WHO SHOULD FACE HIVE FLEET LEVIATHAN? GUILLIMAN OR EL'JONSON? 

Both of them fighting side by side would be dope af

I’d appoint Guilliman. The Lion is a remarkable general but this is not a war of individual battles and turning points - it’s like trying to direct a spear point offensive against the very tide of the sea. You need to hold the Hive Mind back, and you need logistics to do that.

I always pictured Guilliman telling one of his brothers "we have this problem that suits your skillset" then asking him "would you be willing to deal with that"? He'd make it appear like they're doing him a favor rather than commanding them. He'd give them all the information he has, then let them do their own thing.

like any good generals know, a plan never resist first contact with the enemy. Shit hit the fan and unexpected situation always come up to threaten victory. The Lion is a much more flexible and adaptable commander and I feel he should be in charge of the army while Guilliman support him logistically.

I think it will come down to both of them, not just one. The strategic mind of girlyman and the ferocity of the big cat working in tandem with each other will be the deciding factor against leviathan

Well, both Guilliman & the Lion will both be facing the Tyranid threat in Imperium Nilhilus. However, Johnson has access to some very rare tech. The Men of Iron would be very useful against the Tyranids, plus free up troops for other theatres of war.

Abaddon and Guilliman side by side like a Pirates of the Caribean movie! :^)

Clonegrim needs to break out of stasis and take some initiative!!

Fitting the "Exterminator" would take care of the bugs. Under the strategic guidance of Raboute.

It will be Gulliman. The Ultramarines as a chapter have more history with the Nids than nany chapter. Gulliman himself is best suited to the vast scope a campaign against the Nids presents. In fact, of all primarchs the only ones who would rival Big G would be pre Heresy Morty or Perty due to their love if large scale scorched eaerh tactics

WAIT WAIT WAIT @Wolf Lord Rho you just said the direct approach with world eaters with the Nids is stupid. Yet here we are praising the lion. No doubt the two legions and primarchs are widely different in a lot of ways but never the less that savage aspect is paramount in both.

The lion can win almost any battle, guilliman can win almost any war. However unless both of them work in unison, leviathan is definitely a bigger threat than either have ever versed say for perhaps the rangda

Both Primarchs might probably be the first time slaying Tyranids

Just bring both of them in time to fight tyrannids. There are already many planets ripped apart...

1 space wolf ogryn hybrid .... job done

together would be better!!!

Why not both or better yet a third option LEMANNNNNNNNNNNN RUSSSSSSS

My money is on the Lion, as a field commander and his legion taking on threats like the Rangdan in the past, they would seem the best to take on Leviathan and having the tools to do it

GW will probably forget about the hive fleet now they have sold a load of new bugs......Oh look the silent king is back.

Rob is on the other side of the galaxy but that's his only real disadvantage here that I can see. He's been around a while, he's familiar with the enemy and, as stated, is more or less ready to wield the might of the imperial military in response to the threat. I'm not certain the Lion even knows what a Tyranid is at this point in time. He's still getting up to speed and back on the scene so to speak. Heck, do we know if he's actually sat down with the Risen and the Inner Circle and put this whole Fallen thing to bed yet? Anyway, both are certainly capable of responding to this - if you plucked Guilliman out and replaced him with the Lion in charge of the imperial military, you're going to get the same result. Both are going to get the job done in their own way. In an ideal situation, they would work together to devise and execute a plan. I suppose another thing to consider is whether or not the Angels were to bring any of their forbidden weaponry into this. That could potentially have a huge impact in how fast this could get resolved. I just think that we all need to hold up a bit and consider that both of these primarchs have changed and grown in ways since we first met them. I don't like the idea of labelling them as 'logistics guy' and 'beast-mode' guy or whatever. Rob has done wonders for the imperium in the modern setting and he hasn't accomplished what he has by being an armchair general. The newly awakened Lion still maintains much of his old personality traits, but he's a bit more tempered now. He tends to pause for a moment to consider the bigger picture a bit more than he used to. Let's hope that if we ever see some books on this that the writers note these developments as I think it would make the characters and the stories more interesting. I just wonder - as Lion gets better at controlling his new forestwalking ability - and we already know he can take others with him - maybe he could be the one to find Rob and guide them both to the other side of the galaxy and fight this threat together. Thanks for the video !

Honestly neither. Ohh they would both do great, but so fare this isn't a Primarch-show. The Lion is stuck fighting in the Dark Imperium and Guilliman is focused on The Rift and Chaos's main attacks. This War is the responsibility of the High Lords and the broader imperial military machine.

I'd like too the Lion fight. No complex reason, I just want the Lion to get more screen time

Both. They will go together, brothers reunited. And whatever their relationship is, I think we know that they would work together in battle REALLY well. Both tactical geniuses, and both knowing they can rely on the other one. Especially if the Dark Angels aren't abandoning the battle to chase some fallen.

It would be interesting to see the first unleash untold terrors from old night on the tyranids now that we expect them to be reinforce back to full strength with primaris

People here are selling El’ Johnson way short, they acting as if The Lion is the better individual combatant but Guilliman the better strategist which is just wrong. It’s more like who was the better general Eisenhower or McArther? Most people would obviously say McArther which he was but Eisenhower was better at logistics and diplomacy with Allies.just like Guilliman which is why he was given overall command but McArther was a strategic genius with planning just like the Lion. Guilliman was never in the running for Warmaster and it was Johnson who the greatest threat of the Rangdan and the powerful Krave was tasked.

I’d go with El’Johnson. The Emperor used El’Johnson and the Dark Angles to annihilate the Imperium’s most dangerous xenos threats - the Rangdan, for example. While other legions had their asses handed to them, the 1st Legion annihilated the xenos. Sure, the Dark Angles of the 41st Millennium are a shadow of the Dark Angles pre-Heresy, and they are fewer in number, but El’Johnson is still the primarch to the Chapters can rally around on the field. He’d be the better field commander while Guilliman is the better administrator and tactician.

Obviously, none of them will show too much emotion or vulnerability in front of their men, but when they have time alone, I can see Guilliman ranting, breaking down, not crying but airing tons of his frustrations and anger at what has happened to their Father's dream, and their father himself. With the Lion listening quietly, absorbing the current state of the Imperium at large from Guilliman's venting.

Guilliman: We take them together, you flank them slowly on the left and i....... The Lion: I am taking them now!

It’s ironic, Robute lacks the killer instinct that the Lion has to put something like the Tyranids down for good while the Lion just isn’t a big picture guy like Guilliman and is not great at building alliances like he is. Put them together though and you’d have the Hive Mind on the back foot.

The Tyranids are in the western part of Imperium Sanctus. The Lion is on the other side of the rift. Guilliman is supposed to be heading towards the Pariah Nexus at this point.

Going to be epic. Would be great to have insights into the lord of the first as the hunter: returning his his roots in a way. Hunting beasts as he did where began as a boy on Caliban. A spiritual evolution, returning to the beginning and 'growing' and evolving as a character

Plot Twist: ROGAL DORN. Seeing entire Hive Tendrils starve because the defenses established by the Sire of the Imperial Fists are so formidable that attacking them is more fruitless than attacking Necron Tomb Worlds would be both hilarious and awesome.

Both brothers, would be a great throwback to Rogal & Sanguinius during the Horus Heracy as well. 2 Loyal brother reunited again.

Guilliman can stick to strategy and logistics from a broader perspective while the Lion can be an excellent field commander. The two are well-suited to working in tandem.

Book excerpt: Lion El'Johnson: Lord of the First The Wolf King boasted to all that he was his father's executioner. He was a deterrent, a hound to snarl from behind a sealed gate, never to be unleashed. What the Lion was to his father did not speak its name so brazenly. For where Russ was a warning, the Lion was a solution. The final solution. He was the Emperor’s exterminator. Which is why i'd choose the Lion over Roboute.

Guilliman needs to sort out all the logistics, get the Lion the forces he needs and then let the Lord of the First do what the Lord of the First does best. Annihilate monsters. Let the Exterminator be an Exterminator

Honestly I’m a bigger fan of Leontus handling it

Neither. We need a proper commander for this task. Someone call Dante.

It doesn't really make much difference. If you go by lore the Tyranids should win but if you go by plot armour then the lmperium will. However it will be a draw, it always is.

both of them. Girlyman can fight the leviathan logistically, overseeing the mass tendrills of the hive fleet, while the lion strikes at the heart of the hive fleet and takes it out from the inside out

If anyone still has access to life eater bombs, it'd be the first...

I say let the lion face chaos and Gulliman face the Nids

The real choice is always Alpharius

El'jonson should have supreme command. Guilliman doesn't really have the experience in fighting threatening xenos on the same level the lion has from against the rangda.

I feel like this is more of a Calgar or Dante thing. Especially as they both have a personal beef with the hivemind and they've been somewhat sidelined.

Obviously, should leave the grand strategy to Guilliman, while having the lion bring down the hammer on key targets or defend key worlds. If for some reason you'd have to pick one, the grand strategy master.

Guilliman - "Give me a minute, I'm good. Give me an hour, I'm better. Give me 6 months, I'm unbeatable." Jonson - "Your first mistake, you took the job. Your second mistake? You came light. A four man crew for me? Fucking insulting."

We need to remember what the Lion did before Big E found him. He slayed all the beasts of Caliban. The Lion slays beasts, dragons, demons, Angrons and carniflexes. The Lion will exterminate all the Bugs, but at a cost.

This is what the Lion was made for. The Tyranids are a predator, always hungry with incredibly cunning. Out of every Primarch the Lion was the one chosen to exterminate the xenos, the only one sanctioned to use the horrifying weaponry of the Dark Age. Why was this? The Lion's battlefield presence and adaptability are based in instinct, the goals and objectives of xenos can often be in-comprehendible to humanity, seemingly logical xenos objectives might be entirely ignored and miniscule ones be overrun. Instinct counters that, Rowboat would adapt and learn from mistakes, it would be unlikely that the Lion would make any. The team up would be epic, with Gorillaman's logistical support and xcel autism the two would clap some serious 'nid cheeks.

Honestly both are overkill for the Tyranids which is why Valoris and the Lord Solar are handling it. However between the 2 the Lion with his Legion gathered and his DAOT hunting the Norn Queens and destroying the command he would decimate the fleets. Letting Valoris hold the defenses. Guilliman would also be able to out strategy the Tyranids if there. But it would be harder. Guilliman and the Lion need to deal with the Silent King and the Nexus, Abbadon and Vashtorr finding the Old Ones weapon, and helping stop Chaos and secure the Imperium Nighalis.

Although I've really warmed to Guilliman I feel as though he detracts from the 40k setting. The resurrection of deceased and/or AWOL Primarchs will only continue to diminish things. There was something heroic about elevated humans waging the eternal struggle. The Primarchs, for all their 'humanity' are not human.

I'm gonna hold out for VULKAN leading a giant WAaAGH of KRORK and Salamanders... *VULKAN LIVES* ... *STOMP STOMP*

I kinda hope gurliman and kittycat stays on the wrong side of the rift, until Terra is in real jeopardy. Giving GW an excuse to bring Dorn back, inwoke "the last wall protocol", and show us how many the Black Templars really are 😁

it shall be neither! for the Gorgon, the damned and the MEN of IRON shall hold the bulwark! just kidding, activate "Last War Protocol"

Rememer The Lion and His legion took on the Ragdan in the past. It was stated that other legions couldn't handle the Ragdan and they where equivalent to the Horus heresy. It only took the Dark angels to step in and Annihilate the Ragdan. In the End is basically GW writing honestly Lion el Jonson could take on the Tyrnids easily. If he forms up his legion at full strength and release his Daot on them. But fans of the tyrnids faction is going to get butt hurt or is not grim dark. I will say that is Grim dark because your precious Faction is loosing and the despair that brings you will make it grim dark lol. But the fandom can't accept facts

I feel like the obvious but overlooked answer to countering the nids is the imperial navy. Use your heaviest weapons platforms packed full of astartes and engage the swarm in the open void where most of there advantages are completely neutralized. Distances to large to effectively utilize the swarms, most of their highly specialized bioforms are useless, and most obviously, no biomass. Am I wrong here?

IMO. I think neither will. I'm of the opinion that the long deceased Primarch of the tenth legion, Ferrus Manus will return. Steps and measures have been made that indicate that he could very well be making a return as Bellacarious Cawl is in fact at work on something as big as the restoration of the Gorgan. And who better than the wrath of ferrus manus to pit against the swarm that is leviathan. I believe Ferrus is being brought back to first make repairs and improvements to the golden throne to stall and help halt the process of the thrones degradation and failure. Once completed Ferrus Manus will have no choice but to face Leviathan as they are in no short measure making a spear tip that drives towards Terra directly. Who better than another candidate for the position of Warmaster. Someone who not only has strategic genius but also and outrage of of wrath. He dosn't match the lions singular focus in combat but the singular focus if combat can't stop Leviathan. He dosn't match the overall genius of Gullimans strategies, but he can lead the counter charge and battle front of THIS war against the tides of the Tyrinid swarms. A renewed Ferrus Manus is what the Imperium will need to counter this threat with equal number in the storms of iron wrath. Raise the storm Ferrus Manus. Raise the storm

Between the two? I think the lion is the better option. Guilliman is a practical commander of unfathomable tactics and insight. But he’s *the* general, *the* liege lord. But the lion? He’s a hunter. The unending march of inevitable doom. Ruthless extermination. Precise death.

I wonder how many Hive Tyrants supporting a Swarm Lord Lion el Johnson could take on. Afyer all, Dante' defeated a Swarm Lord and he is of baseline Astartes stock.

Fighting the nids is a logistics game. Not a fight. Johnson had committed a few grand scale xenocides before but he's not on Rowboat's level for the long game rather than current standing. We're it not for the risen the Lion wouldn't even be an option. 40k dark angels are not 30k. Blueberries are just as blue as ever.

Sanguinius brings the lion and guilliman together to stand against the leviathan (imperium secundus?). Don't ask me how he returns, but in story there will be a parallel to the lions return. Sanguinius will lead the offensive, Guilliman will run the logistics (naturally), and the lion will hunt specific tyranid threats, ending in the hive mind being killed. That won't stop the tyranid threat but will put the tyranids on their back foot. This will lead to the evolution of a new hive mind and a fundamental change in the tyranid There will be at least one cataclysmic event and I'm betting it's a direct assault on Holy Terra. I'm NOT saying the emperor will return, but we'll also get some emperor/star child shenanigans. The tyranids are getting a little out of hand and things need to come to a head. Primarchs returning when things seem to be getting worse? I think it's for the tyranids and not chaos or any other threat

Guilliman will be bogged down until Lion ElJohnson arrives with a heck ton of risen and all the Dark Angels/successor chapters. That’s my opinion.

Guilliman for the enemy within - rebuilding the fractured Imperium. The Lion for the enemy without - breaking Leviathan's advance.

The architect of the istvan massacre who is so blind he got backstabbed by his father figure, and then went lied to all of his loyal brothers, but told Peter turbo his real plans, who then use his super weapons against him, or brother, who has successfully pushed back, wave after wave of the Tyranids who is hand, chosen by the Emperor to rule in his stead, beef up by the armor of fate and 10,000 years of stasis while the lion got old? Seriously though the lion is not the same egomaniac who always overvalued his own skills like he used to be but you truly read the Lord and don’t listen to anyone else you will have to come to the conclusion that Gilman is the most complete Primark ever… he’s literally second best in the galaxy at every single category. he’s not better than the other Primark at their specialty, but he best at everyone with no holes in his game except he loved Family too much. But he has learned and now he’s truly dangerous.

So I give the edge to Johnson for a somewhat odd reason... Bureaucracy. Not as Guilliman being the source of it... But because he cares to navigate the red tape and b.s. that the Administratum and other organizations throw in is way at times. He makes concessions and tries to be a diplomat AND a general at most times because he sees it as building the Imperium. The problem is all of that takes valuable time. Johnson has little time for mediating and even less time for any extra distractions from the task at hand. There may be more political fallout for Johnson in the aftermath, but he would cut through all the red tape literally and figuratively until the deed was done.

Gilly Suit and Lion-O team up with the Silent King and Necron Ash Ketchum to take down the Nids and then the Primarchs get double crossed and Poke-balled and link up with Clonegrim and then the three of them break out and beat Abbadon like those chicks at the end of Death Proof.

All this video proved is that you can’t trust a son of Russ when it comes to pontificating upon the Dark Angels or their Primarch. #biased. JK, great video and I agree that Robust Gorillaman is the best Primarch to take on the nids.

There is no answer for the Tyranid threat. Doesn't matter which Primarch leads the charge because it's a war that cannot be won. GW have written themselves into a corner by creating an enemy so overly powerful that they SHOULDN'T be beaten under any circumstances. There's no hope in a hopeless scenario.

Leviathan is gonna get stopped by a combination of all the factions most likely. The imperium defending itself and Chaos, Necrons, Orks all coming in to fight to claim worlds before Leviathan eats all the resources.

At this point in time, Robute is better resourced to deal with the threat by a long stretch. In addition, he has the better intelligence on the threat and how to defeat it, including Uriel Ventura who has first hand experience with the threat. If it were Heresy era 1st Legion then you would argue that their Dark Age Technology would give them the upper hand. The Lion would still arguably be a better individual combatant but a Tyranif threat is not about individuals as opposed to bringing a mass of combined forces to bear is the key.

So if Guilliman's unbeatable with prep time does that mean he's Batman?

Honestly I'd say the Lion should be the one to take the tyranids. Guilliman building a vast supply and intelligence network and the Lion having all the resources he'd need from Guilliman. Guilliman builds the backbone but the Lion directs the hands. Plus any plans he'd made for the tyranids the Lion could further refine and tune. Also there is the whole hunting of beast the Lion used to do.

Absorb the necrons into the imperium alongside the mechanicus. Really just need a politician to prevent infighting. Maybe the emperor can get a new body while at it. Armies that can’t be absorbed and a direct enemy of chaos with super weapons ready and waiting. And the direct knowledge of what happens when you misguide tech and purpose.

Easy choice. Guilliman would do well in bringing enough force to bear to defeat leviathan Butt.... The lion has access to dark technology which will defeat leviathan with minimal empire losses. The invincible Reason will control the near space.

Ideally it'd be both, with Guilliman being the shield, bolstering the imperium and leading the defence in weathering the assault, while the Lion acts as the spear, to strike out right into the soft underbelly while the enemy is distracted fighting Guilliman But with the galaxy being so vast, enemies so numerous, and only two primarchs, they might decide not to have both primarchs going after the same enemy. I think the Tyrannids are the kind of threat that certainly warrants both but they may not see it that way

They should do it together. Tag team the Queen, and then they both take off their helmets tired, beaten, and bloody, and just hug eachother. No words, just 2 brothers, glad theyre no longer alone against the infinite grim darkness of the 42nd Millennium.

Doesn't really matter. It will be the same GW thing. A few disposable characters will die and at the last moment either will eacape or have a draw so the product can keep going. There is no risk or loss in 40k.

The lion, undoubted. Its not even a question. The beast slayer of Caliban, I couldn't think of a better primarch to fight the nids.

Who's the most Batman primarch? Not Konrad, despite his war on crime and use of the dark and bats, it's Gulli with his prep time and logic for the sure thing win.

Bar the Emperor, there’s only one human mind who can beat the hivemind in a galaxy wide game of 5D chess. Guilliman is the only real choice.

Cant The Lion Go anwhere instantly now with his new forest walking ability? He could just put tanks and terminators on the hive fleet ships and take them all down from the inside.

Lion under 2 conditions. 1st if the Forest walk is not compromised by the shadow. 2nd if Lion has all the intel. the he will simply teleport to the command unit, stomp on it and rest will be a walk in the park)) otherwise Gman has more chances

The Lion bar none, Bobby G doesnt has a stash of dark age tech gifted to him by the Big E, and who knows what heinous things the 1st could unleash on the Nids with that

where gamesworkshop have always been fast and loose with numbers just to make the story sound more epic, the threat of leviathon is muted so theres loads of them, like a big waagh or the billions of imperial guard, more pop up or vanish just to allow GW's narrative. something else needs to be revealed in order to make the nids a credible threat

Assuming both guilliman and the lion working together. The lion strikes directly while guilliman is the main strategic brain of the offensive, defense and the logistics. The lion striking directly kinda buys time for guilliman to plan and study the foe if needed

If one of the Primarchs comes back to fight the bugs, why would the Emperor need to rise to godhood to save Holy Terra?

With this talk guilliman crossing the rift, does that mean this takes place before devestation of baal? The timelines confuse my aged brain.

With Dreadwing Protocol initaited and release of some or most Dark Age of Technology weapons, Lion could manage

Can the lion forest warp in at points where there are tyranid organisms coordinating shit and just hop around taking out their command structure? Tyrranids are my least known about lore bit outside gladius.

I could see The Lion, Dante, and Gulliman forming a new Triumvirate as Rulers of the Empire.

I mean Lion has immense experience with dealing with Xeno species. I mean Hell, he's credited with being the reason why the Rangdan Xenocides weren't the end of the Imperium.

Both. They'll need Guillimans skill in administration, but i feel The Lions martial prowess is also needed to face off agains the Nids

Rogal Dorn, once he finally walks out of the Imperial Throne room in his customised Centurion armour :)

I mean, the entire point of The Lion is that he is the monster slayer. And other than chaos, i cant think of a bigger "monster" than the 'nids. So if we absolutely had to have one of them lead the fight against them, id choose The Lion. But ive seen others comment that neither should be the one to tackle this threat, and i think that would also be a good choice.

Is Leviathan even a threat? We got 1 terrible book "leviathan " which contained a minor and dull threat. And since we haven't heard a pep

I hope the Third Primarch introduced is the Khan backed by the laughing god Cegorach to be able to use the webway to go fast and be speed anywhere in the galaxy

I think The Lion should stop the Hive fleet. Robute would be on route to deal with it only for the Lion and company to have dealt with it or most of it and Robute hearing the story of the Lion and being torn with finding his brother or continuing with his crusade.

The lion, he would talk to grimnar and basically commandeer the space wolves for a crusade together, not even the leviathan could stand against those two legions led by the lion.

G.....Lion has ben sleeping for to long, but also I think G is more suited at large scale battles, while Lion for smaller.

I feel that Angron has become nothing more than a punching bag for people to show their worth against. The red angel doesn't even have his full wits about him.