It seems that people in the comments are very confused. 1.) Div hasn't been nerfed yet, so the damage right now is neck-and-neck but later in season 19, that gap will start to adjust. 2.) This wont be the "all around best option ever!", there will still be bosses you are better off using div on, same goes with tractor. Conclusion: Divinity will still be a good option, even if the gun had no debuff whatsoever people would most likely still enroll it into their fireteams. However, collective obligation is most likely going to take the cake over certain bosses. In a similar way to how tractor cannon has found a place on bosses like atheon and caretaker, collective obligation will be incredibly strong against bosses that are mostly stationary and don't have steep flinch.
Im glad you brought this up tbh, cause personally - while I own the gun and know what it does - it never occured to me to use it for debuffing instead of divinity or tractor or tether.
Something else to consider is that if you have two collective obligations, paired with something like a bait and switch cataclysmic, the rebuff can be chained indefinitely between the two so you would never need to throw a grenade. Just an idea.
BUT if you were to throw a grenade might as well just have a Taipan (mainly because its void) and pair that with Monochromatic Maestro for even more damage
Tether doesn't work on oryx, but for other bosses, a hunter can also tether, when the tether goes away, throw a nade, when the nade goes away throw a smoke, should be enough debuff uptime for one damage phase
Honestly I think that the div nerf will not be that impactful its just that some bosses that have relatively easy to hit crit spots wont NEED div anymore which is good I think
I hope they’ll adjust damage numbers though since they designed them around div. There’s not many that gives 30% debuff, tractor and tether are the only other ones left
@@snoopyer7 you don’t even need div for any boss tbh, only time a debuff is needed really is a day one raid, other then that you can do everything else without a debuff, a debuff just makes it faster to kill whatever boss and if you need a debuff, you still got a tractor or tether
@@jordywardy2 IMO the massive target divinity gives players is considerably more important than the debuff. I think many teams even outside of day one are still going to want/need divinity so they can have consistent numbers across the additional damage phases. Personally I don't mind doing bosses without divinity but it makes your numbers a lot more consistent
I love how he choose oryx choose a boss with a small crit that moves like crazy like oh idk the boss in duality or even war priest most ppl use it for the enormous crit & the 15% is a very fair trade for easy crits useful asf in GMs too especially cause u don't need a super to do it.
Coming from someone who swears by Collective, love the fact the gun is getting a lot of love and time in the spotlight. Only major gripe I have of course if the fact that everyone still writes it off because “lol bad raid exotic”.
It’s crazy how power crept this was due to the change. As someone who obtained collective on my second run it was fate for me to love this weapon. As a Leadership of the collective obli”gang” this does put a smile on my face.
I think it is only considered "bad" because people don't know to use it properly. It isn't a simple point and shoot gun, you have to manage the buffs, the buff timer, and enemies that have the debuff on them. You can have 100 percent uptime of the perk and essentially have all void buff/debuff up at all times, but it takes actual skill and critical thinking. I initially wrote the weapon off I'll admit, but now that I have been using it, I think it is without a doubt the most engaging and unique weapon in destiny history. No other gun has ever had such dynamic game play with it.
i think the issue with void walker is that I'd rather have another well than a void lock. no jab that people, stupid novabombs just ruin DPS phases. and giving everyone buffs is just infinitely better.
@@Kiwaloayo really depends big time on the fight. For the vast majority of bosses you only need one well, save for warpriest and golgoroth. Lumina can supply a bigger buff so you should have enough dmg anyway. Even with golgy and warpriest you can have a titan sunspot to keep ads away at the least while warlocks off well put dont rift w boots of the assembler. Well is able to be mostly phased put by a variety of things. Only place it is truly needed is content where you absolutely need the survivability. Even then most of the time there are better options unless it is a boss melt. Also is anyone is worried about cataclysm ruining dps, you should be having the void locks run vortex nova
hey man, could you make a "How to" guide? I rarely use collective obligation and with it dealing the same debuff as div I'd love to be able to use it to its fullest extend
"An lfg team would be better off using tractor" You greatly underestimate the ability of LFGs to hit the crit spot of a boss, and with tractor giving a 30% debuff but no massive crit bubble it'll end up being a decrease to overall dps
They're so fuckin out of touch. This is why everyone is upset that their opinions are the only ones listened to. All while.playing on the easiest version of the game.
@@bannedmann4469 bruh they mention the difference it would take with the lfg teams they get like every 2nd video. The man lfgs. Ive lfg'd and they ended up being my fastest runs
@@Cosm1c1 I tend to have pretty good luck with LFGs. People have this weird idea that most LFGs are a nightmare. The main thing that I find funny is people act like the game never existed before Divinity 2 years ago… or that the active player base was higher then. What did people do to complete end game activities in such primitive times?… if the stories are even true that is… And that’s talking like Divinity is even dead. Which it won’t be after the “nerf.” People will forget it had a 30% debuff within a month it losing it.
@@amorfati4927 some lfgs are nightmares and thats why must have x amount of clears are a thing. They generally are the best lfgs to join as well when the clears are high. The bosses were made with div in mind but people in destiny dont realise that balance is a thing and think the "Just don't use it" argument is valid Day ones should be easier with damage checks tho
That's why if you're looking for a good lfg team you look for one that has 15+ clears or however amount you want. If you just join a normal know what to do run you get people with a variety of clears so some may not have the best knowledge and skill for raids
Interesting.. Collective obligation works well with taipan, makes it easier for those who don't have cataclysmic and stormchaser. But what about that artifact mode that weakens distant enemies when you hit multiple precision shots on them.. Would that stack with the void debuffs? Also I am still going to run div in gms because it's easier to eliminate bosses and Champs from a distance when they are debuffed.
The problem is that sundering glare only works at quite high distances, i.e. i'm pretty sure even Oryx is too close. would have to look up probably a list of bosses it's effective against
the damage buff/ debuff difference beween the two is actually quite a bit, it's just that the collective obligation gave you an extra person damaging. still very nice
Div with a 15% debuff will obviously lead to lower total damage. 5X15% leads to around a 75% total increase meaning that you are better off with another person doing dps since Div no longer debuffs to the point where the debuff damage covers for another person. Of course for bosses that move a lot or have really annoying crit spots (Rhulk, Atheon, maybe Taniks), Div almost guaranteeing damage is probably still a wonderful choice.
I love how he choose oryx choose a boss with a small crit that moves like crazy like oh idk the boss in duality or even war priest most ppl use it for the enormous crit & the 15% is a very fair trade for easy crits useful asf in GMs too especially cause u don't need a super to do it.
In theory, div post-nerf should do less damage than just the whole fireteam shooting heavy. If one player does 1k damage, then 6 players: 6k 5 players + div (30%): 6k * 1.3 = 6.5k 5 players + div post-nerf (15%): 6k * 1.15 = 5.75k So now it's selling point is the bubble, and it becomes a choice between making sure you get those 5.75k or potentially going for the 6.5k with things like tractor cannon. If the nerf was to 20% instead, it would keep the 6k but grant the critspot, so that would have been good to.
This is already better before the div nerf. With div it's 5 people doing damage with a 30% debuff; 130%. With void grenades, Child of the old gods, and collective obligation it's very easy to always have void weakening on a boss which is 15%. But you can then have 6 people doing 115% damage (1.15 times damage). This equates to 6*115% = 690%. Whereas div is only 5 people doing damage, 5*130% = 650%. 40% more damage without div pre-nerf. And that's not accounting for tether which is 30%. So 6*130% versus div's current 5*130%. If the problem is that the crit spot of div is necessary in some encounters, then the encounter was probably designed with div in mind. Which indicates not a problem with div, but a problem with the underlying encounters. If something is designed to make div necessary, then div doesn't need a nerf, the encounter needs a rework, otherwise the underlying issue will remain, but now we don't have our band-aid fix for it.
This is a great option for bosses like oryx with huge ass crit spot. And bosses like warpriest I'll still use divinity. A great nerf, divinity is still a good option but not THE option.
@@TJskillz169 If you use mobius quiver you can pace the tethers, and maybe even a third time with Orpheus. I’ve only seen sweatcicle do it but maybe it’ll become more popular
@@Promisent surprisingly incorrect . with radiant and star eaters goldie still does less even in 3 shots compared to blade barrage. This has already been well documented since solar 3.0
can you try a x5 lucent lament + tractor golgoroth? step in then out of pool, 2-1 combo, repeat. i did this on an arc titan with amplified cuirass-crash and storm nade and got a consistent 5-6mil damage, yet nobody is taking my word its as good as it is. this is also without getting unstable light a single time or getting gaze.
@@exactly14ever Yes. That's my point. It's a great replacement for bosses that stand still and have big crit boxes. But that's like...6 bosses in the current raids (Oryx, Templar, Golgoroth, Sanctified mind, Morgeth, Riven)
@@alexisvargar8957 I never said bosses were a problem without Div. Im trying to say its not a 1 for 1 replacement on most bosses, like the video says for Oryx
@@randomguys2, I mean, it is... Destiny 2 have 15 bosses in raids, only 2 of them requires div because their crit spot is hard but not for the debuff so not a big deal
It is however what this is showcasing is you can use CO and heavy with the same debuff div applies making a 15% debuff with 6 people shooting instead of 5 people shooting
My prediction for the next season if this ends up being a div replacement: "Collective Obligation has become a must pick for endgame and needs to be nerfed so we can use different tools instead of relying on the same boring thing." - Some streamer Bungie: We've been looking at Collective Obligation and decided it's too meta, we're removing the guns exotic perk in hopes to alleviate this crippling game breaking issue.
I think divinity will still be the number 1 choice for debuffing because of the crits, its literally impossible to consistently crit on rhulk or taniks
I was going for helmet and glaive ended up getting this thing, tried it for a while and my only complaint was the cool down, in the heat of things it’s really hard to pay attention, so it was dismantled to join the trash, I might give if a try now, I hope it follows Vex example of a come back from trash to OP.
@@LordTonzilla Yes, that's why I am going to dust it up and try again, I was talking about when I tried it in the past that's what I didn't like about it, I'll give it a try.
I love how he choose oryx choose a boss with a small crit that moves like crazy like oh idk the boss in duality or even war priest most ppl use it for the enormous crit & the 15% is a very fair trade for easy crits useful asf in GMs too especially cause u don't need a super to do it.
they can take away the damage buff all they want, I've switched to lumina anyway since it is just flat out better for damage (unless the crit is tiny af or hard to hit)
Please, I've been asking online and got no answer anywhere yet: Can Collective Obligation leach a 30% weaken debuff to reuse at 30%??? Or does it automatically turn a 30% weaken debuff into a 15% weaken debuff when leached?? Or is it not able to leach a 30% weaken debuff at all?? No one talks about 15% weakens vs 30% weakens when it comes to Collective Obligation, they just say "it leaches weaken" and that's the extent of it. I believe it does leach the 30% weaken because I've seen the ball for weaken fill up in the optic when shot at targets affected by tether, but I don't know if the weaken it stores after leaching stays at 30% or if it turns into 15% automatically.
@@LordTonzilla I just saw a debuff graphic somebody made today and that's the impression I was getting from the way he made the chart. He listed Collected Obligation in the 15% weaken category. Thanks for the response though.
After div gets nerfed I’m finished with destiny. It’s just a vicious cycle of being given new guns only for them to get nerfed to the ground and be rendered useless. Divinity was created for ONE use and now they are taking that away. TOM got nerfed to the ground, exotics being disabled. There’s just no reason for me to continue playing if I can’t obtain anything useful that hasn’t been nerfed to paste. It’s been a fun 8 or so years.
Dude, div needed a small change. Its still usable and you probably won't notice a difference on most fights, if you really want to you could just use tractor for that 30% instead. That's just how games work, stuff is overpowered so they need a nerf and something else becomes meta, happens in every shooter game, mmorpg, etc. Change happens, adapt to it
Get your master Kingsfall done now, not going to be fun with nerfs next season, collective obligation uses your energy slot, same encounter on master has arc shields & overloads, collective obligation would useless on master
You don't need the whole team running that weapon, only like one person and just rely on your teammates to break the arc shields and stun the overloads, you can just have the floaters run point of the stag or another arc bow to cover both
Sorry Im stupid and dont have Collective Obligation. Can someone explain whats happening here? It looks like he just shoots the boss at the start to apply the debuff, but what's the difference from just using grenades + no CO? What am I missing about this that makes it special? Not trolling
Nades wont recharge fast enough to keep the buff applied. So applying 2x with CO plus 1 nade is a long enough debuff to basically cover it. He jsut bad at throwing nades
A bit unrelated to the vid but i just wanted to mention that bungie said they dont want to powercreep tether and tractor past div. They dont want to fucking """"powercreep"""" a whole ass super past a dumb fucking easy to get special weapon???????
Thats pointless. Remove the gun from the game then, nerfing it below 20% is stupid as shit. Just drop it use lumina tether now and you are doing more damage then div with 5😂
If for some people using divinity makes game to easy, there is one solution- just dont use it...I never was using div on Oryx... there are other bosses which makes easier to shoot with div on...
This Is brilliant, some bosses div are better because of harder weakspot to hit and some bosses other weakens are better. This Is how It should have been from the start ( div hasn't been nerfed yet so It'll be huge later on ), gonna be so nice to see tractor and obligation etc being used more.
I'm not sure cataclysmic will do more damage than this, considering they're using font of might, and they need the void subclass for the debuff. For other players in the team tho, absolutely
Honestly this is really cool. With Lumina being the highest buff and other weapons having some room for debuff, the fireteam weapon meta might actually be different roles rather than copy-paste. As shown by decades of MMOs, having unique roles in a boss fight makes them more engaging. Its refreshing to see something other than Divinity
