Why Arcane Damage can Feel Unfair | Flesh and Blood TCG | Go Again! Ep473

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Despite the fact that arcane damage is a net positive on the overall game of Flesh and Blood, it’s easy - at times - to feel that arcane damage isn’t quite fair.
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2 мар 2024

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Комментарии : 48

@SWAT6809 4 месяца назад

I think the wizards off turn playing makes arcane feel more unfair than it is. I just view all instances of arcane damage above 3 as dominated attacks. I can pitch/block 3, rest hits. Tbf your bad draw reintroduced argument is a great analysis and something I hadnt considered in that way.

@MTVENGE 4 месяца назад

Arcane damage is so divisive - interesting to see what the new wizard will play like. You raise an interesting point about runeblades - i feel they've been purposefully kept off meta for the reasons you highlight. In our existing meta where kano can be sideboarded out and Vis/Vyn are on the lower tiers... The reality is they are both one or two cards away from being broken/nigh unstoppable. People like to rag on vynnset until they get slapped with a 24 split-damage turn and an 18 split-damage follow up. They dont often happen... But they can.

@roecker54 4 месяца назад

Good discussion of how arcane damage fits into the game.

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

Thanks!

@Paarastraza 4 месяца назад

I feel like it's important for arcane damage to be around as both a sideboard tax and a punish for greedier deck building/archetypes like redline decks. Having seen Chane, Briar and Viserai at their respective heights however kinda showcases how strong it can be when melded with above rate or even on rate physical attacks which is definitely why I think LSS has kinda kept the runeblades down of late. I think with wizards people just hate to compromise on anything, giving up sideboard slots sucks but I think the effect Kano would have on people's sideboards is probably a net positive.

@dozrFAB 4 месяца назад

i love wizard as a class. i think in concept having lots of interaction is healthy and interesting for the game. kano's combo potential is not fit for this game. fab is about back and forth, not "well i guess i have to yolo here and hope my deck kills you". iyslander, to me, was one of the best decks for the health of the game we have had. she was strong in the hands of a skilled player, but required that skill to be powerful. she required planning, constant decisions to play as and against, and made use of instant speed interaction in a supremely satisfying and interesting way. she also mostly chipped with small amounts of arcane damage, allowing AB to meaningfully help combat her strategy, while her access to ice and tax effects could affect the whole meta by making players run a bit more blues and be less greedy with their decks builds. i like the idea of wizards that have this push and pull, who make both players' decisions matter. i think future wizards need to be capped on what they can do in one turn, but be able to play on both turns readily. TLDR kano is toxic design because he has an unlimited ceiling of actions no matter whose turn it is, and he can pull wins out of thin air with no setup while also having amazing inevitability vs slow decks. wizards should not be able to take so many game actions on one turn to compensate for their ability to play on both turns to botb deal damage and disrupt their opponents either directly or indirectly

@SuperSaiyanKrillin 4 месяца назад

Great video - love content that brings to discussion some of the game's fundamental design. I think the game could definitely use more creative ways to 'block' arcane damage. Being locked to using Nullrune for some classes just feels like really awkward design to me personally. I'm sure the 'All Arcane' set will address this

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

I'm really scared about the concept of an all arcane set, what it might mean for the game.

@WayOfHaQodesh 4 месяца назад

Absolutely hate arcane damage and especially Kano. He's has got to be the definition of 'non interactive' and degenerate gaming or "negative player experiences". My biggest gripe with arcane damage as a whole is arcane classes do not have to tech their deck with solutions to deal with physical damage, whilst all non arcane classes must tech AB 1-3 or more plus tech cards , or silver bullets (Oasis Respite) which in themselves are notoriously bad for game design, as the more silver bullets printed and needed the more wacky and wild variance you'll have in your game. Really love FaB and you make some great points, fair points, and this is obviously only my subjective opinion, but I think arcane classes are terribly unbalanced, so much so that they've had to be nerfed repeatedly and yet they're still able to have blow outs in certain metas or with skilled pilots. If wizards had 1 or 2 blocks max and felt like squishy wizards who can't deal with physical beat down, of be all for it, but they've got time of 3 blocks and have no requirement in their equipment suits or deck slots to tech for anyone. The world of Rathe must tech for them, and not vice versa, and that really grinds my gears hahaha. Most hated class by far in FaB is without a doubt wizard. At least runeblades have mixed damage and they're still pretty busted. Still a great video and topic for discussion. Thank you.

@WylafB 4 месяца назад

Arcade damage dealing cards should have been 1 block imo not block 3. Thats how you balance it. Wanna deal hard to negate damage? Then normal damage is gonna hit you hard back.

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

I feel that arcane as a concept is fine, but I do think that the valuation they are using for it is wrong. I've been saying this since TOA, and you can ask my locals who are tired of me b!tching about it. It drives me nuts that the community at large is fine with cards like Revel in Runeblood. That card is mathematically busted - but because it's not winning, no one cares. Oh well. I'll go back to my corner.

@WayOfHaQodesh 4 месяца назад

@@DiceCommando Credit to LSS and James White for their take on arcane damage and arcane classes. I definitely hate sitting down vs them but that's fine, feels all the better the times I may win vs them haha... Don't have to like everything in s be game to play it and support it's growth. Will be interesting to see where James White and his team take talents and arcane classes moving forward.

@WayOfHaQodesh 4 месяца назад

@@WylafB Agreed! Squishy as wizards.

@Morventhus 4 месяца назад

The point of more equipment with arcane barrier is interesting. But I do think that solution would probably lead to situation where the equipment still makes you play unoptimally and still feels bad

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

Right now, many classes are forced to essentially run blank equipment slots in order to bring blocks. Compare that with Mech who has their boots and the vizio - ironically the "technology class" has better magic blocking... kind of funny. Warrior and guardians don't have any inherent class AB.

@Hodgepodge22 4 месяца назад

In blitz especially(yes Kano gone) when you only have so much life to begin with thats the prob. Ab 2-3 doesnt matter when you get to 8 life or less and cant do anything on your turn because of emeritus scalding and waning moon combo on your turn just kills you.

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

To your point, wizards really have a massive advantage in blitz due to that storm striders "one-use" being a larger % of overall health pool.

@theleoblazer 4 месяца назад

We have spellvoid, which is equivalent to bladebreak. We should have an arcane barrier card that has an arcane version of battleworn.

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

I think it's also essential to have said "arcanic blade break" be on equipment that does other things (re: Courage of Bladehold, choosing to 'pop for effect' or just block). Right now, nullrune in many cases effectively blanks out an equipment spot. This is a massive wizard advantage!

@andrewostman3135 4 месяца назад

The feeling of helplessness in your own fate plays a huge part.

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

totally

@lorpuz4664 4 месяца назад

Im being playint fab for just a few months how bad would you think of a mechanic where cards of your deck had aditional arcane barrier. Example a blue card that gives you ab 3 on that chain link when you pitch it. Although it feels similar to the "prevent demage" instants. But thlouse cards are only defensive 🤔

@silikdo6514 4 месяца назад

Arcane Damage feels unfair with the introduction of it and no sufficient gears to prevent over the course of the game that time. With nullrune gears it lessen these problems but make some hero suffering sideboard wise because you have to reserved slots for the nullrune gears.

@danielcruz4960 2 месяца назад

For me, the issue is created in the ab system itself. I can block 12 damage on an attack with blue cards, but I can't block 12 arcane with those same blues if I have ab 3 I can't block more than 3 regardless of how much I would want to

@DiceCommando 2 месяца назад

Definitely one of the points I make here - agreed!

@guilandarcana 4 месяца назад

I honestly still think that Arcane Damage should be errata'd in the rulebook. While, yes, you can still bring AB to pitch to defend, Arcane Damage should be defensible without equipment (thinking of gameplay, not lore), using the pitch value instead of the defense value. Just like normal defense, if you defend arcane damage using the rulebook, the card is discarded. As an example, when a Aether Wildfire resolves, and you have 0 AB, you could defend the card with a red and a blue card from hand, that would go into the graveyard when the action resolves. Not sure how to phrase it in the rulebook to make sense; but I feel like it could work.

@theatheistbear3117 4 месяца назад

Or perhaps you can still defend with the normal defense value but a source dealing Arcane Damage counts as having Dominate, which would in turn make Arcane damage still have the potential to deal chip damage and feel appropriately powerful (plus you can still Pitch for AB1).

@andrewostman3135 4 месяца назад

The problem with arcane sometime is how it is delivered. Kano can very much kill you if you draw an all red hand even if you have a 5....on your own turn....even if you do nothing and pass

@playtimetcg 4 месяца назад

I think the current card pool doesnt allow most heroes an effective way to deal with arcane damage while maintaining an effective way to play the rest of the meta.

@MrCrateraider3 4 месяца назад

Two things rune blade does too much arcane for being able to do physical. Second you said something intesteding arcane is blocked with pitch. Now if acrane was just blocked strictly with pitch it would be different. It makes it feel I dont have any way to block this to I have a way jsut like any other attach but I am using a different value.

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

Thank you for this comment! TCG players have such short memories - just because a Runeblade isn't winning right now, we've collectively forgotten that Runeblade math is such an inherently strong thing. I think the Runeblade class identity is so much more fundamentally busted that the WIzard class, even. The fact that a card like Revel in Runeblood exists - and we're all ok with it, apparently - is mind-blowing to me...

@MrCrateraider3 4 месяца назад

@@DiceCommando and think of how much deck wizardry and luck you need to pop off with wizard. Azalea has a play order, as well as brute but runeblade let me just plop my hand down and hit you with two types of damage.

@andrewostman3135 4 месяца назад

...it doesn't feel unfair to me ;)

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

Dirty, dirty Runeblade players :-)

@andrewostman3135 4 месяца назад

It may seem odd if you know me, but I hate the OTK viserai build... I view it as being boring and frustrating. Yes it wins and yes it can be inevitable and it just makes it suck

@davironanbelo7956 4 месяца назад

I don't feel like there's any problem with arcane damage. I just don't like Kano's gameplay that much... Not saying cards should be banned btw 😂 I've been playing against Vynnset and Viserai's "Looming Doom builds" and they seem really fun but not that great right now.

@jamesarmstrong7297 4 месяца назад

I think the main problem with arcane is not the arcane, it’s the off turn play. Iyslander, who was more limited in this ability, definitely left less bad than Kano, where it honestly feels like you really don’t need to be there and that the Kano player is just playing against their deck. I really feel the bottom line is that the way Kano plays is not Flesh & Blood, but a completely different game. That and that there should be a ‘shot clock’ on instants… if you can’t make a play in less that 5 minutes, it’s not really instant!!

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

This is my conclusion as well. The off-turn play should be limited to card interactions vs. a repeatable archetype. I still believe that arcane damage is valued incorrectly, and should *not* be valued less than physical. But it is what it is, I suppose, as they've continued to push this metric.

@NChambernator 4 месяца назад

Yoo why arent you covering star wars unlimited release??

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

I don't plan on playing that game at this time. Life only has so many slots, and I'm full-up. Many other great content creators in that space, many of whom supported Destiny for a short while. Check 'em out!

@jeremysmith5730 4 месяца назад

and if you ain't down with that we got two words for ya.......

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

Suck it, Go Again?

@jeremysmith5730 4 месяца назад

Either works depending on the situation@@DiceCommando

@theatheistbear3117 4 месяца назад

Perhaps Arcane Damage could be Errata’d so you can still defend with the normal defense value (or alternatively the Pitch value), but a source dealing Arcane Damage counts as having Dominate. This would in turn make Arcane damage still have the potential to deal chip damage and feel appropriately powerful (plus you can still Pitch for AB1).

@dumb_baby3012 4 месяца назад

I dont mean to be dismissive of peoples opinions or feelings on Kano but its just like really any other deck. You have to learn what they're gameplan js in order to properly counterplay. A lot of people just dont want to learn, they want to do what their deck does and then get mad when Kano kills them. One question i have for people is, why are you ok with dedicating sideboard slots to illusionist matchups (poppers) but not wizard matchups (arcane barrier and damage prevent cards)?

@maguz01 4 месяца назад

The problem with arcane are not the wizard, but the runeblades that are totally broken dealing big physical plus arcane all the time

@eeneranna9795 4 месяца назад

Can you please not use ai images in your videos? Is great content otherwise, but it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I see it. Especially when the game you're talking about already has thousands of phenomenal works is art already.

@DiceCommando 4 месяца назад

THanks for the feedback