If it's a real battle with swords clashing, armor clanging, canons firing, soldiers yelling, etc.... (take your pick).... an arrow would make no sound at all compared to everything else. I'd venture to guess that you would never hear an archer or the arrows they're firing during a real battle.
@@taekwondotime pretty sure the sound of your mate screaming in agony with an arrow or bolt sticking in his softy bits might down out the whizzing by of the arrows with your name upon them...
"It's largely a pointless exercise but the sound is fabulous." Yes this was an excuse just to record how bloody cool flying arrows sound and we are all very ok with it.
Well combatants in modern 20th century always report being able to differentiate between enemies shots and theirs, by the rate, pitch and quality of the gun sounds (I know in Vietnam NLF soldiers would recognize an M16 burst from miles away for instance) So it's not so out there to imagine experienced medieval soldiers could tell what the hell was being shot at them, even if they were wild guesses
@@ivyssauro123 This is true of really anyone who spends time around guns firing (hobby or conflict) the sounds of guns operating are different (common example is AK vs AR) but also the gunshot, a super easy distinction is the difference between a .22 out of anything, and a pistol caliber and a rifle caliber out of their respective platforms.
@@bikerdude923 Indeed, I personally don't have much experience with guns, as they're very restricted here, so I have to go with reports by people in books or videos. But even then we do have ironically a very big cartel militia activity around, and even by hearing those guns being shot at 150/1000m away we cam tell it's an SMG, a full power rifle like a FAL, a pistol etc
Patch Notes: F1 cars have been adjusted to bring them in line the dev's expectations. We believe this will allow the races to be more exciting for all.
There is a distinct difference between a "woosh" of the lighter arrows, then that "NYOOM" of the heavy, faster war bow arrows, and that would 100% make me clench harder.
I have a hard time picking out a tone shift before the last 3, but I am able to pick out a small difference, though how quickly the volume and Doppler effect change, in how quickly they are passing me/the microphone. I expect with the kind of experience you don't want, I could learn to tell the velocity of the arrows appart at the moment they were passing me based on that. At those distances, however, it's easier to tell the twang of the bowstring apart. Which of those I'd be more able to hear through the noise of battle and any armor I might have on my head, though, but both together to a _good_ ear I think would give a decent change of identifying roughly how fast they were shooting. Green soldiers or those with some hearing loss or a noisy enough situation, though, and that might go out the window. But hey, that's just my ears (of which there are better out there) listing to some
You just expanded the digital library! I thank you so much for this! Every single little piece of information helps us widen our understanding. This is valuable for film and game making.
For writing historical/fantasy novels as well. Videos and experiments like this one provide valuable info for improving verisimilitude of the written works, and hence, the immersion of the reader.
@@horium2501 great point, never did I consider the sound of bolts and arrows velocities like modern day rounds flying. Honestly a seasoned troop can identify different weapons so I imagine the same was true to an extent. Is love to hear the crossbow and longbow comparison. For a writer/director this could add entirely new insights to a scene
That last few seconds where very impressive. Add the sound of the clothes, armors and screams - of pain or rage - and you got yourself already a nice PTSD ambiance...
"Tod hath a swift hand He doth gaze upon the fyrd, and he maketh a plan And he hath a jaunty cap Perched upon his head, he is a longbowman He did find an old lockdown longbow And a quiver of arrows in some old chest Wherefore I cannot say But he cometh for thee, yea he cometh for thee"
As someone who has done Masters research in both pure and social sciences, while you might not think what you are doing is controlled enough for pure science research, you do a great job of hitting some of the main aspects of the latter, more "woolly", field's requirements. You are clear from the outset on what you are investigating, make plain your assumptions and limitations. You place your work in its context and are transparent with your interpretations and avoid extrapolation of your results beyond the scope of what you've done. You're not going to produce an unassailable Magnus Opus, but you aren't trying to, and it's not realistic to under the circumstances. Great work! I'm really enjoying your Lockdown series.
Could have been part of regular training, have a trench just in front of the butts. Guys in the trench pull arrows after everyone shoots their quiver, and they swap who is in the trench and who is shooting.
Yeah and something they never get right in movies is you hear the impact or the whiz of the bullet first, and then right after the bang, even if it's at close distance.
if you hear the shot your still alive, thats what we tell all the new guys they are to used to TV and movie bullets. as a soldier you are even able to tell the caliber of the rifle shooting at you, even now years later i can still tell when they are shooting in the townships how far and what type of weapon
@Jon Goat Yeah I hear ya, but what gets me more than anything about the sounds of guns in movies is the exact opposite really. It's never really loud like it is irl. Now I get it, you can't have peoples eardrums bursting while watching a movie, but just once I'd like to see the people around the shooter in a movie jump, flinch, drop whatever is in their hands and put their fingers in their ears, 'cause that's what you do when someone fires a gun next to you, especially indoors, if you're not wearing earplugs.
This is quite interesting for RPG purposes. From now on, an experienced enough ranger can, absolutely, differentiate goblins/orcs/elves shooting at them in my campaign XD
Thank you so much for doing this! I've been telling people fpr years that practice and hunting arrows sound different but they always look at me funny, even bowhunters.
"I think getting hit by any of them is pretty bad news" Tod, sir, that is a beautiful piece of understatement. As ever, a fun and informative video, thank you.
This is amazing research for video games really! Most modern FPSs, specially tactical ones(Post Scriptum, Arma, Insurgency, Rising Storm/red orchestra etc) , have amazingly accurate, and oftentimes terrifying soundscapes, bullets hitting and flying around you, realistic shot sounds, it's a defeaning situation which almost make the use of "Suppression" visual effects overkill. But medieval games on the other hand always seem to have very Hollywood-esque sounds, shimmering theater swords and toy arrows etc(The one with the best sound I can recall was the short lived 'War of the Roses' game and maybe Kingdom Come) as well as pretty toned down armour clanking etc, I wish they'd dedicate this much to making the soundscape as terrifying as it probably was!
Fun fact about modern warfare, The sound a bullet makes passing 100m or 5m is quite different. A supper sonic bullet passing next to you will make sharp snap. Soldiers who hear that generally get their head down because that bullet was most likely intended for them. If the bullet is bellow the speed of sound it will make a whiz as it passes near you and is most likely a ricochet, a lost bullet or both. It is still cause for concern because it can injure you, but either the guy shooting at you is out of range, sight is out of place or their not shooting at you.
No standard rifle bullet used in modern warfare is going to drop from supersonic to subsonic within 100m. The main difference between 100m and 5m would be how much the muzzle report is delayed after the supersonic crack from the bullet passing by. The subsonic whizz is a pretty neat sound though
@@SepticFuddy Do you know were You get your velocity statistic from because on the wiki of 5.56×45mm NATO it states that the round was design under the guidelines of being supper sonic at 500 yards which is roughly 450m on combat cam videos you can hear the crack from long range combat with the delayed arrival of the gun sound. if the round were to be subsonic at 100m, you would hear the shot before the bullet at 300m which is not the case. But the distance i was mentioning was latterly. the sonic boom of a bullet will dissipate and you wont hear it as sharply as if it was next to you
@@python27au So nato 7.62 is still super sonic at 300, I don't know what this other guy is on about Modern military ammunition being sub sonic at 100m. also thanks for the story, I have not been in the military but I used to be one of those kids who would pretend to know everything about it.
@@SepticFuddy he prolly meant the distance the bullet is passing from the listener. Not the distance between listener and shooter. If you're at 5m from the shooter and need to listen if the shots are meant for you, you're prolly blind.
That last bit was exactly what i was craving after the shield test and the sounds that accompanied it. Its one thing to read a story, its another to hear what was heard by those who experienced it. Brings a much more visceral feel to the whole experience. :-) great job!
There's a slight difference in time of when you can hear the release and when you can hear the arrow itself. The 60lb bow had the longest space of empty sound, while the 160lb was almost instant. Someone with balls to spare, could train their ear by setting up a stout cover wall to hide behind, learn the poundage and distance. The merc commander who did that, would radically increase his response success rate.
There absolutely are historical whistling arrows. Used for signaling and ritual (China and likely other East Asian armies) and by hunters to ground birds (ie. convince them to land and/or not fly off). It was definitely a thing and records/artifacts exist to confirm this. The current ones may be only for entertainment, though I'm sure the historical archers were entertained by them as well, they were useful things.
Whistling arrows were also used by turkic and mongolic peoples. There is an account of a Xiongnu Chanyu teaching his army to shoot in the direction of his own whistling arrows.
As an actual scientist I'd just like to let you know Tod, that your "completely unscientific" methods are more true to the actual scientific method than most "science" I see in news reports.
@@rhettcollins1 Maybe remove the obvious noise components and curve them all to equal power at least. Your fourier contains likely a single - strong - fundamental elevating /shifting in pitch with airspeed / Doppler , and perhaps the tiniest of harmonics series or perhaps "overtones" generated by unforseeable interactions with the non-stable air medium between the mic and the parts at play and wiggly wood. Not super exciting, what were you looking for?
the only missing component is a fixed position to shoot at a similar distance off the microphone. But I don't think the difference between doing that and what we heard would be major. I for one I glad he did this and I am also terrified of those sounds 0.0
I have a hard time picking out a tone shift before the last 3, but I am able to pick out a small difference, though how quickly the volume and Doppler effect change, in how quickly they are passing me/the microphone. I expect with the kind of experience you don't want, I could learn to tell the velocity of the arrows appart at the moment they were passing me based on that. At those distances, however, it's easier to tell the twang of the bowstring apart. Which of those I'd be more able to hear through the noise of battle and any armor I might have on my head, though, but both together to a _good_ ear I think would give a decent change of identifying roughly how fast they were shooting. Green soldiers or those with some hearing loss or a noisy enough situation, though, and that might go out the window. But hey, that's just my ears (of which there are better out there) listing to some
Todd is absolutely right here. Experienced men could distinguish different sounds of arrows and bow types. To strengthen this statement there is a wonderful book called " All Quiet on the Western Front " and in this book there is written how veteran soldiers could hear different types of artillery shells coming at or near them just by the sound, even could estimate rough place where they should hit, so that way they could avoid getting blown. And i think it would be no different for the bows, arrows or any other ranged projectile. How this could help is another question, but the fact is that you could distinguish what is coming at you and from what weapon so that you could react accordingly.
Jon Goat you are aware that he just set up something in his backyard and recorded using a gopro? with a setup to eliminate ambient noise and good recording equipment you should be able to get a clean, high quality recording of these sounds
I would love to here a multi-layered soundscape of what it must have sounded like to be on the receiving end of sustained fire from battles like Crecy and Agincourt.
Yes but the first thing I tell all the noobs on the paintball field when they talk about hearing the paintballs all around them is this. The sound of them nearly getting you is also identical to the sound of them not getting you. Nearly means didn't. keep moving for better cover. That sound means that they aren't hitting you because you are probably out of their practical range.
I was paintballing once and stood up from cover about five feet from someone with a twitchy trigger finger, and took a paintball to the upper lip and both rows of teeth. Non-toxic, but tasted horrible.
That sound clip at the end was absolutely terrifying, I literally instinctively ducked behind my computer desk lmao-- it literally sounded like a scarier version of a gunfight with all the impacts and sounds of projectiles flying. The sounds of the bows snapping right before the whizzing even sounds almost like gunfire. How the knights at Crecy didn't just immediately retreat and crap themselves I don't know
For the two actual bows, I think the crack of the string has more of a noticeable difference than the flight of the arrow, but with your crossbow/longbow simulator the speed is enough that there is a definite difference in the sound of the flight of at least the last three, though the first sounds quite a bit like the bows but is distinctly different, while the second and third did sound quite a bit alike each other as well. Also given that it's not a true long bow, I can't help but wonder if there'd also be a more audible crack from the string as well.
the sound is a combination of things. one weight, lighter the arrow the faster the speed which results in louder the noise. next is the fletching cutting through the air causing the noise. I bet if the fletching was altered it would make different noises. the head of the arrow really plays no part in the noise. but the type of arrowhead could also determine how fast an arrow travels and rotates to play a part.
@@geronimo5537 I wish I had the tools to test this out. I would spend days shooting at an invisible target and changing one thing at a time, just for the sake of knowledge :D
Nice. Before I got into archery, I just assumed that all arrows whistled/screamed like in the movies. I had an interest in longbows, so I got to visit a longbow match. The archers stepped up and fired off their first ceremonial volley. Perfect, loved that arcing whistling sound as they flew to their targets. Then the archers loaded their second arrows and let go -- nothing, barely a whisper in flight. Just a twang and a thud. That stunned me, and it was rather awesome. I asked them afterward and it turned out they had attached whistlers onto their arrows for the first volley. That's when I learned what an arrow really sounded like. I've made my own whistlers since then because it's cool, but I just love the sound of arrows in general.
One of the thing I noticed is that the sound of the arrow leaving the bow is faster than the sound of the arrow going over head and I am willing to wager that not only can the type of arrow be guessed but range can be as well.
Well of course, the sound is much quicker than the arrow itself, so you must hear the shot first. However your idea is valid. judging the delay shot/arrow must give you an indicator of the range. The question only is, how usefull that information is. With an arrow, you are likely to guess the direction, you are shot from and then it is "the archer in that direction. Besides, the delay is quite small, so it will differ anly a little bit for different ranges. Not sure if you could "count" the delay.
The speed of sound in air is about 340 meters per second, if you can count the difference between bow “pop” and arrow “fizz” and taking a guess at the speed of the arrow you can work out the distance Of course all of this hinges on you thinking beyond “Oh bollocks I’m being shot at with arrows”
That seems to be vastly amplified by the crossbow simulator too, a very much differnt launch noise. Though how much of that is because its much higher energy and how much is because its a crossbow needs looking into. That could actually be a good thing to be able to hear - knowing its a crossbow and judgment on the bolt speed lets you know if its going to take them a while to reload for example (A much safer relocation if they have a few seconds on the winding handles till the next shots which a bow or light crossbow does not take as long to shoot the next shot). I'd say guessing the range is much easier than the arrow as the variations of fletching, shaft material, thickness, etc (I expect the fletchings are where most of the variation in sound would be as its almost certainly where the noise is largely generated- but till its tested...) will change the tone so unless you have lots of experience being shot at by this 'brand' of arrow its going to be tricky - Where the speeds of the arrow in Tod's shield test at the target are all relatively speaking very similar so the mental estimate of range will be much more dependent on the time between launch and arrow overhead sounds and their doppler shift (as the speed of sound in air is much higher than the arrow speed and the shift is a very good indication of speed past you anyway). Though if you could really hope to hear that with more than one or two archers shooting at you I doubt it too many launches and arrows at once.
When the commander tells his squad to stay quiet for a few seconds, and even the wounded and dying people stop screaming, knowing well how important it is for their commander to focus on this one sound. He studied arrow sounds his entire life, just for this one moment of truth... "GUYS, I THINK THEY'RE USING 160 LBS LONGBOW SIMULATORS... WE STAND NO CHANCE... RUN!!!"
"So in a very unscientific way..." - This is surprisingly very scientific. You want to know whether a certain phenomenon exists. You make a hypothesis (Arrows make a different sound based on archer, bow, arrowhead, etc...), you test the hypothesis, and analyse the results. Don't discount what you're doing, it's very, very, very interesting, and could one day lead to other research in fields nobody could have foreseen. Also, love your videos. I want all the swords
From someone who has spent a good few mornings standing just under 7.62 rounds whizzing over my head at a full bore range, this does not sound the same at all. The vast majority of rifle ammo will be travelling at supersonic speeds and you therefore hear more of a crack than a whizz as it goes past.
John Beauvais Communist Sweden classify crossbows same as rifles and pistols, you have to be an ctive shooter in a club and then ask for a license from the police. Not even ENGLAND have regulations on crossbows. My country is such a killer of everything that is fun
"It's largely pointless, but the sound is fabulous" You'd be surprised to know how much great science has been set in motion by a variation of that quote :D
I should imagine that the type/amount of fletching would have an effect on the sound of the arrow ? Next test - the difference in sound between English and Mongolian arrows !!?
record the sound of the arrow from the "longbow simulatorXD" with a music program multiply for 1k arrows sound and play them together at once to simulate a volley of arrows= welcome to the battlefield ^^
Wow, an absolutely gut-wrenching sonic rendering of a battlefield at 6:44. Absolutely terrifying hearing the first shots ring out, just before the barrage. They're even more like gunshots than I would've imagined. Great work on this. If only I could take my field recorder equipment and get some of these sounds...might have to seek out some new friends in the local archery community.
science was born by observation and recording, don't be so fast to mention something is scientific or not. you do your test, others do other tests and science is the culmination and differences between all information. what you doing, if it can be replicated, is scientific.
The only difference between science and fooling around, is writing it down. Everything is recorded, important variables are controlled and documented. This looks like a scientific experiment to me. The only things lacking, are sample size and error analysis, also in line with a lot of scientific experiments.😶
Thanks - it is just that I cannot stand people stating something is fact when it is just an observation or opinion, so I am careful to say that I am not stating a fact, and as soon as something is presented as science, to most people that is 'fact'. I do try to use a scientific method, but my sample size is too small for it to ever be considered as such; I am just trying to give a direction of thinking more than anything.
Tod's Workshop to be fair many modern scientific studies cannot be replicated. What is cool about this and other channels is people try to replicate the results.
@empbac You made some good points, and I think I have to agree. I stand by my claim, that this has the character of a scientific experiment. With the caveat of insufficient sample size. As such, it one part of the scientific process, and, as you mentioned, there is significantly more to it. Nothing as glamorous as experimenting, but often more tedious and just as, if even more important
@@tods_workshop this is the most scientific answer ever, you just made my point, thank you Tod, to see a crafts man doing the testing rather than a white coat is incredibly important, craft matters
The arrows firing at the end there were downright horrifying. I've done combat simulation training before and while I've luckily never been shot at with live ammunition, hearing the whistling and the smacks of impact brought back the memories of being shot at with the simulation ammo. Could feel my blood pressure rising as if I was back in training again. Wonderful video with really quite interesting real life comparisons
Tod's research is so new and intriguing! I never thought about the different sounds different kinds of arrows make, but it really makes sense to ask that question now. He is like a combination of craftsman and professor
The lower speed arrows sounded the same to me; the high speed arrows sounded very different. Can't say I can hear a difference between the types. One thing is clear, if the arrow has that 'buzz' sound, your in trouble. Cool video!
Tod, as a fellow of the bow i have to thank you for your awesome work here. And also I have to share a fun way to make the training routine a step more challenging and a good way to get new ppl into field archery. Take your bow and 1 (+2 spare) arrow, set up a "golf" course with targets - try to hit all targets (from start to one, to two, etc) with your arrow, with the lowest amount of shoots. Setting all "ranges" at different distance and with different Target size... this is real training and a big fun to "play" ;) And just like golf, you can play it safe and shoot just before the target, to finish it of safe with one mor shot, ore risk a long search, if you miss the long range with the first try... Best to play with some friends ;)
Hearing the arrow volley at the end and even imagining the yelling and clangor from a melee battle several meters away brings into perspective how utterly loud and disruptive large scale gunfire would be, and how each successive iteration of cannon and gunfire would be nearly powers greater in volume.
Wonderful film thanks Todd 👍 the sound doesn’t surprise me, it’s that pucker fact knowing an adversary is personally targeting you! Regardless of whether it’s historical projectiles or modern, you get experience from being on the receiving end and knowing what is coming your way and how much you want to avoid it!
Went back and rewatched the shield videos. The arrow whistle is there as well. Loved the combined simulation sounds. Understanding what the sound implies makes it much more hair raising...literally. Reminds me a bit of some Army experiences. Range practice is great but there is no learning substitute like getting shot at.
