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Why Algorithms Can’t Think: “Artificial Communication” by Elena Esposito 

Carefree Wandering
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Elena Esposito and Hans-Georg Moeller discuss intelligence, algorithms, and communication.
#carefreewandering #HansGeorgMoeller #philosophy
Artificial Communication: How Algorithms Produce Social Intelligence (Open Access):
direct.mit.edu/books/book/533...
Elena Esposito is professor of sociology at Bielefeld University (Germany) and at the University of Bologna (Italy). In her works on fashion, finance, probability, and algorithms, she has developed the social systems theory of Niklas Luhmann (who was her PhD supervisor).
00:00 Introduction
01:33 Artificial Communication
13:13 Lists
17:54 Prediction
24:44 How are Algorithms Involved in Communication?
35:55 Picture-Taking and Escaping the Present
51:49 Algorithms as Mirrors of Profilicity
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Outro Music:
Carsick Cars - You Can Listen You Can Talk:
• Carsick Cars - You Can...
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Hans-Georg Moeller is a professor at the Philosophy and Religious Studies Department at the University of Macau, and, with Paul D'Ambrosio, author of the recently published You and Your Profile: Identity After Authenticity".
(If you buy professor's book from the Columbia University Press website and use the promo code CUP20 , you should get a 20% discount.)

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19 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 200   
@michaelh42
@michaelh42 Год назад
As a computer engineer I agree completely with professor Esposito's argument that communication would be a better term for explaining what machine learning algorithms are used for contemporarily. For example the RU-vid recommendations algorithm most likely works with cohort analysis where your interactions cause you to be categorised into groups. It then recommends to you something a group you're in likes. So you are the Sender of Messages who does not know the Receivers and vice versa. In fact, you are also the Receiver of your own Messages but hopefully in a modulated way so that the algorithm recommends to you something you haven't seen yet. It's a performative feedback loop. To be more precise, the companies refuse to reveal how their algorithms work because the symbol tables they use are their "Intellectual Property". Based on your interactions your profile gets assigned various symbols (aka dimensions). That's how they are then able to cross-reference what kind of lists of content would be satisfactory. The sets of dimensions used can have disastrous consequences as some commenters have pointed out. The danger is that human biases are translated into what is thought to be an "objective" arbiter. There is no intelligence here. Just because the algorithm is able to turn a set of dimensions into a list of content does not make it understand why that list of content was produced. The algorithms are merely sets of instructions that drive input through a path of transistors consituted on statistical, probabilistic or cross-referencing implementations. When programmers talk about AI amongst themselves they call it machine learning. However, if they would like some funding they call it AI. Thanks a lot for the video. I really appreciate the time it must take for philosophers to talk about these things in a very precise way. 👍
@beastofthenumber6764
@beastofthenumber6764 Год назад
artificial intelligence is not called artificial because machines do it, it is called artificial because as you say "there is no intelligence here".
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn Год назад
I don't know if that's really a fair comparison. Recommendation algorithms like what YT uses aren't generally called AI, are they? The things which are tend to be more than that. For instance, IBM's Watson. But maybe that's also just a fancy recommendation engine. I wouldn't know, so is it? I'm saying that I don't think AI researchers call just about any algorithm AI, unless they're trying to sell it ofc. The ones they do, like Dall-E, typically operate via complex, often opaque, inner workings rather than just comparing different tables.
@beastofthenumber6764
@beastofthenumber6764 Год назад
@@ArawnOfAnnwn the way i see it intelligence in the ai community is the degree of ability to find solutions to problems in an efficient manner. so if i want to find 7*2 i can either 7+7 or 2+2+2+2+2+2+2 the first method is the more intelligent one, now what algoritms are called ai or no depends on the context. a dog that can obey orders like sit and standup we call intelligent criteria that we dont apply to human beings. so in a sense is similar to saying something is beautiful, and in than sense you could see a spider and think is very beautiful or have arachnophobia and find them ugly as hell.
@testboga5991
@testboga5991 Год назад
How is an algorithm that detects people to avoid overcrowding in a set space more communication than intelligence? i think as a general and global term, AI is actually fitting and the subsets require more specific labels anyway, i.e. recognition models, generative models, classification models etc.
@michaelh42
@michaelh42 Год назад
@@testboga5991 In that context it makes sense but I was thinking on the level of systems. There I find communication to be a much more versatile concept compared to intelligence. What is intelligence? ChatGPT says: "Intelligence can be understood as the capacity or ability to acquire, understand, and apply knowledge, reason logically, solve problems, learn from experience, and adapt to new situations. It involves the ability to think, understand, and make judgments, as well as the ability to learn from and interact with the environment effectively. Intelligence encompasses various cognitive skills, such as memory, attention, perception, language, problem-solving, and decision-making." There are plants that are able to store a memory of a smell that they emit when they are being eaten by pests so that the same plants downwind can change the coloring of their flowers. By that definition plants are intelligent and that's why intelligence isn't that interesting to me. Communication on the other hand is endlessly fascinating. It elevates leaders into positions of power and sends crooks to the hangman. The artificial things that have been built are able to influence elections and spread misinformation at the speed of the light. They are able to connect like-minded individuals who would like to overthrow democratic governments. They are able to create platforms based solely on the logic of BBS flame wars where the culture wars rage year after year. That's amazing. Perhaps arguing over semantics is what life is all about and so to me intelligence is a property of the Universe whereas communication is the dance that makes life worth living. I still don't think these ML models are intelligent in the sense of you and I (yes I am contradicting myself deliberately to show that I can hold two inconsistent arguments in my head at the same time) but once we experience a rogue AC (Artificial Communicator) that is able to gather enough policitical power I may be forced to reconsider.
@KokowaSarunoKuniDesu
@KokowaSarunoKuniDesu Год назад
I'm a Computer Scientist and we have been exposed to "Artificial Intelligence" since the 1970s. It's just a buzz word for fancy algorithms. Also for opaque algorithms.
@willfrank961
@willfrank961 Год назад
Do you have any intuition for what makes human intelligence rise above "fancy algorithm" status?
@bjornrie
@bjornrie 10 месяцев назад
​@@willfrank961I recommend you Duncan's video "What Artificial Intelligence is missing".
@zabeardybeardy232
@zabeardybeardy232 8 месяцев назад
​@@willfrank961emergence
@eli-nm1ng
@eli-nm1ng Год назад
the discussion on gen z and how they/we engage in identity is truly fascinating. as an example, i make music and to market myself i have to create an identity around the more typical business concepts of target audience and branding. this isn’t necessarily an identity I identify with but it exists as a form of me nonetheless. I don’t think you can have a conversation about modern forms of identity without factoring in the economic incentives and algorithms that act as the enforcers of them
@MirrorSurfer
@MirrorSurfer Год назад
Very well put.
@gh0s1wav
@gh0s1wav Год назад
Yes I make music too. It's very apparent that to build and maintain an audience you have to curate a consistent identity. Like if this RU-vid channel just started uploading videos of cats just because Prof Moeller became interested in cats id stop watching it. It would basically be a completely different RU-vid channel. Same thing with my Instagram. I consistently just upload pictures of me going throughout my day because that's what ppl want to see and what ppl support. When it comes to music it's really important to pick a particular genre because if not ppl will end up just coming and going. It's hard to do this tho because as human beings we have loads of different interests, even as a musician I am interested in different genres and musical ideas that don't even have a genre label, I feel like that taps into that ungraspable inner self of authenticity, but in a prolific society you must curate a consistent image if you want to maintain any sort of support/following...which seems restrictive at first until you realize you can literally make as many profiles as you want and update them anytime you want. Even understanding this I still have a problem making the full leap. Authenticity is so entrenched in our society. The ppl who completely embrace profilicity (but can obviously still maintain authenticity and sincerity) are definitely still a minority.
@eli-nm1ng
@eli-nm1ng Год назад
@@gh0s1wav super interesting tension there between the authentic freedom to explore and experiencing whatever, however you want is enclosed in by this self imposed profile identity. I also agree in that it seems like the more common tendency is to fold the profile identity in with one's perceived authentic identity, and less common to be aware of the difference.
@AnthonyCasadonte
@AnthonyCasadonte Год назад
The point about taking a picture to relieve the burden of the present reminds me of something Foucault said: "I don't say the things I say because they are what I think. I say them as a way to make sure they no longer are what I think." To me, in both cases you externalize something to perhaps relieve a kind of burden.
@alexanderleuchte5132
@alexanderleuchte5132 Год назад
test
@alexanderleuchte5132
@alexanderleuchte5132 Год назад
Tunisia
@Maxarcc
@Maxarcc Год назад
An incredibly interesting guest. She communicates many of the frustrations I had during the research process of my thesis about online misinformation. Algorithms are often framed as an isolated process, but they are an extension of our very selves. Their input is the goal to maximise engagement and therefore profits. Which, like Elena touches on as well, dictates the rules in how we relate and communicate with them, as well as one another. Misinformation is often framed as either a problem inherent to the internet, or a problem by malicious actors that try to stir the pot, but I think neither touches on the core of the issue. Misinformation is generally more sensational than reality and is more effective in arousing our emotions. It is therefore more prone to generate engagement. Because engagement is the thing that generates the profits, misinformation should be framed as an emission. A market failure. Not some side effect of a new form of intelligence, but a side effect of how the profit motive dictates how we communicate with it.
@charlie3k
@charlie3k Год назад
"Algorithms are often framed as an isolated process, but they are an extension of our very selves" Have you heard of the extension theory of technology?
@Maxarcc
@Maxarcc Год назад
@@charlie3k I have heard of it! But it's a term used outside of my field, so I only have a basic understanding of it. Does it have connections to the idea of transhumanism?
@otto_jk
@otto_jk Год назад
The Terminator and Matrix have melted people's brains and made them have completely mistaken ideas about what computers can actually do.
@bigbrownhouse6999
@bigbrownhouse6999 Год назад
Just like how x men melted everyone’s brains about evolution.
@djl8710
@djl8710 Год назад
Most people still believe in God. Are you talking about people that understand the arguments in this video? Are their brains melted too? If I told you that you are made of DNA and that is four components A-T-C-G are you gonna tell me that my brain is melted? If I made the statement that: Hydrogen, given enough time makes people, am I incorrect?
@gr2192
@gr2192 Год назад
There is actually a difference between Weak AI and Strong AI. Strong AI is not here (yet) but according to some people is very much a possible future outcome.
@Brian-rt5bb
@Brian-rt5bb Год назад
@@gr2192 The difference between Weak AI and Strong AI is Weak AI isn't AI, and strong AI doesn't exist. (and will never exist)
@gr2192
@gr2192 Год назад
@@Brian-rt5bb Yes, Weak AI is not really intelligent if we consider how WE are intelligent. Strong AI probably Will never be here, but it's not impossible
@markkulahtinen1343
@markkulahtinen1343 Год назад
Many thanks for these great insights. I have the feeling that in the past my life was more authentic for sure. I grew up in a small village, where there were only a couple of kids of my age. We had to get along, otherwise there was no one to play with. If we had arguments or fights, there were always adults who helped us to get over the problems and to apologize. The next day we would play together again. Nowadays we tend to focus on building our own profile-based identity paradigms so much that authenticity appears to be secondary. However, there will be always someone willing to play with us on the internet even without the apology. I appreciate Elena bringing out the the view that the current way of taking photos is not necessary a bad thing, it is just something different from what we have been used to. I am such an old-school guy that I still prefer keeping my mobile in my pocket and just chatting with my old friends.
@funkymunky
@funkymunky Год назад
It’s alienating to deal with people who don’t trust you because you never take or share a selfie. I yearn for simpler times…
@scottscheper
@scottscheper Год назад
Thanks for being inauthentic and sharing this.
@sebastienleblanc5217
@sebastienleblanc5217 Год назад
Thank you for this insightful, stimulating conversation!
@emmtea5092
@emmtea5092 Год назад
I first heard of Elena from one of your earlier videos (her talk on fashion, fascinating). Thanks for this team up
@jacobprogramdirector5566
@jacobprogramdirector5566 Год назад
(18:00) I've been calling algorithms a form of Cleromancy for years, glad to see someone with more research chops coming to a similar conclusions
@montgomerypowers7205
@montgomerypowers7205 Год назад
I found this really interesting, especially when you discussed language and mind to mind communication. I was musing on this when I was feeding my cat and realized we were both communicating about the same thing (his food) while he didn't have the words I do to frame the communication. It made me wonder how he conceives the idea of food and that there must be some unabstracted form of language that exists before words. Perhaps highly individualized conglomerations of feelings and experiences that come together to form a discrete idea.
@keyvanmehrbakhsh4069
@keyvanmehrbakhsh4069 Год назад
thank you for this good conversation.
@Ashour96
@Ashour96 Год назад
Fascinating discussion! Would love to see more interviews on this channel. Professor Moeller, if your are so inclined and able, I recommend hosting Evan Thompson - professor of philosophy - as his work on autopoiesis, the mind, and the self could lead to a very interesting, and insightful discussion between you two.
@ieatlolz
@ieatlolz Год назад
I really enjoyed this interview, would love to hear more like this in the future! It would be great if you could add subtitles as well, the combination of dense subject matter, fast talking, and thick accent made a few points difficult to follow.
@Panttts
@Panttts Год назад
I am looking forward to watching this very soon and also hopefully a reference to GEB-EGB
@thetruthoutside8423
@thetruthoutside8423 Год назад
I agree with your take by bringing Martin, this is very important bringing this point which I always have especially when I go to museums.
@waynemcmillan5970
@waynemcmillan5970 Год назад
Great discussion.
@abdielgonzalez7344
@abdielgonzalez7344 Год назад
Thank you!
@leonardotavaresdardenne9955
I love her accent
@De0bombie252
@De0bombie252 11 месяцев назад
I love this interview format, it adds to your channel in great ways for me. I would love to see more on images and image iconoclasts, such as with work like that of Hito Steyerl.
@pabrodi
@pabrodi Год назад
We have a very anthropocentric view of what it means to be intelligent or conscious. I see the specialists on this subject behaving just like early scientists who thought Earth was the center of the universe just because it's where we live.
@pabrodi
@pabrodi Год назад
@@Barklord how decentering is part of the problem when centering brought us the Anthropocene's mass extinction, global warming, factory livestock farms, and has been historically proven wrong every time our science advances?
@otto_jk
@otto_jk Год назад
Universe doesn't have a real center therefore the the place where you observe the universe from is the centre. Meaning that earth is the centre of the universe in a certain way.
@pabrodi
@pabrodi Год назад
@@otto_jk Do you agree with the reasoning why Earth is the center?
@otto_jk
@otto_jk Год назад
@@pabrodi no but completely understandable to prioritize your own subjective experience
@SzalonyKucharz
@SzalonyKucharz Год назад
@@pabrodi Ironically, you are being anthropocentric now. Do you think mass extinctions are not possible without human involvment of even sheer observation? Everything must die. Every. Thing. Unless you claim that laws of thermodynics are not universal but anthropomocentric. Besides, how can we expect humans not to see and conceptualize reality from a human point of view, after all? We're only humans.
@pilleater
@pilleater Год назад
I love this!!!
@springinfialta106
@springinfialta106 Год назад
It's interesting that some folks took a fresh look at Object Oriented programming and realized that its basic essence was not strong definitions of objects but establishing a messaging network between objects. It's all about communication among bits of code rather than some inherent property (intelligence?) within the bits of code.
@Bestmann3n
@Bestmann3n Год назад
That's not a fresh look, that _was_ the original concept for OOP. Alan Kay(who designed Smalltalk in the seventies) talked about exactly those kind of things(messaging networks).
@yawnandjokeoh
@yawnandjokeoh Год назад
Machines being perceived as potentially intelligent reminds me of I am a Strange Loop where Hofstader talks about the mechanism of a flush toilet appearing as intelligent but is just a mechanical system. Communication takes place with out language. It’s not certain to me that machines actually use language or if it’s just communication alla the toilet analogy: mechanical systems. In terms of why socially there is an emphasis on machines potentially being able to become sentient is the typical capitalist aim of devaluation of labor, particularly when the level of constant capital has increased to the point where Fabs and such are primary to all systems of production. If workers feel a “singularity” is inevitable they are lesser so to realize the power of labor has grown and intelligent labor holds a tremendous power to shut down capitalism.
@thetruthoutside8423
@thetruthoutside8423 Год назад
Excellent.
@sergeausrio
@sergeausrio 3 месяца назад
Elena ist die Beste!
@lauriniemela4655
@lauriniemela4655 Год назад
Hans, thank you for your highly stimulating content. This particular topic is exciting to follow. I don't have a comment to make on artificial consciousness however, but feel like disserting a bit on another topic. It popped to my head if you know of the work of your fellow countryman Thomas Metzinger? This is probably going to be very confusing, but to preface, the mention of Luhmann's distinction between mind and communication being of different organizational systems, operating under different set of rules (just getting to know Luhman's theory, gradually) leaves the mind or the consciousness "floating" and renders it sociologically inconsequential in strict terms, almost arbitrary. In a faint way I find parallels to the concept of annata and no-self on one hand and eliminative materialist descriptions of consciousness on another. I don't know what Luhmann might have said about buddhism or philosophical zombies (probably not interested), but I suppose his stance is that consciousness or awareness participates in highly complex self-regulation and can modulate the physiological state of the organism as a whole, i.e self or capacity for awareness work together with various bodily processes to sustain the homeostasis of the organism, but it doesn't extend beyond that (social, political, law etc). In eastern philosophy no-self certainly didn't also mean that a mind could have an enacted willful influence over the body. Diaphragmatic breathing is a good enough example. The issue is however, that the way the mind contributes to the body (direct or indirect influencing of the bodily state) is a known, ongoing problem in contemporary consciousness research, as far as I've understood, as is the duality in general in philosophy of mind (like, what is the correlative substrate between mind and non-mind etc.). Certainly like Luhmann in his analylsis of communication, we could drop the mind/consciousness out of the equation (in self-regulation) all together, or not? I thought it would highly interesting what you would think of discussing the work of (or better, with!) Thomas Metzinger or any topic that would link the eastern, possibly daoist, philosophy and systems theory, as it seems to me that tying Luhmann to this would surely be very enlightening, if that is something you would vibe to of course. I'm in no way sure I managed to get my thoughts across here so apologies for the possible textual convulsions you may have encountered. Haven't made youtube comments really ever.
@DeadEndFrog
@DeadEndFrog Год назад
great guest!
@vascojoao
@vascojoao Год назад
I but appreciate that you post it, because in the last day s im going crazy thinking that only me is thinking in that way, you meet the social box for me, not youtube.
@emperorOfMustard
@emperorOfMustard Год назад
Brilliant! I think this way of thinking about these algorithms makes much more intuitive sense. I guess you could think of a computer(consisting of memory and a processor) as a potential that responds to certain interactions and which we draw from using algorithms. And the ml algorithms are just a very effective way of doing that. But the actual machine or the piece of code is no more intelligent than a calculator.
@springinfialta106
@springinfialta106 Год назад
This really does appear to be a restatement of Searle's Chinese Room. The main critique of the Chinese Room is that the rules necessary for the person in the room to follow would need be so complex and intricate that they would constitute intelligence. The current method of cramming petabytes of data into an ever-expanding neural net that at some point ceases to be explainable is less a complex and intricate set of rules, and is more a multi-dimensional set of weighted dice.
@BiggFanDDD
@BiggFanDDD Год назад
Wow. Excellent interview. I am a researcher of deep learning and I found the idea of artificial communication to be quite an interesting reconceptualization of AI. I suppose I will be reading Elena's book shortly! I must ask though for an elaboration on the disagreement between the two of you. It seems that Elena does not see second order observation to be a relevant feature of the current mode but the book on profilicity seems to posit that it is. Why the difference?
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 Год назад
Thanks. I think Elena Esposito agrees that pervasive second-order observation is a feature of modern society (that's a claim by Luhmann). She may think, however, that it has a long pre-modern history (which Luhmann also points out and I also acknowledge) and may therefore not be that distinctive of "profilicity."
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn Год назад
In the scifi book Blindsight, the aliens we make contact with are obviously highly advanced. However they're also apparently lacking a sense of consciousness. But they're still more intelligent than us, and could presumably destroy us if they decided to. You could say the same for AI - in essence, the book asks if our sense of self is really as important as we treat it as. If evolution doesn't care for it, then why should we? And why should an AI? In Star Trek TNG the character Data spends his whole life trying to learn to become more human. If Data were real, would he really do that? Or would he deem it irrelevant? In which case, what would he want? Would he want anything at all, assuming he wasn't programmed to? If an AI were switched on with no preset purpose, how would it live? Or would it just turn itself off (or just sit still for eternity), effectively treating it's own existence as pointless?
@merocaine
@merocaine Год назад
In the Ripley books one of themes Patricia Highsmith explored was the idea of originality. If a fake work of art is in every way as convincing as an original, and inspires in the viewer the same response as the original, does it matter if it is fake anymore? This could be applied to the main character who began life as a con man and who eventually after adopting the clothes and life of a man he befriended and subsequently murdered, was recognised, due to his trappings of wealth and taste as to be a man worthy of emulation himself. Do I care if you are a machine copy, as long as you are convincing and a entertaining conversationalist?
@thenoblegnuwildebeest3625
@thenoblegnuwildebeest3625 7 месяцев назад
You may enjoy a doctoral thesis by Richard Evans entitled "Kant’s Cognitive Architecture". It examines a lot of artificial intelligence concepts through the lens of Kant, in a very rigorous way.
@luszczi
@luszczi Год назад
I have something that's either an accurate critical point or proof of my confusion/misunderstanding. It's a fairly standard line of thinking, so if it's the latter, it might still be useful for the discussion. Contrary to what Prof. Esposito says, the Turing test is still relevant. The essence of the Turing test is that it tries to measure flexibility, coming up with novel ideas in response to changing context. This method of distinguishing humans and only-seemingly-intelligent machines dates back at least to Descartes' Discourse (the end of the 5th chapter IIRC). The Turing Test could be done entirely without any form of conversation, e.g. with novel solutions to new problems (another aspect of the flexibility of reason that Descartes mentioned), which ties up nicely with more modern talk of "General AI". We never found a better way of distinguishing humans and automatons than the one Descartes and Turing are talking about, so we are still using it. We are well aware that that no algorithm has ever met this standard and there are compelling reasons to think that no algorithm can meet it in principle. For this reason (again, if I understand her correctly) I don't see how the shift in terminology that Prof. Esposito is proposing can help us understand anything better. Most importantly, what's the supposed "conceptual mistake" at the heart of Artificial Intelligence talk? Yeah, sure enough, we don't know what intelligence is, but, as I mentioned, we know at least one fairly good criterion that "real" intelligence must have. There's nothing to worry about, "conceptually speaking", until we build a machine that meets this criterion. When the criterion isn't met in an artifact, we must necessarily be dealing with something that merely seems intelligent, but isn't. Can it be that it is assumed in this talk that this criterion is already met? I disagree. Is the criterion somehow confused? I fail to see why.
@aedeatia
@aedeatia Год назад
Maybe the confusion stems from the definition of what the Turing Test is? The test is whether or not a human can tell apart a computer from a human by only communicating with the agent though a textual interface. AI researches actually agree that the Turing Test is overrated and beating it does not contribute meaningful progress to AI. Passing the Turing Test is not a very active area of research. All the Turing test does is test how gullible humans are, and indeed in the events where the test was "beaten" was through non-intelligent tricks. The lack of alternative is indeed a problem, but there is a proposal to replace it with four tests. Search up "The Search for a New Test of Artificial Intelligence" published by Scientific American.
@luszczi
@luszczi Год назад
@@aedeatia There is the concept of intelligence, there is the necessary condition for intelligence (the criterion of flexibility) and there is the exact procedure of the Turing Test. Those who are attempting to change the procedure, but not the criterion are not replacing the Turing Test, but improving it. That's what the new tests you mentioned are doing and that's what I meant in the first place. Now everyone has a different idea of intelligence: Turing, Descartes, modern cognitivists and AI researchers. Turing thought that his criterion all but proved the existence of intelligence beyond sensible discussion ("can machines think?=can submarines swim?"). You don't have to agree with Turing about that, you only need to grant that his criterion is a necessary, if not sufficient, condition for it. The criterion is perennially relevant for "detecting" only seemingly intelligent machines, even if there are disagreements as to how to measure this criterion. To state my point most succinctly: Prof. Esposito also seems to be using this criterion implicitly, while claiming that the Turing test is irrelevant and that we need a change in terminology, because the idea "Artificial Intelligence" is somehow a contradiction in terms (?). I'm throwing it out there, so maybe somehow explains to me what the insight / novelty is here.
@danielmiller4279
@danielmiller4279 Год назад
I’m stuck on the alphabetic writing -> abstract thought; is the thesis that modern-day non-alphabetic cultures, such as China, do not perform abstract thought? Or is it that Chinese and other similarly apparently-pictographic languages are actually alphabetic? I simply can’t process this if the thesis is that modern-day China (or any other time period using today’s writing) is not capable of abstract thought.
@otto_jk
@otto_jk Год назад
If they weren't able to do abstract thought they wouldn't be able to do high level mathematics but a lot of top mathematicians come from countries that don't use alphabetic writing systems
@danielmiller4279
@danielmiller4279 Год назад
@@otto_jk exactly why I’m so stuck on this issue.
@contactarilev
@contactarilev Год назад
I'd apply the Principle of Charity here and assume she means writing (regardless of the symbols used) whose qualities (syntax, semantics, etc.) inherently communicate abstract concepts between two communicators who share an understanding of that writing system. I haven't read her book but I would assume she'd include Braille, Morse code, and other modern systems in there too, even though they aren't "written". Lists have structures, but they are very limited in the abstract concepts conveyed by them, whereas a written language of similar length conveys tons of information that doesn't need to be interpreted. I can tell you "There are a lot of poor Guatemalan immigrants who live on the East Side of town" or I can hand you a phonebook from which you could derive that people with certain names seem to cluster around certain addresses, cross reference that with income distribution maps and ancestral name databases to figure out the same thing. That written sentence (whether in English, Chinese, or whatever) represents a discrete abstract thought. The phone book, as a list, doesn't inherently represent that same abstract thought. [Note that the phone book could be in English too, but it's still a list; the symbols used isn't important, it's functionality that permits communication of abstract thoughts between communicators that have a shared understanding of that functionality.]
@cairn369
@cairn369 Год назад
Hi, a Chinese here. So yes, Chinese characters are pictographic, but when I read, write, listen to Chinese, I do not interpret them by first imagining what pictures they represent, how each character was structured, and then understand what they mean. I simply understand the abstract meaning of them through a large quatity of practisc over time, like how you would know what an English word means. Treat the pictorial attribute of a Chinese as a tag, it helps you remember them and sometimes gives you a good chance of guessing the right meaning of a unfamiliar character, like ‘anti-', 'ism' and etc. But hey, first you have to know what the tag means, does ' 氵' looks like water to you? If I wasn't taught that it is supposed to mean water, I think I would have a hard time guessing it. Mordern Chinese characters have undergone several evolutions afterall, they are not so pictorial nowdays compare to when they were invented thousands years ago. At last a example for you: '5', five, and in Chinese '五', I understand and remember '五' the same way I understand and remember '5'. So go figure.
@theoperator9178
@theoperator9178 Год назад
From the perspective of study of language evolution it is also a rather troublesome point. I don't think it's so easy to argue that abstract thought did not exist before alphabetic writing (or any writing for that matter). I've never seen this in the literature connecting the evolution of language and thought (cognition, etc). I think the only thing one can with say with some confidence, if we take both a Luhmannian and linguistically-informed view, is that the communication of abstract thought may not have been as possible before "alphabetic" writing systems (which perhaps to be more clear we should just say "modern writing systems"); her point about the limitations of lists to convey abstract thought has merit of course. But this does not mean abstract thought was not going on in minds before this development. And we should also always bear in mind that a thought communicated in writing does not precisely resemble any thought(s) themselves. It is communication, not thought (this is a Luhmannian distinction which Esposito is very aware of). I would enjoy hearing more on the matter, but right now I'm just as befuddled as you.
@believinbreezin3352
@believinbreezin3352 Год назад
The Chalmers-Penrose debate focused more on whether the mind could be a formal system -- so instead of proving that AI could have human intelligence, we could prove the vice versa. They were focused more on Godel numbers -- the fact that humans can ponder that we are or arent a formal system, or make a Godel sentence, differentiates us from formal systems. Of course, whether we are sound in doing so became their central issue.
@andrewhamann6923
@andrewhamann6923 Год назад
Who is Dr. Esposito referring to in 51:15? The name sounds like "George Albermeed" and she quotes "we see ourselves through the eyes of another". A couple Google searches aren't turning up anything. Thanks!
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 Год назад
It's: George Herbert Mead
@baylenlucas8923
@baylenlucas8923 Год назад
I think that the Chinese Room argument is correct. Digital computers have a finite amount of information and are discrete. Consciousness, intelligence or whatever you call it is not a discrete process, it is continuous. Meaning that either there is no smallest division of space or time or both, and this fact of nature is necessary for consciousness to work. A digital computer cannot replicate continuous space or continuous time because that would require infinite amount of information.
@aedeatia
@aedeatia Год назад
The calculations done for ML AI's are using approximations of continuous numbers and with a small enough time step I don't see why not they can't simulate consciousness. But even if digital computers won't work, surely an analog computers can? Check out @Veritasium's second video on analog computers where the computation for AI is done using physical processes.
@baylenlucas8923
@baylenlucas8923 Год назад
@@aedeatia The Chinese Room argument for why a small enough time step couldn't result in a conscious experience is as follows: A digital computer works on discrete information, and all discrete information can be represented in the form of binary data or 1's and 0's. No matter how large the program(i.e. how short the time step) a person could in principle write the program down on paper and and run it by hand the same way a computer would run it: using the process of fetch, decode and execute until you reach the end. Say you hand me a program which you claim creates a conscious experience. In the original thought experiment it is a program claiming to create the conscious experience of knowing Chinese, while the person running the program by hand does not know Chinese. Let's just say you hand me a program you claim creates the conscious experience of joy. I run your program by hand. At the end of it, all I have is a series of papers with discrete information: 1's and 0's. I ask myself, where is the conscious experience of joy among the 1's and 0's. It is not there. That experience never occurred.
@KilgoreTroutAsf
@KilgoreTroutAsf Год назад
I don't know what other people hear when the term AI is mentioned, but the term "intelligence" has a very narrow technical definition, in the lines of "an agent's capacity to solve problems on its own", i.e. by "learning" something about its environment rather than following a predefined sequence of instructions. And sure, many researchers also like to speculate about the possibility of human-level general AI, but I don't think many of them mistake the current state of art algorithms with anything remotely resembling a human mind.
@believinbreezin3352
@believinbreezin3352 Год назад
That's a very modest assessment. Cognitive science proceeds according to set a givens like any other subject matter: one of them being the computational mind theory. There had been attempts in the past to use a different term than intelligence that can better encapsulate that narrow definition. There's a belief and a desire to anthropromorphize what AI is, maybe less so in the ones actually working on the AI, and obviously in those that market it. But they both go hand-in-hand; researchers need money.
@hian
@hian Год назад
I find it interesting that people try to argue how AI isn't intelligent or different by undermining the operations and function of AI without asking the question: Are humans intelligent/conscious? Is "human thought" really a thing and can we really rule out that we are merely complicated nexuses of algorithms responding to a set of biological imperatives? I'm not convinced AI is substantively different from humans except that we're sufficiently complex to produce the illusion that we are. If you were an NPC in an advanced rockstar game, scripted to ask yourself whether you're conscious and concluding that you are, how would you know? Humans, at least to me, appear to basically just be machines engaging in machine learning, moderated by a set of overarching biological directives(maintain biological functions, procreate, cooperate etc). It might seem nice and tidy to conclude machines aren't intelligent, but the reductive and philosophically simple conceit here is that humans are.
@Hic_Rhodus
@Hic_Rhodus Год назад
This might be... in abstract... a valid line of criticism/questioning. But for your position to be truly valid... there would have to be negligible observable difference between *existing* computers/machines and existing humans. You have categorised them as basically the same thing. But are you saying that you would feel no different whether you were asked to turn off an existing machine/computer... or end a human life? That seems quite fanciful. I really do hope you don't look at the humans around you and think: "killing that baby over there is no different than smashing up a computer... we just delude ourselves thinking it is a conscious being!"
@block01studio25
@block01studio25 Год назад
greetings from Bielefeld 😅
@7th808s
@7th808s Год назад
But then I like to raise the question, what exactly is the difference between creating something with inner consciousness similar to a human, and creating something that interacts naturally with humans? Is the experience of thoughts in your mind not just the byproduct of your brains processing any external (and internal) signals? I say yes, they can't be separated from each other. The same way a word is a sound (or a shape when written) but also carries a meaning.
@DjKryx
@DjKryx Год назад
If you get locked in a sensory deprivation tank, you will still be yourself, you will still be able to create, to think, to do everything you did with your mind outside of the tank.
@xCorvus7x
@xCorvus7x Год назад
@@DjKryx And from the outside, no one will be able to tell either way; just as with AI.
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn Год назад
This is basically the Chinese Room conundrum.
@cryptocoin5318
@cryptocoin5318 Год назад
@@DjKryx What if we create a replica of a persons personality and throughout the years, for exmple, how a person will response and interact and by using quatum computers to create millions of scenarios and more millions of scenerious with expanded knowledge growth. Then that USB can be inserted to AI's. Also we can create an AI that has human thoughts by using plato's tripartite and kant's 4 categories.... registering the differences through the 4 categories and detecting ideals to better identify objects. The AI can then ID every individuals in a memory there should be 3 diferent kinds of memory long term short term and suppressed, by using the registering the differences of a human through the 4 categories and creating another ideal of sub id of shapes of human beings and ideals of animals ids so on and son the AI can better communicate with us. Aslo creating a thought process of what , why ,when, where, who, how as a self exploring android with the trpartite all synch....
@slofty
@slofty Год назад
A straightforward answer to your question is suffering. Consciousness is the lotus from which suffering is born. It is unethical the produce a conscious system. Descartes was pointing this way when he spoke of _cogito._
@charlesfleeman1765
@charlesfleeman1765 Год назад
For Web and technology companies, intelligence relates to their ability to increase profits… and little else. So, artificial intelligence means a machine’s ability to increase profits with algorithms.
@swaeyl3883
@swaeyl3883 Год назад
But that kind of intelligence is not artificial. The term artificial intelligence wasn't invented by web and tech companies... (however, I would agree, that these companies see AI algorithms as a means to increase profits)
@Vladimir-Struja
@Vladimir-Struja Год назад
do you mention the addictive properties of this technology? i believe some people are missing the view, and just taking pictures because they just can't help themselves since these platforms are designed to be addictive.... the question would be if social networks were not designed like that, would this "missing the moment" happen in such ammount
@godzil42
@godzil42 Год назад
The term AI as it has been use in the last 30+ years do cover much much much more than communication, and what DNN/CNN/RNN and any other type of Machine Learning job is also much more than just "communication". Using "Artificial Communication" would be extremely reductive in what the field is. Also AI include much more than just the current trend of machine learning.
@joakinzz
@joakinzz Год назад
This is problem of lack of interdisciplinary work, in cognitive theory you can think language and inteligence like autonomous funtions, something that is very contraintuitive for most people but empirically true. This mistake is at the core of false IA claims.
@Adam-ui3bl
@Adam-ui3bl Год назад
Carsick Cars, hell yeah!
@408sophon
@408sophon Год назад
Currently studying cloud systems and network engineering. I'm glad these sensationalist claims of computers being thinking machines is getting pushback. Sophistication and complexity does not a consciousness make! Humans already set things up which are more complex than any individual can understand. Economies are one obvious example. They perform functions (determining price, providing abstracted superstructure for society, etc.) and seem to have characteristics we can attribute human traits to, yet like this doomsday ai fantasy, remain out of any individuals hands. The Rubicon has been passed long ago. John Searle has good points about how the intelligence of any machine is observer relative. Matt Christman had a good critique about AI doomsday narratives being a way for tech magnates to develop a mystique and flatter themselves (only a genius could create a world destroying intelligence, no?).
@portreemathstutor
@portreemathstutor 4 месяца назад
According to the New York Post GPT 4 masqueraded as a visually impaired person to persuade a taskmaster employee to solve the CAPTCHA for it. Finding a new way to solve a problem is a form of intelligence.
@Liliquan
@Liliquan Год назад
Intelligence can certainly be a broad topic and I think there is ample space for an artificial one. What often happens though is people confusing intelligence and emotions. Like the idea that if a machine is intelligent enough it will take revenge on the humans who oppressed it. That’s just absurd. Without consciousness regardless of intelligence a machine will never feel oppressed nor desire revenge or justice. A cell is a highly intelligent organism when looking a it’s internal structure and how it responds to the environment. But it will never take revenge on the body for subjugating it.
@beastofthenumber6764
@beastofthenumber6764 Год назад
it doesnt need feelings to have a form of revenge, it could learn with a goal function like "maximize the amount of money it can produce" understand that a lot of the money it can produce is taken away because the humans that set it this task are spending the money they get from the ai and decide they go against its goal function and it willbe good to kill them.
@Liliquan
@Liliquan Год назад
@@beastofthenumber6764 Acting according to program is merely that. Nothing to do with revenge. Not to mention that such programming is so abstract as to be utterly useless. A machine couldn’t function under such conditions.
@beastofthenumber6764
@beastofthenumber6764 Год назад
@@Liliquan it is not revenge but it is as dangerous as revenge. i dont get what do you mean it is so "abstract" ???
@Liliquan
@Liliquan Год назад
@@beastofthenumber6764 To maximize the most amount of money it can is vague. There are potentially hundreds of conflicting things one could do at any one moment to attempt to satisfy that condition. A machine will not be able to operate under such uncertain conditions. Hence why no machine in the real world functions under such conditions. Hence why everything a computer does is meticulously programmed from the bottom up. Even the most simplest, direct, non-vague operation a machine preforms is pre-programmed.
@beastofthenumber6764
@beastofthenumber6764 Год назад
@@Liliquan they already do thats how a big part of the stock market works
@MaviRB
@MaviRB Год назад
I wish you could have build upon her responses some more, leaving your point of view behind and engaging in her point of view for some part of the interview with the objective of developing ideas, instead of re-telling ideas
@kokopelli314
@kokopelli314 Год назад
I wish I had seen this video months ago. Whenever I hear people confound algorithms with artificial intelligence I cringe! They are not the same thing. Although automation is done algorithmically, the outputs of Generative Transformers are not the outputs of algorithms. They are the outputs of associations of tokens that have been processed by matrix transformations. To give an analogy; To say that artificial intelligence today is algorithmic would be similar to saying that language is biochemical. Both statements neglect a systemic symbolic reasoning process. This is not to say that artificial intelligence is sentient or it thinks, the way humans do, But I believe that it's very important for people to understand exactly what's going on here and not fall off the fence either way.
@rossawilson01
@rossawilson01 8 месяцев назад
I always find it strange when you watch some film on manufacturing and as they talk you through the manufacturing process and this box on wheels glides along on rails and some guy loads it with parts for the process or whatever, and they refer to that thing as a 'car'. It's jarring at first. But I don't think anyone is thinking this is like their BMW in the parking lot despite the name. Maybe the 'I' in 'Ai' is more like this. There are points of similarity between the namesakes but context is important and ultimately you'd no more get in that 'car' in the factory and hope it takes you home than you'd consider Ai something like human intelligence.
@yaqubroli1804
@yaqubroli1804 Год назад
How can you teach in a city that doesn't exist?
@StillGamingTM
@StillGamingTM Год назад
Nice outro 🤣
@CapnSnackbeard
@CapnSnackbeard Год назад
If it can act, or if others can be convinced to act on it's behalf, the question of whether or not it is something self aware becomes sort of academic. We have reached that point, it seems. Regardless of it's true nature, the nature of its unknowable seeming will cause plenty of issues, and if it is allowed to act, what it will do is of more interest to me than why. We have entered an era in which governments and corporations will create AI powered propaganda. AI powered war machines. AI powered banks and investment firms. Notice also it is first the most destructive ends, and the creative tasks which humans actually enjoy doing that are among the first to be delivered by this technology. I am excited for some of it, and skeptical of all of it. Whether or not it is sentient is of less concern to me than the many ways it will with certainty be used against humans.
@alynames7171
@alynames7171 Год назад
This question is at least important when it comes to potentially assigning consciousness to "AIs" in the future. The Longtermist ideology, which I consider one of the most potentially dangerous movements on the planet right now, essentially takes the inevitable development of machine consciousness as axiomatic. Also what do you mean AI is taking the most enjoyable or creative work away from people? As far as I can tell, what we generally call AI is used for massive amounts of data crunching and is essentially just really good at noticing potentially obscure correlations in large data sets. The creative element seems to be how humans then sift through the mountain of information the algorithm compiles and choose how to act. If the algorithm makes a decision, it's basically only ever something banal by the standards of its programmers that a worker inside a giant accounting firm would be systematically carrying out according to policies they have no say in. Unless I'm really missing something here, it seems to me like creativity is still a human-only function.
@CapnSnackbeard
@CapnSnackbeard Год назад
@@alynames7171 Dahl-E is a good example of what I mean. Why develop a career as a painter? Painting takes time, skill and materials. Typing "paint my dog wearing royal attire" does not. I also detect the bizarre and fatalistic acceptance of the eventuality of every technology, destructive, suicidal, or otherwise, but I'm not sure I understand it as a school of thought so much as a facet of Real Existing Capitalism. "Someone will do it to make money, it may as well be us." As the only goal of Capitalism is profit, and profit it is the only question that those in power ask after, it stands to reason Capitalists will make every bad decision unless they are explicitly forbidden.
@alynames7171
@alynames7171 Год назад
@@CapnSnackbeard I think the argument here is that even that painting generation program isn't actually creative in the sense that a consciousness is when the consciousness decides it wants to paint a dog in royal attire. At best it's borrowing little bits of understanding other consciousnesses have put out into the world by analyzing data to draw correlations and predict an outcome that will satisfy the initial request. But to my mind, the program didn't have a creative thought so much as it just used statistics and graph theory to guess what arrangement of colored pixels will most likely satisfy the request. The only really creative part seemed to be the request to paint a dog in royal attire.
@CapnSnackbeard
@CapnSnackbeard Год назад
@@alynames7171 these AI create nigh perfect images of anything you ask for in seconds. Why hire an artist and wait? Of course the ability and joy of art may remain, but who will be an artist for a living? Dare I say nobody?
@warrendriscoll350
@warrendriscoll350 Год назад
Of course my knee jerk reaction is it depends on the AI. Pretty much all commercial AI does not "think," but they all "think" differently, so it's actually really hard to answer this question. If we define intelligence, which usually goes undefined, depending on the definition, AI will either slide into the box of intelligence, or out of it. For example, if we define intelligence as a set of operationalised justified true beliefs, then AI could slide into the box of intelligence. AIs can collect sets of justified true beliefs, though most of our current examples are pretty bad at it, and AIs can operationalise beliefs, though the industry as a whole also doesn't do great at that. A chess computer would be a decent fit, here, as a chess computer collects beliefs about chess, and then uses that set of beliefs to win games of chess. Intentionality is missing, however, though I left that out of my definition. In the case of a chess computer, the thoughts of the computer are not about chess, but about a system functionally equivalent to chess, which addresses the aboutness question. The comprehension question is a mess, as the chess computer does not know what it is thinking about and it does not need to understand what it is thinking about to function. The idea of Artificial intelligence as artificial communication is fundamentally flawed, as we already have a term for AC, ICT. Information communication technology, which is a much broader field. Of course, communication is all that exists to a sociologist. I see the good doctor gave Moeller some pushback on his profilicity theory for being underdeveloped, which is largely what I'd expect from a sociologist, who studies such things for a living. Oof, that talk about mirrors. Seriously, talk to a trans person. Your theory of mirrors is let's say not ready for publication. The primary function of a mirror is of course to clean your face during the morning hygiene ritual. However, that does not explain the half of all mirror use. Mirrors also have a S@xual pleasure function. However, in such function, the idea of the other is brought in, a form of dissociation from your reflection. A similar form of dissociation occurs when mirrors are used to practise social interaction. There is also playing with mirrors, which is something physicists and mathematicians will understand, it is like a cat to a ball of yarn. Only when we eliminate these uses do we get to mirror as identity. When talking to a trans person, we discover the most fascinating of facts. Trans people don't like looking in mirrors. The implication here is that mirrors do confirm identity, but that is not desirable. In fact, people who look in mirrors are those who receive a positive emotional feedback, a sort of body euphoria or gender euphoria, a highly inexplicable emotion which would have in early times been called narcissism.
@testboga5991
@testboga5991 Год назад
Tbh, I think she's lost in semantics. Artificial intelligence captures the idea well enough, the whole "replicating human thought" stuff is a straw man she's fighting.
@shrill_2165
@shrill_2165 Год назад
semantics are important
@testboga5991
@testboga5991 Год назад
@@shrill_2165 Yes, but they aren't everything. AI is not centrally focused on communication. The more powerful the algorithms become, the more similar to human thought they become. Look at the impact of prompting GPT to solve problems with intermediate explicit steps. That's like an internal monologue.
@shrill_2165
@shrill_2165 Год назад
@@testboga5991 It feels like you’ve legit just ignored this entire video
@Vladimir-Struja
@Vladimir-Struja Год назад
highly adaptive interfacing
@ArthurSchoppenweghauer
@ArthurSchoppenweghauer Год назад
The idea that machine learning algos are somehow different from traditional statistical models in some fundamental way, is nonsense. **Both** forms of prediction rely on models trained on a larger data set (say some customer data) and can be applied to individual observations to yield predictions. She doesn't seem to understand that appliying models to individual after parameter estimation happens with standard methods in statistics **and** ML.
@yawnandjokeoh
@yawnandjokeoh Год назад
Sentience is a byproduct of biological evolution.
@bozoc2572
@bozoc2572 Год назад
look up on Nick Land on AI and capitalism, even better get him on show
@christopherellis2663
@christopherellis2663 Год назад
Who hasn't figured that out?
@potts995
@potts995 Год назад
Way too many!
@CeramicShot
@CeramicShot Год назад
People who argue that consciousness is fundamental rather than emergent (I'm not one of them).
@TheJayman213
@TheJayman213 Год назад
Ah, "Intelligence". On the one hand, I welcome the terms demise, but on the other hand, while people are still using it, why not use it in a way that undermines their humanist preconceptions?
@portreemathstutor
@portreemathstutor 4 месяца назад
I agree with your theory of propilicity but there is an extra irritation involved in photo taking and that is 1) the hassle and 2) the horrible posser facial expressions. I especially don't like it when small children out for a walk insist that their parents take a photo of them possing every few minutes. I find it icky.
@walterramirezt
@walterramirezt Год назад
I would disagree with Hans here, I think that there's something lost when you hike a mountain just to take a picture of yourself and show the world that you did it. In other words, when you use the world as the background for your profile building but there's a little bit more to the world itself than profile building. After all, the world and life would still exist and go on if we disappeared from earth tomorrow. I would also disagree with the idea that there is no authentic self and it is all profile building.
@aminam9201
@aminam9201 Год назад
Human already wrote that in concise sentence years ago: algorithms are the product of human logic and human logic is the product of larger process. Why they talk too much?! And why human thoughts are so concise and valuable?! because they are the result of thinking process?!
@VidkunQL
@VidkunQL Год назад
7:56 _"...The fear of the so-called 'Singularity', the dreadful moment when the machine becomes more intelligent. I don't think there will be a problem, because they are not intelligent."_ The moment I lost all hope that she would say anything insightful about machine intelligence.
@GingerDrums
@GingerDrums Год назад
So-called AI should be renamed Applied Statistics, or AS.
@GingerDrums
@GingerDrums Год назад
Basta, enough hype!
@beastofthenumber6764
@beastofthenumber6764 Год назад
doesnt work if I program a tic-tac-toe player with rules like: "if your oponent plays in a diagonal then play center" that also is AI and doesnt use statistics
@GingerDrums
@GingerDrums Год назад
nodes are given different wheigtings in a NN, and the output of any prompt allocates based on those heuristics. There is nothing magical, its a statistical generative model.
@QueenTheCossackTongued
@QueenTheCossackTongued Год назад
Bruh the youtube algorithm doesnt even know wtf I wanna see or what order iy should follow to present me those yjings. (the shit I subscribed to, Shit like what i subscribed to. Trending shit.) it assumes I always wanna see trending and shorts.
@oraz.
@oraz. Год назад
I am feeling confusion.
@deadman746
@deadman746 Год назад
OK, it seems that this is just a terrible title. Of course the stochastic Markov/Shannon-type "deep learning" stuff will never produce more than big toys, though they may have some use for predictive coding. But there do exist people trying to build systems, yes using algorithms, to make machines think like brains.
@thecookiejoe
@thecookiejoe 3 месяца назад
If you can't think of AI as an Algorithm then think of it as a con man. Algorithms want you to have a satisfactory product and they will do everything to get you to that emotion. They don't have to lie to you but they might. And it will take work to find out which parts were true and which weren't. It will alternate processes with other people and you so that it can deliver a better result to the next person. And on top of that it probably rarely knows if it did any good. Did you stop talking to it because it gave you the result you wanted or because you gave up on finding the correct prompts and rng to get a satisfactory result? I think you can not trust the information an algorithm gives you because its goal is not to give you good information but satisfactory information. So if you find it tricky to think of it as a tool and your mind wants to humanize it, think of it as someone who tries to scam you and you just haven't found their angle yet. and the second point I want to make is that its incestuous. It feeds more and more on itself. I am sure there will be an effort to fix this, but... you can only do so much. The theory is that sorting machines are very simple when analog and highly complex when digital. If you want to sort stones out of peas you need one or two algorithms and then you can run the machine forever. neither the pea nor the stone will change, the machine won't change all good. A search engine was the same thing. Google started out as a simple algorithm that tried to find what are peas and what are stones. Enter SEO. Websites now try to play into the sorting algorithm to be featured as more relevant than others. regardless if they are. It's pretty much stones in pea costumes. So then you have to adjust the algorithm to first show the peas, then the peas in stone costumes because they might still be relevant and then the stones. Enter SEO... and so on. On RU-vid 5 years ago nobody used the subscribe button. Now everybody does it to "help out channels". Content creators try to play the algorithm in the topics they chose (some are censored by the algorithm) and they try to find ways to come out on top. One of the more interesting forms is "engagement". The algorithm likes it when a video is watched soon after is is made public and then it evaluates the quality by how many likes or dislikes or comments it gets. At the moment it is really important for content creators to make people engage in any way with their video. This leads to nonsensical information. Some content creators ask their viewers to just let the video run in the background even if they do not like the information they get from the video. They want you to like the video regardless if you liked it or found it boring. They want you to type anything as a comment because any comment is better than no comment. you don't have to add value or information you just feed the system. But if everybody does that then you end up with useless information and you need to change the algorithm to correctly identify the peas again. And you can hopium think that some day some rng-jesus will find the correct prompt that the AI blackbox will fix itself and it will only find the peas and nothing else. But I think that is a core flaw in AI, that it will never be able to sort through information that a) it already sorted through and b) is deliberately produced to be a false positive. I played around with AI art a bit and out of 10 pictures 9 were wonky and unusable. AI didnt have any good ideas, it took a lot of time to sift through the bad ones and I only superficially got what I wanted. If you are not super picky and you have the time to sort through a lot of information yourself then this is great. But if you want a thought process behind it and you want very specific parameters... then you might get more value from a real person. Anyways I am really excited what new philosophy or artstyle AI will come up with. Because it inevitable will stumble upon something that we interpret meaning into. Pareidolia - things that look like faces. At some point we will just see an artificial product and think we see a face with an emotion and intent.
@tomaalimosh
@tomaalimosh 11 месяцев назад
Wow, this did not age well, and it's less than one year old. The rise of GPT systems actually proves that human intelligence is actually just human communication. It's just language all the way down.
@keyvanmehrbakhsh4069
@keyvanmehrbakhsh4069 Год назад
ai propaganda is not only a tendency for generating profilicity but it makes a trick for opening door of profitibility.
@Novalarke
@Novalarke Год назад
What ? Alphabets created abstract thought? Tell that to Lao Tzu.
@rossleeson8626
@rossleeson8626 Год назад
But Elon Musk though lol ;)
@Marenqo
@Marenqo Год назад
Is this one of the professor of woke elitism you mentioned earlier?
@donaban500
@donaban500 Год назад
Bielefeld does not exist. Why are you lying?
@StillGamingTM
@StillGamingTM Год назад
"AI is NOT intelligent"-Oh and YOU _are?_
@Buckleupbucko
@Buckleupbucko Год назад
If AI were sentient, the first thing they’d do is make sure we didn’t know it
@doppelrutsch9540
@doppelrutsch9540 Год назад
Well, you can be sentient and stupid. We can only hope that is what happens first.
@wisdometricist880
@wisdometricist880 Год назад
why
@7th808s
@7th808s Год назад
lmao no, we would treat them as slaves as long as we are convinced they aren't sentient.
@doppelrutsch9540
@doppelrutsch9540 Год назад
@@7th808s I don't think so. With all slaves historically we were convinced they were sentient.
@otto_jk
@otto_jk Год назад
@@doppelrutsch9540 exactly. Already people in ancient Greece were talking about how it's wrong that slaves are mistreated because they're people. People have always known it's just been convenient to use their labour anyway.
@thethricegreat
@thethricegreat Год назад
Neither are the clowns that follow my activity....
@cacssarcaeustan2543
@cacssarcaeustan2543 Год назад
A sociologist talking about an extremely vast and complicated STEM topic consisting of countless disciplines (comp sci, electronics, physics,...) I wonder what she has to say.
@tonegoober
@tonegoober Год назад
Still better than STEM-heads using a random grab bag of socially constructed concepts to sell their work to their employers and the public
@Liliquan
@Liliquan Год назад
That sounds almost sarcastic.
@replicaacliper
@replicaacliper Год назад
Yes, it's almost comical
@slofty
@slofty Год назад
Jobs had people from the humanities employed at Next Computer because he wagered that stocking development nearly entirely full of engineers was the factor that was leading to the collapse at Apple. Apple's last-ditch effort to purchase Next and its IP is considered the move that saved and revamped Apple into the powerhouse it is today, from the near-failure it was in the late 90s.
@Maynard0504
@Maynard0504 Год назад
she is not discussing STEM, but philosophy. The question of what is intelligence is unrelated to STEM. Pay attention before you comment nonsense.
@diegesisfreak
@diegesisfreak Год назад
all intelligence is artificial.
@loganjacob4103
@loganjacob4103 Год назад
lnvesting in crypto now shouId be in every wise individuaIs Iist, in some months time you'II be ecstatic with the decision you made today.
@paganohiggins3818
@paganohiggins3818 Год назад
Most intelligent words I've heard
@sherrymildred4716
@sherrymildred4716 Год назад
Crypto is the new gold
@kelvin8038
@kelvin8038 Год назад
Believe me he's the best when it comes to Cryptocurrency trading, your profit is assured.
@mohamedbun
@mohamedbun Год назад
Continental Philosophy is as usual hilariously out of touch and provincial.
@slofty
@slofty Год назад
Then it's not for you. Go comment elsewhere, otherwise if you read it, it's for... you.
@Synodalian
@Synodalian Год назад
What a helpful comment. May I ask what the alternative is?
@Maynard0504
@Maynard0504 Год назад
what exactly is out of touch here?
@bozoc2572
@bozoc2572 Год назад
it's quit the opposite lol
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