Who Was Vecna? | Vecna: Eve of Ruin | D&D 

That’s gold.

Do you read Sutter Cane?

@@DavidsonMoslak what’s that?

@@mattbeutner6123 At the Mouth of Madness

Indeed

Not well, Jim!

Why is Vecna

He is just misunderstood and means well.....honest he does.

Well. He aint scared. He's fine, he's strategizing.

when is Vecna

... They whitewashed a lich?

You think these people care about lore?

@@Gangrel442003 they certainly didn't tell any in this video about "Who Was Vecna?"

Lore consistency seems to be irrelevant or even despised in 2024

@@Kross415 Most definitely the latter...

🧤

Lol

If no one knows what the tattoo means it doesn't matter if they have it but on the other hand them having it can lead to others figuring out what the tattoo symbolizes.

That was my first thought as well. Quite stupid.

If only someone were to invent some sort of covering for our hands! I would call such things gee-loves!

The Hand of Kwll and Eye of Rhynn needs more main stream recognition

The 3 gorgon sisters.

As someone who hopped on during 5e, I'm constantly upset there isn't more information on characters and settings in the books that we get. I have to go on wiki deep dives or assume and infer with what I have (which, admittedly, helps me be creative) but it'd be nice to learn more about these worlds, their heroes, Villains, and histories.

For me there are two aspects to this problem... One is 5e reworking well-known characters (such as Vecna), with decades of lore behind them, in ways that completely ignore all the existing history (eg Iggwilv -- the Tasha reveal in EttRoG is a substantial change, but builds on what's already there, similarly for the other development of her by Paizo around the same time; in contrast the WBtW & TCoE rework the character so radically that essentially everything is lost except the name -- but that's what matters here, it's effectively a new character that they've just attached a recognisable proper noun to); The other is the setting lore, which (IMO) is far more impactful than any given character -- that 5e effectively ignores Greyhawk (bar looting it for proper nouns and the occasional sprinkling of flavour) is wasteful & annoying but (unfortunately) understandable, though they must recognise that doing so undermines key parts of the lore that they do want to preserve. At least the Greyhawk Grognards just get ignored! Other settings have had far more hamfisted updates in 5e. However, in some ways the setting that's suffered the most seems to be the FR, which 5e goes through superficial motions of supporting while not doing anything actually substantive If a new player (or even an established player) wants to dive into the FR where should they look? SCAG? There's no 5e FRCS; should people just rely on Google & wikis rather than any primary source? If you want a comprehensive FR setting newcomers are dependent on 15-year-old PDFs of 3e books. It's something I really don't understand, I was baffled when they released SCAG (and I expected it to be soon followed by a proper campaign sourcebook), a proper 5e FRCS should surely have been one of the easiest & most obvious releases, especially given the threat Wizards faced at the time from Paizo/Pathfinder

Well said, it is for these reason and more I stand firmly on 3.5. Atleastbthe resources are plentiful to dig into history and leave appropriate clues to what was and will be

Yeah, going from Van Richten's guide to 2e Ravenloft was very confusing.

Because these rewrites are not done for the old fans, they're done for a "new audience"

It’s not very chad of him to behave this way

He did not learn from Kauss

Feel old yet? 😂

Everything you're saying is factually correct, but that's definitely not what Todd meant. He was referencing how the initial, relatively sparse material regarding Vecna eventually came to be part of a blockbuster show on one of the titans of streaming, and how no one could have seen that happening, even after all of the material you mentioned.

They were just pointing out how he’s been adapted and has changed culturally. So from what started as just some dudes eye and hand eventually became a huge part of a cultural icon

Evil Gale, kinda

Or even Vance.

Almost like it's an anagram of the last name of famed author Jack Vance

Pretty funny how you said something that is really similar to actual lore

For eve of ruin? You can preorder that book on most sites already xD

I only think it doesnt make sense for him to be white while his canon ethnicity, the Flan and thr Ur-Flan, are described as having coppery skin

CR mfs be like

No. Because Vecna was a God long before critical role.

That was Matt Mercer’s version of Vecna, the plotpoint of Vecna ascending to godhood is from older sourcebooks, basically some of his most famous appearances.

Nope, Vecna Ascended way back in I wanna say 2nd Edition, he then confronted the Lady of Pain later, and is one of the few entities that survived that encounter in Sigil

How so? What makes you think that, non of the typical signs of ai afe shown

Wizards of the Coast stands by our statement on AI, which can be found here: www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1642-updated-statement-on-ai

I agree that it shares a similar style to what AI art typically has, although I don't see anything that absolutely confirms that it is AI. The thing that makes me suspicious is the specific lighting style that is seen in most AI generated images, same with the specific way both the hair and facial hair of the two is rendered. But the hands look fine, the stuff in the bowl and on the plate are slightly ambiguous in appearance but still within the realm of what a human would do, and those maps on the tables would be an absolute mess if AI generated those. If this is AI generated, then it's either extremely well trained or they spent a bunch of time after the fact altering it to get rid of the AI screw ups. I think it's more likely that this artist's style just happens to be very similar to what AI typically generates, and that the similarity is just an unfortunate coincidence.

Lol, yes. They say multiple times throughout the video that a great part of Vecna as a villain is that he is just simply evil and he knows it. Giving us glimpses into his past isn't gonna change that, don't worry.

Nothing they said indicates they are gonna try and humanize Vecna. That's just your interpretation. So, if you don't like the idea, don't interpret it that way.

@LordZeebee I watched it the art wasn't a good first impression

@@anthonyambrose7830 Changing your entire perspective of someone because of one picture from their background is a pretty shallow and surface level perspective.

@benjaminfrench3513 what?

It's more likely that they no longer make a product that appeals to you personally or that you're no longer representative of "the majority of people that buy their products". And that's okay. There are older editions and a ton of other games. You can move on.

​​​​I agree and I feel these interviews give me a decent idea if the next release might be something I want to play with. I don't feel obligated to buy the books I don't think I'll use, just because I really enjoy playing D&D. I mean, adventures take a lot of sessions to run and at maybe a session a month most adventures lasts a long time! I mean, I don't buy every game from every game developer I like. I only have so much time, so why buy things I don't have time to enjoy, or that don't seem to fit with my group of players? This though, this interests me greatly. I was already thinking about using Vecna in the endgame. 🤔

Now you know that about yourself, stop watching/listening. If the creators colour your opinion on the product and you don't want that, don't engage with the creators.

I don’t know if it has to be one or the other. The reason new products don’t appeal to old fans is because 5th edition was, from the very beginning, an attempt to curtail WotC’s straight dive towards bankruptcy after the mess of 4th edition. There is no more of the spirit that previously appealed to people because it’s been a cash grab, and, unfortunately, that cash grab was so successful thanks to the likes of Critical Role and Stranger Things that they’ve had no need to pivot away from their flagrant corporatization of the game. D&D has become a brand, not unlike, as mentioned, Disney. Brands take successful, heartfelt art and turn them into products whose only measure of quality is how much money they rake in. Time moves on, though, and people forget. I got into the game with 5th edition, like most people, and for the longest time, 5th edition was all I cared about, because that’s what 5th edition wants to teach you - that lore restricts, that D&D’s history never happened, etc. - because, again, it was built in the aftermath of a terrible 4th edition. Of course they don’t want people to know what came before! I’m not saying 5th edition is a bad game, or that the people doing the nitty gritty work are monsters, and I’ll likely still buy Eve of Ruin someday. But it isn’t made for fans of D&D because there were none left after 4th edition, it’s made for fans of other things that brought them into the fold. Why else mention Stranger Things, a totally distinct piece of media which reduces D&D into a dated product of its time and a naming convention for antagonists who have nothing to do with the original users of those names? Why else would they make 5.5th edition? The game isn’t fundamentally flawed, but there’s been such a paradigm shift in why they make the game: to sell more products and make more money. That’s why there’s so much talk in the TTRPG scene begging people to try other games. D&D wants to sell itself as the only one there is, because none of the entirely distinct pieces of free advertisement that get people into it acknowledge any other. WotC and Hasbro have made it into a monopoly, just as Disney has by siphoning into itself such massive names as Star Wars and Marvel. People don’t buy these products for the material itself anymore. They watch the movie because it’s the latest Marvel movie, and they get the book because it’s D&D, and they’ve already sunk so much time and money into both of those things that leaving now would feel a waste. That was a longer rant than intended, but that’s my opinion, at least: they no longer do it for the art, they do it for the money.

@@harryprongs1072this rant also feels out of touch, ironically. Very single-perspective when you think you’re speaking for the masses.

He's the perfect BBEG. He knows everything the DM knows, his motivation is incredibly straightforward, and he has multiple artifacts that can be peppered into any story as MacGuffins to start his plotline.

Not every villain needs to have an indepth backstory, or a reasoning for being evil. Sometimes people just want the Bad Guy to be just that a Bad Guy, and that is why Vecna is perfect for this.

@@HallowedKeeper_ its not just the backstort. He also has no personality or character. The weird thing is, the whole war with Kas should be interesting but its not because its never been explored and we have no idea what happened or even their relationship.

Yeah I think Kas is pretty unutilized, I'm running Vecna lives and am pretty disappointed at how little he appears. Seems like he has more of a role in Vecna reborn though since he also has a domain of dread.