Who REALLY Created the Lich King? - Shadowlands Spoilers 

Some of my speculations based on the new, spoiler alert, lore that we've learned. Who do you guys think is really behind his creation. Vote on the community tab poll.

Sylvanas hates Arthas for her destiny and wanted vengeance, Arthas was an agent of the Maw, Sylvanas now serves as an agent of the Maw... ironic

It begin to sounds like Naruto plot, vilain being manipulated by darker vilain then darker vilain being manipulated by darker darker vilain annnnd darker darker vilain being manipulated by darker darker darker vilain.

I really want Kil’jaeden to be part of this history being more than a pawn since he is the Deceiver, he was already displesead with Sargeras when we faced him.

Now...the next question...when will the fanbase realise...they are pawns...

If The Lich King is a creation of the Jailer, then why did he have Sylvanas destroy the helm of domination ? If the Helm of Domination was the key to breaking through the worlds, to the shadowlands, why did he create it and not have it destroyed to begin with? This is very confusing, as someone who doesn't play and barely follows lore lol.

Blizzard changing the story of the lich king just shows us how creatively bunkrupt they are

Wait until they introduce the real reason player characters never die and spirit walk back to their bodies to ressurect ;p

Oh my god! It's the next "true villain"! I wonder where they will go next... create a new more ancient creature that orchestrated the enslavement of Jailer to make him bitter? Let's call that next creature "Asspullzadon".

5 minute video for such simple question. Lich king made by Chris Metzen.

I hope the jailer manifests himself on Azeroth and that’s how 9.3 ends is we getting back to Azeroth to stop him

the music, in the beginning, was pretty epic and daunting. it really made me feel like i was bamboozled and how the lich king was powerful

Next expansion: The Jailer was a pawn

Kida video, samo nastavi brate!

it's a cool thought but the whole TFT campaign was about how KJ wanted to kill Lich King. So it contradicts very much with this theory

If you got back to warcraft 3 with the context of the new lore, the nathrezim clearly make themselves out to be some greater threat. It was implied to be the legion,but maybe blizz had always intended there to be SOME twist, but only now are they fleshing it out. Theyre relationship with Sylvanas also foreshadows her allegiance to The Jailor a bot as well in my opinion. The quotes are subtle, but still kinda fit with the new warcraft narrative.

I do think that this is what the current plan is. It makes sense considering how the Shadowlands is for all mortals. So any world the Legion takes over and kills anyone that resists just adds to the souls entering the realm. And adds to the potential of allies he can amass.

How ironic for the deceiver to be deceived by his own servants

Nice video doron shadowlands looks really good and lore seems nice

No matter Who create the Lich King, he is Ner'zull Who never worked whit them. And he gave an order to Kell'thuzard to become lord of shadowlands, in the same time he Will get controll over the twisting Nether and together they Will rule for ever...

So the Jailer created the Lich King, and the Lich King killed and resurected Sylvanas as a banshee. She hates Arthas for this, so it doesnt make sense to me the alliance between her and the Jailer (who, de facto, is at fault for her situation)

This reminds me that when we defeated the Lich King, Sylvanas was waiting in hiding hoping to snatch the crown and that becoming chieftain and starting an all out war was actually her plan B! The writing for this expansion seems to be insanely good!

They need a button to like all videos ever posted on a channel...cause I don’t even gotta watch it before I know a Doron vid is 10/10

there's so many things wrong with this theory of yours. kil'jaeden carries the title "the deceiver" he will hardly be manipulated by some lesser demons like dread lords. kil'jaeden created the lich king using ner'zul's soul, the armor and sword might have been created by the nathrezim, but the set of armor and that sword was more of a hilt on a sword while ner'zul (later Arthas) was the blade attached to that hilt. the nathrezim, while being mysterious beings, are not greater demons, they are more like lieutenants and captains under the command of actual greater demons, like Mannoroth for example, and the fact Tichondrius was made a fool by Illidan shows as much.. this conniving sniveling trickster was shown to be one of the most incompetent idiots the second the legion gave him real power of command, as was those other three dread lords that were put in charge of the plaguelands; Detheroc, Balnazzar and Varimathras whom were beaten intellectually by a dead elf, not to mention Mal'ganis who were outwitted by, at that time, a simpleton named Arthas who literally walked into every trap laid out before him despite being warned that he was walking into a trap at least once. even Medivh told Arthas not to be an idiot, and like the idiot Arthas is, he ignored him. also i was never a fan of retcons, and there is no god damn way in hell that blizzard planned this 20 years ago when warcraft 3 was released, which makes your theory (if true) a complete retcon. aka a diverging of the original story... that's like saying "Thrall was never actually just a remarkably gifted shaman, no no no, he was actually just uhm... blessed by uhhh Ragnaros, yes, lets go with Ragnaros". they are pulling this crap out of their asses, which would explain why the new 'azerite' resource is called "Enema"

If your speculation is correct, someone in the writer's room literally pitched Writer: "Hey. What if the lich king was the avatar of Sargeras?" Other writer: "Literally?" Writer: "No, but yes."

I want Arthas back, no matter the cost. By these logics, Arthas had no fault; since being manipulated by the most powerful entity to become is champion, I also think that there was no such thing as Nerzhul in the Frozen Throne , and might have been Jailer all along (disgused as Nerzhul) calling to Arthas in Warcraft 3 and then merging.

Its so annoying when Blizz keep changing old lore.

I think that simply underplay kil jeadan to be honest. He was the terrifying near omnipotent force nobody could do anything about. If anything he's major responsible for a majority of whats going in azeroth right now. I like to believe he sinply had his way with it and let it fall out of his hands

It is CLEARLY sayd that kil jaiden created the armor set of lich king and deadlords created frostmourne for the champion of lich king(now for sure the armor set was also created by the hands of dreadlords but kil jaiden ordered it infact there is no clue who actually was the blacksmith of sword and armor) still there is no real point of asking this Q helm and sword might be created by jailor(might be dont get it wrong we still dont know the truth) but the NERZHUL/LICH KING was a CREATION of kil jaiden whatever happens to the lore this scentance has always stayed the same kil jaiden made nerzhul what he is

The Jailor is like Satan. He did something wrong and was ruthlessly punished for eternity. Now he is just trying to free himself and all of us from being victims of this machine of death created to feed Shadowlands creatures.

I love your videos

You say this wasn't preplanned since wrath but from alotta accounts from characters like uther reference that arthus is only a personality in the helm and by uthers words a fading one, so they must have had some plan about this

So many plot twists. Like replaying wc3 to catch stuff. Tichondrius stating the lich king crafted frost mourne, really got me dwelling.

What if the lich king is behind the lich king? 😱

it has been noted that the Forsworn are with the Jailer and the Maw... why would the Forsworn from Bastion reject the path but then follow the Jailer which is an even greater aberration; wouldn't it make more sense to have their own third faction essentially fighting both sides? unless that does happen further into the story

Great video. I always love to hear your perspective on the lore

Foolish. EVERYONE is a pawn, including the Jailer. You really think the buck ends there? This is WoW! Turtles all the way down.

we know that frost mourne and lich king's armor was made on the shadowlands i and it's purpose was to weaken the force of azzeroth how did he do that by killing them actually he made jailer more strond my making azeroth weaker so i believe legion and jailor could have been secret partners

KilJaden made Ner zhul the lich king. "Created" is being like Kil jaden controlled ner zhul, false. Ner zhul was free, so free he could trick arthas as his own agent to break free and betray Kil jaden by doing so. Who created the armor, power etc is legends and it was said the nathrezim did or know the ones who forged it, they used it and its powers for their spiel to cause destruction and death. The old lore still fits perfectly i this case. Who tought the nathrezim or other races were always deamon is a fool cause it contradicts the direct game lore, then and now.

The legion is a joke at this point.

Will be sylvannas a minion of the jailer. Or she might be like illidan on tbc expansion. Who we suspected against azeroth but she really want all to be free

i have my own plot line here...I think the Jailer is a Nathrezim (we never saw one not affected by fel) but he is not controlling his race, maybe he was betrayed by his kind (was sended to the maw by "The Primus" and his kind left him there) and because of that he is trying to destroy their plans to take over everything and with the help os Sylvanas "free us all"

Dude keep it up man your info are spot on man

Eh, I really don't believe Sargeras was actually duped into creating the Scourge by the Jailer and his forces. I mean, this is Sargeras we're talking about; the most powerful of the Titans and a tactical genius. I'm pretty sure Sargeras KNEW the Dreadlords were bullshitting him and could see through their agenda, but he played along anyway and worked with them (and the Jailer) because Sargeras was just that damn desperate to stop the Void. I think both the Jailer and Sargeras knew and distrusted each other, but forged a temporary alliance for the purpose of "saving" the universe from the Void. It's like if roaches infested your house, and you become so desperate to stop them that you hire the seediest, slimiest, most dishonest exterminator you know of out of desperation. You KNOW this guy is full of it, and you KNOW he'll screw you over with a massive bill after it's all said and done, but you hire him anyway, because the roaches are worse.

All this retconning is undoing a lot of what made the legion threatening and significant. Now since their expansion is over they are suddenly entirely unimportant and greater characters like Kil'Jaeden is a pawn? Boring and disappointing

Wow, Blizzard just retrofitting decades old lore lol

tbh it should have been obvious.The Lich King has power of you know.. the dead

What's the difference between the Undead on Azeroth, on the mortal plain, and the Undead/dead in the Shadowlands... I'm curious as well with Maldraxus; the Shadowlands has a stream of souls coming in, but not "bodies" with all their constructs, it's cool and all, but does it make sense?

We know the leader of revendreth struck a deal with the jailer. We know the leader of revendreth was once a dreadlord himself, and likely oversees the initiation and orders given to dreadlords. It stands to reason then that the part of the bargain between revendreth and the jailer would be to have the dreadlords facilitate the removal of the helm of domination and frostmourne to be used on Azeroth to eventually break the veil between the two places.

Kiljaeden the master of deceit a pawn? I don't think so, just bs relore twist

Actually Kil'Jaeden was a prawn

I know the jailer is supposed to be the Hades figure, so I am guessing the Maw has someone like a devil figure in thier some how?

Would you mind waiting a few moments after saying spoiler alert until the spoilers come? You get really caught off guard and don't have time to react until its too late hehe

That’s my problem with this expansion it retcons nerzhul story with arthas so are the old gods pawns of the jailer as well ??

A little hitch in this conspiracy: why did the Ner'zhul have Arthas kill Mal'ganis, or secretly work against Tichondrius? Why would Varimathras betray Sylvanas?

There must always be a Lich --- , I mean , Jailer .

Super EKSTRA video, samo nemoj koristiti insert scene iz Reforged!Warcraft 3. Kalimdor before the Third War

I'm somewhat for the continuation of puppets behind puppets until the end of time when we're caught in a mess of marionette strings and plot inconsistencies... what makes less sense, is the player, as the adventurer and hero, is forever chopping at the feet of whatever giant enemy they come up against... the void lords or whatever will eventually show themselves, and we'll be chopping at their gaseous ankles as well...

Plot twist: He was mistaken for an agent of the Maw

I always saw Sargeras as the big baddie like Thanos or Galactus is to Marvel. But the Jailor and the Maw storyline is throwing me off a bit. I love it how WoW is evolving and just recycling old character stories.

I dont like the lore so far, its not actually new lore, its just lore rewamp

The jailer receives his powers through mortals dying and taking their souls? Why would he create something that would negate him receiving more power? The Dreadlords are masters of spreading Chaos. By creating the Lich King he was the embodiment of Chaos. He defied his master (Kil"jaeden), he defies what the Jailer stands for (stealing souls from him and trapping them in Frostmourne). I believe the Jailer is going to end up being the world soul that Sargeras killed when he thought it was IBAR (Infected Beyond Any Repair). The Jailer was so angry with the Titans for this and became death itself being born from death. The Titans being all about order the Jailer set out to spread disorder behind the shadows. He found the perfect allies in the Dread lords since they also love to spread chaos and disorder.

It's sad how did they downgrade KJ that badly, just to make some new villain The most cunning and intelligent villain of wow reduced to a fool

dreadlords aka master doubleagents

Super video :)

'There must always be a lichking' lol nope.

Only 2 minutes in but this sounds like some Aizen or Dark Zetsu level asspull.

Kil'jaeden made the lich

Wait, that’s what the Dreadlord leaves have been?! That’s insane!

Did kil'jaeden know about the existence of the jailer or even shadowlands?

Pilav is this you?

These ppl will never stop......leave tf lore alone Blizz. FFS

if this is true then i want to see the face of sylvanas when she learns that she was being played all along

So.....the new villain is the Lich God?

Spoiler alert: Blizzard created the Lich King :)

Blizzard did

So, basically the Legion, one of the greatest enemies in Warcraft III are a bunch of pussies, which kinda makes Warcraft III useless. Well done Activision for pissing again on the old games of Blizzard(!) I mean, the Maw using the dreadlords as agents is a direct retcon since they were really oblivious of Kel'Thuzad machinations in Warcraft III.

This is a lot of speculation, without any evidence. I'd say Blizzard is just RETCONING because they want to keep their mmo going.

blizzard. Anticlimactic I know

I gave you a like because of your accent!

"yup they still buying... keep pumping this nonsense. let the money flow." Some Blizzard Lord.

Why Jailor who created Lich King wanted to destroy him? Lich King become more powerful than Jailor? :/

So , who created the lich king ?

I have a really random thought. You know how the warcraft live action movie i believe wasn't loved. I wonder if making a world of Warcraft anime would work. Looking at all the action animes out there i don't see why not. It's just a really interesting idea. Who wants an anime sylvanias vs her sisters? Meee :D

now do a video where you only say " jailor " for 2 hours, you do have a unique way of saying it.

who created the lich king? obviously not bitch boy Arthas Menethil. It's all fucking The Elder Shaman Ner'Zhul. why Ner'zhul? because he is just a fucking badass.

the legion was scared of the lich king/ arthas because the he became so powerful beyond their belief

4:37 Damn that Valkyrie thiccc

The Lore died after "wrath of the lich king" it would have been best if they stoped the wow in the 2008 and start working on a single-player RPGs like Skyrim in different timelines and different lands. With canonized lore until 2008.

Fucking retcons...

Now explain it again.....slowly and in understandable ENGLISH. Not this Welsh waterfall of words. geez.....

Ehhh, this stupid theories...

Damn, you are still talking about World of Warcraft shit? Haven't you found yourself a boyfriend? I swear, I hope I can create a lengthy blog about how Sargeras is a death titan and how warlocks are necromancers and actually get paid for it.