Why Boeing Desperately Needs The NMA/797 

I would really like to see a newer 757, it’s such a shame they didn’t make a newer version of it

Boeing had to spend +4b Dollar for the devolopment of the 737max (A-320neo was around 1b Euro) and +20b Dollar for the grounding. For the 787 they spend +32b Dollar, the A-350 was around 10b Euro. Also the costs of the 777x are only rising with no end in sight. And yes the new Air Force One jets will be +500m more expensive and delayed again... So I am not very confident that Boeing will put out a brand new 797 for 10b Dollar in this decade..

The 797 seems like an exciting plane. Hopefully Boeing redeems itself after the MAX crisis

I really liked the version talked about a few years back that would be twin aisle but 2-2-2 seating. It would be very popular with passengers who hate getting stuck in the middle seat. Also there would be quicker turn around times with a twin aisle

I think a 767X based on the 767-200 is the most viable option. KC-46s based on the -200 are still being built, so production capabilities are there already. Also, if launched in the next 2 years, the "767X" could come out when passenger numbers rebound close to 2019 numbers, so something with slightly more capacity than the A321XLR could be viable. (767-200 2-class seats around 210, A321XLR seats around 180-200 in a comfortable long-haul config, 787-8 2-class seats around 220-230) Plus, the widebody "767X" could offer more cabin possibilities compared to the narrowbody Airbus. I think more passengers would prefer it, so many seem sceptical about spending up to 10 hours on the XLR. The only problem I can see is that the longer wingspan of the 767 limits the number of airports it can service compared to the Airbus.

IMO the best bet would be the 767X. This is a market segment that has no 1:1 replacement so far, so no direct competition with the A321XLR. Also it seems to be the easiest and quickest option. Upgrading the 737 would require a new wing. Upgrading the 757 would require re-installing the whole 757 production which would be very complex and expensive. Upgrading the 787 would require a new wing as well as the 787 wing is way too large and heavy. And then theres the 767: production line running, perfectly sized, no oversized wing, also a modernized version even exists already, the Tanker. A slightly shortened 767-400ER with the technical upgrades of the Tanker and GEnx engines would be a hit. It would not even require a new landing gear as the 400 has enough ground clearance for the GEnx-2b.

The 757 has been out of production since 2004. restarting an updated version might not be easy. The 737 Max is already discredited and certainly cannot be expanded without completely giving up on safety. A new design would be needed which could be placed between the 321xlr and the 330neo but that might not be profitable. Also rumors are circulating about a 260 seat Airbus A322 with a new wing design.

Boeing screwed the pooch. They could have developed the 797 in conjunction with the 787 and did a carbon composite NMA that shared similar features. They knew they were winding down the 757 when they were developing the 787 so there was no excuse to not develop a replacement concurrently. The 767X ain’t happening because it can’t come close to the 787. A 757X won’t happen because the tooling has been scrapped. This is an unbelievable lack of foresight by Boeing and it made a huge blunder on doubling down on the 737 MAX. The MAX-10 has bombed at being a potential 757 replacement and Airbus is cleaning up with the A321. This mistake may cost Boeing its very existence unless management is completely gutted and replaced.

Boeing got themselves into a really sticky situation. They need to clean up their reputation, fix current aircraft, yet also introduce some brand new ones. Brand new ones which need to arrive ASAP but without cutting any corners as that would totally kill the company. Not a good spot to be in.

boeing should revamp the 767 because it's still in production

The NMA is too late to the market. A321XLR in American, United, Qantas and possibly Delta killed Boeing’s chances. It would have to have the latest technology in alternative carbon neutral fuels and the best aerodynamic efficiency to be a success. Boeing’s dumpster fire of a corporate culture and deplorable quality engineering has to be fixed first.

I think Boeing should pick option to regenerate 757 into 757X with same pax capacity but extended range to 6000 nm and better engine efficiency. It will be cheaper in this economic condition.

i think quickest/cheapest would be a 767X. 767 line is still open, with 787 leaving Everett there is capacity there. Slap on some new engines and make it like 767-200 sized. but Boeing doesnt have a great track record of re-engining legacy aircraft

If I were Boeing I’d pursue a clean sheet that can replace the 757 first, then replace the 737 MAX over time - one R&D, one type rating, two markets for this product. Airlines that wait to order the NMA could then find an ability to require only one type rating, parts supply and fleet type to handle both short and middle-market missions when it becomes time to replace the MAX in the 2030s, which realistically is only 5-7 years after a realistic timeline for the first NMA to enter service. I envision a composite narrowbody with primary boarding/deplaning through the L2 door, and a cabin roughly 9 inches wider than the 737/757 to enable wider Y seats; larger bins are assumed. Three lengths: a primary 757-200 and eventual 737 MAX 9/10 replacement, a “stretch” 757-300 replacement size, and a “mini” 737 MAX 8 replacement. This type of aircraft would allow Boeing to catch up to Airbus by 2030 not only by having a NMA product but by having a single aircraft series that can handle both short and NMA flights.

_"Since the first clean sheet of paper was taken to it, things have changed a bit"..._ Yeah, no shit. You drove 2 aircraft to the ground!

The problem Boeing have with the NMA is that the lower capacity market, previously dominated by the 757, has the A321 XLR firmly in its sights - it's fully launched and will be available a good decade before a smaller NMA. If Boeing choose to go go for a larger 'clean-sheet' NMA as a ' more natural 767 replacement' , Airbus, armed with A321 XLR technology, a new more efficient wing design applicable to the entire A320 NEO family (A320 NWO perhaps?) and an A321 stretch, (A322 perhaps?), Airbus will grab the Lion's share of that market before the 'glossy brochures' for the NMA launch are even printed. Whatever Boeing decide to do, they face an uphill struggle. 30-40 years ago, Boeing management no doubt hoped Airbus would fail to crack their market dominance, particularly in the US, and simply go away. Airbus have not gone away! Now Biden has ended the tariff spat with the EU and Airbus have an assembly plant in Mobile, if anything, they're coming on stronger.

Here’s the thing that airlines need to worry about. Whatever release date Boeing announces, they’re guaranteed to miss their date by at least a year and probably more. They’re never on time. Then if the history of the 737MAX, 787, KC-46, and even the Starliner are any indication, the plane won’t be ready for prime time when it is released and there will probably be kinks that require groundings to get worked out. That being said, flying on a single aisle aircraft for long distances can get really claustrophobic, so I think there’s demand in the mark for a smaller and efficient wide body.

The 767X is also a good idea, Boeing have been pressured by carriers who love the 767, like Delta. They have no plans to retire the -400ER variant, and have only recently announced that they will retire the -300ER in 4 years, even though these planes are now quite thirsty.

Boeing has ignored the 200-300 seat medium-haul market for too long. If they don't have a clean-sheet design for a new airliner to fit that role in the next five years, I think Boeing is as good as dead. The 757 and 767 were brilliant designs for their time, but Boeing has been lazy lately. If they can't replace their discontinued models, they need to close shop. Their continued reliance on the 737 platform is proof of that. And this is coming from a Washington State avgeek. Boeing has made amazing planes, but they have dropped the ball here. When Boeing makes a new plane that I can be proud of, I'll support them...but they made me become an Airbus fan.

Just get the engine Center of G or polar moment of inertia or whatever correct on this one.

If Boeing were smart, they’d replace the 737 as soon as possible with a somewhat larger plane, maybe 10-20 seats more in its standard config. Something to compete with Airbus and replace their antiquated 737. Then produce a stretch version that’s larger than any of the 321’s, with an even longer range. That would allow them to replace the 757/67 and compete with Airbus into the 2030s and beyond.

Hope the new ceo of boeing will make the great idea of the nma or just rebranding the old 757 or just modernizing it itslef.

They would simply use a B-52 as a starting platform and add a 10 billion tag to Air Force 1 to pay for the new NMA...

The main issue with using the 737/757 with presumably new wings as a starting point is that the Airbus 320 series fuselage is already 6" wider and therefore at a distinct advantage should they decide to re-wing as well. Assuming that Boeing do go for a clean sheet design with both greater development time and cost, just how much better can it be made than say a rewinged A320 series which could be developed for a lot less money and far more quickly. If the narrow body option is chosen, Airbus can probably wait until Boeing release a clean sheet design and get their offerring to market first.

The 757 was one of the best airplanes, roomy, and sporty/powerful, Boeing needs to do a 757x, keep the old belts & suspenders (cable pulley control) vs fly by dire (wire/sw/servo control), just add composite sections, good to go!!

I think that a new 767X, with new engines and wings burrowed from the 787 & 777X respectively, would be the best option. If Boeing gets it act together, they could time it so that they could seamlessly switch the production line from producing legacy 767 to the new 767X. Throw in a shrunken variant based on an updated of the original plans for the 767-100 and there’s your 757 replacement. Most of the pieces are already there, Boeing just has to put them together

A engineered 767X would the best solution since they already make an airframe for that model.

i think Boeing should prioritise getting the TIA for the 777x for now after the FAA basically has said "We're not putting our people on that plane because it is not mature enought and full of bugs"...

Face it: Boeing is no longer the company that combines innovation and reliability. This has nothing to do with the unions and everything with management. There is a third competitor, Comac that will be delivering the C919 this year. Let’s see what happens to the market if that plane is a succes. Ryanair is definitely interested.

The 757 has been out of production for years. Do you really think Boeing would incur the re-tooling costs for a model that dates back to the 1970s? If you do, you are delusional. In the case of the 767, the only thing keeping that line open is the KC-46 tanker version for the USAF and that program is seriously over budget and behind schedule. So much so that the USAF is looking for an alternative unmanned tanker.

It is a mistake that a company this large couldn't do two things at once.. fix the 737 Max and move forward with an NMA. Too much focus on profit and cost means taking your eye off the future such that you never catch up. Most employees feel the corporate shareholder focused management has failed the company.

The 767 was the perfect design, I always loved the plane. Airbus has the perfect mid-sized options with the A321xlr plus the A330

It ain't happening. Now or Ever. Boeing Expects 737 Max Costs Will Surpass $18 Billion! They will need a few good years before starting any new ventures. Too bad they waste their time on the 777-X. They would be better off clean-sheeting a 737 replacement.

Given that both Boeing and Airbus outsource over 60% of the plane to places like China its amazing that either company is still in business. Basically they handed aircraft building tech to countries that can drastically underbid them. Pretty soon countries will realize they don't need to buy expensive planes from either company. I think this is what is causing the problems at Boeing and to a lesser extent Airbus. They know the end is near and grabbing what they can now.

I think Boeing should just make an upgraded version of both the 757 and 767. Sense these aircraft fit the market of narrow body mid range jets for both domestic and short range international travels, it be a shame not to re-engined the 757 or 767. They can barrow the same Dreamliner design from the 787 and be more fuel efficient, coming up with a completely new aircraft would be a waste of time for Boeing.

An idea is make the 787-8 more narrow with 7 abreast

Rather then making a clean sheet design given the current scenario it makes sense to update the 757 or 767 or best option to make 787-3 which can be a potential game changer

Much as the b757 was a great aircraft in its day it is old, to bring it up to spec it would need FBW, a new or drastically improved wing, new engines of the appropriate power and it would still be stuck with a narrow cabin. Boeing scrapped all the tooling years ago as the b757 was considerably more expensive to make than enlarging and developing the b737 to NG. That decision is one of many that has brought Boeing to this position. Remember anything Boeing chooses to do will simply prompt a more capable A322 variant, something based on a far later platform with much easier scope to improve. The only reason for Airbus not developing this variant is that they have no need. If they felt a need to re-wing the A321 be assured they have looked at it very carefully and could beat any Boeing offering to EIS.

Boeing seriously should have updated the 757 and 717 to compete with the A321 XLR and the A220!

The "Qantas order" isn't for Qantas. It's for Qantas Group, which includes Jetstar. The plan is to send the A321XLRs to Jetstar so that the 11 787-8s that JQ have can go to Qantas.

I think the 757 re-engineering is the best option

A B787-3 would be too big. I think they should ramp up the B757 with composite wings and nearer more efficient engines. When the B787 came out airbus didnt make another plane. They re-engined the A330 and made it cheaper than the B787. I think if Boeing did this with the B757 it would stop some of the bleeding. The A350 is in competition with the B777 and the B787 competes with the A330. The A321 XLR is just a modern day B757.

I think it's a smart move to expand plans for NMA on 787 platform. As much as I praised the 757 ... re-tooling and reviving an assembly line is expensive. I would completely abandon 737 platform extensions to to public image of the "Max." Move on! It's a tired derivative!

One thing to consider is that Airbus’s factories are scattered across Europe and tensions between countries or regions may hamper development of their plane.

Delta needs to replace their 757s already. Which case if Boeing were to supply the plane they would not have time for a clean sheet design.

The NMA market is saturated by the A321NEO. There are only two places that Boeing can go: race to develop their own 5-abreast "A220-500/CS500" to replace the 737MAX-8, and go for a 250-passenger "797" designed with a 7-abreast ultra-light 60-ton wide-body matched with a pair of ultra-efficient wings and geared turbofans. Of course it has to be a feature-loaded airframe with transatlantic capability, superb shortfield performance, long maintenance intervals, 19-inch wide economy seats, big windows and high dispatch reliability.

Meanwhile they do not also have a competitor to the Airbus A220 they will loose market share significantly .

Oh god they're just going to stretch the 737 again aren't they? 737 XTREEEME

If Boeing were to build a new NMA, I’m sure they’d secure at least 100 from Delta, 30+ from JAL, and 50+ from American and/or United. If Boeing were to start developing the aircraft, my guess is that United would defer their a321XLR orders to a later date and later cancel if Boeing offers a huge discount. Then they may secure a larger order than what Airbus originally received from United at 100 as well.

Great quality, thanks!

I would like to see a 757 max. It's a beautiful airplane that I love flying on and it's a shame it's being retired. I know it would look even more beautiful with a new glass cockpit and larger more efficient engines!

757 > everything 🤷🏽‍♂️

A 757 max would be a nice idea. In my opinion the 757 is beautiful and it would be nice to see more of them in the sky. It would also be able to replace older 757s without any issue. A few issues is that airlines that have many of these aircraft have already started replacing them with a321XLRs and other aircraft. A 767x would be cool but would just be too similar to the 787. An aircraft based of the 737 would be a bit problematic. First of all, if they want bigger engines they'd have to modify the gear and wings. Also we do already have a 737max 10 which already has the same capacity as a 757. In my opinion the 757 max would be a better idea as it can compete with the a321xlr and some airlines which have not found replacements for their 757s can have minimal issue replacing them.

These companies basically “borrow” Engineering and Technology from each other, also there is a chance that Boeing is counting on scoring a huge US Military Contract in the next couple of years. The new CEO is pushing to capture a large military contract and will be green lighting the development of this new midsize aircraft.

What will come after the 797 though?, An 807 or 808?

What Boeing should have done is release it concurrently with the 787. If they had, they could have made it the 757/767 replacement (along with cockpit commonality) with the -8/9 models replacing the 767's already.

Which airplane models have lightweight batteries/accumulators, composite chassis and in which models? What happens to composite parts? They are less recyclable than plastic.

What about the 787-3 that was on the Boeing drawing board years ago?

We are experiencing Boeing's sunset. Since the crisis of 737Max, then the turtle speed on responding to the losing market on NMA, and the US political cost the loss of China market. In my view, it's a quick and economical way to offer an upgrade on the popular 757 with a new engine, new wing design and new fuselage material to extend the range up to 8000nm. A brand new design may cost Boeing a fortune and time. It will give Airbus to enjoy and dominate the NMA market for years. But this is only my thought, Boeing surely has their own considerations.

As a 767-Fan, I’d love to see a 767X 😍

Boeing didn't loose all of the 797 development when they shelved the project and could revive it. They developed the 737 Max to try to keep up with AB and it came back to bite them. I think they give AB the early win so they can come up with a new platform for the next 50 years.

4&4 seating, with increased pitch?

A clean sheet airliner will take at least a decade. The best option would be a 767X with reengineered frame using composite materials, composite wings adapted from the 787, glass cockpit, fly by wire and perhaps the GE9X engines. It would be a native long haul plane with advanced features, could take 5 years to the market and cost half the price for R&D. In the mid term passengers and crew of the 321 XLR will start complaining about the unconfortable experience of flying long haul in a narrowbody frame.

i suggest they make a 757-8/9 and 767-8/9 before making a 797 because the 797 could be like the next 747 so it gotta wait

The mid a/c market is example of another decision made by Boeing based on financial reason. Not on sound decision of of the industry. Research is at least a decade if not more behind.

Front line pilots have been saying Boeing needs a new, clean sheet narrow body since Boeing announced the 737-800.

Embraer should come forward and design a new midsize long haul plane like the 757-300, with market to sell 5000 aircraft I don't know what they're waiting for...money is not problem they can get a loan from BNDES...well now Embraers president isn't Brazilian, if he was he probably would strive to make the company much bigger than its now.

The 757 is my favourite Boeing.

Can't wait for the boeing anime I'd like to see that

I wonder if Airbus is already working on an extension to the A321 or maybe a A222 to be ready to offer something as an answer to a new Boeing?

When are we gonna see a blended wing aircraft? They just sticking wings on cigar tube.

It would be really cool to see a new generation of 757s and 767s..

The problem is that Boeing never uses a clear sheet of paper to finally design a good Flight By Wire and common systems cockpit which is interchangeable between different types. Sure, there are commonalities like the 757/767, the 747-400/747-8 and 777/787 common type ratings, but Airbus is simply unbeatable with a clear philosophy that ranges throughout the entire fleet, making training and developments much cheaper.

What I think Boeing needs to do is make a clean sheet design replacement for the 737 which can be stretched into a little longer than 757-200s length. The 737 needs to be replaced, and Boeing needs to get one step ahead with a composite airframe.

On my opinion use original 757 with redesigned wings and all new engines is lower cost of development than designing all new aircraft Speaking of cabin use already designed Boeing sky interior like 737NG and 737MAX And technologies and cockpit use similar design of Boeing KC-46 a hybrid design between 787 and 757/767

Boeing had better stress a return to building quality aircraft. They've had too many slip-ups lately.

I think with all of the scrutiny that Boeing aircraft have gone through and will continue to go through, there will be no other aircraft line that will have had more eyes on their products in terms of safety and quality, and therefore will be one of the safest planes to fly for anyone out there. Whether or not the public will realize that or not with media slandering and biased reporting. Also the public will have to take into consideration what companies service these aircraft in service.

Makes sense to just update what you already have to meet that segment of the market. No need to reinvent the wheel as the saying goes.

767X would be sweet

My suggestion is to make a new version of 757 with new engine and new updated cabin.

Whatever Boeing executive genius who cancelled the 757 needs a kicking. That plane could have been improved, and its absence just handed that entire large narrow-body segment over to Airbus. Not even mentioning the 757 is a fantastic plane.

I think a new 757 (797) or 787-3/787-1 would be a great fit

With the 757 being one of my favorite narrow body's, I really hope we see a new 757 with a widened fuselage and all the carbon that will go along with it and I want to see it soon! That beautiful aircraft is one amazing looking beast.

Thanks for the video, Simple Flying! In my opinion, I think that the NMA had more potential than A321XLR (and a potential A322neo). Unlike the NMA, the A320neo was initally built for the smaller end of medium-haul. The A321XLR pushes the A320neo to the limit, and a potential A322neo will go beyond its limit. So, in the long run, the NMA will be a winner.

Where is competitor to the A220

Think Boeing's missing a giant opportunity by not modifying the older, magnificent 757. They'll need new tooling, of course, but the design already exists and the airplane is "proven," which, judging from the 737 Max and, now, 787's ongoing challenges, isn't a Boeing forté these days! In any case, 757's a lovely plane and, in any case, would be far cheaper (and far safer!) to bring to fruition than a 797!

I suggest using less energetic background music and to use more playful music instead. Although the VoiceOver is audible, the video would be better with an even lower background music volume.

There is so much rubbish that plays on wrong answers to this question and very little of comprehension as to why the "middle" is such a difficult problem. (1) From the point of view of fuel efficiency, a 757 do-over would suit best. Only problem... (2) no modern, high-efficiency turbofan currently exists to suit the role. (3) Truth is, the model is Boeing's poorest selling "modern" variant, so profitability or lack thereof raises questions. (4) Short term, Airbus could re-wing the A321 for the role of A322, but again, sufficient propulsion does not exist. (5) The 767-200 is too big. A short 787 is even bigger. Short models are not efficient, it's the medium long versions, always. (6) The 2-3-2 flat-oval 767-ish gizmo did not catch fire. Would a twin-aisle 2-2-2, carbon everywhere, new propulsion model suit? The real problem is that airplanes do not scale well. That have to grow by butt-widths because people and aisles are not scalable. Incremental width comes in 20-inch parcels. Engines do not scale well either. Distinct centerlines are expensive. Pratt has gears, but lacks a modern centerline that would gear a 50,000 pound thrust fan. Rolls has gears too. No centerline small enough. The LEAP does not have enough bypass, but survives on high-temperature efficiency but with maximum thrust well short of what will be needed. What may be likely, hard to guess, is the future full-carbon narrow body, with two sizes of wings, two sets of engines, two landing gears. The only way to load a long-single aisle quickly is to open the rear door and load from both ends. Otherwise, you just put up with slow turn-arounds. Dual loads require ground changes, and diagonal positioning of the airplane, probably a no-go.

Seems like a easy decision for Boeing, 757X. Re-engineer a already great aircraft! Updated materials and tech!

Wait, could anyone tell the Boeing to make a 787X first? Increasing the wingspan by 3-4 meters would add few hundred kilometres to that range , please 🙏 tell them before it's too late

How bout bringing back an updated 757?

Seems like the 797 is a reborn A300

They should update the 757, that is the best NMA aircraft.

I hope it’s a widebody, the single isle is not Comfortable

“The Boeing Anime” I would like to see that

They need to/should’ve already introduced an all new, exciting, clean sheet design, SAFE … 737 replacement.

Envision a 757-200/300 that looks like a slim 787 with LEAP engines,...

Airbus would have had a direct replacement that airlines would be fighting for had they redesign the main wing on the a321 and up rate the engine options on the NEO. The a321 Neo is a beautiful aircraft. It just doesnt have the capability of a 757 in it's current form. Boeing would do best resurrecting the 757 and updating it to meet today's tech standards. I bet airlines that love or loved the 757 would drop the a321 orders and jump on Boeing for brandnew updated 757s.

BOEINGS ONLY HOPE IS: (NEW MANAGEMENT) & A NEW (OLD) CULTURE!!!

I think Boeing needs to make a comparable plane to the A320 family. The A318 to A321 covers a huge range of sizes. This new plane could ultimately replace the 737 which really is long in the tooth now and badly tarnished.