Tbh i feel bad for Bjorn Anderson when he was heavily objectified at such a young age. His case remind me of Brooke Shields as well. It's sad that child actors in risks of constant sexual pressure without having respect of them merely as individuals.
@pikapikachuuu It is literally not the same. That was literally a lie. But it's also unreasonable to expect people to always write with letters that they *literally* don't have on their keyboard.
I find androgyny so attractive in men and women. But especially in men, I think a man being comfortable in leaning into more ‘feminine’ traits or styles is just very appealing.
How did you forget to add that women see bishonen as less of a threat than Hypemasculine men? I mean, its nobodys fault, but some guys just naturally look meaner and more aggressive than others - which makes feminine men seem a safer option.
I'm a guy who can look both cute enough to have babies smile when they see me and mean enough to have women constantly look over their shoulder in fear. Not at the same time, but depending on my clothing definitely. I'd say girls prefer stability over safety. If you're a normal looking guy, you're better off than being either mean or opposite of mean.
sorry, they aren’t “feminine” they are just not the same as a very particular western image of being masculine. Western idea of masculinity is actually not universal.
@@CarolineNiggAyaLee-Janet they are feminine from a biological point of view. Testosterone causes faces to be wider, jaws to be heavier, more prominent brows, larger muscles, larger and more protruding genitalia, etc. And men have much higher testosterone levels than women in the vast majority of cases.. These are biological characteristics which show up in every cultural and ethnic group of humans, so the world over, people have similar views of what looks feminine and what looks masculine. It is true that in some cultures, usually among the upper class in very civilized cultures, various feminine traits become valued in men, even in ancient Greece and among western European aristocracies where small genitalia and delicate hands and facial features were considered beautiful on young men. But whatever the fashion of the day may be, feminine features remain feminine features. It's a question of biology, not the whims of fashion.
@@CarolineNiggAyaLee-Janet As I said, it's extremely noticeable when they are next to other male, also Korean, characters. Nothing to do with "Western idea", they have more feminine features compared to the other men on the show.
One of the things about some bishonen characters is that they look white and pure but are often manipulative, cunning or pure calculated evil (Griffith, Ryo devilman crybaby). flipping the white=good guy black=bad guy thing on It's head. It's a great anime trope.
Depends on what you watch or read, bishonen in female oriented mangas and anime have way more variations, there s more tropes and all of em are all bishonen.
its interesting how all shoujo male characters have these features given its a genre that depends heavily on its female audience. this effect is not only seen in japan's pop and acting industry, but also in skorea china etc. makes sense why mlm fanfics are so loved specially in these countries
In the case of shounen, it is the lack of a well-written female character that makes mlm more appealing. Possibly the most obvious case to date is Naruto. Shoujo, not so much.
@@sholos4478 which is very unfortunate, i wish there was more information for young people (especially girls) getting into mlm media and teaching them boundaries because a lot of them don’t seem to know them :/
@@drunkpekka4284 it's very sad but it's true :( a lot of writers just don't spend much effort into creating interesting female characters. well i guess it's a topic for another day! lol
Tbh I love feminine beauty both on men and women. Idk why but I'm not attracted to wide jaws, buff muscles. I really find Korean actors and anime characters so handsome. And I realized majority of the East Asian male celebrities have kind of angel skull with V shaped jaw with or without surgery, and they're very slim+tall, these are the features what make them so different from celebs of other countries -especially Western ones. And I'm living for it, they seem like beautiful ethereal creatures to me sometimes.
@@lavonnealexander6936 how is it annoying. Everyone has autonomy over how they want their body to look. If men said all this fat/thick/skinny shit is annoying it would be seen as offensive. Let’s keep the same energy here
@@Yo-psych Yes I'm aware of it. I was talking about celebrities and fictional animated characters. Usually celebs and models are the representation of a country's general beauty perception.
@@helvete_ingres4717 Idk if my english is confusing but why these replies twisting my words. I didn't mention they being slim and tall is feminine, they look feminine OVERALL. I just pointed out how their face shape and being *very* slim and tall makes them *different* from celebrities of other countries. I'm not even talking about ordinary people. Because obviously there are many type and shape of people exist all over the world.
"Taller, slender men, are a rarer sight at the gym because the androgyny works to their advantage, and as such, they don't have as much as an incentive to get big and strong." BOOM! This! 1000 times this!
I actually disagree. I think current western culture is way more accepting towards overweight guys than skinny ones. The reason why you will find more fat dudes in the gym is because overweight is just way more common than underweight. Though, asian standard is different in that regard, especially japanese.
I watched spirited away a lot while growing up, and it took me 10 years to realise that Haku is a male. I always thought it was just sisterly love between Haku and Chihiro until that one time i watched it with my classmates, and wondered why they were all squealing over the "sisterly interactions"
I think we should clarify that being [a] beautiful/pretty [guy] doesn't mean you're "feminine/metro". I wouldn't call Howl feminine, neither the soft-faced anime boys that you showed as examples either. They're just pretty, but they can still have masculine traits too (like, for example, Howl).
It’s interesting how different people perceive a character as feminine or masculine. When I got into this C-drama called the Untamed, as an Asian American person I thought the main lead was an attractive man and didn’t think much about his gender expression. I only realized his character came off as feminine when I went online and read posts by a lot of English-speaking fans describing him as feminine. I wonder if because of the prevalence of bishounen aesthetics in East Asian media, people who grew up consuming anime and Kpop and C-dramas would consider certain characters like Howl as attractive men while more Western audiences would consider them feminine men. Maybe it’s because the ‘ideal man’ looks different in different cultures. In American media, the big, macho, muscular men seem to be one ideal model of masculinity. But in East Asia, I think the slim, scholarly, dignified archetype is more common.
My personal experience as a "Bishonen" man in the West is very mixed I have super hollowed cheeks with pretty eyes like Jordan Barret but my face is very long and I have a weak feminine side profile. It has helped me be successful with modeling work as I am a signed model. Though in terms of dating I would say its tough. A lot of western women dont fancy a Bishomen man in terms of sex appeal IMO. Any girl can find a feminine man pretty, but very little in the west do they also find them sexually desirable. I guess we are alt men. The most attention I get is from alt girls, which are primarily bi or pansexual which sees attraction in a more complex way.
Thats why I find this interesting. I see so many women in these comments saying how much they love more effeminate men , yet by and large most statistics show that white women date Asian men (who are generally more effeminate than other men) far less than the other races.
@@ebukaobieri exactly its a lie, or its a bias statistic in the comments where those that would date effeminent men are more likely to comment on a video that relates to them. When a majority of women see this video and are not sexually attracted to bishomen men wont bother to comment.
As an East Asian myself, I’d say this is actually pretty common throughout East Asia. If you watch Chinese animation (donghua), you can see this too-lots of pretty boys. In fact, I see a comment remarking on how popular Korean male celebrities are also quite effeminate (by perhaps western definitions) lol. It’s sort of just how East Asia is right now. Going back to China-since a lot of the media I look at now is Chinese-cdramas and cpop also feature similarly “effeminate” men. For example, Xiao Zhan is one of China’s biggest celebrities right now due to the popularity of _The Untamed,_ adapted from _Mo Dao Zu Shi_ (its genres, danmei (boys’ love) and xianxia (ancient Chinese-inspired fantasy), are also now often filled with these sparkly young men). And as another example, Zhu Zhengting is a popular cpop idol who is known for regularly wearing make-up. And many male Chinese celebrities have helped advertise make-up brands. It definitely helps that traditional Chinese hanfu and xianxia-style hair (long, flowing hair, inspired by the fact ancient Chinese people did not cut their hair) are all rather “feminine” when we are using western standards of beauty as criteria. That’s why pretty boys are especially common _in_ danmei and xianxia, genres that I’ve mentioned previously. You can see it in characters like Chu Wanning, Shi Mei, Xie Lian, Kong Hongjun, and more. And while China has definitely recently become influenced by Japanese and Korean media, it’s also got its own influences in-as I previously mentioned-ancient Han Chinese traditional dress, culture, and more. While China has been influenced by the west too where older Chinese people expect clearer depictions of masculinity, it hasn’t always been that way. One article I read said that it fluctuates; when China is in times of crises (eg WWII to Mao’s Cultural Revolution), more “masculine” traits are emphasized, while in times of peace, it’s less so (and the focus shifts to a more “scholarly” nature that is much softer). Right now, young Chinese people enjoy looking at and looking like those famous hua nanzi (flower boys). You can see it a lot on Douyin; fashion videos by young men often include make-up _and_ dressing up. But yeah, the bishounen is a common trend in arguably all of East Asia! Sorry I rambled so long lol; I have a tendency to do that. Many people forget about China in discussions of East Asian media, so I got a little excited there. 😆
This was really interesting! I knew about this culture in Japan, and noticed it in Korean media, but didn't know as much about the culture in China as well.
i must remind you that the clothing and hairstyle depicted in xianxia or wuxia or even a majority of historical fiction dramas (especially ones with romantic/comedic themes) are almost always inaccurate chinese males, upon reaching adulthood (about 20 years old), were expected to keep long hair neatly in a topknot, no fringes or part of the hair flowing behind, otherwise you would be seen as a barbarian or criminal. usually they were also expected to don a headdress of some kind, which can range from a simple piece of cloth to wrap around the topknot, a netting that kept the hair around the topknot in place, or various styles of gauze caps for more formal occassions or if you were a government official. another important thing for males regarding hair was they were expected to never shave after reaching adulthood (basically same rules for hair on top of the head), no matter how hirsute or sparse your facial hair is. the only clean shaven adult men were eunuchs or buddhist monks.
Atsushi Sakurai's looks in the 90s got really popular because of it's androgynous appearance as well. He also influenced in the way some characters, and specially villains, were portrait, showing a very mysterious and vapire like presence.
Indeed, he had such an alluring handsomeness and it would've been a dream come true to gracefully move my fingers through his long, sleek hair. Come to think about it, give him golden lenses and we would have a real-life Lord Orochimaru🐍
I am a female and if I don’t find a guy physically attractive I won’t look a second time, so to a big degree females look for good looking males, but this fact somehow is widely denied. I am asking myself why. As a biological being, I am as superficial as everyone else.
This video is wrong. Woman are human with attraction like anyone. If a woman doesn't find you attractive she wont want to have sex you! Unless you have money and status, and in that case shes only with you because that. Attraction is #1. For both men and woman.
@@TylerTong what we first see is the visual and women have eyes too - if it werent for the looks we wouldnt be able to tell ugly from pretty apart and it has good evolunary reasons for that. If I strongly disagree to sleep with a person, how in the world could I potentially have a real relationship with them? Yeah an ex of mine was pretty ugly but he was extremly good in psychology of attraction. It was pure coincidence because we never met to date in the first place. But it was chemistry/psychology which has nothing to do with looks and due to me spending a lot of time together in the work field. I would otherwise never want to get to know him, if not for the work. So physical attractiveness is a huuuuge deal in initial contact with a potential partner.
@@TylerTong Romantic love sure seems like a complicated thing. Even if I like someone's personality, or their looks, or even both, that doesn't guarantee that I will be romantically and/or sexually attracted to them.
@@dog_curry Short hair, more sporty, or outdoorsy clothes (like overalls) Male hobbies _are_ a masculine trait. A woman with facial hair would be like a man with narrow shoulders, wide hips, and thick thighs. Not very popular.
@@dog_curry Even these feminine men shown in the video are conventionally attractive. Of course we men would find conventionally attractive masculine women hot lol
Some people (especially those who hate "feminine males") really don't understand that being androgynous does not guarantee attractiveness. One can be a "feminine" man and look like a baba yaga. Attractiveness is more in line by their healthiness(not in terms of being buff, but in a medical sense) and how they seem to be capable of taking care of themselves. Usually looking clean and sharp will give off this vibe.
Loved the concept, this would’ve been great if you compared this animation with the typical Western animation with superheroes. The subtle differences and similarities would’ve been very eye opening. I always wondered why animators knew which facial features were attractive and what these conveyed and now I have a little more knowledge about why. Interesting stuff.
Amazing video! I'm 18 and have been watching anime for as long as I can remember. I'm not very knowledgeable about Korean culture and K-Pop so I can't really say much about it. But I've noticed that in anime, it's mostly the male characters with beautiful silky long hair (not saying that only girls have long hair) that always catch my attention. It all started with Yue in Cardcaptor Sakura! 😊 Other of my anime crushes include Hauru (Howl's Moving Castle), Jaeha, Kija (Akatsuki no Yona), The Undertaker (Kuroshitsuji), Neji (Naruto), Ayame (Fruits Basket)....etc 😅😁 Younger me used to think that's weird. I've accepted myself. Also, I've been able to learn about Bjorn Anderson and his story just made my heart sink. Thanks for making this video.
Wow! As someone who's studied anime and it's style I'm shocked I've never heard of bjorn before now! Thank you, I'm always happy to learn more about Japan, especially about anime art.
i feel like another huge reason would be the fact that men in japan have more softer looking futures compared to men in other parts of the world. skin care is also a big thing in easy asian countries especially Korea.
The ironic thing is that even Guts, who is usually presented as a very masculine guy, lacks something that westerns consider peak masculinity, and also defines bishonen: The beard.
Can we just appreciate the sophistication at which Qoves delivers it's videos......I mean I'd literally pay this narrator to just talk to me.His grammar is really good and the video quality sheesh
As a pretty boy myself it’s a mix, some girls are heavily attracted towards you and some are very intimidated by your looks/aura and may act bitter. Most guys around me just stare at me with a sense of weird envy or infatuation like ima alien. I don’t pay it mind cuz it’s also a energetic thing
@@angadgrewal9324 intimidated from insecurities in they self, when I look at some girls or they have to walk past me some will put there head down. Some act bitter when I have to conversate with them because they judge your natural confidence being yourself as being cocky, arrogant. This isn’t for all girls tho! I still get a great amount of love and respect from the ladies whether they are teenagers-young adults to mothers-elderly.
I'm a girl and I've felt that a couple of times before when I was younger. You're right about the intimidated part and how it stems from our own insecurities (because how dare a guy looks prettier than me 😂). But now I know better. Keep being pretty guys.
@@menyamustdie agree with that they got bitter when even a guy looks prettier than them they either see you as much more attractive choice of guy or just get bitter with you and treat you like shit and ironically when you question them about why they are so opposed to you they never say any physical thing even though they claim it is because of my look, they say they don't like how i look but when i am asking is it my eyes? my teeths? nose? hair? face? only thing i hear is nonchalant complimentary, but wait wasn't the thing you don't like was my looks? then why do you hate something you find appealing?
Feminine looking men attract women because they are less intimidating in terms of looks. They give off a more gentle vibe. This should not be understood to mean that it's better for guys to look feminine. Most women start appreciating more masculine looking men as they get older. Looking masculine won't win you the hearts of 16 year-old girls, but it'll get you more attention from girls in their 20s. And as for Berserk, the character of Griffith, who looks more feminine than some women, was more ruthless and blood-thirsty than Guts could ever imagine. Don't judge a character by their looks
Nope. Most women prefer a balance of masculine and feminine, as most studies suggest, well into their 40s. For example, most BTS fans are women between the ages of 20-30.
I just realized recently that everyone i stan these days are long haired guys with sharp jawline and chiseled abs. I had no preference over skin tones but I do have preference over race. Maybe it's because I'm an asian myself I prefer east asian guys or east-west mixed guys. For me, there's two types of androgynous look that I think is attractive. Both had long hair and abs. It's a main requirement. The first one is the pale vampire lord look. This is that guy who's tall, pale and had a slender body with a nice abs. He might have straight or wavy long hair either shoulder length or back length. Usually had jet black hair or pure white hair. He look as cold as the moon on a cold night. Mysterious and absolutely breathtakingly beautiful. The other one is the opposite, the werewolf type. That tanned guy with wavy long hair who had a lot of energy, perfect abs, had more muscly build than the slender vampire type. Is really good at socializing. Similar to the surfer/beach boy trope. The adventurous type who moves around like the wind in open plains. Like a beautiful colorful wildflower growing among all the similar boring looking grass. I just find people with that kind of vibe really attractive. Extremely buff guys with huge muscles reminds me of orcs/trolls in fantasy trope and they're like my 2nd least favorite fantasy race after plain human. Maybe this explain why I don't really like standard short haired basic looking dudes too. Is this why I'm single for 25 years of my life? Damn.
I used to look like the vampire guy you described. Back length wavy hair, tall, pale and very skinny. Very Introverted. During this time girls would barely look my way. Now my hair is shorter/medium length, I have a short beard, I have put on more muscle and my skin is more olive due to me working outdoors most of the time now. I definitely look more masculine now and I notice women will now look my way and smile at me and it’s much easier starting conversations with them than it was before. But despite this I still see most women my age (21) talk about how they prefer androgynous men but my experience is the opposite so I get confused lol
I have pretty good theory about women liking more feminine men and men liking women with some masculine edge.. As a guy, I always liked very conservative feminine women.. But many of them really didn't stand out that much to me and my friends. But when a girl started to drive a bike or say skateboarding or something similar,that totally caught our attention like seriously i really love female police officer controlling traffic.. I feel like I wanna see her face or just talk to her for some reasons. But if she overdo or have let's say more of this masculine traits then it was a total turnoff.. For atleast me.. She should be kind, gentle but have that rough macho side to her. And I don't know to what extent this applies to female to male attraction. But after asking my multiple female friends most of them pretty much agreed to my conclusions. So, I think the reason why this happens might be the fear of death and also fear of being separated from each other and our fears being evolved to the taking early precautions. Like if my wife and I had a son and if she died or let's say we get separated now I have to find someone or nurture our son myself by providing a mother's way of compassion and forgiveness or simply put to give him both side of parental love.. and if I were to die then same goes for my wife to nurture our son with father's way of love through discipline, understanding harsh realities, order. Etc. We may think like, it way easier to find another partner to nurture our kids comparing to adjusting our behavior for the long-run. But in this case we are talking about hunter gatherers era not our modern society where everythings are so accessible. It just my theory though☺️☺️
Great video, althought it seems to much that whenever a man goes to the gym is for getting attencion from women by working out and getting muscle, tbh most of the guys training don't really care of girls that much, they want the masculine guts body and style while women go for the more feminine and androgenious type as you said, it seems we both want different things lol
To add to some comments on K-“pretty boys” since they’ve also popped up: Sure, a “bishounen” face is liked, but on the other hand, it’s a widely known trend for women in Corea to like guys w “pacific sea” wide (very broad) shoulders, as well, lmao. And skin that’s blemish free (so tanner skin is liked in guys (sometimes even preferred) as long as there isn’t skin sun damage spots or the like (so “disease free”) clearly, largely visible)
I find androgynous men very attractive actually, and metrosexual man too (example: jojo). Men with feminine traits are actually pretty, but it depends on who you ask about. But they are very rare nowadays.
So you're telling that's the reason why i have a crush on Adrien Agreste/Chat Noir?🤔 (MLB isn't technically anime but still he fills every category mentioned on the video).
Growing up exposed to that male image through many asian medias, as a westerner, it did make me not see most men around me as desirable. So now I settle for at least long hair... when deciding my next crush for the month, lol.
I used to look somewhat androgynous when I was younger. Now in my late 20s, my skin is somewhat rough and my hair is slightly thinning. Not having that innocent look, especially within the anime fandom, has been hella depressing for me.
Same here, and I used to get flirted by older girls all the time when I was 12-15. I was skinny and pale, blue green eyes, light brown longish hair. (I'm Swedish). But now I'm quite big/wide and look nothing like I used to lol
This is why even though I always liked anime, I ended up being disappointed by them being always a means to show the perfect looking guy. Considering I'm the most average looking guy you can find, I don't relate anymore to the main characters. I find that sad and kinda depressing.
idk but typical shonen protagonists have that generic “look” to them that’s pretty relatable to most consumers. it’s usually the guy with black hair and average height, which ig is relateable to most japanese.
Idk how it is for boys or men bc tbh I have almost no guy friends but I can say that most girls and people I know definitely prefer feminine features whether they notice it or not. Too masculine is just not as attractive, maybe too rough or even a bit intimidating. And even if some anime boys or bishounen are taller, bigger, have lower voices etc. their features are usually still more feminine yeah. Esp in manga made with female audience in mind, the guys are almost always more pretty
Really interested video but I want to add something to the topic touched about anime characters that seems to fit in European beauty standards. Now, I'm not a specialist or know everything about anime/manga history and drawing but this a subject that I'm interested on so here some things I know about. Just from my experience in drawing I notice how it was easy to make a rounder nose appear weird or looking like a pig nose if you don't do it right and if you draw with few lines or just one line usually that results come out better as nose are difficult to draw. (That's just my experience and what I see many artist struggling with to, but that's doesn't mean that anyone never draws round noses, just that sometimes they are drawn in a simpler way/that takes less attention because noses in general are difficult to make, as I already said.) In fact, I just watch a documentary today with two mangakas and they discussed how early in the day nobody would draw faces straight on because noses were just draw with two lines, that means, from a side view. Then a mangaka that usually draw girls drew a female character face on a straight angle with little subtle dots for the nostrils and everyone follow his example. They also talked about the big eyes and one of mangakas mentioned how his editor advise him to make the eyes of his characters bigger to help showcasing the emotions, an advise that he followed and that worked/works. Also I think it's common knowledge for those that draw (or at least should be) that is advisable to draw young characters without folds or wrinkles on their face because it makes them appear older, so the cool wrinkles are usually reserve to old characters. With all this I just wanna tell anyone that yes, I do believe there are some standards of beauty being followed in manga and anime aesthetic, but don't go point out things like a little nose or a big eye and saying that certain artist just draw European faces (and yes, I already saw this kinda of "expose" happen), keep in mind that this set of face features could happen for other reasons like where the artist wanted the attention on the face be and what they tried to communicate about the character with the design of the face.
this is facts, i heard the same thing in an interview about Link LoZ's original designs, like his old design had a button nose, but then people pointed out the round nose looked "silly", so for Ocarina of Time, he was redesigned to have a more anime-like nose
It is common humans mistake cultural traits with biological ones. The culture of aggressive and hiper masculine man as beautiful standard is new to most civilizations. Young people, in general, were always picture the most attractive ones in all cultures. They are not feminine men, they look young men, teenagers, that's why most girls (teens) and young adult women like men like that. It is also common adult women and adult men don't find teenager's face attractive anymore, just beautiful.
I hope at some point you'll do the characters of Arcane - the creators clearly went the extra mile to animate them with idiosyncratic tics and unique features (scars on women, different types of teeth, different styles of hands) and it would be a treat to analyze them 💗
DHT (dihydrotesterone) matters a lot more in determining sexual characteristics than testosterone. If we look at race, there are virtually no differences in serum and free testosterone levels among men, but there's a much larger difference when it comes to DHT when comparing, for example, Asian and African men. One of the functions DHT does is suppress the functions of estrogen, which in turn suppresses androgynous facial features.
The only women I’ve come across that gravitates towards the feminine men were the girls in high school. Most women I personally know do not go for pretty boys but I’m sure there is plenty out there. Just sharing my personal experience.
like fr 😅 the audio was like "and bishounen often have gay or bisexual traits" with a clip of Andre and Oscar, I was like "...now that is wholly a man and a woman"
I found your chanel years ago because I am studying anatomy, body and face, always I can. When more I start to understand, drawing, and studying, more I see anime characters like East-Asian. To me right now is near imposible to see them like white north european. The Kotaku example you put here, analising anime faces, have been refuted with another better examples and analysis. This video is not half as good as your usually videos, I feel very desapoint with you right now, maybe because I always expect you to be the best in this subject. I wish you the best.
I feel the distinction is often made semantically too. Some grow up to be hypermasculine looking AKA "men", and some grow into a bishonen AKA "boys". I grew into what is referred to as a "dude", haha.
Please note than even before Bjorn Anderson, Japan has something that's called 'wakashu'. This is what I found : "Four hundred years ago in Japan, male youths, called wakashu, were the objects of sexual desire for women and men. Creating a third gender, wakashu looked different from both women and adult men and played distinct social and sexual roles." There is a wikipedia article about it.
Linfamy has a great video about it - japanese history was always very fluid with the concept of femininity and masculinity, even queerness and performing gender roles. Compared to our christian medieval history they were supremely gay. Which is awesome.
You didn't touch the last part "while retaining masculine traits" I think that the great appeal these characters have is in the combination of the feminine and the masculine which makes them feel more complete, like the yin is not divorced from the yang in them
The idea that women and men have different perspective on what women want is very apparent. Men think women want the muscular gym bro or hyper masculine guy but she doesn’t. Yes women do like muscle and masculine in general just not to the extent men think they do. Men projected the male gaze on the world that it even overridden the biological female gaze of some women and made women adopt it subs consciously (brainwashing) which is what led to many women being hyper sexual. The female gaze is very not touched on much which is why niches like yaoi or BL exist and is made of mostly straight women to have a field of literature and art that actually understand their desires in men. They like feminine and masculine features men balanced with muscle being more like Justin bieber in his prime for reasons as explained in the video. I think this is why many women like gay male relationship coz in BL or yaoi the men show emotions and are caring and the women fantasies for men in real life to be like that but because of traditionalism and biology men are more rigid and closed in general(on average) even in more open liberal countries like in Scandinavia which perhaps means this is biological because studies show women tend to have high emotional intelligence and love the romantic emotional kind of vibe side of relationships. If you don’t believe this clear difference in male gaze vs female gaze that exists; look at gay erotic fictions. Women tend to consume yaoi which has very feminine looking men and who are slender, tall and extremely “pretty” while you’ll find gay men tend to consume bara which is very hyper sexual, erotic, has less romance and the men are more muscular, super traditional looking typical hot guy, and got big shlongs or big butts because that is what gay men like in general. So you can see even when a man is gay, they still biologically have the male gaze because men are visual creatures and whether gay or straight they tend to like those more sexual than romantic (which women prefer on average) and the general difference in types of BL content consumption from straight women conspired to gay men proves that. From my perspective who is transgender, after starting hormone therapy I literally went from only liking men to liking women too and I started to like romantic emotional sides to things and started watching BL. This is because women are more emotionally intelligent and accepting which is why the hormones literally made my sexuality from rigid (only liking men) to fluid liking men and women. I still have my male gaze but after starting HRT I’m having this strong female gaze growing in my mind and I can weirdly control my emotion better and be accepting of myself. Idk how to describe it but yh
@@Shemale_Barbie There's definitely some truth to what you say, but I think you're way too caught up on this strange biological essentialism. This is almost wholly cultural, and the effects from your HRT are likely you simply changing your outlook on things to fit this biased cultural perspective; you have internalized feminine behaviour the same way cis men do with the "male gaze". The reason I say this is because I found myself becoming more as you describe simply because I allowed myself- a cis gay man- to embrace the more feminine side of myself, and thus adopted preferences more in line with the "female gaze" as you call it, despite never having transitioned hormonally.
Is not that, the hormones does also affects how women perceive men. The lower their lvl of estrogen the lower interest for masculine men. That's why you see girls more into those feminine looks and matured women interesting in George Clooney and some old fashion male. Also there are some researchs about women that take contraceptive which manipulate your hormones drastically and once they stop they can't find their boyfriend or husband attractive anymore.
@@chosenrubric7308 I’m not saying it’s all 100% but I’m suggesting it likely mostly biological. It’s common knowledge men are more visual creatures and women are more like the romantic emotional kind of mental vibes to things. For example when you said about yourself trying to be more self accepting of your masculine and feminine and kind of exploring the female gaze, it’s more of you literally intentionally and consciously doing it while when I went on hormones or for biological women, it is almost second nature and natural. There isn’t an attempt to even “try” it comes naturally as breathing is the best way to describe it. Which is why I’m saying in general the female gaze is biological to women almost like second nature and ingrained. While a male who hasn’t transitioned hormonally can still be able to try to see through the female gaze, but it is more like a “try” and attempt with effort being put in until you condition yourself to maintain being able to function like that second nature which can be difficult while biological women and transwomen who transitioned hormonally, it becomes almost like biologically programme and I think this is likely due to hormones and how hormonal profile shape the sense of self and instincts and kind of second nature aspects of women and transwomen who started hormones compared to cis men or transmen.
I love the point made at the start that women value emotional intelligence etc so much more than men understand. My BFF is dating a guy that shows he cares and doesn't make it seem like a hassle to stay in touch and to be honest, calm and vulnerable: and she is falling so hard because it's so rare to find a man like that!
Wanna make it clear for the men reading this comment: you dont have to imagine or think yourself as feminine to have emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is as masculine as they come. I personally struggled with the terminology and associated it with feminism or “weakness to be able to feel”. But thats not the case, when paired or exude with your own masculine energy or masculinity self, emotional intelligence is seen as extremely masculine
It's because tomboys are often pretty fit and look nice physically and also have a more masculine personality which is a lot easier for most guys to approach.
@@kaeez it's not a meme, some men really think of themselves as the "alpha" and make fun of the "beta" type, usually very insecured ppl. Also that's their preference, both masculine and feminine traits exist on men and women. If they prefer one over another, let them be.
@@kaeez focus on spiritual growth bruh. This world is falling apart and isn't worth it anymore. Don't let these women or society drag you down to hell when you're almost to the finish line. All these people with these twisted beliefs will reincarnate into this world over and over until they become children of this world. Their soul will be unable to leave this world that is becoming progressively worse
As a girl, this was 💯 my type. Now that I’m older, I still fall for the more grown version of this look, somewhere almost in the middle. Overtly masculine, LEGO jawed, big bulky low-browed men just terrify me tbh. Men have this ideal for themselves, and have no actual idea what women want. When women tell them, they go “no you’re wrong” You don’t get an opinion on that, beefcake 🤷🏻♀️
haha oh yes same here. it's so annoying how they try to tell me what I'm attracted to is somehow wrong and that I should really like their disgusting muscles and bald heads. I love when they say "well you must be a lesbian then"... uh NO. I'm a female, very much into dick, and I like me a pretty man. always have, always will.
@@junjae. good for them, you just proved my point. I’m not talking about them. I’m just so sick of women pointing out their individual preferences and having this shit thrown in as an attempt to discredit them.
@@junjae. True, but Henry Caville is still has some obvious feminine traits. He's also older and dresses differently than bts, but the mix.of masc and fem is still there.
@@junjae. not really a good example because henry doesn’t have extremely masculine features. he’s a beast and has a very admirable physique i don’t deny that.. but cmon lol he isnt the epitome of masculinity like all the teenage boys consider him to be. him and bts (some of the members) are similar masculinity wise. the only reason a western women would pick henry over someone like rm is because henry is “western” too lol .. plus preferences exist beyond such gender attributes.
I think regardless of the actual gender both men and women have a certain percentage of feminine and masculine traits. It's an individual thing. Some men have higher percentage of masculine than the feminine traits. Some men have higher percentage of feminine traits. And some have it balanced somewhat 50% feminine , 50% masculine . The same thing applies to women. We all have it to some degree. But most people suppress it to fit society expectations. We all have the mix of both feminine and masculine traits, it just varies from person to person. The society wants us to show only one either masculine if you are a man or feminine if you are a woman. And its stressful for both genders to meet these unrealistic expectations. It's about setting yourself free, finding and embracing both sides of you. The most attractive people are the ones who know and who are according to this.
@@oooooofburger4232 it's more than that. There are structures in the way humans organizate society, these structures follow the best of many aptitudes of each gender which humankind were capable of discovering throughout thousands of years living on the earth and they're are deeply craved in our consciousness for countless generations. What we see is just the tip of the iceberg of such wisdom that our brain can process and we call "gender roles".
I'm from Asia, and although I'm not an East Asian, I can still kinda explain the reason why these "bishounen" men are often drawn with white, porcelain skin. First, in feudalism times, a farmer who had to work hard outside will have dark skin while the nobles, who could sit inside all day, will have lighter skin. This led to classism based on skin tones, and we're still affected by it. Second, it is also the effects of colonization from Western countries, plus Japan's homogeneity. As long as you're a foreigner, you can experience racism no matter your race, but POCs still suffer the most.
Same pale vs tanned skin classism existed in Europe, from feudal times to 19th/20th century. The term "blue blood" originated from aristocrats and royalties having so pale skin one could see their veins and arteries, which look blue rather than red. This started to change with industrialization, when workers were inside factories and offices, while the upper classes started to get outside to do amateur sports, travel, and be outside in general. When workers started to get paid vacations (at least in Europe) and even more so when air travel became affordable even to workers and lower middle class during the 1950s and 1960s, *everybody* in Europe suddenly wanted to get tanned. Then we discovered the ozone hole and skin cancer... 😢
@@TheManWithThePsychoGun Same in the United States all these people using fake tans. It makes them look orange like it's literally looks unnatural. People should be happy with their skin the way it is I think.
Young white males suffer the most. They have been demonized. The government wants to keep the people divided. They want us to be distracted so we won't realize want they are doing until it is to late. DIVIDE AND CONCOR.
japan has always been self-hating and white worshiping. this is why anime characters that look asian are usually the villain or a clown while the characters that look white are depicted as heroes and good looking
I like men with feminine physical features that dress masculine. Is that you? Or maybe you mean an average to masculine featured man who dresses in feminine clothes? Or a feminine featured man that dresses in feminine clothes?
Guts facial design is half cute. I wonder if there is a term for that look. You see the same boy-man look in comic heroes all over Asia. One of the classic comics with this look is called 'Wind and Cloud' from Hong Kong. The oldest one is probably 'Golgo 13' from Japan. It's a popular look even in S.E. Asia. The Philippines has a comic named 'Panday'. Bishonen characters are often villainous whereas the boy-man type is always heroic.
Its the masculine good looking guys. The ones with great drawing, They have some boyish features such as full lips. I think miura based him on what the Japanese society deem attractive
@@Miuranger1 Is there a name for the archetype? I didn't even know there was a name for this 'bishonen' archetype. Come to think if it, the reason Spike Spiegel looked so cool was that he was a boy-man but with Clint Eastwood's body. They removed Eastwood's uber-masculine face and gave him the boy-man face, but they made the face long to match the height.
@@tobyjohn4682 Yeah, actually! Come to think of it, its normal for these boy-men to be either celibate or monogamous, even if they are hardcore fighters like Tokita or superkillers like Guts. Golgo13 is the only exception I can think of, but he doesn't seem to enjoy women and he always makes sure they're paid even if they aren't hookers. The bishonen guys are often after power and will use women to reach it. A common Chinese archetype is the trans-woman powerhouse. A guy does a ritual bottom procedure to gain ultimate power.
Maybe masculinity and the "perfect man" is just viewed differently in different places and cultures. I read about the Wodaabe tribe where men wear make and adorn themselves to attract women. Some women prefer big beard Jason Mamoa types and some prefer more pretty boys like Kpop/K drama leads, or even a combination. People should just accept that humans are different and like different things. The in-depth analysis over stuff this is a bit weird to me.
Agreed completely, I feel like a lot of the comments here often generalize a lot of things about what people are attracted to when in reality, everyone’s different, and that’s totally fine!
I live in Brazil, and the beauty standard here is basically "be hot", but i've always liked pretty boys much more than "hot masculine guys". Now, that i'm a kpop and kdrama fan, i'm in heaven. Even for my own persue of beauty for myself, i still prefer to persue being cute girl than a hot girl with big boobs and butt, which is the beauty standard here (like Anitta). Beauty is really in the eyes of the beholder.
I feel horrible for Bjorn Andresen, he was exploited throughout his childhood and teen years, my heart broke watching a documentary on his life 'The Most Beautiful Boy in the World' Also a small correction, his surname is Andresen, not Anderson
I think it has to do with the connection to the bishonen trope. Oscar is female, yes, but a lot of the women were attracted to her soft boy appearance and her masculinity. Think that would be a whole interesting concept itself tho, with how masculine women in anime capture everyone, regardless of sexual identity. Maybe he meant to present Andre in the shot, itself? On a side note, Rose of Versailles is my all time favorite anime. ❤
Yeah, she's mascile but when they kissed on the clip, he said "gay or bisexual undertone". Dunno if he used the clip as an specific example or just happened to be played while he said that. In any case, that kiss is a fully straight interaction tho
It's fastinating how different the west and the east define masculinity. You rarely saw extremly muscle men in the east media. And when there is they was portrayed mostly as villians (not even the boss, but the lowly stupid one)
Tbh the prasing of muscle macho guy in the west was quite a culture shock for me at first. I guess that how you guy feel when seeing feminine boy dominate anime too :"))
Not true. In india, bangalesh many south asian nations and middle east muscled men are prominent in movies even in african movies per se. Many women prefer muscular men who are strong willed an big heart and have helping nature. They are given a role of provider and protector.
The perfect balance of feminine and masculine is incredibly important in a truly beautiful person. In particular, male models will rarely be seen as beautiful unless they have certain feminine traits. Ultimately the time of hypermasculine archetype is behind us in terms of being the prime example of male attractiveness.
This is incorrect. Effeminate men are preferred in fashion because fashion appeals to women. Androgyny has nothing to do with ‘true’ beauty to the vast majority of people like you claim.
