was not enough black smoke, which there would be with a diesel fire or if other bits of the car were on fire. In other words the fire was providing it's own oxygen, which is what the chemicals in the batteries do. 4. The tail lights were on. So either the 12v battery was still functioning and / or the IC engine was still running. 5. There was an empty extinguisher next to the vehicle. Its use had failed to put out the fire, reinforcing the observation that the source of the fire was creating its own oxygen. 6. It is very difficult to ignite diesel. It has a relatively high flash point. 7. You cannot necessarily tell the age of a vehicle by its number plate - personalised plates. And so on. Those are my observations. I am happy to be contradicted if the investigation finds otherwise. Oh and I have edited my first post.
the cargo ship Fremantle Highway lost 3100 cars when a Porsche EV caught fire in the lower decks. The fire could not be extinguished & all EV's are now stored/transported on the upper decks.
So many petrol and diesel cars catching fire, and being wrongly reported as electric cars . Nice to see this video correctly identifying it was a diesel.
yes defenetly when it's 99% sure it was the ev side battery on a hybrid that failed it's like with lighters , millions ppl use them / 1% uses electrik but 99% of those that go to hospital bc it exsploded are elektrik as a electrician (graduate (bachlor) electro mechanics ) i'm sadly to say you are being fooled by net zero or clean energy it does not exist , all forms off energy we have produce heat - for electric it's the transport in the wires - the cooling or heating for the battery - the engine itself if than you take life time of most battery (just look how many 1.5v rechargeble you have trown out over the years) and the polution it takes to make it's a dream and the true intent is more controle that's why the digital meter, so they can see when you put on the heater to boil a cup of tea +the danger ev are so dangereus, we are special trained if we come near high voltage otherwise you are not alowed in high voltage cabins , every ev battery can kill so nobody will be able do anny work on their car beside clean it with some soap ( also perfect reason to lock engine away on safety lock that can only opended by the brand itself) +combine that with solar panels than every person will also set extra airco bc during summer they have to much energy so we can waste that on all kind things we normaly should not and it will result in higher increase of global temprature every step off it by itself is positif wish thinking that the total plan looks more like evil sceme thought up by a 5 year old that don't understand any of the rules his idee is subject to -not heat is responcible for the heating of the earth -human nuture is to do the right thing not the selfish -if we don't have sullution now we will find one in the close future -our leaders are the smartest and most selfless ppl we know
Yes. That troubles me. If I was the car park's insurer I'd want either a sprinkler system or a hefty premium hike. Maybe in the carpark operators eyes that trade off favoured the premium hike.
Looks relatively new so all the minimum fire protection would be as per building regs, which is extensive. However, even the best fire protection will be overwhelmed by a fire of sufficient intensity given enough time. I am speculating, but I suspect the building regs haven't caught up with the risks of EV batteries, which burn with great intensity and are very hard to extinguish.
Sprinklers aren't much good against diesel, petrol and battery fires. That's why fire brigades use foam if they have it. Zinc Carbide batteries combust on contact with water. Petrol + diesel float.
The vehicle was not purely a diesel one. It was a Range Rover Sport or Evoque PHEV (Hybrid) - there was even a recall by JLR for these vehicles as they had a fault with the Lithium ion battery unit that causes it to ignite. But the Lame stream media wanted to protect the EV side of things as they are all pushing the Net Zero bollocks. John Cadogan of Auto Express Australia did a brilliant analysis on the cause of the fire....no doubt in his mind it was a Range Rover Hybrid.
He did so brilliant an analysis that he ended up contradicting himself. 🙄 Anyway, the VRM is known for the vehicle in question, and it was a 2014 RR Sport 3L TDV6 ... not a hybrid battery in sight.
The vehicles lights were still on when the fire was filmed if I am correct. Also, by the looks of the fire location, it was a hybrid . Also a top floor fire extinguisher was already used before. Lithium in cases like this, no fire extinguisher will work. Could it be a Land Rover fault with a faulty battery? Put a match in a pool of diesel and the match will go out and not burn. Diesel needs a good heat source to burn in the first place.
When the owner of the offending vehicle applies for insurance there is a part on the form that asks for "asks for previous claims and the values concerned". WOW - how do you fill that in at £25m - £30m.
Its was not a good thing but nobody got hurt what made me laugh was that the 1st thing they stated was the car was a Diesel car just shows how we have changed our mindset it would have been reported as a Car fire a few years ago !!!
I was just saying to some friends earlier today that I bet the insurance companies will be hiring lawyers to find loopholes. Many owners will receive no compensation at all,and suing the Luton airport will be useless because they will deny all responsibility. This is another example of the war being waged on car ownership. The danger of possessing an EV will be mooted continually until few people have the courage,or stupidity,to buy one. Hence,fewer cars on the road,the ultimate aim.
Vehicle insurance is ALL underwritten by Lloyds of London The car park insurers will also be underwritten by Lloyds of London….. Brokers & companies are all the same company just with a different name & logo to make us Think we have choice, Why do you think we pay an additional premium Insurance Tax Premium? www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowances-insurance-premium-tax/insurance-premium-tax-rates
If you look where the car is(with the lights on).in theory looks like the owner was driving in and saw the fire tried to put it out with a fire extinguisher failed and ran off.@@Westhamsterdam
It doesn't really matter in the end who is liable but its a safe bet that the cost will be lumped into car insurance premiums for those drivers who are completely blameless...
That would probably go through travel or home insurance. If the driver is not covered by either then they'll have to sue and probably will get their cash sometime in 2030, at the earliest!
The vehicle that spontaneously combusted was a Land Rover - Range Rover Evoque diesel hybrid. The source of the flames coming from the passenger side of the vehicle where the battery compartment sits.
@@CDB8939 That was the one they parked in the middle of the car park to cover up the real cause of the fire. Not the actual car that was at fault. The actual vehicle was black. There is a cover up here for some reason.
@@barryamorris Why don't you look at the footage from both front and rear of the car. Note it is not parked in a space, the green pedestrian walkway can be seen in both videos. the fire extinguisher is in the same position at the rear offside of the car. The black SUV near the rear footage can also be seen from the front footage.
In spite of people desperate to pin the blame on EVs, the vehicle was a 2014, Diesel Range Rover Sport (L494) 3.0 TDV6 4X4. The first hybrids that Range Rover made in 2014 were based on the SDV6, not the TDV6. There is a video where you can see the front registration plate. Diesel may have a higher flashpoint, but it has a lower autoignition temperature. Diesel does not have to be under pressure to ignite. There are many other flammable materials in cars that could start a fire from an electrical fire or fluid leak. I am sure in due course the results of the investigation will be released, but until then, I will believe the details that are with the registration number.
Most car insurance policies have a cap of £20 million per event (set after the Selby rail crash). The owner of this car may be in serious financial trouble.
Selby is a a very interesting precedent too in terms of the car owner being held liable, even when their misfortune led to a much bigger incident than it should have done.
There would be little point bankrupting the owner of the car; it might only result in an extra £100 for each car owner; not enough to put someone through the hassle of bankruptcy.
A witness has apparently made public the registration, which comes back to a 2014 L494 RR Sport TDV6. This ties in with the statement of the fire chief when asked if it was an EV, but I have no corroboration as to accuracy. An electrical fault may have been the issue but with a car this old the insurance company is not going to be able to go after JLR. Someone is going to be getting a big bill!
The reg was out there and was car check shows its a pure diesel. Again all the experts in this comment section disregard this point because they clearly know better
The Vehicle in question being a Hybrid, CCTV footage clearly shows the fire started beneath the front passenger seat area which is where the battery is located. Also the nature of the flames are most certainly from a battery fire and not fuel related.
Try looking up where the battery is located in a Range Rover hybrid. I've read its at THE BACK and cross checked with other artickes several times. I'm guessing you are repeating what others have said. I've fallen into that trap once with something in this story. I won't do that again.
What's so annoying about this story is that the exact truth isn't been told. Was it a diesel vehicle yes but more importantly it was a hybrid diesel and anyone who knows about diesel they don't explode like that unless there was another source of incredible heat that can make the diesel combustion happen. When you look at the vehicle in question you can see where the fire is coming from which is where the batteries are located and then obviously spread and reached the diesel. But the explosion from the batteries is incredible and there's plenty of videos on RU-vid showing just how dangerous these vehicles can be a specially full EVs. What I find terrifying is that there's no warning going out to the general public about how dangerous these EVs & Hybrids can be when they explode and I can only come to the conclusion that they are trying to cover it up.
Absolutely correct. The media and authorities do not give a flying f about our safety, if it interferes with the net zero message they are all trying to force onto us. Our safety is secondary to reducing our carbon footprint (if EVs and hybrids really are even doing so).
What is annoying is the everyone is so keen to dunk on EVs that they forget that petrol and diesel cars have in the past, and continue to, catch fire. And people keep focusing on 'diesel' and rightly claiming it is very hard to set fire to, but the cause of most car fires are electrical in nature. The power source, is rather redundant in most cases. Though a LiOn battery is hell to put out, its not going to spread any faster. As for cover ups. Have a look at the list of recalls that JLR have had to make. Or any other car manufacturer for that matter. There is no cover up, the info is right there. Its just its not going to make the nightly news bulletin unless its another 'Pinto'. But everything needs to be a conspiracy. Its the fashion nowadays.
@@chrishartley4553 I do wonder about that. Modern fortunes (especially the USA) have been built on petrochemicals. So far it has not been them leading the charge (sorry....) on EV cars. Doesn't make sense to me that governments that have proven time and again they're in the pockets of petrochemicals would want to move to EVs. Unless... There was a darn compelling reason..
i assume that the building owner will not need to pay, because he/she needs only to pick up the phone and tell the PM they would like to donate to the Tories, but all they need is that the tax payers will cover it... which is logical to a Tory, tax payers are there to help rich people to save money!
A car fire in a multi-storey facility ( any type of car and any make ) normally results in multiple fires of surrounding vehicles especially in an open sided design. It is a foreseeable event so the car parks owner / designer/ insurer are at fault along with building control
The vehicle in question was a diesel hybrid. From photographs, the fire is under the front left, where the lithium ion battery is located. It still has it's lights on, showing that the 12 volt system is not compromised. CCTV shows an explosion, not blackbillowing smoke which is what normally happens with a diesel fire. John Cadogan at auto expert has chapter and verse on this. Beware EV's with a battery in thermal runaway, all you can do is run away from the fire.
There was a similar case in Ireland in 2019, when a diesel car caught fire and burned down a shopping centre car park, with damages estimated at over €30m. The shopping centre owners sued the car dealer who sold it and the manufacturer. Some of the retail tenants sued the car owner and the dealer. The car in question, an Opel Zafira, was subject to a recall, which had allegedly not been carried out on the car. Proceedings seem to be continuing on the matter.
yes that was in Co Cork ireland , forgot about that big fire,, im sure its still going on and will for some time to come , yes i think the zafira had issues ,and there was mods to be done on them
If memory serves, Zafiras had a thing for catching fire, to the point there were multiple recalls over several years. By coincidence, someone sent me a screenshot from social media just a few days ago of exactly that model of car doing a roman candle impression quite effectively.
Would have made no diffrence, literally the last thing you want on a liquid fuel fire is water!!......... When a Lithium battery runs away water/Foam or Co2 won't put it out. The car park was designed with Petrol/Deisel lower temp car fires in mind, so the thermal insulation on load baring metal work etc wasn't high enough rated (but it did meet the standard saftey ratings for a car park). On top of that, there is a video of an explosion breaching into the level below! That was an EV battery exploding, i couldn't tell you if it was the Range Rover Sport Hybrid or not but a Petrol or Diesel vehicle don't explode like that (unless you at in Hollywood).
@@K2edg Firstly it was just a plain diesel car, Secondly Sprinkler would have been very effective at limiting a fire to the original car fire. Car fire will burn at 1,000 deg C plus no matter what it is powered by. There was no explosion. just the floor decks collapsing down when the steel structure failed. The already burning cars that came down were on the floor above.
@@paulbryant4518 I meant how do you know that’s the exact model of that particular vehicle. There was a video capturing the plates and it was confirmed to be a 2016 diesel
The good news and bad news is the Range Rover looked to be a hybrid vehicle. The source of the fire seemed to be under the passenger seat. I saw a detailed report that included empty fire extinguishers near the vehicle. I tend to agree that the insurer may have a fairly hefty problem on their hands WRT that fire.
@tonigon5767 But a simple check finds the lithium battery pack in a Sport Hybrid is under the luggage compartment at the BACK of the car. Sorry but its amazing so many people are saying otherwise. It pays to do a little research before before making a comment or quoting other people. I made a small mistake earlier on this thread and felt a bit daft. Won't do it again.
@@pauldunn5978 from Landrover themselves, high voltage components under front seat and floor pan as well. www.landrover.nl/Images/LR-RR-Sport-PHEV_tcm289-586760.pdf feel free to see if it is the same on all models. I think this from 2018 onwards.
I was under believ that behind a barrier where you pay for parking the cars security and well being etc was the car park owners responsibility so if a car goes up in flames and damage is caused to your car. It would fall on the carpark ownership. I have been in some private ones that have sprinkler systems and foam and powder extinguishers sited. Not that a hybrid or ev battery fire could be put out by sprinklers or extinguishers etc hence why ferries are refusing to carry them now 😊
Based on the video of the Range Rover, firstly why wasn't it parked in a bay rather than in the middle of the 'road'? Secondly, wasn't the fire supposed to have started on the roof, yet this was clearly under a roof? Confused :)
There is a suggestion that the driver had not yet parked and had stopped the car realising it was on fire and attempted to use a fire extinguisher from the car park without success. If it is indeed a hybrid and the fire was the Li-ion battery, that was a futile gesture
If you toss a lit match into a puddle of diesel fuel, it'll go out. That's because diesel is much less flammable than gasoline. In a car, it takes intense pressure or sustained flame to ignite diesel. So we can safely conclude that it wasn't a diesel vehicle that was responsible.
@@TheLongonot62 can you show me one instance where a diesel vehicle spontaneously combusted, before we had the mass craze of electric vehicles ? I can show you plenty of electric vehicles catching fire without 3rd party involvementl.
@@action1976 Liverpool Arena Car park, 1,500 cars destroyed, Cause - Diesel Range Rover, Electrical Fault. Fires in diesel fueled vehicles are 99% caused by electrical faults
The craziest thing about this is a relatively recently "updated" multi storey car park wasn't fitted with a sprinkler system. This may have stopped the cars nearby catching fire and the fire spreading. Would be interesting to see the regs on this.
@@musicandbooklover-p2o A car fire is not a chip pan or oil fire. It is a fire involving plastics, foam, paint, rubber, etc. Sprinkler will contain it and prevent fire spread to other vehicles
I thought it was a hybrid and in that vehicle the batteries are situated underneath the left front floor pan , from the video you can clearly see the floor is flaring up from that spot.
How on earth a new car park attached to a major airport got away without requiring an fire suppression equipment is beyond me. The sad truth is hundreds of car owners are going to lose out despite not being at fault and already no doubt suffering.
Even if, hypothetically, the fire originated from a petrol or diesel car, if there were no electric cars in the car park, I wonder if the firefighters could have brought the fire under control much faster, and saved the car park and all other cars from being destroyed. I get the impression that electric car fires are very difficult to extinguish.
For a barrister you are a bit short on your facts. The Landrover was a diesel HYBRID! The flames are roaring from the font left, exactly where the lithium battery is located. No way was that a diesel fire.
Bandwagon Jumping on EVs for spontaneously igniting may be a thing. However, Diesel demonisation is also a thing. As a realist, its far more likely. or as the Legal profession would say, "on the balance of probability" its near infinity more likely to be some form of EV. Also the spread of the fire is highly likely, (see above for translation) to have accelerated the severity of the blaze.
Very good points. I think all car parks should have sprinklers as a matter of safety Building control need to change specs. As for the Architects who designed this car park must have cut corners.
Looks like the arse end of a diesel hybrid to me (as a previous owner of a Land Rover of around the same year of manufacture)... And the car park didn't have a suppression system... Which undoubtedly aided the spread of the fire. They also pack them in tight, which aids the spread of the fire too. I wonder how many electric cars aided the fireball by going thermal runaway, just by being there... Multiplying the effect of the fire, by adding chemically produced oxygen, rather than depleting it, as normal fires do. Also, last point... Look at the video again and show us all the thick black diesel/ petrol smoke, not the whispy white chemical haze... It was a hybrid, fire is coming from the battery... Look up the registration of the car.
Actually its speculated that it was a hybrid battery that caused the fire as it started on the left front of vehicle where battery is stored and don't forget if other EVs are on their floor this would participate the runaway fire and intense heat causing the building to collapse.
"The investigation into the cause of the fire continues, but it has been determined that the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car." - Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service.
Diesel hybrid. Diesel is hard to light on fire, petrol easy with a flame, but EV batteries have their own volatile problems, like self igniting @@simonjones2240
I did'nt think barristers would so easily accept the 'official' line that this was a diesel fire. The initial fire is in the area of the hybrid battery and is forcefully projecting fire and combustion products down and away from the battery location without much black smoke. The authorities that so badly want us to buy EV's, i suggest have 'adapted' the narrative to blame diesel fuel not the EV battery. Now i wonder why?
I saw an article that said they didn't think any of the vehicles could be salvaged. But they had a picture of the car park following the fire, clearly showing vehicles that could be repaired. I actually think they can't figure out a way to extricate the vehicles from the building and are intending to demolish the building with them inside.
Petrol would have been more plausible, but the average journo's knowledge of real world physics would be scant, to say the least. I raised more than an eyebrow when they said "Diesel was the cause"...🤔
Insurance companies discussing who’s liable that needs to be televised, absolutely pure comedy. I despise them, they are an unfortunate necessary evil and no one will convince me otherwise.
The car was a Ranger Rover Sport. A diesel yes, but is is a hybrid diesel/electric so does have a massive lithium battery in the area where the car was on fire at first. You can easily tell which model of Range Rover it is by the rear lights.
Always nice to see how few lawyers know about anything outside the law books. How do you even ignite diesel? How do you make it explode? Ever heard of hybrids?
Remember the Selby rail crash in 2001 when a driver, Gary Hart, fell asleep at the wheel while towing a trailer on the M62, ran off the road onto a railway line and caused a multiple train derailment which killed 10 people? Apparently this eventually cost his insurer over £30 million, and as a direct result of this I found a note attached to my next car insurance renewal explaining that the 'third party damage' cover had been changed from unlimited to £250,000. Apparently the third party injury cover has to be unlimited but the insurer can put their own limit on third party damage. It turned out that all the insurers were doing the same thing with varying limits to the third party damage cover, I looked around and eventually found a company whose limit was much higher at £5 million. So my point is that if this situation is still the same the owner of the car that caught fire might find (if all the claims eventually end up with his insurer) that his cover is nowhere near enough to cover it.
Where was the fire suppression in this carpark , one range Rover doesn't burn 1500 cars and an entire parking structure in the real world when regulations are followed and I had a diesel Rover catch fire and burn to the ground while driving home one day . All loose possessions were salvaged , nothing of the car .
For everybody below saying there should have been sprinklers is wrong. Sprinklers would simply create a spreading pool of water that eventually would cascade down the ramps with burning fuel floating on top. The only thing that puts out a fuel fire is foam.
I agree that water should not be used on a vehicle fire. But also, any fire extinguishant with a Type B certification will be effective against a fire involving flammable liquids, including vehicle fuels. Foam is a Type B extinguishant but there are a number of others, including dry powders such as Monnex and multipurpose ABC. Lithium metal fires need a Class D extinguishant, of which Lith-X and Pyromet are example products.
@@CDB8939 Thanks. I've certainly remembered having heard that before, notwithstanding the advice on the Gloucestershire fire brigade website. My local petrol station has foam portable extinguishers on its forecourt - I checked yesterday when popping in for my shopping. When we used to use Monnex at work, I read that this BC rated extinguishant was popular in motorsport and aviation, but we eventually swapped our Monnex for ordinary ABC, to assure performance against Class A fires. I think the event at Luton has been hyped out of all proportion by those looking to hate on EVs.
If it is traced to one car, will the person that insured that vehicle have to report the claim going forward? Imagine that on the insirance quote form: Q: Any claims in last 5 years? A: Yes, for about £15,000,000!
While the carpark may not have caused the fire, It has been suggested that there were no sprinklers installed during the upgrade a few years ago. Given that people pay to park their cars in the carpark the owners must surly have a responsibility to ensure that their service is safe to use. It would seem therefore that they should have reasonable fire prevention or containment measures in place. Given the rapid spread of the fire and the possible lack of containment if no sprinklers were installed, then there is a burden of responsibility on the owner.
Land Rover class action lawsuit should be coming in, since their faulty diesel hybrid caused the fire. There have been multiple fires in these PHEV vehicles, and Land Rover knows it's faulty.
I have heard that the vehicle that they think caused the fire was a 2014 diesel hybrid Range Rover which does have a lithium battery located close to the front nearside wheel. This needs to be confirmed, but I can fully understand the some people may wish to gloss over the fact that the fire may have been caused by an EV hybrid.
They are saying it was a diesel engined vehicle. From the video of the initial fire, it looks like a hybrid vehicle. The fire is in the very place the battery is placed in the Landrover hybrids.
That was a hybrid, my friend. This is the first time in history that a 'diesel" vehicle combusts like this. Only forgot to mention that even if it's a diesel, also contains a very flammable lithium battery underneath. It's also very funny how you get branded a conspiracy theorist for stating the facts, but nowadays, it's an honour to be called a conspiracy theorist.
