Money. It happens all the time in every level of sports, successful teams will get their people poached by lower teams. Paying literally double the amount of money. Plus new challenges for them as well.
Yup the Eagles in the NFL made the Super Bowl after having a below average season the year before. What happened both the Offensive and Defensive coordinators got head coaching jobs.
Yea as much as these guys want to beat around the bush it's literally just money. Another team offers you a higher role with more money then you take it
Haha. Do you think Andy Cowell HPP because he was offered more money or do you think he was considered the best but doesn’t want to rest on his laurels. Pep Guardiola from Barca to sabbatical. Klopp to Liverpool. You can be amazing but if you don’t ever have a challenge your talent become stagnant and you fall behind the times. You stop pushing. These creative minds need to be fed and the only way to feed them is challenge. That’s why Adrian Newey took a step back after Vettels dominance. He needed a challenge so he did the americas cup, Le Mans. He races his own FORD GT team. Only when the challenger was to catch merc with the budget cap did he see an opportunity to actually do something that will challenge him
@@nateflores8160 biggest reason for the failure was the fact they wanted to do things "toyota way" and not adapting to fact how fast you have to be with developing your car. Only time they had success, kicked out that person as soon as possible
@@Cynderfan35 A good example of this is when they changed to Bridgestone tires for 2006 coming off their most successful year in 2005 and the reason was for commercial reasons and not performance reasons. The suspension was set up for Michelin tires and as a result Toyota was much worse in 06 than in 05
@@procatprocat9647yeah, give it a few years and maybe just after Lewis retires (a season or 2) Toto will go too. Vowles if he keeps it up at Williams, will be a serious contender for some big teams. He’ll be enjoying doing this at Williams though, a great challenge for his career.
It's natural for people to wanna leave because of cash. Red Bull are probably not giving these workers raises, and if other teams can afford to pay the extra price, people will happily go after it, especially since they got that extra bargaining chip of being in a top team for a while.
@@Redlingsteinyes. Which is why the 5th guy under Newey can't be payed as much as the 3rd guy under him at RB, but some other team might want him in their aero department for that money
i have a friend who works at mercedes, he does all the wind tunnel stuff, he decided to move to redbull as they offered him more money but said the atmosphere wasn’t the same and he ended up moving back to merc.
It’s not just raises, it’s promotion & progression - can’t promote someone into a position that’s already filled. You’ll have senior engineers, who can now add to their CV that they did XYZ that helped build a dominating car and try go for a director role at a team that believes they can help them. Look at Dan Fallows, after 15 years at Red Bull there’s no way he was getting Newey’s job (despite Dan hinting that he doesn’t do a huge amount at RB anymore). At that point, the only way for him to get Technical Director role was with another team.
I suppose if you're in the winning team you'll be able to get a promotion quite easily by moving team, but that's not so easy if you're in a backmarker team. So there's a lot more incentive to leave
Also a pay rise. People at RB are the most desirable right now because they know why the rb is good. So other teams open up their pockets but RB can‘t match it because of the budget cap
What they forget to mention was that there are people leaving the other teams as well to make room for the incoming people being replaced or redundant to the team.
I dont know for Mercedes, but at RBR, bonuses for drivers + staff are insane. Work as long in this dominance, earn incredibly whilst literally winning, then retire if it allows.
Mercedes had à very decent pay but RB offered more to them hence why quite some stepped over to RB and other teams as well. And you see that a team where quite some people leave drops a bit in performance.
Not how it works. These people want to progress in their careers and if all you're doing is winning all the time lower teams will be offering better positions and more money for your services. This happened with Mercedes and it will happen with Red Bull (and partially already has seeing and Williams, Aston, and some other teams have poached talent from around the grid).
Everyone saying "because MONEY!" is missing the point that no one is leaving for the same role elsewhere, or a step down, they're taking a step up that isn't available to them within RB. Then, when someone leaves, RB will either fill the gap by promoting from within, or they'll take someone from another team and offer them an opportunity to either step up a level or simply offer the chance to work in a winning team.
Slightly different but I worked on a championship winning ALMS team. Don’t get me wrong it was an awesome job, but the hours you put in and sure you get to travel to a bunch of different places but for the most part you fly to an airport, take a shuttle/rental car to a hotel, get up at the ass crack go to the track work all day, drive back to the hotel and repeat for three four days. Then off to the next airport. It can get really stale, sometimes you just need to shake it up to stay engaged.
I'd say money + bigger focus on yourself. Lower teams are of course willing to pay to get the best, and they do. Then if you're at the big team, it's a machine and you may just be a number, but going to a lower team, you might get a better position or chance of promotion, and a chance to maybe pick your own team and work with them from the ground up vs something so established there is no room for a lot of growth or change.
It’s true tho. At the end of the day, the climb towards success is usually the most fun. Once you reach that, you get to enjoy that victory for quite some time but after a while it’ll wear off and you wanna start a new challenge
Same as any industry. If you know your CV is improved by where you work, but you can tell you aren’t going up any further there, you’ll move somewhere else where you are taking a promotion by leaving.
This happens in other sports, the NFL for example. When a team has success, the assistant coaches move on to other teams to take on promotional positions. Yes, they are getting paid more, but quite often it is about being "the guy" for another team. In the case of Rob Marshall, being that he was under Adrian Newey's shadow he may have been feeling slighted that everyone talks about Newey's genius when it could quite possibly been Marshall's ideas that made the RB so dominant. Sometimes it is as much about getting out on your own.
Redbull has the best designer and one of the most complete drivers. In his prime. The rest help but are replaceable. Why would anyone leave except for more money
Aside from the money, I'm sure there are people like James Vowels who would rather work to a goal of bringing a team into the midfield from back marker, or go to Mercedes and bring them back like they brought Red Bull back, as a challenge. But the sport alone is tolling, so if you're just winning all the time it becomes the same, you either want something new or retire
It's always like that, empires and teams are a perfect example. They do everything right while rising, do everything right for a long while or a while while at their peak, and eventually thay quality will decline. Happened with the Roman Empire, happened with Mercedes, and will eventually happen with Red Bull, it's just how it is
I would’ve raced for red bull too if it wasn’t for having never driven an open wheeler, having never won or even competed in track racing, lack of money, the inability to travel and leave work. Other than that I’d be a multiple world champion in f1 and motogp. I’d also run faster than Usain Bolt, if I was just younger and faster plus I’d be more successful than Gates, Musk and Bezos combined but I didn’t know know anything about programming other than all that I’m basically the same……….carbon based life form
Money is certainly always a factor. But I think it’s also about opportunity. Take Dan Fallows for example. He was one the most important engineers at Red Bull, yet he would never had the opportunity to become Chief Technical Officer because Adrian Newey isn’t moving anytime soon.
sure but those meaningful positions are so few that it’s negligible. Those are just some top guys that everybody hears about. Other teams rather pay double for an engineer from redbull cause that hurts rb at the same time as getting one new great engineer with insights into rb.
I think another part of it is that dominance can be boring. Going and finding another project that you can help improve upon is probably a lot of fun for the engineerings of this caliber
I worked there on raceteam 2010/2015, people go to other teams, others go off to do different formulas, when they get poached by other teams it’s normally for money but many people stay as there happy with there work environment👍
As much as I dislike Toto, he really lead Mercedes in a remarkable way. They stayed hungry for a long time despite despite being on top and they had a lead driver who drove remarkably safe and consistent all while squeezing 95-96% out of the car for 7 straight years.
It's not about the goal, it's about the journey. The sweetness of being dominant in contrast with the struggle of getting there. It is the reward for hard work. I do think you can keep people for a bit longer to break as many records as possible. For instance: most wins in a row, maybe even every race this season. You want to be part of that, but after that: it is more fun to build on something new and until 2025, (preparing the 2026 car) that won't be their job.
Budget cap.... easy as that. Within the budget cap you cant raise worker salaries as much as you want or like. Then say Mclaren comes around and offers double the salary and they jump ship. It happened to Mercedes as well 20-21 infinite amount of reporting was done on merc people leaving to rbr and ferrari.
It's an example, they're not shitting on RB, they're just using it as a current example. I mean Alpine are currently falling apart at the seams too lol
what mass exodus? can you even name 5 people without looking it up? and why are you even bringing up Mercedes when the subject is about Red Bull? it had literally nothing to do with this subject. rent free goddamn
True. Success is fickle in sport, people will invariably leave regardless of success. Reaching the top means that all the people that brought you that success are now suddenly better. They become to big for that team. Everyone is getting better offers then just be were you are. New challenge yes but you just get offered more because now you worth more.
My first answer would be: Money. But when I think about it, after all those victories in these teams: You can only lose in the future, there is no chance in getting (much) better than this, you've already done everything possible to this time and you can't build these teams up anymore. You can win following seasons for sure, but you always have the pressure in doing it and noone will really thank you for that, because it is obligated. Supporting a team with potential can be beneficial for your mindset.
You got to think though even if people leave Redbull and go to underdogs you got to think people that were on the underdog teams and move to redbull can possibly accomplish more since they were doing so much with so little
Nah. In this respect, engineers are like drivers. They leave for a lower team because the salary increases. The vast majority do not go "in search of a challenge". Staying on top is the most challenging engineering work. So, such speculation does not hold water.
If you're a midfield or backmarker team you could do a lot worse than bring a midranking member of the winning teams in to take your project in a new direction.
My uncle worked there for 20 years and stayed loyal all the way from Jackie Stewart when he started Had a pace maker fitted then after two years of up and down made him redundant. He sat every weekend with the software on his lap top. Shame really but said he moved on to a better life. He was one with cut backs not long ago. Then they contracted Mercedes designer and that's why they are winning
At the end of the day, f1 is a job to many, including the drivers and not a game. People will move to whatever pays the most, putting passion and loyalty aside
It’s different for the staff. Some staff like adrian newey have a legacy there so it makes sense to stay even if other team offer him a little bit more money. Some staff are like normal worker where you just do what you’re told and not creating new thing/invention for the car so it makes sense to go to other team with more pay. Everyone is not the same
Some people like to bask in the glory but not everyone. Some people want that cash, some want a higher position, and some just want a new challenge to bring a new team to the top
There are some who will want a different challenge and some who wish to move up the ladder but just cant because the big name engineers at the top will frequently stay at the top until they retire, leave, or stop performing and any of those can take several years to happen. Like if someone at Redbull or Mercedes want to be in the position that Adrian Newey or James Allison are in then they will most likely have to look for another team. Of course those higher positions come with better pay and thats a big factor to their decision as well. After so many years its inevitable that a team will experience brain drain.
No one is going to be apart of a winning team and then decide “I think I wanna join a team that sucks”. That end part about joining a new project just for the sake it’s new, is braindead lol
Seemingly it's also quite a toxic environment. Just looking at how the top-level management operates, I wonder if that filters down. That being said, I wonder if its people leaving for a promotion that wasn't available at RBR.
If you were working there from the start and then like 5-6 years down the line the team starts winning and dominating at first I would feel great as you help build it up from the ground and now it is the best it would be the best feeling ever but then like 2-3 years your still wining you would want to move on. But as a die hard F1 fan like a super fan I do believe when the new engines come in 2026 that will be game changer also as Redbull are going to be making their brand new one of there own and I feel there going to be effected the worst. But it will be just what this era of cars need. Can’t wait
People at the pinnacle of an industry relish a challenge. Also not to mention being part of a dominant team looks amazing on the CV, so they get offered big bucks to go somewhere else
People like to shit in Toyota but they had this awesome front wing changing device for crash damage that allowed them to swap the front wing remarkably quickly. I don’t know why but remember seeing it in one race Martin Brundle commented how amazing that was and then never saw it again. RIP Toyota front wing changing thingy.
It stands to reason that they get to the top, stay there for a few season, then other teams start throwing around loads of money trying to get the talent that made red bull that winning team it is. Maybe it people going after position on other teams, but i think its all down to poaching team members for large amounts of cash.
That’s exactly how Aston pirated a bunch of RB engineers and they’re doing a helluva good job. It’s not championship material yet, but just one year to put that car to where it is now is insane
I’m starting to see a Schumacher, Todt, Brawn type of team at Redbull with Verstappen, Horner and Newey. Those 3 are unstoppable, so it doesn’t matter who leaves as long as Newey has his pencil.
When you are part of a successful and highly regarded team your value is at its highest, if you are happy staying there and watching the inevitable turning of the circle then that’s fine, but if you wish to be part of the next successful team AND earn more money then you have move. The lure of a new challenge and more money is enough to turn most heads, obviously Adrian Newey doesn’t appear to need Ferrari money and he’s happy with life at Red Bull.
it’s also the cost cap, if you think they might be out the top 3 staff who’s salary don’t get included within the cost cap at RB but are in that top 3 at a lower down team
Dont remember where but i remember red bull speaking about it. The teams poaching their staff are paying 3 times as much. Its not because red bull wont pay that much, its because they cant since they are already flirting with the top of that budget cap. They have to choose which people to raise the salaries of very carefully. They arent thinking "how much money do we have to spend" its "how much money are we allowed to spend"
How. Any Merc employees left when they were dominant? Not many I’d say, which is one of the reasons why they were so dominant. Retention of intellect wins
If you’re in a top team, it feels like you can only go down. You can only lose what you have. At the same time you’re as desirable for other teams as you can get. With plenty of possibilities for upwards mobility. Which means you can grow in your career. Take on a bigger role in a developing team and hopefully bring them to the top as well, which gives another opportunity for upward mobility.
I don't think people get tired of winning. I think it has more to do with poachers (money) and change of position to get more responsibility for example.
Unlike Horner Toto recognises that Mercedes can nurture and grow talent but Toto also knows the next step for some people will mean they will need to leave Mercedes as that next step is already taken within the team itself Perfect example is Horners refusal to allow Dan Fallows to go to Aston Martin yet Toto taking pride in his former staff finding positions at other teams (including Redbull)
There's a budget cap so staff can't just demand higher wages - they need to get promoted to better jobs. That's an easier thing to achieve if you move to a slower team.
Money. They can go to another team for much higher salaries as a benefit of their achievements with Red Bull. I think 3 years is not enough for people to get bored of winning and think about going to other projects.
You guys really think they're leaving because they're, in essence, bored of winning......😂😂😂 Anyone whose watched F1 for longer than DTS, will be aware that when your the winning team, your value to other teams goes up, and that means you can move to other teams for more money, or in many cases, more money and a higher position in the new team. Its no unusual for staff to move around just like the drivers. This has been happening since the 90s.
Why the hate? It’s an energy drinks company that has given the huge names of the motoring industry a lesson. And unless Newey gets bored, they’re there for a good while yet.
Money and opportunity for growth, simple as that. At a team like Red Bull, or Mercedes when they were dominating the grid, all of the superstars are at one team, the best engineers, aerodynamicists, technical people, etc… You can’t progress within the team very easily. At other teams, they’ll pay you more and give more room for growth into senior positions where your expertise can make a larger impact.
Other teams are offering them promotions within the paddock because they all did well and deserve to have more responsibilities. The problem is redbull has those positions filled
It's money and contracts, doesn't seem to matter Max is dominant. Merc' suffering due to the cost cap. Mid table teams like Aston Martin have a driver on less than Max so the coin filters down to staff.
Short and simple. People from a winning team are coveted and can earn a multitude of what they earn at a team like Aston who has money and ambition. It's 90% about the money.
A lot of people are more than likely being offered contracts from other teams so big that they cant say no to. If the other teams want talent they are probably being forced to offer contracts that are big enough that red bull cant come close to matching. For redbull this can be either a gift or a curse. Teams like mercedes or ferrari may end up paying so much for talent that they then have to let more people go than its worth. Those same people will then be free to poach for cheap by redbull. Im drunk rambling on a short so forgive me. But this happens every year to every top team ever. Being a part of a winning team is the strongest position you can be in when being offered a contract, especially from a rival
Engineers want to be challenged. They have perfected their art at RB, now some might have ideas that have been poo pooed by RB Managers and they want to try them out in another team
Redbull is no game Adept or out But even vertel did not grow up like max! He is made for this from kid His dad give him no room room for error Even left him @ a fual station 100.s of mile from home cause he didn win a race in kart !!!! Then afther his 1e championship and see max and his dad crying together ❤❤❤ Priceless ! Hope he stays till he got the most titels 🙏💪 Best driver all time !!!!!!!
Why are people leaving Red Bull? Because the same people that left Mercedes looking for something new won 3 championship in a row and can now go on to find something new again. + the #2s learned under the people who are leaving can leave also and get a title and pay jump .., at somewhere like Aston, Mclaren or Williams. But its also why all the teams should be Wary of Andretti and Cadillac as new American team needing experienced staff looking to go big like papa stroll.
I dont know with racing or f1 but being in a very successful company or whatever entity? You attract the eyes of everybody including your competitor. Your value goes up higher as well.
I wonder as well in terms of career development if there are opportunities for upward mobility at Red Bull. When you think about it, top management has been remarkably stable, but in any case promotions might not be accessible as quickly as you want them. Instead, go to the competitors, and get a higher position, because you're a Red Bull ex. Win-win, except for Red Bull.
@@derezzedqb No it won’t 😂 - if you really do your research and see who the team have as their “glue” they have some of the best people in the business - employees who left Mercedes was not the reason for their downfall - RB also have an internship programme and Newey trains educates and has several understudies
This is a budget cap issue. People are leaving Red Bull because other teams are under the cap and can pay people more. Red Bull used to match their pay but now they can't because of the cap.
Having the success from Red Bull on their resume is going to make them worth more money in the market. TLDR, they're probably getting amazing offers from other teams.
At it's core it's ALWAYS money. Red Bull can't keep everyone employed if the cost cap doesn't go up with inflation. Before the cost cap, teams could keep and poach whoever they wanted cause they could just throw money without consequence for the staff and car. Those days are gone.
They are leaving because RedBull has been on the top for a few years, which means if you are a current team member you are valued higher then you might be say next year. If Mercedes, for example, remembers how to build a car and wins the constructors championship then next year you are valued lower. It’s all about money….not “wanting a new challenge” BS!
