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Awesome video here Spencer! I've grappled with this topic for some time, and you explained it very well. I fall into Category 3, but of course, I try to get a little better than the "average" redemption. It boils down to this: I control how I use my points for travel, not the other way around. If you let CPP dictate what you do, at one point or another, you'll miss out on experiences you could have done, and that's not how I want to live my life.
You hit the nail on the head man, that's exactly how I think most people should be looking at their points. You should be in control of them and don't let them control you. I'm glad you liked this one and it seems like a lot of the audience did too! It's a controversial topic but one that I really wanted to cover based on my redemption strategies. You're the man Stan!
Haven't seen a thorough breakdown on this topic, but so important! Personally in the camp closer to Camp #1, but I think it also depends on what your financial situations are like too. If not getting a good cpp prevents you from going on a trip, not good! But if it's just a difference of using the points vs. paying with cash and saving points for another (more enhanced) experience, then I think paying some attention to cpp is still ok! (Given you *will* make those "enhanced" trips happen like you've touched on). As always great video Spencer! (ps Cap1 -> Aeroplan is a really flexible route!)
Thanks so much, Kevin! This is a great way to look at it too and one that I definitely agree with. To me, making the trip happen is the most important thing, and considering I'm someone who has the goal of never paying cash for flights and hotels, making my points work for me sometimes requires lower CPP values. If I had the funds to pay for every domestic trip in cash and could save all my points for big international trips, I could see that being an optimal strategy for sure. I appreciate your perspective man!
Excellent video topic and a good change of pace from the usual stuff. A lot of creators pump out the “group 1” type of redemptions. This is very unrealistic for the average person, however does get more views. I still cringe at people who will base their whole travel on award availability of a random location. Points and miles it meant to subsidize trips that you wouldn’t normally take at this time of your life. I fall into that category 2. Bare minimum should be 1 cent. Everything above that is just extra. That whole segment where you talked about flying to LA and needing a specific time and date on AA and then having to readjust in the portal is what the common person needs to hear. Good video Spencer!
Haha I completely get where you're coming from and I've never vibed with those types of unrealistic high cpp redemptions either. It sounds like we're on the same boat here and I'm really glad my examples resonated with you. I just want to share my experiences with folks even if those experiences aren't highly praised by the points maximalists out here haha. Thank you so much for the kind words!!
I appreciate this perspective. I was saving my points for a trip from the SE US to Europe and needed to fly to Hawaii for a funeral and redeemed aA miles for 1.7 cents per point and was grateful I had the points. I wound up saving $4332 is the total savings for Premium Economy and am happy for the redemption
That's awesome to hear Ginger. And speaking of awesome, that redemption was too! I'm sorry to hear about the funeral, but at least you were able to cover some large expenses with your points to make it a bit of a better experience I hope!
Interesting but in my opinion the entire purpose of travel points is to get a high cpp value. There's really no reason to use transferrable currencies unless you're getting outsized value from them. For example, if you're getting 1.5 cpp on Chase dining spend (3x), you would be better off with a 5% cashback card as your rate of return would be 4.5%. 5% cashback is kinda the floor minimum you need to be beating with points. This is relatively easy to do with just a bit of effort, even less effort with Chase/Hyatt. The idea of cpp not mattering is kinda antithetical to the travel point game in general. Again, nice video just a different perspective than my own. Keep it up!
That's a great take on it and one that I share! That's why I mentioned here that as someone in camp 2, I'm not stressing over CPP values, but still target as high as possible within my travel habits. To me, it doesn't make sense to book trips strictly for CPP values if that's not a trip you would have already taken. Also, remember while getting 4.5% back effectively (given your example) if you throw in even just some Hyatt stays in there by transferring out to them, your average would be higher than 1.5 cpp on the year. Also, travel cards are going to give you much higher welcome offers than a cashback card would, so while you may earn 3x back every day on dining, you earned 15-30% ROS for the welcome offer which beats most cashback cards (at least for the total amount of spend covered at that rate). Great points all around here though! This topic is a fun one to discuss.
I’m camp #2. Anecdotally reading threads on reddit and other places, camp #1 people can be really annoying. They tend to have a superiority complex. If you aren’t getting 5-10CPP, they view you as a peasant.
I remember you really wanted the Amex Platinum offer, so my question is would you have had these same thoughts if you were able to get the Amex Platinum in the recent past?
Incredible video and I’m glad someone is finally discussing it. This part of the credit card game gets highlighted as the “North Star” by many creators when in reality it takes a tremendous amount of time effort and money to get there. From my experience credit card points are getting devalued on a annual basis, so hoarding points in hopes of saving for a 5-6 cpp redemption gets exponentially harder unless you have extremely high spend and are earning hundreds of thousands of points per year unless your traveling alone. Also being based in America, you need to be traveling to internationally to Asia, Europe or somewhere else halfway across the world in business class to see north of 3 cpp. Unless you have the means to take weeks or even months off from your job every year or work remotely there’s no time to take these trips beyond it being a once in a lifetime occasion. You also have to waste hours and hours searching, be willing to reposition airports, and be extremely flexible schedule wise to even find award availability for these redemptions. I used to be a camp 1 person but after finding your channel and doing more research I’ve switched to camp 2 and 80% of Americans are best suited for that category + prioritizing chase cards as well. Appreciate the work you do here
Dude, thank you so much for the kind words! This comment speaks volumes of the whole credit community at this point in my opinion. Well maybe not the whole community, but like you said, maybe 80% of it, and that's exactly who I want to speak to. I feel like most of the videos made these days are for a very small portion of the people in the US who use credit cards, but I feel like my thought processes and habits are much more in line with the general public, hence why I wanted to make this video. You hit the nail on the head here and I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts Vincent!
What ever makes it free. Because I have to buy 4 international flights every year to see family. So if we want another vacation that year we need to use points.
Great video. Far more realistic for many of us. I have something of a hybrid set up like this. I tend to think of Domestic (Southwest also works great for us) and International (basically all other transfer partners) as two distinct buckets. The cards I have and the spending shifts to build the bucket that makes sense for any given time.
I gotta let you know, your videos are on point! And your interviews with all the other credit card people are quite inspiring. I particularly like the one with Stan, I was so inspired to find out he is a doctor! I work in the medical field as a Respiratory Therapist and just to know a doctor does this kind of thing is just awesome! I really need a creative outlet and hobby like this too. That’s why that interview you did with him was inspiring to me. I’m much older than you are but I still love to learn from guys like you with so much knowledge in different topics. I am hoping to do videos later on too with my credit card experience. Life is so busy for me right now but I will do my best to get it going. Also, thank you for your credit card strategy worksheet! I am using it and helping me to create my own roadmap. Just a question: does it make sense to add authorized user cards? E.g. I’m an AU for two of my wife’s cards. Anyway, keep up your good work! Take care!
Thank you so much for the kind words! That's awesome to hear that interview resonated with you and that you want to start creating content yourself. I'm stoked to hear about you getting it up and running! To answer your question, it can definitely make a lot of sense to add AU cards when you're playing the credit card game with a spouse. That'll not only help y'all earn a lot of points with each other, but will keep your credit profiles a bit cleaner. Just make sure to manage the welcome offers so you can maximize that among both of your setups!
This is one of the most relatable videos on how to grasp the value one gets by using points for travel. I am relatively new to the travel game with cards and I can see myself in the camp that says I will use the points earned to take trips that make memories and the cpp I get is really of secondary concern. I have the USBAR card for general travel so I know my base is 1.5. I am about 100 bucks away from earning 150k from AMEX Bus Gold (not a great card but 150k is 150k) and I redeemed my first points ever flying from Philly to Indianapolis for 8250 points one way for a $167 flight. That seems like a pretty good value to me. In the future I know can get better when flying to Europe but it wont stop me even if I get less. Earn and burn is a great way to think about it.
Thanks so much for the comment man! I'm glad this one resonated with you. It sounds like you and I are in the same boat, and I'm jealous of that USBAR you have. It's a card I definitely plan on adding myself one day! Keep up those awesome redemptions too... you're killing it!
Thanks Spencer for a very thoughtful video on strategies to redeem points which isn't discussed very much on RU-vid! I personally fall into Camp 1, mainly because I take 1 overseas trip to Asia to visit family every year. Before learning about points, I spent $1000+ round trip in economy. Being able to fly the 13 hour journey in business for almost free was a game changer. Finding award space is very challenging and often requires booking 1 year in advance, but I'll also redeem 1.5 CPP for economy if there's no premium availability, or simply pay in cash if prices aren't too high.
Absolutely Colin! Thanks so much for the comment! Camp 1 definitely seems to be an ideal spot for you and your situation and that's awesome to hear! THose high CPP values are really nice to get, especially when you're traveling in business or first class overseas like you're doing. Keep up the great work!
Probably ccp dont matter much to him because he get tons from refferal. If he obtain those point organically from spending, its natural he will want as much return as possible from those points
If you’ve followed his content where he’s shown redemptions he’s done on trips he’s had cases where he didn’t get “the best” redemptions. You can’t speak for him. I get my points from spending and I could care less about these business class/first class flights that some people go crazy over. I’d rather use those points for more stays even if it’s not “the best” possible redemptions
I appreciate the thought here, but I actually covered exactly this in the video. If you want to get a well-rounded view of my approach, be sure to watch the whole video before assuming too much!
I’m probably in between Camp 1 & 2 because I am the person who will search for a high CPP redemption on Seats.Aero and other platforms (and check the awards program itself and cross reference for phantom availability) but the idea of using points for cash back (with Chase who gives 1cpp) in a bind isn’t completely gross to me. I’d say the goal for me is 3-5cpp, but 2 cpp for economy international flights is still okay and is pretty readily attainable. Either way, I love the points and miles game and spending the time to actually search around!
Thanks! I gave you sub by the way! I really appreciate the content you put out and how you have a genuineness (if that’s a word?) in how you present yourself in your videos!
I agree that trying to get the highest cpp isn't the most important, and I do think that there are many flaws with cpp. But I also think for people who are team travel, there should be a base level value to aim for your transferable points, and if you're just going to use the portal for most (if not all) your redemptions, then a cashback setup will probably be best. The portal doesn't always give the best deal, and while at times it is competitive, looking outside the portal will probably be cheaper. The experience is what matters, and the way I get first-class flight experiences is by using transfer partners. I don't care what the ticket cost is after a certain point. What I care about is being able to take a first-class flight for incredibly cheap.
I completely agree!! It really all depends on goals, but I think anyone and everyone should be forcing their redemptions to work with their travel habits and not the other way around. I think your approach is great!
I fly a lot for work and I get to keep the points. But my dates and cities are locked in. In July I fly from Seattle to Qatar with Qatar Airways. The company pays for my flight but I was able to use the transfer partners to upgrade to business class round trip for a total of 80k avios points, which I transferred from my Amex Platinum. The upgrade would cost $2300 each way so I get around 5.3 CPP. I “earn” around 130k Amex points per year and typically use them for hotel stays directly through the Amex travel portal, even though my CPP is like 1.2-1.5 or if it makes sense, I upgrade longer international trips by using the points I earn through my employer booking the flight snd top it off with transfer partners. I don’t spend a ton of time on it. If the offer makes sense to me, I book it snd if not, I’m cool with it too. Great video!
Wow that's awesome! Getting reimbursed for travel while being able to utilize your points for better experiences on the trips you're already required to take is perfectly justifiable approach and one I haven't seen in the comments of this video yet. I love it! Thanks for the support as well btw!
You should do a collab with Caleb Hammer! He's also based in Texas and has a popular personal finance channel. I'm a big fan of both your channels. After stumbling across his videos, it led me on a rabbit hole of personal finance videos, which led me to credit cards, and now I'm here. I'd love to see you pop on his show and vice versa!
That would be awesome! Caleb has definitely become a big name in the space that people trust and I'd love to get the chance to talk with him. Maybe one day!!
for employed folks like me who can only take vacations like during Christmas season, I dont care much about CPP, what I want us for my family to stay in Hyatt or an IHG property... bonus if I can find business class tickets via miles (most likely low CPP)
To be honest, as a frugal guy I think CPP should be based on how much to get you from point a to point b in the cheapest option. Take off award fee, take off annual or annuals if you're feeding from multiple cards then divide by the total points consumed. What I've found personally is that with economy my CPP is maybe 1.3 and that's with flying to Asia from east Coast. I think for me, it's all about getting to the place you need to go not really about the value saved. I've seen videos where people will spend more in award fees then the lowest cost economy flight and say look how much I've saved when they're actually getting negative value per point. If you're a business daddy who's constantly splashing cash to travel in luxury congratulations positive value but if you're a standard pleb 95% of the population what you've done is waste money, points are money.
I definitely appreciate this take here man! I resonate with it with my own personal redemptions. I index heavily on getting there as cheaply as possible and at the dates and times I need to. CPP is a lower priority for me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here!!
1.8 cpp redemption rate is pretty realistic and easily achievable for domestic trips. I consider this as the "true" cpp because most people would most likely not pay for the cash value of those crazy 5+ cpp trips. Extremely high cpp is better used just as an indicator of how "luxury" of a trip you are able to enjoy, and not how much money you actually save by using points.
I completely get where you're coming from and I agree! While it's nice to get those luxury trips here and there, if that doesn't fit your normal travel habits then you're just wasting money/points.
My wife retires a year from now. 2 summers from now we hope to have some trips. One of my point families is United. I don't have high expectations of doing better than 1.2 to 1.5 since these points are in United. Not UR. And this doesn't bother me. Im still learning. I already have around 24% to 36% return on my spend to earn the points with new card Subs. I've already made and gained value. I think this makes me group 2. The hotel will be 5 free marriot nights. Don't know yet if I have to top them off. Could I do better?? Maybe but so far i see free air and hotels for paying my Expenses Redemption value is a topic often reviewed. The bigger travel value is in my opinion can be points value origination. If the points start as a sub or as basic as earning a Stacked X9 multiplier buying an apple at a grocery store on my Freedom Flex then my points value will always be higher then someone doing better on Redemption values but using a card with weaker earnings. ( platinum users buying food im talking about you). Anyway good video
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts Bill! I think your approach is perfectly justifiable and one that a lot of people share. At the end of the day, the way in which you earn the points (and at what percentage) is a huge way to get outsized value no matter the redemption, so I completely get where you're coming from. I'm excited to hear about the trips you and your wife are able to take together after she retires!
Great video I was hung up on cpp as a result scheduled 5 days in Key West over New Years holiday to get 5th night free giving me almost 3 cpp on Hilton points Sadly I left a day early as it was too long there wasting any perceived value My favorite redemption was only 1.25 buying my wife a MacBook with chase points Camp 2 is where I stand now for sure
Thank you so much for the kind words and for sharing your experience! I think a lot of people share in that experience as well, and that's why I wanted to discuss this topic in a full video. I think a lot of us are conditioned to only ever think about CPP values when we redeem our points, but to me, that's one of the least important factors these days. It's all about making those memories or redemptions that will better your life in some way as a MacBook did for your wife as well as myself when I made the same redemption!
agree...it is nice to get a good deal. But for example, I know I am staying in June in some places that are $600-800 a night but highly inflated based on the location and places I would otherwise not even consider staying at. Great cent/point redemption though. But more importantly, it is free! Also staying in hotels that are less than 1 cent per point but again, no money out of my pocket and more than .5 so still worth it. People also say not to redeem Amex points for Delta but again, got me a first class ticket across the country and don't care about the cents per point.
Making your redemptions work for you rather than the other way around is huge! It sounds like you're doing just that though so I love it. Keep up the great work!!
This was enjoyable. The last part I think is important: the camps should derive from situation, not ideology. If you are point rich relative to your needs, low cpp is fine. If points are scarce (or you are pushing velocity beyond your comfort level), being more judicious and mixing in some cash spending when lower cpps exist (or bonuses can juice earning) is wise. The cpp should really be thought of as an opportunity cost that helps make a decision about which resources to use under the constraints given (location, time, company, etc.).
I'm on the side of a strictly cash back card is useless to me. I want a car that maybe gives me cash back but has the ability to move into traveling. I want to or something comes up. That's why I like the freedom cards the Capital One set of just so I have that flexibility thinking even though I have the discover card and some others I never use them because any benefit other than getting cash back. But do I want 2% 3% or even 5% on a cash back where I don't have the freedom to be able to use transfer to a partner whenever I decide to now? I do see one thing that's good about cash back is if you're willing to transfer into an account and put it into like a dividend stock. Whatever then you eventually would actually get way more value than even transfer workers because of compounding, other than that, that's really no value to me because flexibility is valued for me
I completely get where you're coming from and I'm in the same boat! Team transferrable currencies all the way here 🫡 That's why Chase cards work so well for me personally!
Cent per point makes sense to think about if you use the actual $ value you would pay for a redemption, not the face value. if you would only have paid out of pocket $2k for that $20k flight, the 100k point cpp math looks very different.
I feel like I need to study the points & miles games for at least another 1.5 years before I feel safe moving away from my NAF cashback setup. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Good vid, Spencer.
I flew roundtrip from JFK to ATL last week and when I booked I couldn't find a way to make a points transfer work for me so I used the $300 travel credit plus 1.5X points from the CSR. I worked out quite well. Cool video!
Great video!! I’m about a year in to the points & miles game and I feel like I was starting to fall into the Camp 1 category based on videos I see on high redemptions. I totally agree that at the end of the day it’s about making memories. Yes you def want to get a good CPP value but at the same time the points are worthless until they’re used. Dont hold onto them for a 10 CPP redemption that may never happen when you can get a 2 CPP redemption right now! Don’t work for the points let the points work for you! Again, love the video!
Thank you so much for the kind words here! This video was one I had been thinking about for a long time and it's great to see you resonated with it. We seem to have similar takes on this whole topic which is cool to see. I appreciate your support!
Love this video Spencer! I mostly fall into camp 1 but I'm a weird one where I look for business class award availability (for trips that I have maybe a 10% chance of taking) in my free time. Chasing high cpp also often comes with giving up some utility, like if you just redeemed for economy instead of business class, which achieves the same objective of getting from point A to B, yes you'd forgo a better experience and higher cpp, but you'd also save some points to use on your next trip.
Thanks so much brotha! And that's definitely a fun pastime haha. Maximizing your points is obviously a great move as long as it fits your travel habits and you have the time to do so, so I love your approach! I appreciate your support as always.
Great video! You touched on a key point with families, that it is hard to do the luxury experience. Especially families with 5 or more people. Luxury flights would take a lot of points. Many luxury hotels don't have rooms that can fit more than 4 people or you have to book a suite which would be expensive. Hotels in Europe are hard to find with larger rooms. I completely agree that many families are in the camp 2. It seems that many travel bloggers travel solo or with 4 or fewer people so it is easier to do the luxury travel experience.
Thank you so much! It's great to hear that my speaking on family travelers resonated with you. I definitely want to cater my videos to that audience more, so expect more of that to come in the future!
And to me, that's completely okay! Of course it all depends on what types of redemptions you're looking at, but 2 cpp is definitely not guaranteed in most situations outside of maybe something like Hyatt hotels or international flights.
If you surrender points to pay for a flight, that flight is not free. Those points have an actual cash value. It's not much different than surrendering points from your bank account to pay for a flight, except that the points in your bank account have a fixed value.
But if you earned those points from a SUB, aren't your points "free"? Thus that flight is "free" You wouldn't have had the "money" in your bank account to begin with
There's always an opportunity cost with redeeming points, hence why I try to say "free" in quotes rather than just free. There are nuances to everything though, but hopefully that doesn't stop you from understanding the main points of these videos!
US Bank Altitude Reserve sounding better and better every day. I have the Venture X and Gold setup, but I'm thinking of picking up the Altitude Reserve and using that as my main card instead.
Can you point us at some resources for how to do redemptions? I am looking for an algorithm to use. For example, I have seen examples of flying through a city in South America to go to Europe but that seems really involved.
There are a bunch of tools I've been recommended but haven't personally used myself so I can't vet them. If and when they make sense for me to use I'll definitely share more about them! I'd check out Max Miles and Points for some tools that may be able to help you out!
Spencer, I think the bottom line is that your point redemption strategy should vary depending on your travel goals unless you're in camp 3, which seems very shortsighted and inefficient. Your one comment about how you won't remember your CPP redemption years down the road and that you value the memories more than CPP - although this is agreeable, CPP maximalists would argue that they could build more memories with better CPP redemptions (they can embark on more trips..). Hence, maximizing CPP can be more strategic to build more memories, so long as you aren't locked into a timeslot like your example. Anyways one cool video idea would be to analyze the varying economy based (hotel & flight) CPP redemptions across transfer partners to demonstrate that usually it's
I don’t think having higher CPP means more trips. It just means more extravagant (aspirational) travel. If anything you could argue it’s the other way around, hypothetically two economy flights = one business class would mean you get to two destinations rather than one.
@@TheGreen415 Yeah, this mindset is exactly why I proposed the video idea. You are misinformed... Typically, you can expect to get anywhere from 1.2 - 2 CPP for economy redemptions, but you CAN get > 2 CPP using the right strategies. Hence, you can get more juice out of higher CPP, this is not just tied to aspirational redemptions..
Thanks so much for the comment and suggestion! I like the video idea for sure and I can consider working that into my future videos. I definitely see where you're coming from here too and there are certainly ways to get more than 2 cpp for domestic trips as I mentioned here in the video, but I think we forget that most Americans value their time higher than a slightly higher CPP value, and that's why those fixed value redemptions (like 1.5 cpp with the CSR) become more valuable. It's all a preference thing, but I completely get the points maximalist mindset and see where you're coming from.
A really fresh take on CPP Spencer👍🏾 I largely fall into camp 1, with camp 2 tendencies (Chase CSR domestic). Your delivered on CPP nuance here man! One small suggestion however... taking a breath or 2 before topic switch may help with the digestion of the valuable info in a presentation like this😊
I really appreciate that man! Thank you for the suggestion as well. When I talk more off the top of my head in a video like this I tend to talk faster cuz I have so much I want to say, so that's a great reminder for me 👍🏼
Spencer, how do I book Qatar Airways flights using Chase UR Points? Qatar isn’t a direct transfer partner with Chase, but I’ve heard you can still book through partners like British Airways? Confused with how it all works, I’d appreciate any help on this. I feel it will be a good way to use my UR points since I don’t travel or stay in hotels often, but expect to travel with Qatar in the future.
Great question here! You'd actually just use a very similar approach to the one I shared in my video about how to book American Airlines flights using Avios. As mentioned above, since Qatar and British Airways have the same Avios currency, you can book certain Qatar flights through BA. You'll have to be more flexible with your dates and you want to make sure you're getting a good deal, but that's one way to do it.
Correct. Similar to my video mentioned above, only certain flights are available using that method so it requires a bit of flexibility. @@vishnurajiv99
Wanted to ask a question. What's the point of the hotel and airline branded cards if the person is not loyal to any brand? Wouldn't it be easier and more effective using a card that earns points such as UR, MR points and then transfer them using the transfer partners?
@@Me-sr7kwfor example, the world of Hyatt card gives you a annual free night certificate each year for a category 1-4 property. Let’s say you then use the certificate for a free night at a category 4 property and it would’ve costed you $250 if you paid cash. The annual fee for the card is $95 so that night would’ve given you enough value to make up for the annual fee. You would then hold on to this card each year even though you would never use it to take advantage of the free night that would most likely make up for that $95 annual fee each year
It looks like you've had some great help from the commenters below and I can put my two cents in as well. I think of hotel and airline cards as being there strictly for the benefits. Those benefits being free nights, free checked bags, etc. Spending wise I personally always put my spend on my transferrable currency cards as you mentioned, and then use those points with the hotels and airlines I choose. The one issue with this is on the hotel side is that Hyatt is the only hotel you'd want to transfer those points to (for the most part). So you just have to set expectations and organize your spending based on your travel goals in the near future.
