Why B&M's are getting SMALLER 

Mini dives have been popular in Europe for quite a while now, for example Barron 1898 at Efteling is actually the smallest dive, is my favourite dive coaster even over rides like griffon and Yukon striker, the drop is still good and verry punchy despite not having the scale, and the rest of the layout has decent forces, with the theme and presentation being the cherry on top

Small Scale Dive Coasters with shorter layouts have been a thing since 2011 Starting with Krake at Heide Park in Germany Then started picking up steam with Oblivion the Black Hole at Gardaland in Italy in 2015

TBH I think a lot it is also room, there just isnt enough room in many of these parks for these super large 200+ ft coasters. Making room by removing whole parts of a park just isn't feasible for a single coaster for most parks, 150+ ft is a solid size that is just big enough to wow the crowd and still draw attention.

You made great points in your reasoning with the money aspect as well as the oversaturation of other B&M coasters (lol Dorney has 2!) But I think it's unfair to slight them for not really pushing the limit with this new coster. Considering this is their first new one since 2005 and Cedar Fair seemingly putting them on the back burner, I am glad the distant 3rd place (maybe 4th place) park in the Philly area is getting something to get people to walk through the door. Dorney is the closet park to me by time and distance and I've been to Hershey and SF Great Adventure a ton more.

As a rider and a Canadian rider of Yukon, it’s better then Sheikra (the only dive I’ve ridden)

The last thing I expected clicking on a roller coaster video was a carti leak instrumental in the background lmao

Love this video! Keep up the great work

Do a hot take 5 I have a hot take, raptor at cedar point is underrated

the reason for the name "iron menace" is because dorney park has some iron factorys next to iron menace which is why it has the name that it has

Hi im a brit at 5:20 he points out that a b&m wing coaster is only 65 feet and i can tell u that the park (chessington world of adventures) its located at is for familys and children idk when but at some point chessington had a flat ride that was for the teens and adults market ( I also dont rember its original name only the name it was given after being relocated ) and they removed it and relocated it to thorpe park and theme park targeted at teens and adults so the reason its 65 feet is cause they wanted it to be suitable for children and chessington dosent strive from that as shown when they removed the flat ride for teens and adults

South Whitehall also has a height restriction. That’s one of the reasons why.b&ms have been good to dorney with talon and hydra, plus you have no dove coaster on the north east. I can’t believe dorney beat sfga and Hershey park to a certain coaster style. Also prepandemic dorney was possibly going with a wooden shuttle coaster. Im glad they scrapped that and went bigger

The parks make the ending choice. Iron Menace reminds me of a bigger version of “Baron”

that's all true but mandrill mayhem went to a family park so of course it is less intense and chessington can't build above the tree line so it would naturally be shorter anyway

Went on mandrill mayhem on sla school end of year trip and I have to say it is the best at Chessington but it’s SOO small. That’s a theme with Chessington.

They can do things with small spaces so parks don’t have to remove other attractions and with dogs be coasters they can make steep drops to get the desired speeds without getting too tall

Baron 1898, Krake, Oblivion the Black Hole and Valkyria have been around for years and are all about the same height or shorter than Emperor, Iron Menace and Dr. Diabolical. There's nothing really new about smaller dive coasters.

What's your opinion on why Kings Island didn't make Orion top out at say 326+? They went epic with D-Back and Banshee...I think it was more of a Cedar Fair decision, partly because of not wanting to top Millennium, and because they wanted a GP pleaser vs enthusiast pleaser.

mini dives sound better then the bigger dives… parks would rather spend money on a good quality ride with a good layout then a simple one trick pony like Sheikra and Griffon. those rides were only built like that to break records and fuel coaster wars so they aren’t as great quality.

hey coastoons, on the topic of dive coasters could they be a giga coaster? i mean it could be possible

Shrink faction is also with roller coasters damn

Then you got the S&S 4D which no matter how small it'll drain your entire bank account. Thank god Magic Mountain is close by and X2 is my #1

One word, Inflation and in this case, ‘Shrinkflation’

Coastoons do a video and Valley Fair please

Acting like small dives are weird is funny. Look outside the United States for once

Your wrong, what are you talking about? Fury 325 is big, they make what customers want.

Man I miss those big giant b&ms

They’ve made inverts a lot tamer

So, B&M dives ARE NOT getting “smaller”, they are returning back to original size. SheiKra was DESIGNED to be a record breaker. Griffon was just supposed to be the sister. But then coaster casuals *ate it up* and then suddenly Valravyn and Yukon Striker had to become a thing. Now that the economy has been screwed by 2019-2020, smaller parks are getting their hands on smaller models. The appeal is the DROP, meaning whatever you get is just gravy. Oblivion, the MOTHER of all wasn’t a 200 foot beast. It played on darkness and the diving motion. As for Iron Menace, it’s supposed to reference the literal local steel mills that made up the backbone of the local economy. Allentown has built itself ON that legacy. Iron Menace also plays off the neighboring Scream Factory and its metal theme. It makes sense. As for your cheap shot at DarKoaster, it’s meant to be a stepping stone between Invadr and bigger coasters. It’s not meant to be a capacity monster. It’s an air conditioned appetizer for bigger things. And considering I was 12 when the OG opened, I rather DarKoaster happen than another Dark Knight Rises coaster.

B&Ms are expensive regardless of size. If parks want to save money they aren’t putting in a B&M. Wing coasters aren’t very intense and while they may look nice they don’t draw in the crowds like a dive coaster. People today prefer to ride a coaster with one big drop then compact elements after which is why RMC and Intimin is so popular. Big loops and immelmans aren’t super intense elements and very generic now a days. This is why B&Ms are shrinking unless they are hypers. Compact layouts are more intense then massive element to element layouts.

It isn’t just b&m gravity group is almost exclusively making family woodies now

Wasn’t Emperor planned before the pandemic though?

If only there was a b&m hyper invert.

I don’t get why everyone hates on floorless coasters

I'm actually mad that Dorney decided to get a dive coaster, they could've easily used the money to RMC Thunderhawk, get a blitz coaster, a wing coaster, or even a taller floorless coaster. But no, they decided on a short and tiny dive coaster. I get season passes to dorney every year because it's my home park, and I honestly don't know if it's worth it anymore

"200 feet for an invert!" The tallest invert is literally less than 200 feet and most of them are closer to 150. Also B&M just got done making a wave of massive gigas and dive coasters for Cedar Fair parks.

They want to stay on TOP! Ride manufacturing is a TOUGH Biz. Look how many Big ones gone the way of the DoDo. Pricing, competitiveness, book keeping, made a lot of companies go UNDER! Not to mention down time, accidents, deaths.

Sorry to be that guy...but...it's Chessington World Of Adventures, not Chessington park.

Mandril is just small because chessington is a kids park

If kings island goes with a dive I’m boycotting them

you act like Oblivion dosen't exist

yoooo

You act like B&M didn’t start small lmfao and dorney doesn’t need ur money anyway literally trashed iron menace

I wish B&M would go back to making the aggressive and whipper rides but it doesn’t appeal to GP as much so that’s prob why they are tamer now

There were no smaller B&Ms. Firebird, Patriot, Vortex, Batman the Ride, and many others: AHEN

Prediction before watching the video: cause they're too expensive.

I'd say this is actually a common trend that the pandemic just amplified. Usually when a new coaster model is introduced (especially if it is a new type of coaster) there is a rush to build the biggest, record breaker. Then at some point it just doesn't become economical to go after the record so parks focus on smaller ones. It happened to stand ups, to inverts, to now dives. Eventually a record breaker might be built again, but years after the competition ended (see Banshee). At this point, unless you are going for a giga dive, trying to take the record from Yukon just ain't worth it. Another factor is B&M is finally trying to break into the family coaster market. This means creating new models (see seaworld Orlando 2024), but also retrofitting older models to family (what they are doing to the wing). B&M was the only major manufacturer that didn't have family coaster models. Now they are tapping that untapped market.

You didn't even mention Maximus at Legoland Deutschland. There's your tiny wing coaster that isn't even a launched shuttle like Mandrill Mayhem. I expect more of those are on the way, especially in Merlin parks.

I think market forces in general are also forcing B&M to change up their strategy and offerings. Like you said, most big parks already have multiple large B&Ms and despite variances primarily in their train style and elements, they are all kind of same-y. I think Pipeline and Mandrill Mayhem are good indicators to look at when considering that B&M is realizing in order to stay relevant and in-demand, they need to start innovating again in creative new ways and be more adaptable to different park sizes and needs. The coaster wars are over and they need to start being a compelling option again for an exciting new ride in the face of RMC, new-gen Intamin blitzes and shuttle coasters, Mack extreme spinners, etc.

I live in the uk, the only reason why we have a 60 ft wing at chessington is cause it’s a park which primarily focuses on children’s rides cause that’s their audience, young children

I think it's a mix of many things. Space, Price, ROI. These rides are built for the GP not us enthusiasts. They'll get a similar ROI on a 150ft ride as they would a hyper. That's just how the GP work. You make it look scary and fun and it's a hit.

'Chessington park'... (And yes i have been on Mandrill Mayhem but the reason it's smaller is because Chessington World of Adventures is more of a family park) (It was also the first B&M I went on because it is smaller, I've been on Galactica too now, I'm trying to get over my fear slowly).

smaller dives i postulate is because of cost for parks & the increased use of vest restraints requiring stronger airtime (95° drop) since you can't just float anymore (just like woodies when buzz bars went away)

The reason why B&M aren't building the large coasters anymore is that the large rides that they built just don't attract the guests they used to in the 90s etc. They aren't the hottest hot, new and shiny. Even GP has seen multiple rides of that type when they visit parks, so the value isn't there. When large coasters are built nowadays, they end up still being a supporting coaster for the park, which isn't worth it (Gatekeeper comes to mind, don't know if Yukon has really drawn in huge crowds etc). Smaller scale B&Ms aren't cheap still, but they are a very reliable supporting coaster, that can still appeal to people. Hell, I think that parks have seen too many warning examples of coasters from less reliable manufacturers ending up as maintenance nightmares that end up costing more for the park than a B&M ever would, which is the reason why these smaller rides are now catching on. For example, Cedar Fair isn't working with RMC anymore, but seems to be going for more B&Ms, despite the latter being more expensive on paper. Expensive to build, easy to maintain and reliable supporting coasters, that pay themselves back over time almost certainly. Save the more risky investments for the headliners. --- Also, as others have pointed out, smaller B&Ms have been all the rage outside the US for all this time. "The Biggest" and "The Fastest" marketing has just been very effective in America, which lead to larger coasters being built.

Weren't some of B&M's first coasters smaller stand up coasters?

I’m kind of happy they need to do something different I think. B&m have been kind of unexciting to me lately maybe they’ll start taking more risks to bring the brand back to the spotlight. I love big rides but like you said, EVERYONE has a huge b&m coaster

The argument about emperor, dr db and iron menace is so wrong like the "mini" dives have been a thing for years over here in Europe, i dont see how its so surprising

back to what u said they kind of have done this with inverts cause the most recent one was monster at grona lund and its very small/short/compact so i wonder if when they ever build an invert again its gonna be that small scale

Also the smaller dives seem to be easier to theme ex: Baron, both Oblivions and Krake

I really like your style of videos but you are way too US-centric (in every video), and that's okay when focussing on us-centric topics, but when talking about an evolution of a manufacture you can't just look at whats in your country. The smaller dive coasters were instruduced 12 years ago in Europe, and were really succesfull (Krake, baron, Oblivion the black hole, Valkyria). In this Video you are acting like Emperor was the first small dive coaster lol, it's just a concept from overseas that caught on in the US. Besides, I think you left out on a major reason for the models shrinking. One of the main reasons parks go all out for height are world records for marketing, but nowadays, the records to brake are just too high, looking at the dive model, the record is at 220ish feet, thats insanely high for a dive, parks don't have the amount of space and/or money at that level of height. And if you can't get the record (which every tall dive coaster did in the past, just to be outclassed from the next one), why build tall? if you can't market it as the tallest dive in the world, the crowds wont care if it is 30feet taller or smaller.

Space is a big one, most major parks are very fully developed from the coaster wars of the late 90’s and early 2000’s Unless you’re KI or Dollywood most high attendance American parks don’t have much land to fit large new coasters without removing existing attractions. For example the last new coaster at CP that didn’t take the place of an existing attraction was Maverick back in 2007. and the smaller ones with the undeveloped land don’t have the attendance to justify such large scale additions from a budget standpoint.

What about nemesis, oblivion and air/Galactica? There small in height but all 3 are amazing rides

I think people who have never edited before don't appreciate the amount of work that went into editing this video. I mean, WOW, GREAT JOB! Of course your content and delivery is also awesome. I have to ask from a perspective of what i should be doing on my channel: did you edit this all yourself or do you have a team?

B&M Intamin and Rocky Mountain Construction are the best coaster manufacturers in my opinion

Well, I'm just glad my home park has the tallest Dive Coaster. It's sad if B&M does down size the rest of there up coming coasters.. B&M should make more Kumba style rides IMO

I've been on mandrill mayhem and I'll say its an amazing ride just not much when compared to something like the swarm

B&M still offer the larger model coasters. But parks want budget friendly options that offer a good experience. Rides are getting shorter and shorter which sucks for enthusiasts but for the GP and park they are marketed as a brand new ride. Most people when they hear Brand new ride, 90 degree drop, loops etc they get excited. Coaster enthusiasts are like.. Umm... it's been done before, breaks no records, is short, not all that great honestly... The GP and marketing budgets/teams of these parks greatly outweight the coaster enthusiast population (sadly). SeaWorld Orlando is a prime example of this. In 2016 they installed a B&M Hyper, It did good for a few years but hardly ever had a line. They have moved to Ice Breaker and Pipeline, both much smaller, shorter ride experiences. Still brings in the crowed for a "new" attraction and are marketable as that at a fraction of the price.

Dorney is my home park so I’m really excited about it but if it was bigger longer faster it would be better but it looks like a good addition to the park

It's not because they "cannot afford a bigger coaster"... It's because the cost of steel went up, and to build a coaster thats 200ft + would cost significantly more than what it would have 10 years ago. It has nothing to do with not affording more, it has everything to do with they can afford what they used to be able to buy, but that same price has now shrunk and they can afford what they used to be able to which results in smaller rides.

I think Iron Menace looks better than Dr. Diabolical, tbh. Diabolical may be a little longer, but the mid course comes so soon and trims so hard it kills the pacing. Then the second half drags. No mid course means that Dorney's ride will at least keep the speed and thrills to the end, even if it's short.

There is a even smaller Wingcoaster at 55.8 Feet at Legoland Deutschland, and unlike the one in England it´s a full circuit coaster with a Lift Hill. Looks kinda wrong to see a short 5-Car Train and tight Elements on a Wing Coaster, but from what I heard so far it´s still apparently a fun ride. That being said, I feel like most Parks began to understand that just having the biggest, fastest, longest and most intense coasters kinda doesn´t matter. I mean, why bother with building a Giga to please a few Enthusiasts and maybe win an award or two when at the end of the day a Hyper is probably going to please the crowds at least as well, if not more so because it doesn´t look as scary too them. Same thing with the Dive´s, a 150 footer looks more managble to the average park guest than a 200+ one.

Awesome

In my opinion it's because they realized size doesn't matter, it's how you use it. (If you know what I mean)

whenever i see a new coastoons video im so happy

there's a 55ft wing in germany at legoland deutschland

B&M builds what parks want and what the chain want to spend relative to the park. Dorney is a small park bottom 1/3rd of Cedar Fair parks they aren't getting a massive B&M b/c the finances of the park don't support the needed ROI. The same can be said for why Sea World San Diego got a small dive(height limit) & smaller park in the chain so they got 11-12M coaster while Sea World Orlando got a 20M+ B&M Surf coaster. Also this same park size and finances is why Kings Island got a 30M B&M giga and Dorney got what they got. To summarize this all., manufacturers will build whatever parks will pay for.

Your take on B&M makes no sense. They are not getting smaller they just build what the park wants. Kind of like automakers you can get a sports car with a basic V6, V8 and then the ultimate performace. Example the Mustang. Also its not like B&M has stopped building massive coasters. In the last 11 years they've built 3 Gigas, longest invert, tallest faster wing coaster, 2 massive dive coasters, 2 awesome hypers. Dorney park doesn't have the budget or the need to build the "est" of a coaster.

I'm okay with it a small dive coaster in a park like Dorney. That being said. I don't really like dive coasters to begin with. I love them before I actually learned more and more about coasters. I road Valraven and although I did fly out of my seat falling on the first drop, the rest I couldn't care less. Its older so it had a shook and I felt a lot of positive forces on it, especially during the Valleys. I'm ALL IN on RMC, and Intiman blitz coasters. Follow by a hyper. So after they take care of all of those, perhaps a smaller dive would be nice. I rather them get an interesting rail coaster or hell RMC new wild mouse which I thought was silly till I watched it a few times.

5:37 Meanwhile Der Schwur des Kärnarn at Hansa park who didnt sacrifice any intensity for theming......

Not making a trip to Dorney for Iron Menace? GOOD, WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE!!! LESS LINES FOR THE NEWEST GROUND-UP COASTER IN THE PARK'S HISTORY SINCE 2005. DON'T BE SUCH A BABA BOOEY NEXT TIME!!

People want taller, faster, longer and greater intensity. I think the parks are only looking at their investors, and if it means sacrifices to their additions, so be it! At least the board is happy, yes? We have little kids riding all the B&M at Wonderland and they love it! It's clear that we have reached new heights with scare tolerance, we need more!

I will say though about pipeline, a part of the reaspn why stand up coasters were so painful and uncomfortable was how forceful they were which really wasnt great considering you're standing up.

My feelings are still hurt that BGW didn't put in a B&M flying coaster where Big Bad Wolf stood. Verbolten is a such a travesty on that piece of land it sits on.

first

The layout is giving Six Flags vibes.

I think this is happening to all coasters in general. The family thrill coaster market is expanding rapidly with companies such as RMC joining in. A lot of parks are going down the family thrill coaster route because they already have extreme rides, the GP will like these rides more as they're less intense, it appeals to a wider audience and they're cheaper.

There are small dives all across Europe. This isn’t new.

Yay

Bro finds a way to complain about literally everything

Chessington is mainly a family park, but I feel when you have a ARROW SUSPENDED then you could justify maybe 100 feet for the family coaster

Mandrill Mayhem ain't even the smallest Wing Coaster 🤣

Cost??? Parks aren't ordering bigger ones?

and what about baron 1898 it got built almost 5 years before covid and i believe this is one of the shortest ones out there

still waiting for the “i was wrong about dragster” video

5:27 Lego land dive ;)

Shrinkflation strikes again 😔

It's called Chessington World of Adventures, not Chessington Park smh my head 😤😤😤😤

B&M and saving money because stuff is not cheap right now and their Hyper Coasters and Giga coasters are still monsters B&M will make bigger rides if a park wants them B&M is going nowhere they are still one of the best coaster manufacturers in the world

Why are you dunking on iron menace man. The tallest ride at Dorney is just over 200 ft. They ain’t building higher, also, dorney is small they don’t build big coasters and if you live near dorney like me, it’s cool seeing it even getting a new ride.

How the mighty have fallen

this really shows it’s not really about what the park ask for. i mean they give a idea but it’s really what b&m wants to do