Who's to blame for England's sewage crisis? | Economics | The New Statesman

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Our waterways are overflowing with sewage. Why? As ever: follow the money.
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A record amount of sewage is being discharged into rivers and seas around England. A new report revealed that in 2023 private water companies discharged raw sewage for more than 3.6 million hours - a 105% increase on the previous 12 months.
At the same time, Thames Water, Britain’s biggest water company, is at risk of insolvency.
Anoosh Chakelian is joined on the New Statesman podcast by Will Dunn and Rachel Cunliffe to explore the economic and political reasons behind this "sh*tstorm".
Read Will's piece: Who killed Thames Water? www.newstatesman.com/business...
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Опубликовано:

3 апр 2024

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Комментарии : 824

@daraorourke5798 Месяц назад

Water is a natural monopoly. Let them go bust. Renationalise.

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

This is an important point. Natural Monopolies ought to be more widely understood. Some infrastructure (like fibre optic cables) can reasonably have many private providers operating in parallel. But you can't have multiple sewers or roads operating in parallel. So these things should be nationalized.

@liaminwales Месяц назад

@@andybrice2711 With internet openreach owns the network and company's pay to use it then set prices for the public, it's closer to the Train system where the tracks and trains are not run by the same people. There are still outlines with internet that own there own network like Virgin etc

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

@@liaminwales As I understand it: In most cases, Openreach owns the "last mile" physical connection. But numerous companies can rent space in the exchange for their network gear, and have those lines connected to it. It's not like the "virtual" providers of electricity and gas. They do physically switch over the connection. And I think there are also various arrangements whereby different companies pay to run cables through the same conduit.

@liaminwales Месяц назад

@@andybrice2711 Ah it's much more complex then, thanks for explaining.

@biocapsule7311 Месяц назад

@@andybrice2711 Actually no, network and cable companies works have the same problems as Water and even like Healthcare in US. Even if you have several private companies in 'nation' wide, the 'market' for many regions, smaller rural areas are not big enough to sustain even 1 company, let alone 2, so you often see for example, insurance company in US craving up territories where only 1 or at most 2 company operates, most towns and county end up only ever get one. When it comes to cable and networks, there can be only so much infrastructures and *administration cost* alone is not 'cost efficient' for multiple company to share the 'markets' of small towns and county across such a vast land such as the US. It's the same reason. Even in Urbans areas, there is an upper limit as to how many private company of the same kind can be sustain. It's not just infrastructure alone but also the many sets of different administration, without even going into profit motive. It's one of the reasons why the EU single-market is so cost efficient in terms of borders. Instead of 28x28+ times of border administrations, you have 1 very big intertwining legal framework.

@timbonner8707 Месяц назад

Margret Thathcher is to blame. Water should have never been privatised. The reason wasn't to save the government money, it was so a few people could make money.

@SkeletonDrums1 Месяц назад

Along with power & "public" transport. They sold all of OUR utilities and services which was idiotic and massively damaging. Thatcher is a villain who should go down in history as such!

@captaintorch983 Месяц назад

@@SkeletonDrums1 Yes, if only we could bring back British Railways, with their slow, dirty, empty trains. For years the envy of Europe. Not to mention those coal fired power stations. Sheer palaces of delight. with their lovely chimneys. We were also lucky to have loyal trades union leaders, to ensure maximum productivity whether it be coal, steel or motor cars. That Thatcher woman has a lot to answer for. Thank god for good old Labour!

@SkeletonDrums1 Месяц назад

@@captaintorch983 Fruitcake

@ianandrews6890 Месяц назад

I can remember what infrastructure was like before the "Thatcher" reforms. It was much worse than what is complained of today . Everywhere you looked , the country was dirty and dangerous. Tony Blair's New Labour didn't try to renationalise during 14 years in which Britain could have easily afforded to do so . Sewer system maintenance is an expenditure which is too easy for everyone to defer. That's why it needs honest regulation and maximum transparency to ensure it stays honest . The ultimate failure backstop is the voters . If they refuse to pay even when given an honest accounting - it's on them.

@stevecoppin6396 Месяц назад

@@captaintorch983 that is not a valid argument , lots of things were worse in the 70s but technology has improved things , not incumbent governments

@christopherhobson247 Месяц назад

I worked in sewage treatment for Wessex Water for 15 years. Things gradually became worse, to such a degree, that I decided to retire early. Managers hiding away in offices, continually in meetings, answering e-mails. Reduced capacity for tankering waste from treatment works to sludge reception centres. Waste, therefore, remaining on sites for much longer and possibility of carry over through site and out into river courses during storm conditions. One long standing manager was put on gardening leave for highlighting a lack of investment. He later left the company, to be replaced by a yes man. Too many yes managers now.

@andrewthomas695 Месяц назад

Sounds like the Post Office. The English culture loves a yes man. Leadership is dead.

@Arltratlo Месяц назад

you cant expect to have managers who are not like Tories....lying is in their blood!

@christopherhobson247 Месяц назад

@@Arltratlo 🤔

@odette8905 Месяц назад

Sad to hear. So many big corporations following suit.

@christopherhobson247 Месяц назад

@@odette8905 indeed, it's seems like there is a countrywide lack of duty, ability, professionalism and training. A lot of people shouting and moaning, not many actually trying to tackle the issues. I actually have 7 more years until I receive state pension. I would go back to help and get these sewage works back to compliance, if I knew that the bosses would help too. But that ain't gonna happen.

@prideofdurham4776 Месяц назад

Do not forget in 2021 MPs VOTED to allow companies to dump raw sewage into our waterways , Tory MPs mainly but some Labour.

@Draggonny Месяц назад

Not supporting that decision at all but they allowed sewage dumping under specific circumstances and the water companies broke the new, more lenient regulations. They gave them an inch and they took a mile.

@giolag5593 Месяц назад

Guess who we have and are paying monthly for "sewage treatment"..the companies. This was no accident it was designed to end up this way and they were doing it before they were allowed to

@lonegroover Месяц назад

Yes, to prevent sewage from flowing into people's houses.

@danielblackwell4361 Месяц назад

Absolutely not true labour MPs DID NOT vote to allow this!

@pinxtownington4645 Месяц назад

Tory/ labour comes from cease pool of Oxford/ Cambridge elites

@RH1812 Месяц назад

1. The government who sold them off. 2. The companies for not dealing with the problems. 3. The government for not applying fines

@MrGavinBoyd Месяц назад

Fines are just a business expense. NOTHING will change until directors face prison with personal assets seized.

@buzzukfiftythree Месяц назад

@@MrGavinBoydAbsolutely - well said!

@adam7802 Месяц назад

No big business cares about fines. It's a slap on the wrist.

@liaminwales Месяц назад

@@MrGavinBoyd Directors will be figureheads, it's the investors and parent company's that need to be motivated.

@sinistregoth Месяц назад

The electorate for repeatedly electing Government's who sell off public services

@jaylondon8354 Месяц назад

The government is to blame . How can Thames Water give millions in dividend n yet complain they need more funding

@michaelcoward1902 Месяц назад

Because it's not a crisis it's a robbery.

@asdreww Месяц назад

They don;t give much dividends at all. Infact I don't think they've paid any since 2017 or so?

@pholdway5801 Месяц назад

Very wrong butI have the answer Declare a no dividend decade Our Government buys them at the price they are prepared to pay as they drop .Share price withers. They go tits up and give up Our water is ours again

@ritaarmitage2055 Месяц назад

Corperate ideologies are to blame

@aaronhoy3410 Месяц назад

@@asdreww They say they haven't paid any dividends to "external shareholders" since 2017. However, that does not mean they haven't paid any dividends. In fact in an article from The Guardian on December 5, 2023 it says: "Announcing half-year results on Tuesday, Thames Water said it had paid £37.5m dividend from its operating company - which is regulated - that ultimately reached a holding company. Thames said the money was used to service 'external debt obligations' of the holding company & 1 of its subsidiaries." In another article from The Telegraph on March 24, 2024 it said that in the year [fiscal year for the company,] at the end of March 2023 it paid about £45m in dividends & the previous 2 years combined it paid £53.9m. The last 4 years combined they also paid out over £10.6m in total executive pay. Then in another article from The Independent on March 28, 2024 it mentions how between 2010 & 2014 they paid out £1.3bn in dividends to shareholders with the total in shareholder dividends during the decade Macquarie owned it paying out a total £2.7bn in dividends. So what is that £2.7bn in dividends between 2006 & 2016, then in fiscal years 2023, 2022, 2021, & the first half of 2024 they paid a total £136.4m in dividends. Then yet another article from the BBC on March 28, 2024 mentions: "Thames Water said that it has not paid dividends to external shareholders since 2017. However, dividends can also be used to move money around companies that are ultimately owned by one parent company. Thames Water has paid over £200m in dividends to other companies within the group in the past five years."

@katrinabryce Месяц назад

Imagine if the punishment for shoplifting was a fine of 0.1% of the value of goods stolen. That wouldn't be much of a deterrent. People would just steal what they want, and plead guilty and pay the fine when challenged. That seems to me like what the regulatory regime for water companies is like at the moment. They take money from us for sewage charges, then illegally dump the sewage instead of treating it properly. People who do that with other types of waste get arrested and jailed, and proceeds of crime legislation is used to seize all their assets. We need to be doing the same with the water companies. As for the pension firms involved, the two British pension funds are the University Superannuation Scheme and the BT Pension Fund. Both have government guarantees anyway, so they would just claim on that guarantee like they have done on many occasions. It is up to the governments in Ontario / China / etc to decide what needs to be done with respect to the pension funds in those countries / provinces.

@janlesinski4719 Месяц назад

Shop lifting now does not carry any punishment they are let go

@bryansmith1920 Месяц назад

My I recommend your intellect to my friends please

@katrinabryce Месяц назад

@@janlesinski4719 Most of the time, yes, which is why shoplifting has gone through the roof.

@thejesusaurus6573 Месяц назад

you understand that you don't get to keep your ill gotten gains right? the fine would be small and its not much of a deterrant, but you wouldnt get to keep the stuff you stole....

@katrinabryce Месяц назад

@@thejesusaurus6573 In my scenario, you do get to keep the stuff you stole. Just like the water companies get to keep the money they saved by not treating the sewage properly.

@nicks4934 Месяц назад

£72billion paid out. Where did it go?

@robupsidedown Месяц назад

Exactly where it was intended to go. The point of privatisation is profit.

@q2breath Месяц назад

SHORT ARMS AND MUCHH TOO DEEP POCKETS!!! Only monsters would do this.

@rolinti9146 Месяц назад

shareholder dividends

@PMMagro Месяц назад

Probably not to taxpayers :)

@matt69nice Месяц назад

Important to say that a lot of it went into people's pensions. Unfortunately, people are going to have to choose between a) having the value of their pension pot take a hit; and b) having terrible services.

@jeremydavies1813 Месяц назад

The words, “bleeding obvious” spring to mind! You don’t need anything other than a degree in common sense to predict this was where opportunistic greed would lead. Astonishing!

@julianshepherd2038 Месяц назад

Scottish Water has problems but no wherre near England's We didn't privatise Its like living in a different country

@julianshepherd2038 Месяц назад

I'm sure the Scottish tax payer will be happy to pay their share😂

@nicks4934 Месяц назад

Scotland is way ahead on many things. ❤

@nbah5969 Месяц назад

@@julianshepherd2038probably, I imagine Scottish people are feeling just fine, comparing it to fat cats just skimming 50% of income whilst not reinvesting and laughing at the customer

@Trying_trying Месяц назад

Cheaper to dump and pay the share holders more.

@bm8641 Месяц назад

Scotland IS a different country.

@garyisok1 Месяц назад

i was shocked the "regulators", the "watchdog", have written into their contracts that they MUST protect profits for the private companies....

@pholdway5801 Месяц назад

If they AREN'T making a profit then they shouldn't pay a dividend

@TheUnomosh Месяц назад

I wonder if a more proactive government could litigate Macquarie for their behaviour - they have extracted profits by creating a public health hazard.

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

Wouldn't the simplest solution just be to charge water companies per tonne of sewage they dump? That way they have a direct financial incentive to invest in infrastructure rather than paying out dividends.

@jazzx251 Месяц назад

And how would you measure that? Their defence lawyer would ask for scientifically exact quantities.. not "the river around the sewage plant looks roughly 20% browner than it did at the same time last year ..." Even if a scientist would work for free, and take a sample of the water ... "That could be anything! - There's loads of gypsies and yobbos taking a dump in the water every Saturday, we've noticed ..." Feeble - but the burden of proof is on the prosecution

@MrGavinBoyd Месяц назад

The Observer: Two-thirds of England’s biggest water companies employ key executives who had previously worked at the watchdog tasked with regulating them, the Observer can reveal. Cathryn Ross, the new interim joint chief executive of Thames Water and a former head of watchdog Ofwat, is one of several ex-employees working for water companies in senior roles such as strategy, regulation and infrastructure. An analysis by the Observer has found 27 former Ofwat directors, managers and consultants working in the industry they helped to regulate, with about half in senior posts. The findings have raised fresh concerns over a revolving door between the regulator and the industry. “There is a merry-go-round between the core regulators and the regulated utilities,” said Sir Dieter Helm, a former government adviser and professor of economic policy at Oxford University. “Regulators are not paid very well, and if there is the potential of future jobs in the firms they regulate, it creates potential conflicts of interest.” How is this even legal? FFS 😱

@joso7228 Месяц назад

And what are the moral standards of these slimy '27 former Ofwat Directors'?

@briansteele2723 Месяц назад

It probably works in the same way at energy / fossil fuel companies.

@stevec6427 Месяц назад

All the current offwat directors have also worked as directors for water companies

@quasi19812002 Месяц назад

When Liz Truss signed off on the Thames Supersewer she said she was sure the business knew what they were doing. The aussie bank that then cashed out surely did.

@pholdway5801 Месяц назад

that same Aussie bank is also coining it with carbon trading. An idea formulated by green charities and passed on in the e mail debacle of the Universities that push the warming scares

@matthewwiddows6319 Месяц назад

if its costs you 10x to treat the sewage, and the fine to discharge it is x then what business wouldn't do that!!!!

@MonkeyWhoWouldBeKing Месяц назад

why cant the (presumably labour) govt not launch a new company and give the contract to it when Thames Water fails, (buying up assets in the fire sale), but letting the private sector absorb the costs?

@robupsidedown Месяц назад

But then someone's ROI would be threatened, can't have that.

@MonkeyWhoWouldBeKing Месяц назад

@@stephjsinclair but that's different plan. that still involves making shareholders whole (expensive, even in a fire sale).

@jncg2311 Месяц назад

I work on the edge of the wastewater treatment industry and see the problems every week. It goes back to lack of investment, always. Why spend money on preventative maintenance? It's not broken is it? Oh it is broken? Can we carry on operating somehow without fixing it anyway? Why invest to make the infrastructure more resilient? It's not mandatory or profitable is it? Why worry about improving performance or efficiency? It's not rewarded is it? Walking onto a site on days when it's not even raining rain and seeing raw effluent flowing straight to the storm water outfall is ridiculous, and then seeing why it's happening and how preventable it often is makes me very angry. Every time.

@keithheaven176 Месяц назад

It appears that water companies are cynically creating the need for renationalisation: they are wilfully aggravating the problem by diverting profits away from deliberately neglected infrastructure and rewarding shareholders. They know that nationalisation will be rewarded with compensation. Shareholders also understand this, which is why they have maintained their investments despite knowing what damage the companies were doing. I believe compensation should be reduced by the cost of repairing the infrastructure: indeed, compensation should be reclaimed from all who so clearly gamed the system at the expense of the taxpayer.

@kloffus3 Месяц назад

Well done. I agree if compensation is paid to sharholders when the company is renationalised the cost of repair etc, should be deducted . really McQuarrie were simply ripping off the English a ( criminal???) abuse of poorly regulated monopoly power., I would like to literally conficate the whole water comapany and ALSO demand that the shareholders pay for the repairs. It really outrages me that the companies have the bearfaced cheek to say they will force us to pay with 40% increased charges. WE HAVE ALREADY PAID but they gave the money away when they ought to have used it to maintain and up-date the infrastructure. WE HAVE ALREADY PAID. I repeat. so they must now give that money back so a new company or a nationlised company can at last do the work the existing companies have failed to do. But I suppose that kind of JUSTICE would be outside the existing provisions of the law. Do you wonder that people are so cynical these days in Rip-off Tory Britain. Tory Britain . because 1. Thatcher did the privatisation 2. this government has used the issue ( and many others too which they have failed to deal with - -possibly distracted by being fixated on Brexit! - Curse them. ) to leave as big a mess as possible for Labour to clear up. Distgusting behaviour both physically and morally.

@andykostynowicz Месяц назад

If a company goes bust shareholders should lose their money. When investing we are told that shares go down as well as up. They took the risk. There is no reason why we the general public should pay the price

@simonmasters3295 Месяц назад

Nobody wants to live near sewage-polluted water... Something has to be done now, there is no time to waste doing retroactive legislation. UK gov needs some good lawyers on its side@@andykostynowicz

@derekdouglas5007 Месяц назад

@@kloffus3 Macquarie bank notorious for this kind of behaviour, identifies public infrastructure about to be privatised such as Sydney Airport, then squeezes every penny of profit out them and then flogs them usually at enormous profit. Known as the Millionaires Factory here in Oz.

@Schiltron Месяц назад

We have had two failed social experiments in the past 50 years. The first was widespread nationalisation which was a disaster. Then we had widespread privatisation which has also been a disaster. There is no single factor to explain the failures of both systems; however, lack of investment is certainly one of them. Successive governments in the 50s, 60s, 70s leading up to the privatisation experiment failed to invest in public infrastructure and spent the money on vanity projects and ploys to attract votes. The private companies who acquired public assets have likewise failed to invest and spent their money on pay-outs to owners and shareholders.

@captaintorch983 Месяц назад

An excellent analysis.

@katrinabryce Месяц назад

The difference is, if you don't like what British Airways or British Leyland (now Jaguar Land Rover) are offering, you can go to another supplier, or you can set up your own company to compete with them if you have the capital. That is not an option with Thames Water.

@bushwhackeddos.2703 Месяц назад

Of course mass Im migration is nothing to do with it.

@markfrancis5164 27 дней назад

Third failed social experiment, explosive immigration without proportional infrastructure increase.

@tedmaul5842 Месяц назад

Cathryn Ross who was the head of the chief facilitator for the water companies, Ofwat, then became the interim ceo of Thames Water. She should be asked serious questions about her complete conflict of interests. Did she knowingly help Thames while head of Ofwat and was there a financial reward for doing so when she joined Thames.? What lies at the heart of all this is corruption, that is putting the publics health in danger.

@SloopyDog 25 дней назад

I worked in a sewage works and when we had heavy storms the system couldn't cope. We often had untreated sewage washing into the river. Many sewage works are outdated because water companies are all for profit first, and upgrading the sewage systems second. Selling the utilities such as gas, electricity, and water was a big mistake which we are paying a high price for now.

@HShango Месяц назад

Ofwat should have been firm with thames water years ago, instead they were/are too lax.

@Dec38105 Месяц назад

oftwat are no use either

@thomaspickles8178 Месяц назад

Take a wild guess like greed lack of care and idiots who could not run a piss up in a brewery

@graemehancocks4171 Месяц назад

That about sums it up.

@michaelseibold9977 Месяц назад

Maggie Thatcher and decades of nonsense that markets solve all problems

@koala6016 Месяц назад

They create more than they solve, in this case.

@pennyyoung2291 8 дней назад

I’m nearly eighty and I can remember a News announcement that salmon had come back to the Thames as the water had become so clean. Can anyone remember when that was, or did I dream it?

@paulbiggs5523 Месяц назад

This is another example of failed privatisation. The idea of privatisation is a good one, but there seems to be a tendency for privatised industries to behave more along the lines of old fashioned nationalised industries. At the core of the issue is the role of Thames Water to provide, decent, clean and safe water. Through sewage dumping they are obviously not performing that role at the far end of the business. If it were a business where one was not compulsorily required to be a customer, then they would have ceased trading. I am sure, however, that those of us who are customers will ultimately end up footing the bill for a business that is clearly not run properly. It is worth remembering that those at the top of the water companies are alleged, by the media, to have recently taken record bonuses.

@geraldbutler5484 Месяц назад

In Australia privatisation was fought long and hard, especially with regard to utilities and the Commonwealth bank. The bank was privatised and the ability to keep the private banks honest and in line was lost.

@franc9111 Месяц назад

Privatisation was, has been and will always be a ripoff of gigantic proportions.

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

I'd say the idea of privatization is inherently bad for natural monopolies like sewer systems. For privatization to work, you need a competitive market. That's feasible with some things like broadband connections and delivery services. But you can't run multiple competing sewer systems in parallel.

@geraldbutler5484 Месяц назад

@@andybrice2711 Very true! However the Conservative mindset cannot stand the thought that where there is a quid to be made the common good should prevail.

@alan4yt Месяц назад

I once worked for Wimpey Laboratories (now gone) and we were monitoring pollution flow around the uk and internationally. We provided southern water. With a 4 mile outfall off Hastings which previously had been dumped straight out on local beaches at high tide. Local councils couldn't care less, and many local children were blinded when swimming and sailing clubs. It was only EU money that made improvements. The worst place was Tenby in Wales. Thames had a good survey dept, but it was shut down by new management in 2000 ish. The staff said the water bosses were more obsessed by taking over other water companies than doing their job. In dungeness power station area fish samples had tumors. Things were so bad in the Hartlepool the local canal had become solid as chemicals combined to make the water plastic. As a non-political view, the EU blue flag rule did more for britain than. Parliment.

@derekdouglas5007 Месяц назад

Not Mackwary Bank it is Macquarie Bank (McQuarry) named after New South Wales' 5th Governor. They are generally known here as the worst kind of predatory operators in Australia buying public and private assets all over the world and squeezing the last drop of profitability out of them, known here as the Millionaires Factory. Incidentally in Australia you cannot, on penalty of large fines, run storm water into the sewer, it is illegal. Perhaps these water companies an should be nationalised without compensation at zero cost to the taxpayer as they are effectively broke and unable to fulfil their statutory obligations, sadly that won't happen.

@williamlloyd3769 Месяц назад

Why haven't combined sewer and stormwater runoff systems been banned through the building codes years ago? It takes decades once the change is made but it can be done as systems are replaced over time.

@umwhatthistime Месяц назад

As usual a legacy of Thatcherism

@captaintorch983 Месяц назад

Utter bollocks as usual from the Labour party.

@umwhatthistime Месяц назад

you tories live in a childish fantasy world@@captaintorch983

@lafamillecarrington Месяц назад

And a lot of the Conservative party are heading back to Thatcherism. Thank goodness there will be a new government within a year - although I think that the Labour government will have to be pushed into doing anything positive for the environment.

@pritapp788 Месяц назад

@@captaintorch983 Give us examples of countries where private management of water delivered positive outcomes then. That is, positive outcomes other than corporate profits and "shareholder value".

@leoncarney2228 Месяц назад

Please explain why it is "utter bollocks"

@rufioh 10 дней назад

If it’s gonna be private, then water companies should not be allowed to pay any dividends unless they have had 10 years of good records on repairs, infrastructure upgrades, and no excess sewage outflows (which should be less than 365hrs per year). The moment they mess up, 10 years of no dividends. Basically we should make sure that if private companies are allowed to own public utilities, their fiduciary responsibility to shareholders should be valued lower than their responsibility to protect the public and their environment.

@RandallSlick Месяц назад

The 'regulator.' The same regulator who allowed a these regional monopolies to be sold off to to oversea pension funds, vultures and who knows else. The 2007 Ofwat position paper on Kemble's acquisition of Thames Water shows how clueless they were then. No reason to suspect improvement since. Still, with every sale, so many City spivs and consultants in the banks and accountants rub their hands. What a dismal country we are.

@itsmyview2024 Месяц назад

as with all infrastructure sell offs the regulators have been created as toothless tigers by predominantely tory governments to enable the various players from eton to trouser the countries cash

@johnbannister9212 29 дней назад

60 years ago I started my civil engineering career with my local water company. The Victorian pumping stations with their brass and copper fittings were an amazing spectacle and were kept as a marvelous record of the heritage that was duly recognized at that time. And then thatcher and her money-grabbing crowd got in and destroyed engineering and manufacturing from which the country has not recovered. Yet others still attempt to emulate this destruction in modern times. Money rules. An MBA replaces a BSc and MSc and makes the money stolen from the engineers. It will change, but no one learns except the rich get richer.

@onenote6619 Месяц назад

The previous owner took out massive amounts of cash and saddled the company with huge debts to pay for it. Then they sold it to a sucker. Same story as we saw with British Home Stores

@mrentertainer47 Месяц назад

Who is to blame? The government of course, for privatising a national and essential service for human survival! Absolutely despicable and the same goes for Energy resources!

@robertmaslin3844 Месяц назад

Let Thames water go bust, then buy it for a pound

@michaelbacon561 Месяц назад

- and ensure its directors are disqualified from being directors again - ever!

@user-tj5xu5vh5b Месяц назад

I can remember when we went to Spain on holiday there was raw sewerage in the sea,now we have it,it’s disgusting,we’re supposed to be a civilised country.The trouble is we build build build but don’t up grade the sewerage plants.

@SimonClaringbold Месяц назад

The asset manager was meant to be Macquarie (mack-quarry) - named after NSW Governor Lachlan Macquarie

@cinemaipswich4636 6 дней назад

Get the asset for nothing. Spend no money on upkeep. Mortgage everything. Give the money to the Directors and Shareholders. Declare bankruptcy. Taxpayer forced to buy it back. Rinse and repeat.

@kevinrichard100 27 дней назад

Why does the UK have this problem whereas other countries in Europe don't? The UK was warned by the EU Commission in 2012 that it was breaching clean water directives.. The UK promised to act. And did nothong. So in 2015 the Juncker Commission took the UK to Court. The ECJ. The UK promised to act so were let off with costs. The UK did nothing. And left the EU. As you know a new updated Water Directive went through Strasbourg this week tightening the rules on sewage and waste water even more, to ensure separation of sewage and rainwater. Why doesn't the Government share the cost with the water companies, stop shareholder returns, and sort it? We'll be forced to do it if we want to join the EU, in order to abide by EU Law. Tax is only 34% of GDP in the UK. In France, Belgium, Lux and Germany it"s 45%. Nordic countries 50%. No excuse. Can't Is Not A Word.

@johngriffin9720 Месяц назад

The water companies have (in total) paid 400% in share dividends, compared to what they have invested in infrastructure in the last decade. Millions of litres of raw sewage dumped into waterways every single day, and no prosecutions. Department of the Environment are a lackadaisical and incompetent organisation, their civil servants have regularly sought to diminish the level of wrongdoing, and deliberately misled the general population. The regulator is incapable of performing its regulatory function, and needs to be subject to root and branch reform.

@AJ-raps Месяц назад

I had to rewind to make sure I didn't miss hear her... She definitely said "sh*t storm" 🌪️

@keithheaven176 Месяц назад

I recall it being reported that Angela Merkel often used the term. All too appropriate here.

@chrisvalford Месяц назад

Having sub-contracted for Thames Water back in the early 80's I can honestly say their I.T. systems and management style were terrible. We were looking for huge water leaks in central London, found them, but were not believed by Thames Water, so my manager immediately resigned in disgust! I can remember well when Surfers Against Sewage were very active, as I lived in the South West back then. The water companies blamed EU regulations, and put the prices up conning the public into believing the extra cost was solely because of these "quality of life" regulations. When in fact the water companies did very little so solve the leaks and sewage problems and pocketed the profits. The only way this issue can be solved is to get some real experts in and upgrade all the services to modern standards, the government should pay for this 100%. I now live in Catalonia where we have problems with water supply, the local and regional governments are working with the water companies to solve this, something which I can never see happening back in the U.K. As a side note; Thames invested in meters to measure the flow of drinking water in the mains all over London. Many of them were not accurate due to a number of simple reasons, so the amount of water lost was never accurately measured, basically the wrong technology used at the customers expense.

@richard_wenner Месяц назад

I would really like to see a long term, in depth financial analysis of each water company. How much income was received and from where (charges/owner investment etc) and how this was spent either in effective physical plant/machinery/maintenance or 'released' as returns to shareholders. My fear is that the solid assets that the public water utilities used to be before privatisation have been squandered and raided building up huge debts at the public cost. I doubt that excess dividends could be recovered but at least a rough figure could be arrived at that would indicate the extend of this public cost/theft.

@Fishstickification Месяц назад

Nobody can ever explain to me how getting money from shareholders is beneficial because they have pretty much always taken more out than put in (because why else would they). Can only be accounting magic to pretend the uk budget isn’t as large as it is

@IraqiNews-bp5zo 22 дня назад

Nice one. The more critical you are of the current political situation, the more I like your presentation. Content is the king. Thank you.

@josephhoward3558 Месяц назад

No. 1, Too many people for the infra structure. No. 2, Our laws that allow people to buy utility companies and leverage loans against it while not making improvements..

@malthusXIII-fo3ep Месяц назад

Open borders = system overload = seemples!

@franc9111 Месяц назад

They are in it for the money, once they've grabbed as much as they possibly can, they move on to the next victim. The next bunch of mafia-style fraudsters are the chinese, so it can only get worse.

@markuslang1869 Месяц назад

So the investor payouts are roughly the amount necessary to fix the leaking system?! Who could have expected this...

@maxlipovore Месяц назад

It's always the case with the privatization of public assets, or private/public partnerships, that the private part gets the revenues and dividends then the public gets the debt. All over the world, it's the same thing everywhere. Crooks run free.

@johnwright9372 Месяц назад

Let them become insolvent, let the shareholders pay the debts, let the share price go to zero and a national or local publicly owned water boards buy them up for pennies.

@matt9017 Месяц назад

How can it cost the taxpayer anything to nationalise this wretched company? The thing is loaded with debt and about to go bankrupt. What on earth do people think shareholders need to be paid for? They should be paying the state!

@user-bu9nb8wr6e Месяц назад

Thatcher selling them. It’s insane letting businesses run an essential service.

@FreedomPhilosophyTV 28 дней назад

Private businesses provide food just fine. The state price fixing water is the problem here.

@andrewnielsen3178 9 дней назад

Selling off publicly owned utilities has been a disaster here in Oz as well. Some things just need to be done well and private enterprise will always take the short cuts and the cheapest option which unfortunately generally means do nothing and bleat that a bale out is needed. All this while the higher ups get million dollar bonuses.

@soniabates7170 27 дней назад

Thank you for making sense on a difficult ongoing problem,I really hope it gets solved sooner rather than later.

@JohnnyinMN Месяц назад

Typed in ‘Brexit’ for my daily comedy relief. This video appeared. Funny, an English sewage issue again in Britain. Not even surprised. Evolution in reverse.

@adrianprice4388 Месяц назад

Can you please explain something about the Bankruptcy process for Thames Water. It is my understanding that if a company goes bankrupt then the shareholders get nothing, and the remaining assets within the company go to the creditors.

@syedadeelhussain2691 Месяц назад

Uk is a classic example of how highly educated states with some of the best academic and reasonably apt bureaucratic institutions can struggle to deal with their problems. Problem-solving requires possibility thinking and human leadership to begin with and that is where I feel improvements can be made, but, I still don't see another Harold Macmillan, Wilson, Attlee, even Thatcher or Churchill emerging from within the organized political system.

@timj11dude Месяц назад

Who the hell os discussing paying the investors for a bankrupt company??? If its bankrupt, its value is 0, give it back to the state, and they can run it or sell if off again.

@footballmint Месяц назад

I really like this format, really good way of presenting journalism!

@margaretbrogan6685 Месяц назад

I would suggest they look at whoever privatised water. Tories , did you vote for them. England Belarus are the only countries, in Europe, I believe who have privatised their natural resource. Reminder. Not UK. England.

@step2henskiski День назад

The water companies have effectively laundered the £billions borrowed by giving them to themselves and shareholders (as this was allowed by the regulations) instead of investing the £billions into infrastructure (as we were lead to believe was what privatisation would do where public ownership had failed) even the basic need for increased levels of sewage processing facilities to match population increase (the reason for the sewage in our waterways). The water companies have racked up £77billion of debt given to themselves and shareholders. Taxpayers will have to bail them out to the tune of £77 billion+ either through the government or big increases to our bills. 😡

@guidovangelder2208 4 дня назад

The UK is one big warning to the rest of Europe: do this stupid thing, this might happen. Let’s do this, this could be the consequences….. As a neutral on looker, it’s really insightful.

@Gary-le7dz 29 дней назад

This bill for sewage was passed in 2021 by 275 vote to 208 , all 275 votes to allow raw sewage to be dumped anywhere were TORY

@custossecretus5737 9 дней назад

Who does Thames water owe £billions to? How was it allowed to accrue such debt? Pumping sewage into our water courses is an event that should only happen in emergency circumstances and be regulated. The regulator has fallen asleep at the wheel and should enforce its rulings. Public organisation’s these days care only about enriching themselves when they should be about providing a public service. The bosses of these public organisations should be held to account.

@forbesmeek6304 Месяц назад

Britain's Green & Pleasant Land. She means England's Green & Pleasant Land. Jeezo.

@Tel-cl2zz 12 дней назад

Shareholders (tories, the rich) are to blame and always have been. After WW2 the shareholders of nearly all the big industries and companies went to the Labour government and said, "We don't have the money to fix our infrastructure, you need to buy our companies and pay us a fair price or we will be forced to go bankrupt and throw millions of people out of work, which certainly won't help you politicly". So things like water, railways, gas, electric, transport, housing were taken into public ownership all the repairs eventually get done and the tax payer foots the bill. Then the shareholders (who own the media and who are also in government) cut the funding to these companies and watch prices go up and standards go down, then they say "this isn't working, it needs to be privatised and sold back to us at a seriously low price, because its not making a profit", not caring that it was actually a service for ordinary people and never meant to make a profit. Well, so here we go again, the shareholders are saying, "You'd better take us over and pay us or we will throw thousands out of work and wreck the water system", they're also doing it with the railways, water, steel and they'll be back again once the taxpayer has sorted it out, screaming PRIVATISE! I wonder how many more times the ordinary people of this country are going to get ripped off by the shareholders.

@DavidJohnson-yg8qm 29 дней назад

Who is to blame? The courts for not making these companies pay dearly for the damage they are creating. My water bill is 33 pounds a MONTH. These companies are getting fortunes out of us but as private organizations they will do the absolute minimum for maximum profit. Who wouldn't unless a canning is in the offing.

@samporter971 Месяц назад

The shareholders have had their wedge already ,take the water companies into public ownership now. They are in default.

@williamlloyd3769 Месяц назад

Are the UK Regulators forced to publish meeting notes and other data? Are voters allowed to attend meetings?

@stankarpenko Месяц назад

Shitstorm 😂 excellent

@haruhisuzumiya6650 6 дней назад

Thatcher may be dead and buried but the ghost of Thatcherism continues to haunt the Divided Kingdom

@matthewwiddows6319 Месяц назад

a private company, that isnt allowed to raise prices (rightly so), that has to prioritise shareholder payments, fake loan payments, what could go wrong with this model!!!!

@AllenTaylor-lu9bu Месяц назад

Sewage is dumped into our rivers at the rate of over 650 times a DAY!!! Yet the water companies still take £Billions in profits whilst carrying out minimum improvements. A way around paying to re-nationalise the companies is to fine them £50,000 for the first release and then continually double the fines each time they release sewage into our rivers.

@franswiggers601 29 дней назад

Who's to blame? No one else than the British voters themselves.

@TheGARCK Месяц назад

Simplest question to answer instantly. Tory Thatcherite privatisation of the most essential resource on Earth. Capitalism needs limits. It's NOT multi-faceted. It's simple.

@nraketh Месяц назад

These companies borrowed billions of dollars to pay their shareholders KNOWING TAX PAYERS WOULD HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO PAY FOR THAT DEBT. They should be thrown in jail, not “compensated.”

@orchidhouse297 11 дней назад

Place in order of size in terms of where the money goes - bonuses, dividends, investments, managers pay, workers pay, interest on borrowing, complaints department.

@patrikfloding7985 Месяц назад

Odd how “emergency” measures like dumping sewage is needed many times a day. Absurd.

@davidclark4653 Месяц назад

Excellent discussion, informative and intelligent. To me the solution is blindingly obvious. Our water supply should be nationalised and run by experts in that field. Yes it will be expensive but it should never have been privatised in the first place. Also those responsible for pollution, where it is criminal should be dealt with accordingly, never mind all this limiting bonuses etc, it’s the jail for you. That would get their attention! *

@genghisthegreat2034 Месяц назад

You don't have any experts in that field who aren't currently water company specialists, or consultants employed by them.

@P-Mouse Месяц назад

it will always be cheaper to not do treatment, than doing it. So if there are no consequences for the companies, why bother

@liaminwales Месяц назад

Surfers Against Sewage where campaigning for clean water and highlighting dumping sewage from at least early 2000's, it's a topic that's been ignored for a long long time. It sounds like a lot of big money is invested and no government wants to let them lose money, so it's a 'stealth' tax on the public with higher costs to 'fix it' at best?

@alfredbatchelor1954 27 дней назад

I’m a strong believer that Water, Grid, belong in the public sectors. Over my life time I note that each time major projects are needed, millions of pounds are waste over courts brought by objectors to new infrastructure, HS2, M25, cross rail, Greenham common, new reservoirs, and so many more. It’s not the average person protesting or funding the protest. But the same upper middle classes frustrating it and funding the frustration. Not in my back yard

@steveelliott9746 Месяц назад

Rivers and beaches are far cleaner since privatisation. People have forgotten what it was like before. Capital investment has doubled since privatisation but they are trying to catch up on years of underinvestment during the nationalised period and also a huge increase in the population. Even the Thames is considered clean. You can look it up. It is spotless compared with what it was before about 1970. People forget how filthy it was. It's cleaner than the Seine and cleaner than the Rhine. And Nationalisation is not the answer. There is one big water company in the UK which is not-for-profit, has no shareholders and pays no dividends and yet it has been putting sewage into rivers and the sea for years. You can look that up too.

@tomcarr1358 4 дня назад

Shareholders are to blame. Dividends matter more than system maintenance. Charge the assets and then plead lack of funds. Govt. should have capped companies' borrowing/charging rights.

@ianogden5067 11 дней назад

The people who run the sewer and water companies are to blame. Along with all people who send the wrong rubbish into the system.

@user-jd6lf9ep1m Месяц назад

We have problems because many sewage works sites are small and cramped with little space for expansion to accommodate all of the new housing. Do the planners approve housing developments without discussing the implications with the water companies

@genghisthegreat2034 Месяц назад

Adapt the existing tankage designed as separate aeration basins, and clarifiers, to fulfill both functions in a single tank. Sequence Batch Reactors will aerate the wastewater for part of the time cycle. Quiescent time after that allows the activated sludge to settle. Decant off the clarified effluent on top. Repeat the cycle. Not only can plant capacity be increased by 50 % or more on the same footprint, but you can remove nitrate based nutrient before discharge, at no extra cost. They know this already, they don't want the retrofit hassle.

@Leehuss5582 10 дней назад

All water companies that were sold by the government have not invested our hard earned money into fixing the mammoth leaks still going on or the countless amount of sewage being runoff into the sea or rivers. The water companies never fix the issues...why would they, they are not based in the UK....

@roberthastings4570 Месяц назад

So in short they took on debt to pay themselves dividends and bonuses, knowing they had a monopoly that would not be allowed to go bust. All this time the regulators were and are still not fit for purpose. Let it go bust and take it into public ownership. Do not pay the shareholders because there company failed. Don’t repay the dept because they were poorly researched loans. That’s business and a free market economy, is it not?

@jonb5493 Месяц назад

For once I agree with - at least part of - Jacob Rees-Mogg's statement about this: Thames Water should go bankrupt. I don't see why shareholders in this case should face any different fate than that which generally applies in such situations: zero out equity, give bondholders a haircut, re-org somehow, maybe taking back into govt ownership. This worry about pension companies' equity is simply stupid, or even offensive. Of course I understand that JRM is simply contriving a toxic (in many senses) trap for the incoming Labour govt.

@dianeirvine7624 Месяц назад

It’s a criminal act to dump raw sewage into waterways - another criminal act by this government MPs should be forced to swim from Hammersmith bridge to Richmond bridge , they’d proably float

@justgeneric2876 10 дней назад

When water company’s first went back rust in public sector, the uk bailed it out and sold it. Now it’s gone bust we are expected to bail it out again. I know it’s a tough pill for investors given this is a monopoly so this needs to go back to being in the hands of the biggest co-op in the country, the state and not be resold to a private water company at a clear massive loss.

@homobohemicus 26 дней назад

How is that even possible?!!!!!!!!!! When hearing about the the cost of living in the UK (local taxes and other payments including mobility and transportation) I definitely fell off my chair!

@thejesusaurus6573 Месяц назад

what do you mean who is to blame? the Tories have been in government for near 15 years. The Tories removed environmental protections that would prevent dumping sewage into rivers. The tories are to blame.

@donelson52 Месяц назад

Criminal charges ... prison

@ragingrover 28 дней назад

I've been in the engineering and construction of water utilities for over 30 years, for the big ones including Thames Water. There is a lot of misguided cobblers being talked here. I could write pages on this, there's the media truth, the public perception truth and the real truth. I'm not a supported for these companies, not because of ideology but because I see first hand how they operate.

@Pongle1234 28 дней назад

OK, enlighten us...

@kratzikatz1 29 дней назад

Water, power, hospitals, sewage, streets, are parts of society that are strongly forbiden to privatise.

@paulstewart6293 Месяц назад

In the commune where I live, in Brittany, the council owns and operates water and sewage systems. And it works very well, it's also cheap!

@mackieincsouthsea Месяц назад

Will was really great here, not seen him on the channel before. interesting discussion! 👏

@wgj4813 Месяц назад

Financial institutions have found a way of earning indexed linked money irrespective of the business because it was realised the income from water rates was almost never ending. The brake and control that was put in place when the industry was privatised has failed leading to a huge cash grab called debt repayments when all along the water bills we all pay were actually enough to keep our water and sewage flowing as we expected. Governments allowing companies to have a public service monopoly without adequate controls is a dereliction of Parliamentarians duty. The public cannot be asked to continue paying for a debt they got no value from. Something radical needs to happen like administration and liquidation. .