Who Were the Philistines?: Episode 4 

For the dog-eating study, see Justin Lev-Tov, ann Killebrew, Haskel Greenfield, Annie Brown, "Puppy Sacrifice and Cynophagy from Early Philistine Tel Miqne-Ekron Contextualized."

You were predestined to be different(Romans 8:29). HALLELUYAH!(PRAISE YE YAH!)

@@theexile1155 do you just copy and paste this comment everywhere?

We still in iron age?

@@noliyoshida7486 wrong we are in the corona age now 😃😢😜😆

Philisteens? Or Philistines? 7 8 neen? Or 7 8 nine?

@@tmc3567 a long I

You were predestined to be different(Romans 8:29). HALLELUYAH!(PRAISE YE YAH!)

That would be even scarier.

Very spooky

So... what would chair-lady worshippers look like?

Tusci is the latin name for the etruscans, not the native ethnonym. they called themselves Rasna, or (pre-syncope) Rasenna. latin not appearing till the mid first millenium, it is hard to try to link an ethnonym from a thousand years earlier with that name, also the etruscans are an iron age culture, again, too late for the situation this list comes from, same goes for the osci.

@@technelligence What about the others?

@@darktyrannosaurus22 well, as the video explains, the peleset are most likely the philistines, on the other three I'd agree with your ideas

It certainly is interesting how the Egyptian inscription talks about them making "a conspiracy in their islands". I think a connection with the Pelasgians - whose name has no established etymology, suggesting to me it may be related to the native ethnonym - is certainly possible.

@@thealmightyaku-4153 I don´t think you can use the translated word of conspiracy in a over 3000 year old text in the same way as we use it today. To conspire basically means that 2 or more parties get together to do something, often to the harm of another party. And the parties can be people from in or outside the nation.

That's a good insight.

They ate dogs so it's possible

Anyone for a cheese dog sandwich

Do you know that Philadelphia used to have a dirty meaning in ancient times? It was named after Ptolemy II Philadelphos of Egypt. Well, Phil = love, adelphos = sibling. So, Ptolemy who loves his siblings. Unfortunate given that his second wife was his sister Arsinoe.

🤓

Yes, link doesn't match the video

And Samson would frequently head over to Philistine territory, joking and hanging out with them.

Nice point noting ancient multiculturalism. Whoever the Sea Peoples were, they were certainly multicultural. Indeed the most influential political force in the Eastern Med. region was this highly diverse alliance. This flies in the face of the modern narratives that say the the various people of the 'Middle East' region kept to their own cultural/religions groups and thus conflict between such insular groups is inevitable. The region and its people have always been multicultural.

it's not likely that the Bible authors cared about any foreigners' oaths to Pharaoh, or held the breaking of such oath against the Philistines.

I watched half of their video on Eden and I could not get through it; they really seemed to be putting the cart before the horse with some justifications, like taking the *prehistoric* river that _maybe_ resembles one of the two rivers we don't know of and making the jump to citing someone saying "wow isn't it fascinating that the Israelites knew about this river from ten thousand years before their inception"

@@friedkeenan Australian aboriginals knew of an island group north of Australia that sunk twelve thousand years ago, this knowledge was entirely preserved in oral traditions. It's not at all unreasonable to assume that ancient Israelites did the same and kept ancient events in their cultural and religious memory

@@mikealpha4169 First of all, could you link a source for your claim or direct me to where I could find one? Some searches yielded nothing. Second of all, it is far more of a stretch to say that the Israelites remembered a river that was only above water ~10 thousand years before our earliest known _mention_ of the Israelites *and* that they were the only ones in the region to remember the river.

Inspiring philosophy is not a historian nor an archeologist but a Christian apologist who is convinced that the Bible is to a large degree historically accurate. His tagline is “Helping You Grow Your Faith”. Not someone I would go to for unbiased history.

Also I do wonder how ba'al (or ashera) would've been perceived by archeologists if we didn't have other evidence (which we don't with the philistines), I mean ba'al and dagon are both from the ugaritic pantheon which had a huge influence on the region of canaan (dagon was actually slightly more important than ba'al by that time). the israelites worshipped ba'al to a degree that you might call him a main deity at times, as we see both with biblical accounts.and archeology, why a similar thing but with dagon instead of ba'al couldn't have happened with some of the philistines, which would maybe also explain some of the rivalry. Also the bible doesn't call dagon the national deity of the philistines, just the patron of ashdod and a popular deity in gaza. A couple of more things prof. aren maeir and gunnar lehman (expert on the sea people) maintain that limited conflict indeed happen around the time of saul and before. Just to remind everyone clear open conflict with the philistines in the bible was only at the time of saul and before afterwards the relationship indeed seem cordial if cold. the israelites in the bible seem to have viewed them as invaders, that at times even actively controlled and oppressed them, again before the time of david and even saul (a thing that seem to be supported by archeology to a certain extent). There was cultural exchange, and trade, but there seem to also be a clear delineation between the two cultures. Also with regards to trade. nations at that time even if not the best of friends (and there are more than a couple of examples for this) traded all over the place, and there is nothing in the bible to suggest otherwise, actually on the contrary.

Duh? Yes. You saying that it is the literal word of God as given to Moses?

Philistines were probably more fluid with integration. Israelite/Jewish identity became a lot stricter, more rigidly defined. Meanwhile Philistines, like their ancestors of Aegean and Canaanite-Levantine stock remained more open to assimilation, integration. Modern Palestinians are basically the offsprings of everyone non-Jewish making their rounds around there, but also Jewish converts to Christianity and/or Islam, probably thus the high presence of genetic traces associated with Mizrahim, and furthermore the priestly class (clan), actually afaik the highest prevalence outside the Jewish population proper.

@@zsoltsandor3814 as for the genetics, Palestinian generics is "close" to not only Mizrahi AND Ashkenazi Jews, but pretty much everyone else in the Near East, including the Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians and Iraqis. In fact, closer to the Saudis than any. other modern population group. So while you can argue on this basis that Palestinians descended from Jews, it can be equally argued that they are close because they both originate from the Middle East and probably have common ancestors. Or could be argued that Palestinians are the descendants of the Arabs from Arabia, who in turn have common ancestry with Jews. :) For the record, Palestinians are not the closest genetic relatives of Mizrahi Jews. Ashkenazi Jews are the closest. genetic relatives of of both Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews (they practically cluster together, at least for paternal Y chromosome), followed by Kurds and Druze. Only two exceptions: Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews who show greater generic affinity with Yemenite Arabs (suggesting significant intermarriage, probably during pre-Islamic era) and Ethiopians, respectively. Plus a few more exceptions for minor Jewish groups such as Kaifeng Jews and some small Jewish groups in India. In other words, the vast majority of Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews are much closer to each other genetically, than they are to their host populations where they live or lived.

@@zsoltsandor3814 new studies have shown Jewish and Palestinian people belong to the same gene pool. They are not genetically different. They just read a different book.

To me, it is highly taboo but not ancient or even foreign. As a child in China, I was offered dog meat once and I tried it out of curiosity. Back then I had never owned or taken care of a dog, so it felt no different than eating pork or beef. I'd be deeply traumatized if that happened now, since I've raised my German shepherd since he was a puppy.

You revere Dogs? OK.

Phoenicians were probably Cypriots, BTW.

@@andrewsuryali8540 What do you mean? Eteocypriots were Pre-Indo-Europeans

@@BurnBird1 I mean that the people who would later became Hebrew-speaking Phoenicians were probably originally Cypriots who migrated in during the bronze age collapse.

Nope

Differently abled mentally.

Nope, this is Patheos' own channel. RFB and Patheos are collaborating on this 15-episode series!

philistines of genesis are likely an anachronism

@@robertleffel3156 Potentially, maybe that's why the Septuagint understands them as "other nations" in Genesis. I wonder if it is based on textual variants or some kind of understanding floating around at the time.

Or maybe there was more than one guy called Goliath? Perhaps 'Goliath' meant 'big badass' in the Philistine language and there were many warriors that went by that name (?)

I have an idea, but I make no claim that this is actually what happened. You could imagine that whatever caused those sites to be destroyed also caused the population to flee and become migrating bands of sea peoples.

@@GammaRoss so are you suggesting that something caused the Myceaean cities to collapse, and then those Myceaean people became the Sea Peoples themselves? That's interesting but something still doesn't add up because the Myceaeans had their own writing system, Linear B, which I don't think appears in Philistine sites. So the whole pottery similarity is super interesting but it seems there's a disconnect.

have you actually watched the episode? The combination of Philistine pottery, material culture, dietary habits, and DNA suggests they were originally from elsewhere. The. video. doesn't mention it, but there is some linguistic evidence as well. Exactly where from and whether they were conquerors or simply migrants looking for better life is still debated, but the question of their non-local origins is settled. Also, all contemporary references to them indicate they were foreign. TheBible does not say they were from "Greece". At the time the relevant biblical books were written, Greece was not a uniform culture and the Israelites were not particularly interested or concerned with it. Lastly, the Romans renamed. Judea into Palestine in 2nd. century CE, i.e. 700 years after the Philistines vanished. from history. This was done not to acknowledge anyone else who. lived there then or before (they weren't exactly woke), but to add an insult to an injury to Jews (for whom historically the Philistines were the adversaries)

I would think material artefacts hold more weight than the myth-heavy, polemical, nationalistic propaganda of their neighbors, in regard to illuminating the beliefs of ancient peoples. What you're suggesting is like saying is that we can find a better description of the beliefs and culture of Egypt from Exodus than archaeology.

@@thealmightyaku-4153 I don’t disagree with that, I simply want more info than “well we found more.” What if because it was a male God the material used to make the figures was not as resilient as other pottery types causing the fact that there was one more than the other. Unless you understand the detailed nuances of the culture itself it’s ultimately an oversimplification. And though I see your analogy and it does hold merit, that is similar to saying “well you can’t believe books about Hitler written by Americans because Americans were Hitlers rival.” Not that you shouldn’t be careful when considering the source but it certainly is kind of dumb to dismiss it at face value. Also, according to parts of this video... they apparently weren’t even rivals but were possibly BFFs.

@@thealmightyaku-4153 myth heavy and nationalistic describes basically every group of people for the last 5K years. I mean even in the age of science there is a lot of people who think there is 97 genders and that aliens are just the next galaxy away.

@@SH-kz4fl I’m not sure your notions about statuary hold weight, considering male god statues have been found elsewhere from the period, and earlier. I would also think god statues would be more robustly built than goddess ones. But also, don’t imagine that the bible is some scholarly work by neutral observers. It is propaganda, purposeful propaganda, in the oldest sense. It was written to solidify and propagate specific theological and doctrinal ideas - most prominently that all worship should be directed to the patron deity of Israel, to the exclusion of all foreign gods, and the other gods of the previously polytheistic Hebrew pantheon. Don’t underestimate the possibility that the story and its details are made up whole-cloth, by either an ignorant or misinformed, or deliberately ‘inventive’ author, to make a teachable point.

@@SH-kz4fl This is the problem with a short video like this. If you go through the actual archaeological data, there is NO EVIDENCE OF A TEMPLE OF DAGON IN ANY PHILISTINE CITY during the age of the Philistines. Additionally, it's questionable if the Philistines ever had temple culture similar to what was described in the Bible. Remember, the Bible is describing 7th-6th century BCE religious practices in the area. Well, during the time the Philistines were around as a distinct and powerful ethnic group, the societies in the area were more egalitarian. Even among the Israelites, temple culture only appeared around the 10th century BCE, and they were monolatrists. So, if you combine lack of any evidence of worship of Dagon (or for that matter, any other god) and the prevalence of chair-lady, it's far more likely they weren't worshipping Dagon but chair-lady instead. However, people living in formerly Philistine cities during the time the Bible was written may have been worshipping Dagon and that's what we may be seeing recorded in the text.

which "tell"? There is no such thing as "the tell". There are thousands of tels in the Levant.The word simply means a "hill" in Hebrew (Arabic equivalent is tal), and is a settlement mound

Difference between living in the flesh vs spirit. Does a spirit need food or drink 🤑💰 money. 🥇 Gold. Can a spirit have babys. Only in the flesh. Union of souls.

Yes, I believe they are!! They still live in the same land where the story of the philistines took place, and they are the only nation in the world that's called the philistines and that's how they pronounce it in Arabic with an F not a P . 🤔 it's strange how it seems that gods and goddesses existed in every ancient civilization around the world but not anymore

In the Bible they wrote Philistines with a p, the Greeks wrote it with a f (ph to be specific) in the Septuagint and this name became Philistine in English, and Filistin in Arabic.

From what i know the romans changed the name of judea to palestine as a sort of fuck you to the jews (this was around 70 b.c during the destruction of the second temple) i may be wrong tho so you should do some research yourself. And please tell me what you find :)

@@gordon9768 It was after the second Jewish uprising (132-135 CE) but essentially correct. :) The former provice of Iudaea was renamed Syria Palaestina ("Philistine Syria") after the Roman victory.

@@Ime144 There are still plenty of old religions practiced in the world. Islam and Christianity still haven't completely conquered the world...

Just because you didn't hear of it before doesn't mean it's something new

Watch Useful Charts' video on why people are attacking him for using that type of date

In a sense, yes. They are the descendants of those Sea People of Aegean and Canaanite-Levantine stock intermarrying, then all the other non-Jewish people ever making their rounds there in any number and shape (Assyrians, Persians, Greek, Romans, Arabs, Copts, Armenians, Kurds, Moors, Mongols, etc, and also Jewish converts to Christianity and/or Islam throughout history.

The philistines disappeared from history in 700bc

@@talksmoke1190 month and day?

@@zsoltsandor3814 Saturday the 12th of June at am 11:21:09

The _name_ is certainly related - Palaestina was the Latin form of the Greek name of the Philistines. The people - well, as much as everyone is related to everyone else in the area after three thousand years of migrations, trade, marriage, war, and travel.

Actually, modern Jews cluster pretty uniformly, with exception of a few small subgroups. They are actually very easy. to pin down genetically.

Philistine DNA changed over time from more European in early days to more "Canaanite/Levantine" towards the end of their history in 6th century BCE.

@@robertleffel3156 I have to disagree, here. Perhaps you're aware of a trove of genetic data I've not been able to access. There's no racial/ethnic group I'm aware of that has more varied inputs/markers across a wider spectrum.. it's not merely the Ash/Seph divide, but even within these two groups there is immense variation, relative to other peoples. This might (intuitively) be expected from a people with such a history of mercantile activity, and international migration/settlement

@@robertleffel3156 here we're agreed!

@@jmedlin81 what are you talking about? What immense variation? Most Jews today are basically 5th cousins. There. is more variety on the mitochondrial side especially with Ashkenazim, but if you take Polish, Moroccan, Iraqi and Bokharan Jew, they would be much closer to each other genetically than to the population of the countries they live in, or anyone other gentile group. Mercantile activity and migrations, for most part did not prevent Jewish communal and hence genetic isolation. For most part of the last 2000 years, they were not even legally able to intermarry (i.e. marry gentle wife). in Christian Europe or the.muslim world. Are you talking about some studies done perhaps on American Jews with 3 generations of intermarriage?🤣 Oh, well, then I rest my case. They are JINOs and indistinguishable from other mixed up Americans in every way including genetics soon course they'd show immense variation. ;

What’s wrong with eating dogs?

@@Sea_ss don’t talk to me or my son ever again

@@videosefilmes22 you’re not answering the question and just doing emotional outrage. So, tell me what’s wrong with consuming dogs? We consume pigs and no one seems to care much

@@Sea_ss We're very emotionally attached with dogs, at least with most cultures, also they're more useful as security or some other utilities than as food.

@@petarjovanovic1481 Well, archeological evidence from 50kya shows a woman buried with her dog. If that's not an emotional connection...

they are not

No, Philistines had roots in what is modern Greece, but not the Palestinians

That's what the Jews might wish to believe also.

Except for the fact that the philistines were wipe from history in 700bc

@@talksmoke1190 wiped, or assimilated even if just partially. Afaik their genetic traces are still there.

@@zsoltsandor3814 their genetic traces indicate from Egypt to turkey thru arabia, including Jewish dna. There is absolutely no cultural distinct philistine identity after that point.

@@talksmoke1190 yep, afaik they have one of the largest, if not the largest percentage of genetic traces of Mizrahim, and more specifically the priestly class/clan, outside of ethnic Jewish proper. Probably a result of urban Jews converting to Christianity and later to Islam. Urban Jews converted and eventually assimilated faster, while Judaism remained in the rural communities, becoming the basis of the Mizrahim, some of whom eventually resettled into urban settings, but many lived the same lifestyle as the Beduin tribes, even adopting Arabic for their everyday communication. Much like European paganism stood longer in the countryside (pagan literally means person of the countryside), and even permeated the new faith, while the urbanized converted much faster.

@@zsoltsandor3814 the problem you have is that you are making dna and culture the same. Basically everyone on the micro-fractional level comes from the same genetic pool. When you break it down to culture there is no direct cultural-historical link between philestine and palestine. You are saying that because someone in my family 1000 years ago brought pictish dna into the family, I am pict.

The theory is that the Phillistines were Greeks from Crete (Minoans). The Bible portrays the Philistines as outsiders as well, indicating they’re not native to Canaan.

Minoans also traded with many cultures in eastern mediterranean region. The art/cultural similarities might be from trade

@@DianaCHewitt why would they make LOCAL pottery in Minoan style if they were local? Makes no sense