As a man who did formerly consider himself a progressive and even a feminist, I didn't choose to stop being a progressive or a feminist. It wasn't a conscious decision. I was excluded from those spaces and pushed away through the choice of language and the shifting and revealing of ideology that exists within them. It was clear I was not welcome because of my gender, my skin colour, and my sexuality.
Unfortunately our current generation seems to be paying for the misdeeds of prior generations. While I acknowledge the crap men have pulled, I'm not going to take the blame for it either.
@draneym2003 see I don't buy into that narrative. I don't believe that in previous generations, men were simply just brutish thugs who regularly beat women. I don't believe that men historically oppressed women by not allowing them into the pre-industrial workforce. Stopping them from doing dangerous and physically labourious jobs to their detriment. I don't believe that men historically didn't act in a manner that was protective of women and in a way that worked to provide them with a safer and freer world. I think men's out-group preference is evidence of that mindset. I don't like this narrative that paints women as historical victims, and I don't even like the narrative of feminism as being just a historical pure movement that went a wry in recent generations. I think there is a narrative that doesn't sit in ideas of equality that paints women as pure and good, and men as domineering and bad. I think Karen Straughan does a lot of good work in dismissing this historical: men bad, women good narrative. She uses lots of references in her videos, too.
As a long time leftist who still considers themselves "left libertarian" or "anarchist", I've stopped engaging with leftist groups because I always feel like I'm being excluded. I'm straight, white, and male, and apparently that is more important than trying to take on these corporations. It's "racial capitalism" or "patriarchal capitalism" rather than just "capitalism". Capitalism doesn't care what race/gender/sexuality you are, it will find every way it can to suck as much out of you as it can. In fact, hating straight white men is a great distraction that it can then co-opt and suck the life out of your movement.
@@TheSpecialJ11I used to be a Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders type of guy, so I agreed with a lot of ideas like helping the worker and treating everyone equally. But over time it became clear that "equality" was just a shield from criticism so that certain groups (Women, LGBTQ+, POC) could launch hate or extract resources/energy of any kind from white people and specifically straight white men. During the whole BLM thing it was pretty clear that what they mean by equality and treating everyone equally no matter what their identity they just mean treat everyone but white people with dignity. I mean for goodness sake look at Zimbabwe and South Africa in how they treat/treated under their White people under their so called "Egalitarian" regime. So I figured I would experiment with different ideologies and see what works. So far Aristotle and National Socialism have been pretty solid in helping me navigate the world.
@@TheSpecialJ11Also on that last part, any sort of movement which cares about the worker will CONSTANTLY be co-opted by liberals who care more about third world immigrants and racial/sexual minorities than the dignity of the employee or the actual citizens of the country. Occupy Wall Street taught me a good lesson on this
Worth noting: the men between 18-29 years old in the US still leaned left by a few percent on your graph, the gap in gender political views is driven by the huge increase in left wing ideology from the women, who changed from a left wing differential of +15% in 2015 to +40% now. Men are changing their political affiliation to a much smaller degree than women.
Great breakdown on the subject. As a man who’s 25 single and trying to make his Way through the dating world. I have to say it is hard, not on a financial sense by on a political/religious sense. Now you have to count in people’s mental health as well going on dates with different women. I’ve learned that a lot of them are still mentally in that high school type of thinking. And it goes both ways for men and women
You're on the money. I've felt this way since 2016. Any and all online tests and quizzes STILL put me as center-left, my beliefs evolved, sure, but my positions have not changed that much all things considered. Yet to most leftists I'm a right wing extremist now. For holding damn near the same positions I held since highschool essentially. Make it make sense.
3:13 - Cultural Misandry, original sin. 6:51 - Being shamed and diminished for who they are fundamentally. 9:27 - Feminization of universities coincide with its dogmatization.
As an autistic man (didn't get diagnosed until I was 40 though) I've been basically ostracized by both sides, but I'm certainly not going to listen to some "alpha" who's so insecure with himself that he resorts to soy boy insults.
I am a young black man with west African parents from Liberia. I have asperger syndrome and learning disabilities but I managed to graduate from college with an associate in arts degree and a Bachelor of Arts degree in Interdisciplinary Entrepreneurship Studies. I have started a high ticket dropshipping store that sells dinner tables and chairs. I don’t like Donald Trump but I understand why black men are leaving the Democratic Party it is absolutely galling to be told as a black man you hurt black women and everybody else hopefully if Trump wins they will learn that black men and other men have their own mind and will not bow down to anyone else.
10:13 Something I read in an old Matt Groening cartoon piece ... "Parrotting isn't learning." Learning systems like that are an indication of a failing learning system. Schools doing a poor job of educating boys (or writing off those results as "boys will be boys") is another indicator. The question to ask teachers, schools, and colleges point blank is what they will do about this: the trend is not acceptable. 11:55 Something else to consider: Single isn't necessarily childless. The number of children born out of wedlock (or with the father missing), or without a stable mother and father relationship has been increasing over decades. Progressives have been dismissing that (or at best, coming up with ineffective solutions) for a long time. Traditionalists have been ignorant and engaging in wishful thinking as well, and thus have also been ineffective. Women themselves have also played that role: it takes two to tango (or break off a tango). 15:40 Agreed. The key is that men should be men and not need to be apologetic about it (for progressives), or conformist about it (for traditionalists).
Have literally experienced everything you talked about. The sad part is most people want to find common ground but can't because our culture has become toxic, must have an enemy or your not interesting or important. Our ability to talk philosophically over ideas is dying too.
Being told that there´s something inherently wrong with you, just for being a man, is an awful thing to hear. Being told that you are not allowed to express yourself in certain ways or that you have "the wrong emotions" or that you should feel and be the way someone else wants you to feel and be - if someone treats their partner like this, that´s gaslighting. And that´s psychological abuse. It´s insane that people can openly talk about men this way and it´s completely socially acceptable. I don´t think most of the people who says these things are evil people that wants to "destroy men" or anything like that, but I do believe they´re not aware of what they´re signaling, and that they´re spurred on by the narrative at play - "for the greater good" - which never gives room for self-reflection and questioning.
@@paulthomas281 Personally I wouldn't say christian values have the same cultural influence on our society today as the commonplace political values. But the mechanisms can be similar or pretty much the same, if that is the case, I dislike them just the same.
@@paulthomas281 So, you pretty much admitted that "Progressives" are basically no different than "Religious Fundamentalists". They both think and behave the same. However, one group of individuals tend to have more power than the other. And that is obviously the issue in here.
Personally I think that the description of the progressive message that men are inherently flawed is inaccurate. From my progressive standpoint the term toxic masculinity simply refers to the harmful behaviors society expects from men. When I was in college 15 years ago I did not fit in because it was the expectation that a young man would party, drink excessively, try to have sex with as many women as possible and not value a relationship. I would define those behaviors as toxic and I would recommend young men not engage that way at least not to excess. Maybe things have changed but that was my experience.
Yes! These behaviors are EXACTLY the ones that come to mind when I hear "toxic masculinity." And all of them are, at best, irresponsible. If people are going to have a real discussion about "toxic masculinity," then its traits need to be specifically defined.
I respect your nuanced analysis of this issue. But this phenomenon of "toxic masculinity" (i.e. something inherently poisonous in males that needs to be flushed out) isn't really THAT big of a mystery, is it? Don't most young men figure out what's what soon after reaching puberty?
You really conflated red pill manosphere ideology with traditional conservative values. Those 2 groups are wildly different from each other and their prescriptions for men aren’t even close
You can ask the same question to young male Afghanistan men.. Why do they believe in an islamic state, supporting Taleban etc... Same reasons! As a man in Denmark, I would NEVER vote for neither a liberal or conservative candidate..
I don't mind the gender war... Actualy, i WANT it, one of the sides needs to win this fight so it can end, and i belive men have more chances of winning.
There’s women great points in here but one thing I’d wonder, is how of much of this do really face in our day to day experience and interactions with people, versus things like the heightened political or media messaging driven by algorithms designed to make us react, or very extreme activist messages which are only representative of a tiny percentage of people? It’s a bit like the mark twain quote of not suffering imaginary ills?
I am not an American, but I wouldn´t vote for Biding, because of way he handles the Israel-Gaza conflict. It is also insane how expensive going to a college is in the US. In The Netherlands going to college 4 years is a little over €8 or, 9000,-
@@Degast92 There exists plenty of scholarships and financial assistance. Some can attend University/College for literally free in many States. Especially Community College. And then transfer to a four year University instead. Effectively cutting the costs in half.
I am a business owner and when I have a customer that is a liberal man. I immediately will not do business with them. I had bad experiences with them in the past. And if they can lie to themselves they will lie to you
I used to be on the moderate left when I was younger, now at 40 I'm centre-right-ish...basically politically homeless....definitely not into the Progressive Woke crap.
Very true… At university I never felt welcome. Particularly at elite institutions, the dogma and enforcement of ideological purity suffocating. In 1984, George Orwell writes that it was commonly young women who were the most bigoted and religious in their belief in Big Brother. I fear, in many college campuses and high-end professional organizations, the situation is not very different. While much of the debate around gender around these man discussion/self-help channels revoles around how we men can change to better ourselves, let’s not be ignorant to how much women have changed. As the statistics from the Financial Times show, women under 30 have swung to more liberal by 30+ points in ten years compared to about 10 points conservative for young men. And men are still fifty-fifty liberal conservative given that relatively minor swing. Is it time we should begin talking about how radicalized many young women have become?
They're not radicalized, they vote for the one party that at least pretends to care about women's problems (socially and physically). Many are single issue voters (aka things like abortion). If you felt unwelcome at university, that's your own perceived feelings you're projecting.
@@Zeethos Sure. They have become radicalized to believe in an egalitarian society that respects a common human decency among all people regardless of identity. They don’t trust the idea of an absolute hierarchy that tells them that men deserve the many advantages they have in careers and workplaces designed by men decades ago. They evidently aren’t so keen on genocide either. It’s very troubling.
I some where that or someone was talking about online that theirs a peace of research that has been done that showed that woman may base their political ideals on trends which explains why their are liberal woman that become conservative if they date a conservative guy
@@Zeethos But women are not "single issue voters" on things like abortion lol. That is what "Feminists" erroneously assume. Just 30% of women believe that abortion is the single most important political issue. More women believe the economy and inflation are more important issues than abortion, according to recent polling. And the Democrats do not care about women's issues either. If they actually did, they would have kicked all the "Male Feminist" creeps out of their political party(like Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, Al Franken, Anthony Weiner, Andrew Cuomo and so on). They would not have accepted financial contributions from sexual perverts in Hollywood like Harvey Weinstein. Nor they would be advocating to prohibit firearms and remove women's ability to defend themselves. Nor they would be funding Israel to perpetrate a genocide in Palestine, where most victims are female. Besides, most women past the age of 30 tend to lean "Right" anyways. Most individuals in their 20's do not vote at all. About 40% of women in their 20's voted for Donald Trump back in 2020. Most women did not vote for Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden either, if the amount of women who did not even show up on election day is to be taken into account. Haven't we learned multiple times not to trust the polls already? Just some food for thought. P.S. I do not happen to be a "Conservative" either. In fact, I am an independent myself. In case you are wondering.
And once you see the misogyny and desire to aggravate men into being literal mass murderers. You will never unsee it again. Have you noticed in the USA and even a year or so in Japan, the people murdering in public. Mass murdering, will write manifestos praising the likes of Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, and Donald Trump? The right uses men's issues in the same way Andrew Tate does. To manipulate you. The left just doesn't care. And so this is the real reason why men go to the right
100% 29 year old former socialist who plans to vote far right this election. I have woken up and recognized women as my oppressors. Men have been relegated to a 2nd class of sexless slaves, doing the jobs that keep society alive, while being demonized and funding the social programs that entitle women to their behavior that they are a class above men. The matriarchy must be dismantled.
It's downright narcissistic to expect support from a demographic that you have nothing but contempt for. It's almost like they don't appreciate that this is a free country because they can't force people to comply so they resort to cancel culture, guilt tripping, and calling men out for having benefitted in an unfair and oppressive system which is just to make men feel indebted to giving their support. And It's either racist or sexist to simply not care.
And the right has gone off the extremist cliff into wackadoodle land. The left was extreme in the 90s and early 2000s, but the right today has gone way, way too extreme, more so than the left ever was.
I'm waiting for people to mature out of worshipping political value systems as a filler for identity. I've heard a wise person say that politics make a bad coping for lack of community. Also, I'm autistic, many like me tend to be super woke. But I've always had a contrarian streak. When I'm around very conservative or very liberal spaces, (as well as very religious/also the cult of skepticism) I'm masking. I don't trust politically oriented people. These value systems have become cults
You're close, but missing one important thing. Anti-progressivism isn't about insulting yourself and calling yourself names; it's about being real - primarily in the form of knowing your place as a man in this world. We are seen as less important and relatively disposable unilaterally in our culture, across all demographics and ideologies - so you might as well accept that and find meaning and purpose in living for yourself anyways. Instead of self-flagellating for some twisted sexist idea of original sin, live by your own code. Contrary to that, progressivism is inherently deceptive. It's the pie-in-the-sky ideology of HR departments and after school specials where if everyone works together we can save the planet and create a utopia - and the first step to this paradise is destroying White men. Make war for peace, amirite? When they're not openly bashing us, they're claiming the moral high ground with words like equality, equity, inclusion. But not once will you see them champion a cause that helps or only affects men. Circumcision, the draft, workplace deaths, falling behind in education, homelessness, the entire prison system, etc... If these issues aren't ignored or dismissed, they're derided and sometimes openly mocked. The hypocrisy is apparent to anyone who's on the receiving end. To quote progressives: the privileged are blind to their own privilege. It's a system of wishful thinking from a privileged class that relies on social bullying and, speaking frankly, laziness.
Wrong. The term doesn't mean masculinity in general. It means when men put down women, when men seek to control women, to dominate them, shut them out. etc. You have to admit that this has been a trend for thousands of years. History, dude. So no, it's not masculinity in general. Really sit and think on this and be a real, strong man: one who doesn't take crap off people, but is also kind, shows sincere respect for others, and fights for those weaker than he is.
@@Himmiefan you are wrong. Those habits you mentioned aren't masculine, they're inherently feminine. Nobody talks about talks about toxic femininity though but women are allowed to shame, ridicule, manipulate, control and shut down men. The weapon of the feminine is manipulation and shame. Hence, you are wrong
Politics has become entertainment and personal expression over the real organization and movement of groups. Political messaging is also designed to appeal to the emotions of more segmented and narrow sets of the population. Political parties seem to have learned the lessons of the advertising industry - you don't craft an simple, straightforward message directed to the whole population, you appeal to the emotions of a narrower audience and sell them a dream, an identity and a lifestyle. It would make sense that in a world where politics isn't based in communities and classes with material interests, that people would gravitate towards whatever personality *vibes* with them more.
America became the GOAT after ww2 . That was the perfect and most powerful version of the American Empire . And I am assuming young men like us want our country to stop losing to China and Russia . Conservative America was the most badass country in the 20th century .
@ManTalks Are you familiar with Scott Galloway? He's a liberal, but unlike most liberals he has the balls to call out the way they shame young men for masculinity
Yeah he actually says men need to build their muscles and improve their financial standing. When it was told to a pane on CNN that men were killing themselves some idiot man basically said it was a good thing. 😒😒😒
You bet, I've had Scott on my Podcast. Episode is in my channel here on RU-vid or you can find it on my podcast - The ManTalks Podcast. Scott is great and i'll be having him back again soon
There have been some fascinating studies on this. Turns out that both the left and right are full of narcissists, but they have different styles. Left narcissists have a high need for praise and recognition, hence all the bizarre virtue signalling. Right narcissists are more highly entitled and selfish, which I think should come as little surprise to anyone.
Idk what Gillette was thinking making the guy approaching the girl look predatory!! It was soo misleading! Approaching a romantic interest is extremely scary, for most guys! It’s already tough as it is!! But blaming ALL men for how a few men mistreated women is giving people wrong message. Idk if Gillette thinks but Soo far I think that if you are a good man (in their world) then the girl will automatically fall from the sky and you’ll fall in love!!! As most guys know the world doesn’t really work like that !! IMO west is gone! Get your passports and go somewhere else where women do understand a value men play in this world!
Yes, it‘s sickening how it‘s portrayed that it‘s just easy to find a partner and start yout own family. Personally I think it‘s easier to get a good job or a doctorate degree than to get a gf or wife where things just go smoothly. If women were actually in awe of men just as men are if women, we wouldn‘t have this issues. Good thing I found a kind and caring woman who would never have the mentally ill perception pf being oppressed. She‘s from the Philippines but I got to know her here in Europe as she was an aupair. We can live all the sides that are in us, she‘s actually devoted, just as I am to her, but we are independant while still being allowed to be vulnerable. Other women could take an example on her.
@@zareeftashfique8168 Are you referring to that infamous Gillette commercial(e.g "the way men should be")that was mocked and criticised to oblivion for being so controversial? Even Gillette admitted they would never make similar political commercials in the future because of all they backlash they received. It appears they eventually learned their lesson for good.
What is missing from this, is that the narrative, that women hae been oppressed, persists. If the left would actually admit, that rights always came with responsibilty, that women didn‘t want, and that men took good care of women, then we would actually make some headway. And yes, I totally agree with that men are being told from both poltical sides how to be or not to be. This needs to go. As men we should be free to choose how we live and who we are without being shamed. Censorship is tyranny, and I can at the same time be a man wearing pink and being cute while also apply logic and rationality. People have to stop policing who men are. Rather, each individual man lives in a way he wants and masculinity describes that, not the other way round!
I will always believe in equality, power for the working and middle class, progressivism in all its post-Enlightenment depth, lightness and equality. But i feel orphaned by my political persuasion. A lot of people of my age (50s) feel this way. I was brought up in second-wave feminism and didnt even consciously realize the deep shame that had been downloaded into me until well into middle age. It made me a meal for sh*t women, of which there is an inexhaustible supply. Its gone wayyyyy too far. So toxic, awful, abusive. I cant not see the whole gynocentric setup any more. But I'm not going to be swayed in my political beliefs. It's a completely different thing. And that's complicated but I'm OK with that. Be OK with the complexity. Thats the answer. If the Right wants to smear me with the absurd, ridiculous excesses of the radical extremes of my political persuasion, well, I'll feel fine considering them all QAnon. As far as modern third wave feminist women, Im not a fan. If they could be a little less abusive, deluded, selfish, entitled, unencumbered by accountability, shaming and ignorant that would be great. I cant even be around them. I have seen and experienced their dangerous, abusive misappropriation of feminism way too many times. I'm terrified of them, they are literally a mortal threat, they're like feral animals. The abuse and bigotry and sexism they deploy is criminal, and its all backed up by armed men with badges. I dont not approach women because im scared of rejection. Its because im scared of prison and being shot. This is a rational fear. I do not suffer from anxiety or phobias or any such thing. I dont want to be killed or jailed. The sh*t i have seen. Our species has evolved interesting adaptations to avoid trauma. I am adapted to stay away from dark alleys, armed people, unbalanced conflict, icy roads and women. Dont complain to me or judge me. Judge my unconscious threat mechanisms that keep me safe and breathing. Yeah. It's that bad.
As a firm lefty who was involved in organizing and volunteering for progressive parties for a decade, the modern left has completely lost the plot. I’m literally done with it. It hardly even qualifies as politics anymore, I’m out.
Men have a role, and women have their own role as well. The problem is more and more people are doing what they feel is best for me, and in turn telling others this is the right way. When you abandon the laws of God(which I am a believer in Christ) we will go astray and have problems. The Creator knows how we should live, as a good parent looks out for their children. We who are selfish and proud individuals don't God is like the strictest, but also most loving parent possible. If my daughter says I have these qualities then I would feel honored.. The Bible predicts this great falling away from God for the last days here on earth.
Times are changing. I'm an out Trump supporter and dating a liberal woman. Women are dropping politics to be with masculine men. The pendulum is swing back. I'm thanking the stupidity of President Biden showing them the truth.
The pendulum is swinging back in CERTAIN circles, amongst non white circles and especially non white women they are becoming INCREASINGLY liberal/leftist where as white people are becoming increasingly conservative/right wing.
@@GigaNietzsche Minority women are not becoming more "Liberal" because they agree with such political ideologies. They mostly lean "Left" for financial reasons, because they tend to value the "Welfare State" more than White people do. If anything, minority women are even more "Conservative" on many issues than White women.
It's one thing to welcome people of all different backgrounds (race, sexuality, etc.), it's another thing when you force certain viewpoints. DEM's are going off the deep end on some basic facts of the universe. Not that REP's are perfect, but there's a reason that marriage is a thing... it drives evolution. Politically, I consider myself "libertarian in theory, conservative in practice." I'm not a fan of "woke" DEM's, or REP's who just repeat what Trump says. Amongst the girls I've dated... I've found traditional conservative (religious, close friend group, structured lifestyle, self-sufficient, etc.) gals to be the most likable.
@@boromirofmiddleearth557 I don't dislike Trump. I'm expecting to vote for him this year, and Biden is incompetent. I dislike people who just repeat every word that comes out of Trump's mouth (any politician, for that matter) without a mind of their own.
Better than biden is a pretty low bar to reach. While i would agree trump is better, he is not exactly the type if man i would want my boys to look up to and model their lives after. The lesser of two evils doesnt make the lesser good
