I admit that Marinette contradicted herself a lot by continuing to choose heroes that Hawk moth already knew their identities, but if we think about it, Chloe could easily continue to be Queen bee with a change of costume, just like Cat Walker, and that's it, off Hawk moth's radar ,problem solved👌🏼
@@WeirdBeans her entire redemption arc was thrown out the window at the end of s3. If the arc continued there would be a possibility for her outfit to change
I liked how being Queen Bee was changing Chloe remember? It was so cool to see her change. They should make Chloe character better but they just gave up everything and made her evil like come on she was the first one to refuse akuma.
Even if they wanted to make her a villain make her an actual threat she should be actively helping Shadow Moth triggering akumatizations making plans. Instead of her being a brat she could've been a delusional girl genuinely viewing the world as a kingdom where she's the queen everyone else are her slaves/peseants and ladybug is her royal guard or to be more precise her former royal guard now she turns Shadow Moth into her royal guard and Ladybug is her betrayer upon whom she must seek vengeance being queen bee didn't improve her as a person it instead encouraged her delusional mindset and here's what would've made her more impactful: Everyone would try to help her but she would outright refuse help she'd continue to be mentally ill she'd continue to be a delusional "queen"and refuse to acknowledge there's something seriously wrong with her.
@@Poke_Miracle_Owl_Universe That is what they were going for, I guess. If she wants to change, it has to be because she wants to not because Adrien said to.
I want to add something about Chloe's relationship with her mother. Her mother didn't become soft with her unless she is mean she even asked her "are you mean as that Mari girl say?" once Chloe told her about the bad stuff she is doing her mother smiled and hugged her saying "you are exceptional" For Chloe who is thriving for mother's love (even revealing her identity for her) that clears one path "If I am mean and bad my mother will love me" and it's just sad.
and cannot be a way to redeem CHloe; who spent 3 years without her mother seeing her and judging her behavior, while she could learn the good example from Adrien
Yeah! Both Chloe and Marinette were wasted characters, just like all of the other characters, which is disappointing. They couldn't have been just friends, but best friends.
Ah yes, I love inspirational messages from kids shows such as, “If you’ve been emotionally neglected or raised badly by your parents, you can’t change, you will forever be a terrible person because that’s just who you are even though it wasn’t your fault at all and you only act this way as a desperate attempt to gain the love you were robbed of as a child, to bad so sad your sister’s better than you” Thank you Thomas Astruc
People are saying that Chloe stole a bee miraculous in style queen episode like- she didn’t steal it she found it, steal and find words are not the same thing 🤦🏻♀️
@@BalqisGeorges I like your idea for a plot! It sounds way better than what we're getting. And I heard in original art, Marinette, Chloe and Alya were supposed to be a trio of friends (with Chloe still being rich), but they scraped that idea and made her bratty.
I agree with almost everything except when you said that Marinette played with Chloe's emotions. While she could have told her way sooner, I think that was very hard for Marinette for two main reasons: she didn't want to hurt her feelings AND most importantly she knew that Chloe being Queen Bee could help her become a better person, so taking that chance away from her wouldn't feel right. But yeah, Marinette should have definetely told Chloe way sooner. At the end of the day this was all done because the creator of the show just didn't want to have Chloe become an actual hero, and a bunch of nonsense stupid excuses were made to "justify" Chloe turning back to an antagonist.
Marinette did play with Chloe’s emotions she might not have been aware but she still did it I get y she put it off but she rlly should just done the right thing and told her woulda saved a whole lot of problems from happening🤷🏼♀️ but yeah unfortunately thomas just hates Chloe sm and doesn’t want any character growth for her
@@dangerbuffrocky It’s bad but the good episodes were GOOD. seasons 1 and 2 were great and season three had majority bad episodes but the episodes that were actually amazing were top episodes for the series. season 4 was just messy tbh. i think season 4 would’ve been better if they fixed the plot holes and didn’t have literally everyone become a hero. they should’ve stuck with the main 7.
@@nanamifan0220 I mean, the whole thing about the heroes feeling "out of place" was intentional. It was to show how much Ladybug was relying on the other heroes and neglecting Cat Noir, which was the reason that the finale went the way it did and now we're back to where we started, but not at the same time. Season 4 had good interwoven storylines that are still relevant even to this point in the story and was the most character driven season, setting up what the status quo of the show could look like moving forward after the Agreste arc, and having a lot more character growth for side characters, Alya being a prime example of this.
Personally, I agree with what you said. Chloe (in my opinion) had a better "superhero arc" than most of the miraculous team; because her build-up was very great and her reason was very valid: all she wanted to do was prove herself and be accepted, but the rest of the team (maybe not all of them)... their buildup was extremely lazy and forced, they just get it like... that, and are already masters at their powers. Also, in miracle queen: Marinette returning the dragon miraculous to Kagami was pathetic writing. The writers just did that mainly to make Chloe bad again... if that is not what you call lazy writing, then I don't know what is! And not mention, Chloe's downfall was also terrible; because it made zero sense and felt forced. I seriously cannot believe that the creator thinks that she is irredeemable! It's just very wrong and cruel 💔 I also agree with you about Marinette being a hypocrite. Her hypocrisy is present even more in season 4! Very astounding. What's even more astounding is that the creator decided to create a very boring character to be the "nice version" of Chloe. Very lazy and pathetic! And, that's all I gotta say... sorry if my comment is too long 😅
I really liked development of Chloe as a hero. I completely agree with you that Chloe has the most realistic reaction to her superpowers. And I really love the thing that Chloe really tried to be helpful and doesnt take everything so easily like other heroes. One of my favourite moments with Queen Bee is when it was shown Chloe's actions in the first person(it was really short moment though). These some seconds shows like viewers can feel themselves in her shoes and like everyone in front of the screen can be the hero of his own life. Sorry for mistakes, english is not my first language🥲
It would be one thing for Chloe to find the miraculous and announce herself as Queen Bee only to return the miraculous that was never ment for her in just one episode, but Ladybug (and the writers) continued to use Chloe as Queen Bee in several episodes throughout season two. Queen Bee was a proper super heroine who had saved lives at that point and a member of team Miraculous, despite having her identity being revealed. Then, out of the blue in season three, Ladybug decided she could no longer be part of the team, with nothing to prompt Ladybug to change her mind. Remember, the first thing Queen Bee did was reveal her identity. If that was a problem, why did Ladybug use her at all and get her hopes up? So, it is kind of Marinette's mess, because of course Chloe would be mad, Ladybug is kicking her out of the one thing that brings purpose and joy to her life for a reason that didn't count until months after it happened. And yes, I do find her actions in the season three finale bad, especially since she seemed to be in a good place after Miraculer. But what was Marinette expecting when she pulled the rug out from under her? Thank you for this video!
I feel like if ladybug wanted to take it away from chloe, then she could've done just that but to give the bee miraculous to zoe was honestly pretty terrible to me. I mean seriously, that's her sister for goodness sake. even if zoe were a good character, it still wouldn't be right because that's her sister after all. not only that but I feel like it's a total slap in the face to chloe. when ladybug gave the bee miraculous to zoe, it probably made chloe feel terrible and not good enough to be a superhero. as much as I love ladybug, I do have to say that her giving the miraculous to zoe was definetely NOT the best option. I think it wouldn't be as bad if she were to give the miraculous to some regular person yk. just the fact that she gave it to her own sister was horrible. this is just my opinion and also something to add on to what you were saying in the video. (I had to make an edit bc I made a small grammar mistake)
Yeah to me the biggest problem with giving it to Zoe is that she just met her she legit gets her miraculous after one ep like what- there r so many other people she coulda picked who r way more trustworthy than Zoe but yeah her being Chloe’s sister is such a slap in the face to me :/
A sister that never existed until a few days ago and next thing you know she’s taking everything away from Chloe… yet Chloe is the bad person? Yea the writing is so terrible. Clearly the show is just banking on the fandom to just GET the point but looking at it from another direction Chloe is justified.
What most bothered me about the whole Miracle Queen arc was as you said that Ladybug took way too long to tell Chloe that she probably wouldn't get her miraculous back, while with other heroes who's identities had been compromised like Ryuko, she told them right away and ofc they understood. But with Chloe she didn't, from what we see Chloe spend weeks if not months expecting to be given her miraculous, waiting in the roof and putting on the bee signal for Ladybug to know that she was available, in the Star Train episode she directly told her and Cat Noir to give her the miraculous so she could help and they just gave her an excuse of "we didn't take it with us because we didn't know you'd be here" further building on her hopes that she would get it back at some point And when she finally told her, I felt like she didn't quite explain well the reason for her to not get the miraculous back,she didn't try to make her understand why it was important to keep identities a secret I don't think Marinette did it with bad intentions or because she disliked Chloe, I think the reason she took so long to tell her was because Chloe seemed so happy being Queen Bee and was slowly but surely improving as a person so she didn't want to take that away from her and make her go back to her old ways. What she didn't realise was that by delaying the inevitable "talk" she was making it harder for Chloe to accept it once she told her
Ladybug just acted like Chloe’s mother. Chloe looks up to ladybug and ladybug dose things with out her so in Chloes mind it’s that ladybug has no use for her and it is basically the same thing with her mother not paying attention to her or needing her and in one of the clips she calls herself useless
I disagree with either being the backstabber. Marinette allowed her personal feelings toward Chloe to blind her and Chloe needed support that she couldn't get others to extend.
I vote Ladybug. Chloe stayed loyal to Ladybug until Ladybug decided to fire her at the last minute, and snub her just to keep Kagami from Adrien. Not to mention she was a major hypocrite.
I'm starting not to like the whole "She revealed her identity" excuse. She lives in a wealthy estate and her father is THE MAYOR. There'd be dozens of officers and the likes looking for her if she went missing, so most people wouldn't bother. Even if she did get hurt or go missing, there's a chance that she'd be in even more danger if she doesn't have a miraculous or something to help her defend herself.
When i think about the fact Chloe's whole redemption arc was trashed because the creator based her on his high school bully ( smh imagine still being bitter about that crap when you're in your 50s ) and has a weird as hell hate boner towards her it just made me realize how ridicolous his writing is and how we definitely need somebody else writing Miraculous. Thomas is too big of a manchild.
Oh yeah, that’s pretty much IT! That guy needs to find something better to do with his life than watching his show that is basically rerun of his past and his own fantasy that never came true. He should really move on. Jeremy Zag should have been in charge.
While I understand it's not Marinette's place to look out for her bully, it's her job as a SUPERHERO to help anyone in need. I've been bullied heavily in my life growing up and I related to Marinette (minus the stalking and other egregious behaviors) but if I had the option to change my bullies for the better and help them be better people, I'd jump at that opportunity in a heartbeat. Can you imagine knowing someone who's caused you grief looks up to you and looks to you to grow as a person? Maybe I'm asking too much, and not everyone is as forgiving, though I don't think you need to forgive someone to do right by them. Trust me, I can be pretty petty at times, but when someone wants to change, when someone's in pain as well, I'd like to help that person and maybe even become friends once they've become better. Wish my bullies were as willing to change.
I've had a similar situation and I'm literally besties with my ex-bully now, all it took was just sone kindness and talking People call Chloe irredeemable, but she's still a child, maybe a spoiled one, but she's more than capable of change
@@bbfox188 That's amazing. I'm happy for you. I wish I could say the same but my bullies never opened up to me in any meaningful way and that's what's different between them and Chloe isn't it? That we know what's wrong and how to fix it? Marinette didn't have to befriend her, but to actively help in making her worse then try to wash her hands of her is disgusting in my opinion.
@@epicsweatstuff5139 She just wanted chloe to be safe its not completely her fault, its both but mostly Mari. Anyways i love both characters chloe and mari. Shes not that bad (ladybug)
I feel like Chloe was an amazing Queen Bee. Being Queen Bee could have been a PERFECT gateway to some character development, especially considering the time she'd spend with Ladybug and Chat. I feel like she was childish, but in a fixable way. Marinette let her hate for Chloe bleed into Ladybug's forgiving nature. It was unfair to Chloe, and could have been settled with a conversation. And to agree with your point of other holders being revealed and how it went, I feel like the Hawkmoth excuse is too weak.
what in the victim blaming kentucky fried fuck are you talking about?? chloe bullied marinette for ages and destroyed her self esteem and sense of self-worth. i'd say her hate of chloe is justified. A VICTIM IS NOT FUCKING RESPONSIBLE FOR REDEEMING THEIR BULLY AND MARI HAS EVERY RIGHT TO REJECT QUEEN BEE
In my opinion both Marinette and Chloe made mistakes, the first to betray was Mari. Sure, Hawk Moth knew Queen Bee's identity and could easily exploit the situation, however the "secret identities" rule only applied to Chloe but not to Kagami. Don't get me wrong I like the character of Kagami, but if in "Loveater" Ladybug had given Chloe one last mission (also because it was her parents who were akumatizated) and the episode would not have ended so tragically, but unfortunately you know that when she sees Adrien, Mari goes into a short circuit .... Chloe had shown her" true self" to Ladybug, it is logical that at "Loveater" she felt betrayed by her idol! I'm still under the illusion that one day Chloe will return as Queen Bee, Zoe can't stand her!
I absolutely agree. I believe that there is fault to be placed on both girls because nobody is right or wrong in these situations. It’s really frustrating to see how season 2 and 3 really contradict themselves as well. I really enjoyed the path they were originally going in season 2 where Marinette was all about giving Chloe a chance and to be Queen Bee in order to help teach her how to be a better person. It wasn’t until season 3 when they started going the whole route of “oh you can’t use a miraculous again because it’s too dangerous now that your identity isn’t secret.” While yes, it is a valid concern, Ladybug really strung along Chloe for far too long before explaining this. And even when she finally does talk to Chloe, they had Chloe be understanding about this only to complete go back on this by the season 3 finale as if the events of Miraculer never happened. It’s really just a shame to know that the reason Chloe was never given the chance to truly be redeemed is because the creator of the show hates his own character so much. They passed up on the chance to have this amazing character who could’ve had a really good character arc had they gave Chloe more of a chance to grow and learn how to become a better person. I’m not saying that Chloe would need to completely do a 180 on her personality, but she could’ve learned how to actually accept other people and show respect towards them rather than being a bully. She doesn’t need to be friends with everyone in her class, but she could at the very least learn that she doesn’t need to be this rich little brat in order to feel accepted and like she has a purpose. In all honestly, they could’ve taken the little story that Zoe got and give it to Chloe. Have Ladybug show her that people don’t love you because of your status or because you’re a superhero but because of who you are as a person and what your actions show to the world. While it can be difficult to change as a person, especially when you’ve been raised a certain way, it’s not impossible to do because there are people in the real world who are constantly changing and growing as people. People aren’t as black and white as the show seems to present it. In fact, I think it’s a really poor message to teach kids that someone who’s “bad” can never change and will always be “bad.” That’s just not how real life works. People are always gonna make mistakes but it’s ultimately what we learn from our mistakes and experiences that help us grow. There’s a reason why characters who go through redemption arcs, such as Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender or Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer from My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, are so popular. Allowing a character to grow and change makes the character feel more real and people often relate to those characters. Just because a show is aimed at a younger demographic doesn’t mean that there can’t be a more complex plot or complex characters that tackle deeper themes and messages. It’s honestly an insult to the children to assume that the only way for them to enjoy content is if it’s “dumbed down” for them. Kids are smarter than a lot of adults give them credit for!! Anyways, I know I wrote a whole essay there. Sorry for going off on such a long tangent 😅
Yes!! I agree on this so much!! They definitely could’ve continued Chloe’s character development instead of shutting it down. People can change but I feel like they aren’t really showing that.
I mean Marinette really was just trying to make sure Chloe was safe and that her family would be too.although, why did she let all of the other users still being able to use their miraculous even though their identities were revealed too? Its because thomas astruc hates chloe so much and loves everyone else and he thinks chloe cannot change and just ruined her redemption arc
That whole thing with Marinette being ObSsEsSeD with Adrikins is the only reason for her and many others' downfall. Chloe just wanted to show her mother she's exceptional, that's why she became queen bee at the first place, I don't think she had any need to be queen bee otherwise. But yes when Ladybug started giving Chloe the miraculous again and again even though she knew that her identity wasn't a secret, she was getting used to it, I mean who wouldn't like to be a superhero? But when she's tired of ''using'' her, she stops giving her the miraculous. And BOOM! We get Miracle queen.
From a writing perspective, definitely Marinette. Remember, Marinette always chooses Miraculous holders who's closest to the akumatized victim. Literally both of Chloe's parents were the victims, yet Marinette chose Kagami because Kagami and Adrien were sharing a moment and Marinette can't stand that. And this plays right into Hawk Moth's hands as he uses Chloe's frustration and desperation to akumatize her again. Marinette should know how Chloe feels about this whole ordeal, but chooses to neglect her as a teammate.
I’m pretty sure Ladybug and Cat Noir weren’t in the scenes where Miracle Queen forced everyone to reveal their identities, however it was pretty obvious and I’m surprised they haven’t figured it out. After style queen LITERALLY targeted all of the Miraculous holders in Optigami and the events that happened in Sentibubbler, I’m surprised they couldn’t have taken a hint. It is quite hypocritical of Ladybug, however miraculous characters act stupid occasionally. Some people and Thomas Astruc will probably hate me for this
I don’t know if Cat Noir is aware of it but I do believe that it was stated in the show that Ladybug is aware that Hawkmoth/Shadow Moth/Monarch (whatever) knows the identity of some of the heroes. There’s actually a line addressing that in both of the episodes you’ve mentioned. In Optigami when Rena Rouge and Senti-Caparace return the miraculouses to Ladybug and she figured out that Nino was a sentimonster she says (this is the actual quote from the episode), “We're gonna have to be a lot more careful now. Shadow Moth knows the identities of some of the people I have given a miraculous and apparently he decided to use this information.” In Sentibubbler, whenever Marinette and Alya were talking in her bedroom, Marinette says (another quote from the episode), “We know that Shadow Moth has identified some of the holders. He knows you've been Rena Rouge! What if he found out I left the Miraculous with you? He could steal it from you!” This therefore confirms that Ladybug is in fact aware that Hawkmoth/Shadow Moth/Monarch knows who some of the holders are and is choosing to contradict the earlier rules about not being able to use a miraculous if your identity is found out.
@@zsand0123 I'm pretty sure the main reason she keeps giving the miraculous to the same people is that she knows them and has seen them as worthy miraculous holders (idk why but she has) and is maybe worried if she gave them to someone else they'd mess up or she'd have another Cat Walker moment also she usually keeps the miraculous on her so what's the harm anyway (thats what I imagine goes through her mind anyway, OI THOMAS [or anyone else who works on the show] IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE A CANON REASON WHY SO WE [THE FANDOM] DON'T HAVE TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR YOUR BS WRITING)
@@ToriGachaGirl I understand what you’re saying and I agree, the show should at least give better reasons for it’s bad writing. The thing with this reasoning is that the show literally contradicts its own writing when they introduced the ability to unify miraculouses. They make Marinette seem like this all powerful being who’s always right and can handle anything including wearing several miraculouses, so what’s the point of even having other heroes if Ladybug can just do it all herself? We all know that it’s because the show wants to sell more merchandise, but from a logical standpoint, there really isn’t a purpose for having all these other heroes. Even though I love the designs for some of these heroes, all they ever really do is act like Ladybug’s puppets who always do exactly what she tells them to do and never questions it or gets to actually input their own ideas and suggestions (except for Alya). That’s not what a team is. That’s one person just bossing everyone else around. Since the show always just tells us rather than showing us, there’s really no reason to believe that Ladybug couldn’t have just easily done everything herself by unifying her miraculouses with the others. In fact, the show even proves this in the season 4 finale, because Ladybug literally got herself into this whole mess by trusting a miraculous to someone who shouldn’t have been trusted. The whole reasoning of “oh I’m affected by risk and need someone else who isn’t affected” is just bs too, because when Ladybug literally gave the miraculous to Felix, she was right there beside him telling him exactly what to do the entire time. If she knew what needed to be done, why the heck didn’t she just unify the dog miraculous herself and go do it?! The show never gives us an active and compelling reason to believe that there’s a reason why Ladybug actually needs a whole team to give miraculouses to. Maybe if the show actually showed Marinette having some sort of after effect when unifying a miraculous, there would be more of a reason for us to believe that it’s better to give miraculouses out to the other holders to use. We’ve seen time and time again that Ladybug can just unify miraculouses whenever she wants and nothing bad ever really happens to her, so it really just makes the show make even less sense than it already does. It’s quite a shame to see all this potential wasted as well. It’s a shame that Cat Noir always seems to be wasted potential as well because if Ladybug was so concerned about needing other miraculouses but felt like she couldn’t do it all on her own, why not give some to Cat Noir to unify? That’s the whole purpose of why she had a partner to begin with. Ugh this show truly is a headache istg 🤦♂️😂
@@zsand0123 I mean logicly speaking can you really do it all yourself we've seen how Marinette is she'd go mad I think it just depends on the situation? But imo at least in Risk she probably should have Unified the Dog and Ladybug miraculous I'm acctully pretty sure because she was under risk was why she chose not to that time but we'll never know
@@ToriGachaGirl yes, but with the way the show sets it up, it always just feels like Marinette is always the one doing mostly everything and always calling the shots. If we actually got to see the other heroes being real characters with their own ideas and suggestions for saving the day, it would make it more reasonable to understand why Ladybug feels like she needs a team. However, the show always presents Marinette as the one doing everything herself and always coming up with the plan, so if that were the case, why does she need all these other people if she already knows what to do and what powers are needed. I completely understand what you’re saying and to a certain extent, I agree but at the same time, the show logic behind this all really doesn’t make a lot of sense when you really think about it
I really do agree with you, and I do think it’s mostly Ladybugs fault but partly Chloe’s but also I think the people you created the show did not think about how others could use it and she could not
I honestly feel like that was just a dislike from the creators as well. Marinette wasn’t nice to Chloé either which was a problem since the beginning of the series, this reason was one of the few of why I stopped interacting with MLB overall. When they brought Zoé into the series they just replaced Chloé, which was complete bias of the creators part. Characters in a series need to have a good character development in order to gain a better storyline and plot, that definitely had happened when Queen Bee was apart. Showing the Marinette was developing, and Chloé much more, too! But instead they completely shut that idea down when they brought Zoé into the series. Idk maybe I took that to far, just kinda needed to say that for the last like year- 💀💀
Marinette is a grudgeholder against Chloe. If she hadn't been holding grudges, then Chloe would be given a second chance and she would have grown to be a great person. Change takes time, time she was never given due being fucked over by bad writing and Marinette refusing to trust Chloe. By denying them a second chance, you in tuen create more enemies.
Definetly agree with you. I'm not saying Chloe has no fault but Marinette is not innocent as well. And I hate that most miraculous fans are ignoring the fact that marinette has fault too. Like she chose the wrong miraculouse in miracle queen. Most fan says Marinette is in love with Adrien she just made a mistake. Okey it's Okey everyone can make a mistake. But almost nobody try to understand Chloe. Like Marinette is just a child still learns Chloe is too. Idk if anyone notice that but Chloe has no one around her to be a role model. Like her mother is evil, rude and we don't even know she does love her daughter. And the other hand Andre he is a politician how can he be a good person. Chloe told herself Andre take people's informations and uses in elections. It was just Adrien the only good person in her life. And Adrien didn't help much. Like he can't even leave his house. So I can understand chloe' betray. Not saying she did a good thing.
let's be real, season 1, 2, and 3 marinette only give miraculouses to people she likes. in those seasons as a superhero she let the way she feels about people get in the way of what she should do for the greater good if she doesn't like someone that technically makes them a bad person in her book and therefore they don't deserve a miraculous, throughout the show marinette handout the miraculouses like candy to her classmates and most of them are her friends or people she have hangout with enough to like them, and that is very irresponsible and immature. and that is what played a huge part in Chloe becoming "evil" we all know ladybug's biggest fan was Chloe, she looked up to ladybug and wanted to be like her, she was OBSESSED with ladybug. ladybug could've played a huge role in Chloe becoming a better person but again she let her feelings about Chloe get in the way if you watch the episodes again you can see how ladybug is trying to be nice and give Chloe a chance but you can see in her actions that she doesn't trust Chloe and is not comfortable with having her on the team, if I remember correctly, Chloe waited on her balcony for ladybug to bring her the miraculous However she never showed up, we saw ladybug swing by multiple times yet she didn't even acknowledge Chloe not because she didn't see her but because she just didn't need Chloe's HELP, Chloe got frustrated, she tried everything to get ladybug's attention she even did that embarrassing tiptoe thing Lila suggested, overall ladybug just didn't like Chloe all that much and Chloe herself soon realized that and that is the main reason she joined hawkmoth. now Fast forward to the new season when Zoe was introduced, when marinette met Zoe she instantly liked her and the two became friends real quick, and then the very next episode she gives Zoe a miraculous.... like WHAT?! what sense does that make? Chloe kissed ladybug's ass because she so badly wanted to become a superhero but ladybug didn't trust her which is understandable because after all Chloe is her bully, but the moment she give Zoe a miraculous I realized then that Ladybug's problem was never trust issues it was her biased opinions on people, if it was trust issues she would've never given Zoe something this important which is a miraculous, keep in mind Zoe was a complete stranger she could've been secretly evil for all we know.
the writers: "if hawkmoth knows your identity, you cant get a miraculous" also the writers: hey btw alix is bunnyx! she cant come to school anymore bcs shes a superhero :- )
I completely agree with this statement, yes Chloe/Queen Bee wasn’t the nicest person nor did she respect anyone, but Marinette/Ladybug was no better in this scenario
chloe used to / still is relentlessly bullying marinette. i understand why she would not want to give her a miraculous for that exact reason. i mean if i was marinette, i would never have let chloe become queen bee in the first place. i would have taken the miraculous from her and never have given it back at any point. but i guess marinette sees the good in people, but when i saw chloe’s continuous bullying towards ladybug’s civilian self, i found it hard not to relate to marinette or understand her actions. she didn’t know whether she could trust chloe, because chloe was always nice to her as ladybug, but never as marinette. but that’s just my opinion.
THE FACT that she needed a long time to trust alya with a miraculous but zoe after one day of "knowing the real zoe" is way beyond wrong andstupid of her especially with being a guardian
I honestly feel like Chloe was just written off by the director cuz he simply didn’t like her. She could’ve have a redemption arc and I can definitely see marinette having a part in that, but we’ll never know. I do think sometimes marinette could’ve been the bigger person, she knew Chloe admired ladybug and could’ve used that to inspire her. Or she could’ve just gave her a different miraculous entirely. I mean she was gonna give alya a different miraculous than the fox, why not Chloe?
Another annoying thing is how the writer will go to any length to joke on Chloe and make her seem like she can never be redeemed, even to the point of contradicting previous parts of the show. An example of this is in Malediktator when Chloe impersonated Ladybug and Alya said “It’s obvious that’s not the real Ladybug. You didn’t even match the hair color.” 🤨 Says the moron who thought Chloe was Ladybug in Lady Wifi despite the fact that Chloe still didn’t change her hair color. 🤦♂️ The identity thing is another contradiction aswell.
@Fisayo Ajisafe I’m just saying, if you’re gonna make a character go on an irredeemable path, at least have it make sense and not go against what previously happened in the show.
@Fisayo Ajisafe You're comment ignores season 2. The fact that no one liked her, and literally celebrated her leaving, was a major reason Chloe wanted to change. It's not about everyone needing a redemption arc but how one was blatantly ignored in later seasons.
@@CelticVictory she did not change. She felt hated and called herself "useless" when she had to fix her usual elitism and arrogance, rather than become "useful". She missed the point for all the season and kept belittling people
I agree really because queen bee was a great miraculous holder, and miraculous ladybug/marinette even said it herself! “Yes. Im sure, tiki make me a better marinette and i think it’ll make her a better chloe too.” And she was right. Chloe did change to become a little more nice. She was also one of the best miraculous holders there was. That’s all i gotta say now here’s my theory for season 5: i think since shadow moth (whatever his new name is-) since he has all the miraculous well, he might as well give the bee miraculous back to chloe, and from there chloe might be really bad or good to impress her mom again, and yeah thats my theory. Comment i agree if you agree with me.
let's blame it on audrey tbh lol.. if she was a good mother to chloe, chloe would've grown up to be a good person too i mean she is good, somehow but still she probably wouldn't bully marinette and ladybug would've let her keep her miraculous
If Ladybug would’ve given the bee miraculous to Chloe rather than to kagami’s dragon then Hawk Moth wouldn’t be able to bribe Chloe with the bee in that one ep where he found Fu and taken the miraculous thing
I think Chloe wanted to be revealed beacause she wanted to be approved she wanted more friends because she would be a superhero and I feel bad for her, the only reason she lost the miraculous was that Marinette didn’t like Chloe. I liked Chloe ngl as she shows she has a nice side she’s only horrible bc she wants her mother’s approval.
Ur literally right, and btw in episode Ephemeral, if there wasnt Sass, they would ruin everything with revealing their identities Such a ridiculous thing, utterly ridiculous She rlly deserves better
I just noticed all the marinette’s classmates will have a miraculous next season except for Chloe since some of know who will be the next hawkmoth. Next season well dang Chloe will just keep on suffering at the this rate. I feel bat for Chloe at this point.
A much better direction for this dynamic is to have Marinette aka Ladybug let Chloe work under her and TEACH HER TO BE A BETTER PERSON!!!!! 🙄 Chloe changing over time would have been the easiest and better way for the show over all instead of the weird way they chose to do your story that didn’t make sense in the end anyway. Also Zoe as a character could have been used to show Chloe’s progress instead of making Zoe a hero making the show flow better.
cause all I'm saying is if Adrien AND Alya can change the way their costume looks like AND change their name *(that being Cat Walker an Reyna Fugitive)* then I believe that Chloe could've done the same. This would've help with her character development. Marinette really is a hypocrite 😐Just imagine how it would feel to be told that this is for your safety because your secret identity is out, but then that same person who told you that still uses everyone else when they're identities were also revealed 🤨It literally makes no sense. Also to avoid all problems why not just unify with the miraculous you need and then get the job done 🙂 cause now you're just bring a lot of unprofessional teens into this, like they don't even know what they're doing 😐 Real smart LB 😒You could've also let Chat unify with the other miraculous to avoid letting your literal FRIENDS in danger *which they have btw* 😒At this point I'm just the biggest Marinette/ LB anti cause this is just stupid 😮💨Her logic is so flawed that I want to sit down with Thomas and ta;l about how much he fucked up in the writing department 🙃
Honestly i respect your opinion but I think it’s mainly Chloe betrayed ladybug because in one of the episodes ladybug told her that she won’t be available to give the bee miracles back to Chloe but Chloe didn’t listen even though ladybug gave her a reason why and but chloe kept trying to get it back even though ladybug told her she wouldn’t be available to give it back And that’s all I can say but anyhow I respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine 🙃
Well ladybug told Chloe way to late that she wouldn’t be able to be queen bee again she never should have given it back to her after queen wasp also the reason why is stupid and ladybug doesn’t actually believe in the identity rule clearly. She gives everyone else there miraculous even tho their identities where revealed aka ladybug is a hypocrite
@@veronicaalberti1385 you mean why don't people like some new yorkian girl that appeared out of nowhere in the middle of the season and clearly doesn't know shit going on in Paris?
I really liked Chloe as Queen Bee. She was a good character in season 2, too bad they destroyed her character. The Ryuko situation was stupid, I hated her reason for picking Kagami that day. Chloe was right, it was her parents and she would be useful, especially since HawkMoth akumatized her parents only to get Chloé’s negative attention. But to be honest Ladybug had no business giving Chloé the miraculous in season 4. Cause the holders identities were revealed AFTER Chloé betrayed Ladybug. In season 4 Chloé had already betrayed Ladybug and got akumatized once again in Queen Banana while being a horrible person to her sister, to Marinette and their whole class. I wish they didn’t turn Chloé so bad in s3 and s4. I wish she stayed as Queen Bee and deceloped as a character.
At the end of the day, this is the fault of the show writers. This was a really good arc that they decided to ruin last minute because of Thomas Astruc and they introduced character inconsistencies for both Chloe and Marinette in order to make reasons for why Chloe wasn't deserving of the miraculous anymore. They had to go against the organic flow of the show to take the miraculous away from Chloe and I don't think it's either of the characters fault, because they were boht acting out of character. Show writers just didn't know what to do with the show by that point
I WISH THERE WAS A REMAKE OF MIRACULOUS SO THEY HAVE A STORY THAT MAKES SENSE, GOOD CHARACTER DESIGNS, AND BETTER WRITTEN CHARACTERS I LIKE MARINETTE BUT THEY DID HER DIRTY WHEN SHE TOOK CHLOE’S MIRACULOUS 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Maybe mari is stupid like why did she give zoe the bee miraculous ladybug could habe just kept unifying in fact she never had to give anyone a miraculous we learnt in the ep when she was multimouse she could unfy there was no need for rena,carapace,vesperia,queen bee, pagasus,pigella there was just no need for them
Honestly, you’re absolutely right. While unifying is a cool concept and allows for Ladybug to get new outfits, it really does make the other heroes seem kinda useless. I mean in all honestly, we know that the other heroes are only really there to be Ladybug’s puppets and so the show can sell more merchandise. None of the heroes ever really do or say anything much aside from following Ladybug’s commands. The fact that the show has made Marinette out to be this super smart and powerful girl who can handle unifying several miraculouses, it really doesn’t make sense as to why she feels the need to hand out miraculouses to other holders when she can really do it all on her own. I feel like if they had introduced more stakes in unifying miraculouses and we actually got to the see the repercussions of unifying even for Marinette, it would help explain why it’s better to actually have other holders as opposed to just having Ladybug and Cat Noir unifying miraculouses. Maybe unifying miraculouses could’ve had similar consequences to using a broken miraculous in that it severely weakens the user if done too often. That could also explain why Gabriel would eventually have to pass the torch onto another person because maybe he isn’t aware or doesn’t care about the consequences and eventually becomes too weak after unifying the butterfly and peacock so often. That would also explain why Ladybug only unifies miraculouses in dire situations and doesn’t stay unified for long. This stuff literally writes itself. This show has so much potential but it keeps being wasted!!! Just because it’s a kid’s show doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be good or doesn’t need to make sense!! Quite frankly, the kids deserve better and it’s honestly an insult to assume that they wouldn’t pick up on or notice these things. Sorry, I didn’t mean to go off on a tangent there 😅 You’re absolutely right though. With the way the show is currently set up, it really makes no sense why Ladybug even needs to give out miraculouses at all. In fact, the entirety of the season 4 finale could’ve been solved had Marinette just used the dog miraculous herself. Even if she was affected by Risk (which is a stupid reason), she seemed to know exactly what needed to be done so idk why she couldn’t have just done it herself. Oh this show can give me a headache sometimes lmao 🤦♂️
Chloe isn’t an bad person. For awhile she genuinely wanted to change and being queen bee gave her more purpose. She was just angry and hurt by marinette inability to handle thing better with her. That may not be an excuse for what she did but I can see why she let emotion cloud her judgement. when your own hero gave up on u then what are u supposed to do after that. Hopefully zoe can be the person that will always be there for chloe when everyone else gave up on her
@MyLittlePonyEpisodes I mean considering who her mom is and a father who enables her bad behavior, is there any wonder how she turned out that? The truth is that she never had anyone that could give her what she really need, a normal family. Zoe might be the closest person that Chloe has of normal
Shame they really have destroyed Chloe.. we need some kind of episode or another arc about her family and herself to meet some sort of resolve.. only way to fix this now if I can imagine is if Chloe goes full out of control and have her mother opening her eyes and realise she made Chloe into a monster and have a heart to heart. Idk.. I just feel like a lot of things in the show is so messy and I wish Chloe had more time to show character Development. Like how we wanna see more Serena.
I just want to acknowledge the fact that Chloe held almost all of the miraculouses and (I think) didn't get hurt by it, the same way Marinette did (she wasn't even using them all with multi mouse when she had a dizzy spell or whatever).
Thank you very much for this video which crystallizes exactly the feeling I had during the last part of season three on Kagami's choice. If following Marinette's logic all the former holders who had their identity revealed would not have not to receive miraculous again as for Alya and Nino who are nevertheless friends of Marinette, but not only does she continue to call on her, which would mean that their safety does not even concern Marinette and fortunately that Gabriel is the worst villain in anime history!
I ADORED Chloe being Queen Bee idk it just fits her but i do understand the whole identity thing, imo Chloe should've stayed Queen Bee cause she could fight off the akumas trying to get her but Hawkmoth could easily use her family against her which is such a d*ck move but whatever Edit: Girl you're making me h8 Mari lol
3:54 That happened in Heart Hunter in Season Three. Honestly, I gotta agree with Chloe, Marinette’s choice to not pick her to help her with Heart Hunter was her fault because her reason for not picking her was because her identity was known by everyone in Paris but the problem is that it’s her parents who were akumatized and it would make sense to pick Chloe and it wouldn’t be the biggest deal if she picked both Kagami and Chloe because it would make the job even easier for them.
Yeah your right they are both backstabbers but i think if ladybug dont backstab chloe then the identitis will not be reveled (RenaRouge, Pegasus,...) sorry for bad english
It was not fair that ladybug took away the bee miraculous to chloe it could have helped chloe become a better person so ladybug betrayed chloe I mean why couldn't queen bee change her outfit like cat walker or go into hiding like rena rouge did as rena furtive and plus the reason she betrayed the heroes at the end of season 3 is because of ladybug she didn't give her her miraculous so ladybug turned chloe into a villain she destroyed chloe's redemption so I blame ladybug
In my opinion Both, because Ladybug did tell her before miracle queen in miracular that she may never be Queen bee again, but Chloe didn't listen and got her hopes up. but Ladybug should have told her in heart hunter, Ladybug did have regret in heart hunter when she went to get the Dragon Miraculous she had a flashback to when chloe was telling her she has to help
The fact that Chloe revealed her identity to be loved by her mother is just... dark... and also Marinette only caring about Chloe leaving Paris because Adrien does...
hey mariah! i wanna say that i really like the commentary videos uve made like this one :) could u make a video about your thoughts on marinette? i feel like many of us have mixed feelings about her and id love to know your opinion
My opinion on this is that Marinette probably would've given the bee miraculous back to Chloe if she hadn't teamed up with Hawk Moth and try to take all the miraculous but I believe that giving the miraculous to Chloe's "half of a sister" is cruel.
Ladybug is the backstabber because if she transformed back and went to master fu and grabbed the bee miraculous then everything would be fine like I mean it's chloe parents not kagami and she betrayed master fu so yeah she made 2 big mistakes
I agree with the part where halk moth knows alot of superheroes identities like Rena rouge, carapace, viperion, pegaseus,ryokuo and more. But ladybug still gave alya the miraculous too keep just because she's her best friend. She even told her identity. The only reason she didn't give chloe the mi aculous is because she didn't like her. But I also understand marrinette because chloe used to bully her. But the miraculous was helping her change and become a better person. But if marrinette told chloe that she wasn't going to get the miraculous back right after the train indcident none of this would have happened.
I think the miracoulous that most suits u is probably the bee❤❤❤❤ u love all the bee holders (exept vesperia the worst bee holder ever) And btw PERFECT VIDEO❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊
Just to say that in the episode sentibubbler of season 4 in Marinette's dream marinette realise she is an hypocrite when chloe says "you must keep your identity a secret blablabla,I would have made a much better Ladybug". And also just to say it's true that the goal of Chloe's arc could have been that not everyone can change but when you see season 2 and season 3 it's look like we didn't had the same writers for theses seasons. I don' think it's bad writing just that it is akward writing that's all. Maybe the arc of Chloe was about her familly and not about a redemption arc because we see her acting the same after Style Queen ,Queen Wasp and Malediktator(yes I count Malediktator in it because it feel more like a trilogie about Chloe's familly)and for the identity thing maybe Ladybug changed the rules after becoming the guardian of the miracle box explaining why the others heroes who got they're identity discover still got they're miraculous(she could have changed the rules into if Monach and not the population know you identity you can still remains be a hero unless you become recless it or you can still remains be a hero as long as you don't betray the hero team explainig why Ryoko is still in the hero team).
