Thank you INTO THE AM for these Elevated Everyday Graphic Tees! Get yours now and get 10% off site-wide when you click the link below: intotheam.com/DragonShirts THE BIOSHOCK GRIND IS FINALLY OVER. These videos have been huge projects. I streamed an entire game then made a 20+ min long video essay every week about every Bioshock game for the last month or so. THANK YOU ALL FOR WATCHING! Now it's time for a break.
I feel sympathy for Booker/Comstock, he did feel genuine guilt over accidentally killing his daughter. Booker also did seem to genuinely care for Sally, he tied Suchong and tortured him for hours just to find her.
Jarek: I like Burial at sea's Elisabeth. *An army of R34 Artists: We do too* Ken Levine: I also like Elisabeth - hell I love her as a daughter, but please please PLEASE do not draw her getting railed by two burly minotaurs with dinglenuts the size of anti-tank missiles. PleasE! (Felt compelled to add this little addition)
@@smugplush I have frequently heard of that little detail. I find it quite funny. Its like...basically think of a dad who has a real life daughter, and he knows some guy is basically sausaging her like tomorrow doesn't come, but ain't all that excited about that.
@@lonedrifter9879which will only encourage them to do more. This is called the Streisand effect. There a RU-vidr called Jaiden animations who has a ton of r34 art made of her and she well aware of that. But she doesn’t acknowledge for that reason.
The "ace in the hole" part really annoys me. Like, it's explained that Fontaine bought Jack as a embryo from Jasmine and had both Brigid Tenenbaum and Dr.Suchong making experiments on Jack so he could control him with the phrase "would you kindly" but according to burial at sea he did all this and never bothered to ask what the phrase was? Really? What sense does that make?
Burial At Sea is a classic case of torching the series and running for it. Because the rights to Bioshock were to default to 2K, Levine decided to do everything he could to make sure that they wouldn’t have anything to work with, at least with his characters. That, and him ignoring/retconning Bioshock 2 is due to him not having written it, as only his games are the important canon ones. Yeah, he got rather petty, didn’t he?
any proof of this or that just copium? Because Ken Levine never wanted to retconned anything, nor is even proud of how Infinite turned out. Funny you mentioned Bioshock 2, because the developers of that very same game help develop infinite when 2k Merge both his studio with theirs. Oh wait sorry you were painting a narrative he's some villains instead of idk, a Normal introvert who just wanted a small indie project that suddenly turned into an overblown (and yes, I agree, overhyped) game. But hey, every fanbase wanted someone to blame. But this aint it chief. He aint the sole writer too, nor is proud of how the plot went, he had a LOT of help from Drew, the guy who wrote Far Cry 5. Yes, that Far Cry, the one with plot holes.
@@tittiezvagena9569. Gonna need a citation for him never wanting to retcon anything seeing as he retconned his own story multiple times; If you think he's somehow innocent, I've got a bridge to sell you. The only one coping here is you.
To bring a little balance to this reply section. While I do not know of the source you are relying on (though I would love to see it), I am willing to play the devils advocate for a minute and assume he did this out of feeling of having his creations, his passion stolen from him by 2K. I will get it. Does it make him less of a petty fanny? No it does not. Especially with the power of "RE retconned" due to the fact that HE LITERALLY FUCKING INTRODUCED a multiverse concept
@@dragonbornexpress5650 how about the fact that it doesn't make sense that 2k marin, who aided in the process of developing Infinite because Irrational can't reach a deadline, would want to retconned their own game(bioshock 2)? That would literally make no sense. Straight up Copium and it ignores the work 2k Marin did on both Bioshock 2 and Infinite in their collaborative efforts.
@@rokkarokka120. Look at the results, then: Within the DLC itself, the story as a whole is inconsistent and refuses to follow it's own rules while the characters from BioShock 1 (sans Cohen) have been butchered to no end to where they're barely even recognizable. You've got crap like Andrew Ryan completely forgetting his business experience and not willing to negotiate for even 5 seconds whereas Fontaine straight up reveals himself to be the bad guy minute 1 and acts like a complete idiot.
Minerva’s Den for Bioshock 2 is still the best DLC for any of the Bioshock games. Everything else was just made for a quick buck and made with very little to no passion whatsoever. Burial At Sea was a serious let down to an equally disappointing sequel.
Once upon a time I came up with the idea of a Bioshock game where Rapture, Columbia, and a modern day city smash into each other due to a god-form Elizabeth using her tear powers to rat out the few Bookers and Comstocks that she didn't see. The twist at the end being that a Booker with the same powers was hiding them from Elizabeth.
Yeah me and a friend want a return to rapture but in the 70s or 80s so it's been so long that the remaining Splicers have been splicing with shark and octopus DNA to create there own messed up adom and plasmids. And the people arriving to take over would be Mobsters come to claim there own Country.
@@explosivestar1156 Exactly people wanna say we've done all we can in Rapture but it's still full of creative new ideas and just sets off your imagination
"I don't understand why people adore stories that has too many plotholes and is pretentious complex for the sake of being complex and pretentious, it just ends up with stupid memes mocking said themes!" *meanwhile, Metalgear, Fnaf, SCP and Resident evil lore* : "uhh... yup... it's... such a a mystery really, can't relate.. heheh, yeah."
Burial At Sea part 1 was great and the ending is so good. The shock of Booker being Comstock, shocked my friend and I as he played it. Burial At Sea part 2 was a mess and then the lobo scene shocked us the most.
Bioshock: We know what we're doing. Bioshock 2: We not only know what we're doing, we know where to go Bioshock Infinite: It's been a bit of a mess but we got there in the end Bioshock Burial at Sea: We have absolutely no idea what we're doing but are too over confident to notice Burial at Sea is that moment in an author's career where they suddenly completely lose their shit and you have no idea how someone who once wrote with such clarity of purpose could pen such a total mess. Any complexity is surface level, character motivations don't make sense, logic has gone completely out the window, and we're even being asked to consider heinous acts as virtuous and heroic. It's complete brain melt.
Reminds me of 90s Frank Miller comics. The pieces are all there, but they don't fit together coherently in any way. It's games like this that should really have content warnings. "The following game contains simulated acts of callous violence and cruelty with not very much redeeming artistic or thematic context. You are about to be grossed out for no good reason."
@@asscheeks3212. The same fanbase that also likes to glorify Far Cry 4 despite the fact it's own message is a failure? Besides, I don't recall Far Cry 5 jumping straight into multiverse crap without a second thought and contradicting it's own multiversal rules.
Yeah, I also hated the way they changed Fitzroy's character. I loved that while claiming to fight a good fight for people, in truth she was nothing but a monster twisted by years of hate and abuse. Fitzroy basically looked like Comstock 2 with her own spin, with the red motif most probably alluding to the bolshevik revolution which managed to overthrow the tsarist government. I could swear to bloody God, there was a comment on this comment.
Big recommendation on the Bioshock book Rapture by John Shirley. Its a prequel to the first two Bioshock games and you get to see its rise, its glory days and its fall in great detail.
The plot of Burial at Sea: Part 2 is so convoluted you'd think it was written by Christopher Nolan when there wasn't anyone around to keep him in check. They should've just remade Bioshock 1 in Infinite's engine.
Bioshock is such a masterpiece, so is Minerva's Den. Bioshock didn't need a sequel and it'll always be my favorite. However I'm happy and glad that 2 exists. I won't argue with people saying 2 is the best and it actually justifies its existence by improving on mechanics and having an emotional ending unlike most sequels. Fuck Infinite, and fuck Burial at Sea even harder.
@@mr.pointman1930 I like your realism. I don't want another Bioshock game, Bioshock 2 and Infinite kills the entire message why Greed is bad but then keep selling itself as a franchise with toys, ads, and sponsorships.
In regards of the plot, it is explained that when someone travels to another universe reality adjust to acomodate that person, the reason why Comstock is alive after the ending of Infinite is that his origin reajusted to the new universe, therefore he was unafected by the erasure of all Comstocks. In regards of Part 2, after the events of Part 1 Elizabeth felt guilty and tried to find a way to save Sally, she saw all the variables and saw that the only way to do it was achieving the Bioshock 1 good ending which involved direct interferience and her own death, the Booker in her mind represents those memories, she sees them as Booker because they are important to her, just like Booker was.
@Jarekthegamingdragon I think it's one of those Nihilistic messages, that no matter how many times she killed Comstock or herself, there are more weirdo versions that keep popping up, to the point she just "f*ck it" and just accept random deaths in a bleak fashion in both episodes.
Bioshock infinite: destroy all bookers, everywhere, end the time loop forever Burial at sea: ExCepT FoR tHiS oNe but also raaAAAAAAaaaptuuuUUUUUuure literally a fanfiction
Burial at Sea (pt. 2 in particular) is why I got sick of Infinite as it relates to BioShock. I hate it. Its nothing more than a terribly written fan crossover, which created SO MUCH confusion in the timelines. There are people who think it is canon to the first game and it’s just not. Its SO messy and convoluted, and I just don’t want it to exist.
@@panosp1333 well apparently it's good enough that the writer head on to wrote Far Cry 5 and is now currently making Far Cry 7. This bring some discomfort in me I can't explain.
@@lonedrifter9879 oh now it makes sense why far cry 5 endings are also dogshit. I wonder what he's gonna do in far cry 7. You will have the villain at your mercy, if you kill him an earthquake happens all the sudden and you die but if you spare him he stabs you in the back as you leave him. Great ideas for that writer !
@@panosp1333 see, now you understand my deep concern of the production of Far Cry 7 now. I can't wait to be lectured how I'm a bad person for defending myself and how i deserved to be punished in an agonizing way, something this writer really likes to preach back in Far Cry 5 and Infinite...
@@jonaswest6993 I wish there is only 1 bioshock game. Second and third installments already killed the message of the original why Greed is bad but then sell itself as a franchise with Toys, Ads, and sponsorships. People wishing "Rapture and Colombia needs to be real" already hurts my head.
@@rokkarokka120 For real but I'm very partial to the second game myself because it does have a message and does quite a bit with it. If anything the first and second games show us why a society based on these philosophys doesn't work. Both "Every man for himself" and "We are a collective we are many." Don't work for a functional city/state/country. If anything the more interesting shock game would be the Developers actually showing a society based on a philosophy that works.
@@jonaswest6993 As rare as the concept of Solarpunk is, I feel that i might despise it because it feels like some unrealistic dream from Teenagers that "Society can be improve through the power of friendship and love" which is why i despise Solarpunk in so much newer fictional work. it's just feels naive.
I just didn’t care for how they made Elizabeth the lynch pin for the events of bioshock 1 and kind of skimmed over bioshock two with the whole big daddy pairbond vs protector program narrative being replaced with oooh the thorn in the lions paw stuff.
Went back to play the Bioshocks I missed a few years ago. This is the one I played most recently and had almost no memory of it whatsoever. Definitely DLC for the sake of having DLC.
And this is why Minerva's den is the peak of the series and these two pieces of shit are the low point of the series so sad this franchise had to end with a shitshow of a sad excuse of these dlcs
Burial at Sea's premise sounds cool on-paper but Part 2's gameplay really drags the experience down and the story turns an already confusing and inconsistent narrative into a plothole-ridden mess that adds nothing of value to the canon of BioShock 1.
Feels like the majority of issues that exists around the Infinite version of Rapture is just to go with the idea that it is yet another possible version of Rapture that isn't canon to the original BioShock 1 and 2. Let's call this one the Burial at Sea Rapture for sake of this. The only things that exists in this universe is infinite, an alternative version of BioShock 1 and that's it. While BioShock 1 and 2 is a whole separate timeline.
Apparently I'm in the minority here but I really enjoyed Burial at Sea. I really don't understand the growing disdain for Infinite and this as the years go by, both still hold up incredibly well to this day.
@dragonbornexpress5650 Have you played them recently? What exactly about them hasn't aged well? Compared to 90% of the half baked trash we get in the modern day especially, they hold up great.
@@Nerdvanna98. That's not saying much; You're comparing literal trash to mediocrity. There's a reason that most of the fanbase likes to pretend both Infinite and Burial at Sea don't exist. More power to you, but the answer is obvious.
@dragonbornexpress5650 It just feels like it's popular to hate on Infinite and Burial at Sea for the sake of hating because nobody, including you actually wants to give examples as to what makes it so bad. You can call both mediocre, sure, but even a mediocre game doesn't deserve the level of hate that Infinite and Burial at Sea have gotten over the years.
@@Nerdvanna98. To be honest, you sound like you're coping; Besides, you haven't provided any examples of it aging well while the footage speaks for itself.
Ken Levine just couldn't let 2K Marin's BioShock 2 and its excellent DLC be the last game taking place in Rapture. He just had to destroy everything he and they created. If I can't play with that toy neither can you mentality.
What's funny is that all it would take to undo his efforts is for Take Two to declare that Infinite and Burial at Sea are non-canon; Once that's done, it's like the series ended at the second game.
@dragonbornexpress5650 my brother in Christ, 2k marin AIDED in the development of Infinite BECAUSE irrational can't get sh*t done. They did KNOWINGLY what it would do to their OWN game, bioshock 2, let that sink in. It ain't all Ken's fault.
@@asscheeks3212. I didn't even imply it was all his fault (Chances are it's a case of everybody involved being morons); Hell, in this part of the thread, I barely mentioned him in any bad way. Get your head out of your ass.
@dragonbornexpress5650 excuse me? You spend 20 replies on one guy who was being kind to you giving an opinion in another comment. Quite literally there was zero reason why you're hostile in this entire comment section.
Christ, despite loving Infinite back in the day, I had never even so much as looked into these DLCs - that second part is a genuine slap in the face. Why would they make those changes to Fitzroy? Completely deflates that whole aspect of the base game's story! Also, as far as theming goes there already was plenty connection between the Bioshock games, making that connection not only direct, but also just out-and-out regressive for all games and characters involved? Why? What a mess.
I seriously can't bring myself to play bioshock infinite or burial at sea since it came out. Seeing what happens to Elizabeth just.. fucks me up man. I fucking hate fontaine so much. I don't know why they couldn't have some Elizabeth's out in the multiverse somewhere. Idk man killing her was a bad idea and it hurts my soul.
I think the lore is that due to this Comstock/Booker being an anomaly he survived the multiversal culling of Bookers and Comstocks and that this Elizabeth is here to finish off all the remaining Booker and Comstock anomalies with this one being the last.
I remember finding ticket puncher in part 1 and being amazed at how op it was. Melee attacks hit super hard and increased the range so far it hit people across rooms.
Maybe im in the minority on this but I actually hated the visuals. Infinite's artstyle looks really out of place in Rapture. Far more cartoony than the originals. The little sisters for example, look goofy as hell
@@dragonbornexpress5650 Not his fault. He never wanted infinite to be connected to rapture. 2k wanted to needlessly make the lore more complex so they hire some writer from Saint row 2. this writer also work on far cry 5. before saying "but 2k isn't like that!" this is 2k we're talking about. 2k....2k. The same guys that bring us all those broken sports games on a deadline. So yes, I can 100% easily blame them for this.
@@whatayaDO543. Yeah, I'm gonna need a citation for that claim; Also, why would 2K give a shit about complicating the lore when it retcons their own efforts and the story they created? This sounds like copium more than anything.
@@dragonbornexpress5650 dude, 2k nearly cancelled the first bioshock because of the existence of little sisters. Bioshock 1 originally wasn't even meant to have two endings but one, 2k changed that. you really needed a citation for Drew Holmes? Everyone played Saints Row 2 and Far Cry 5 once, his work is known, his name isn't. but he is very notorious for certain plot leaps, for better or worse. I think you're coping if you think 2k, a huge major Corportion is somehow innocent in this. They aren't. Ken is always an introvert humble Indie dev first and foremost. 2k forced a massive studio on some normal guy with anxiety issues. It's sounds exactly like their playbook. 100%, anything else is just coping on your part. you can play theirs past other published games too. It's just too obvious. Bioshock 2 is great but their fans only sources are "I made it the F*$k up" when it comes to Ken, a real life person who has no fond memories of the stress inducing task of making infinite. none at all.
@@mattc7420 or just watch his recent Judas interview, the way he words System Shock 2 and Bioshock 1 with pride, while having pure anxiety and stress everytime he has memories of Infinite. or, just play every other 2k related game, and it makes sense.
I really enjoyed this when I initially played it, but now looking back at it, I do see the cracks. Still really hoping we get a fourth BioShock following up on all of these timelines and shit, maybe it would be the best for them to just forget it though…
I agree 100% regarding episode 2's story, trying to fit Bioshocks Infinite square peg story into Bioshock 1 round hole story just doesnt work, it doesnt add anything to either tale and rewriting fitzroy is just ridiculous, the entire point of her is that her radical revolution led to more bloodshed, which hey, it has happened before in history, just look at the french revolution or the haitian revolution or the october revolution, and so on Sometimes revolutions solve injusties, sometimes they just prolong them or make em worse
I feel like infinite is one of those games that could of been it's own franchise and probably would have been better received as it's own game and not as a BioShock game, I loved the game but I don't think it's a good BioShock game same with resident evil village, plus if it was it's own game we could have got a really cool sequel, you can tell ken Levine wanted to do something different than BioShock one just by playing the game
I think the reason why Booker still exists in Burial At Sea is that it's a seperate OUTCOME of the original tear. One where the child loses a pinky, creating Columbia's Booker and Comstock, and one where the child loses the head, creating Rapture's Booker/Comstock. Elizabeth just erased the Booker of the Columbia timelines. Edit: Also, I can see how INSANE Columbia's residents already were being a reason they never became Splicers. They became addicted to EVE, but they are just more...subtly insane, since they still had a regular supply chain.
I think the reason you didn't see Splicers in Columbia was...you actually did see Splicers in Columbia. The Firemen, the creepy crow guys, Boys of Silence, possibly the Handymen. If you notice, you don't see splicers other than minibosses because hardly anyone is using Vigors. The only non-minibosses who use them are in the Devil costumes at the Fair, and it's possible they do look messed up under their costumes. I think that the population of Columbia is quite a bit more hesitant to splice up than Rapturites, and due to Vigors being made with Adam sea slugs and the drinkable forms taking 10x more Adam for the same effects as an injectible plasmid, it's probably a lot more expensive than Rapture, so only the very rich (and Fink/Comstock's enforcers, who probably are given Vigors for free) of Columbia can actually get their hands on it.
PArt one of the DLC lazy copy and pasted game play from base game part two stealth support fixes multiple problems but completely screws up Elizabeth's characterization (she had plenty of time to teleport herself and/or the big daddy away)
The worst parT? It was clearly rushed and was meant to be a whole game, they forced the BI stuff into the main storyline in a completely inorganic manner
Hold the fuck up, I didnt know part 1 can be played like a normal shooter because when I played years upon years ago, it played more like a stealth game and shooting was a very much last resort. Honestly, I wish Elizabeth was more of the same except instead of shooty shooty, she is half shooty and more not-magic, she has better shield but that shield is your healthbar, oh you do have a health bar but if you lose your shield, well a few shots and your done. Two DLCs that are not only complete mess, completely different from the main game, but laterally destroys Elizabeth as a character, in terms of Elizabeth where in Burial at sea, Elizabeth is killing off Bookers/comstocks. Well remember how Elizabeth is technically Booker's daughter? Well, Elizabeth doesn't make the connection and instead its treated as "oh thats strange".
I finally found who i was confusing you with, jack game reviews, sorry for the confusion in the last review.😅 Also ya burial at sea should be ignored. It just kind of ruins the otherwise much better characterization.
With Infinite I always thought the story was a total dud, and I never bought into the circlejerk about it back in the day, but it WAS a very solid, extremely well paced shooter that I played through about 3-4 times nevertheless. The DLC just... Wasn't. I felt like it was always just trying to cash in on Rapture nostalgia, like they regretted moving the setting to Columbia at all. I wish they would have kept moving the franchise on in a Final Fantasy kind of way, where it's a new setting every time, but all sharing the central elements of social breakdown and gene-splicing superpowers. Missed opportunity IMO.
@@TheInfamousCloaker to be fair, it's not star wars and closer to star trek. So unlike Star Wars fans, Bioshock and Star Trek fans and sigh with HUGE relief they can say "these new stories don't matter, different universese, the end". I feel bad for Star Wars fans though, unlike Marvel, they can't salvages themselves with the "multiverse" excuse, they just.. have to live with the plot holes.
@@jillkagashima6913 Star Wars fans kinda can salvage themselves though, some discount everything that disney has made (myself included), while others disregard the prequels and everything that came after them. If we're going to allow Bioshock and Star Trek fans to let themselves have a clean break then Star Wars fans can do the same. The addition of multiverses is pretty awful for ANY series, it allows the writers/producers to make up whatever they want, they're basically a license to be lazy with their stories. Multiverse nonsense is what ruined Bioshock Infinite if you ask me, nothing makes sense and yet everybody treats it like it's quality storytelling.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon I'm gonna be honest champ, sometimes I feel they take themselves too seriously to be a "parody" of something. It's like they look at Elizabeth's character, and went "You know, she needs to be more mature" and another person went "I know! what if... she CURSES and SAY bad words?! that would make her an adult!" ...and then everyone nods and Charlie is born.
People were bothered by the lore and I get it, but the gameplay and atmosphere were top tier imo. Nvm, I watched that cutscene and shits intense. That stuff becomes a lot more emotional after you become a parent lmao
the dlcs are really cool since you are in Rapture before the fall. Colian was weird but interesting. man they really like throwing the Comstock is Booker thing still but man this story is wack still
I never ended Part 2. Forced stealth was just soooo unederwhelming and boring and just SHIT. Seriously??? Forced stealth in a BIOSHOCK game??? Fuck this!!!
Ive been loving your takes on Bioshock and im sure we all have. Really funny how offended people get about it. I'm not a troll or trying to provoke people but it just seems absurdist how hyperbolic they get. Anyway I havent played this DLC but the whole gumshoe noir thing is awesome so I won't complain any time we get to see that environment. Seeing Rapture at its peak makes sense for Infinite considering how much of the base game is spent in terrific looking sunny boardwalk areas
Not that this will necessarily change your opinion, but there is something behind the two story points you brought up. The Comstock that escaped to Rapture has escaped reality as well. He’d used a tear to leave his own timeline and Elizabeth was chasing down him and others like him. As for Daisy, I believe that despite traversing through tears, it seemed very uncharacteristic of her becoming so bloodthirsty prior to hear death. I’m not sure if it’s a retcon but her conversation with the Luteces’ explains why the change happened. I personally like them. Infinite is a case of story over gameplay which makes it less engaging than Bioshock 1 and 2 in places, but taking the series as a whole including their DLC’s I really like them.
Comstock leaving his own reality still wouldn't make sense because that would happen after his baptism so he still wouldn't have existed regardless of any events that happened at that point.
I feel like I loved Part 1's story and gameplay, but Part 2 just kind of threw so many wrenches into the gears of the BioShock universe. Admittedly, I liked the difference in gameplay as Elizabeth, but the story was just the worst part.
