Why China's Shenzhou is Better Than Russia's Soyuz 

If those ex-Soviet engineers are anything like me, they spent the whole time telling their Chinese counterparts: "And I wish I had done this differently, and this, and this ...."

I was in primary school in Shenzhen, Guangdong when Shenzhou 5 launched, and on that day the school made all the students gather in the multimedia room (which is like a big big room with projectors and a stage and seats enough for the whole school) and cancelled all the classes for the period when the event is broadcast live on TV. That sure was a good day of no classes, but it also kinda sparked my interest in spaceflight, which I kept to this day.

Must be amazing to have the space to safely land a new spacecraft, Here in the U.K. the largest area we have uninhabited and empty is the trophy room at Bournemouth Football club

"Better not to piss in diaper, baby doesn't like it, neither does an adult" has to be one of the best lines ever spoken about human space exploration

Several years ago I was in Shanghai for business and being the geek I am visited the science center. They had a massive display about the Chinese space program. I was embarrassed in how little I knew about what their program had accomplished, it was quite impressive.

There is way too little talk and information about chinese space program in the english speaking internet. Very happy to see you take this up and I hope you cover their other projects as well.

I recently read a lovely illustrated history of the Soviet manned space program and I'm struck by how much Shenzhou resembles the original proposals for Soyuz that were subsequently scaled back, particularly the orbit module.

This happened 200 years ago with steam locos. The US, new to industrialization, imported Scottish and English locos to get their first RRs operating. US machinists had to fabricate spare parts...then back engineered cloned, but the clones eventually were improved. Then they became specialized to the frontier terrain that did not exist in Britain or France....becoming a much more capable loco line for the purpose...and Beitish machine shops started integrating some American innovations to incorporate into their colonial Empire railways. Eventually at the end of steam Britain had some beautifully elegant, fast but quaint engines to pull trains through the rolling English countryside. The US had Big Boy and Challengers to drag mile long teains over the Allegheny and Rockys.

The clever thing about the three-part solution is that the landing capsule can maintain its position relatively easily thanks to the simultaneous separation, because the recoil from the two separated parts is roughly equalized. I seem to remember that American engineers were also very enthusiastic about this solution. (It's like when the American re-engineering of the Soviet test space plane BOR-05 revealed that the Soviets had recognized and used principles that were still unknown to the Americans. As Scott last year showed, the resulting model developed at Langley became the mockup for Dreamchaser).

Those orbit modules are pretty cool. You could build a little bit of a space station by just docking them up and leaving them up there after each mission.

10:20 That wound was caused by his mic hitting his lips on ship landing. The most dangerous period in SZ5 is actually during its ascend, the ship was resonantly vibrating with rocket at 30-40K height, and Yang described his experience as "my organs being shaken into piece and when that was finally gone I feel revived". He and other Taikongnauts are really heroes for us.

I remember watching the broadcast of Shenzhou 5 as a kid on the bus home from school. I stayed glued to that tiny TV, missed my stop, and had to walk half an hour back. That day kindled my passion for space. Today, an experiment I designed just went on a "zero-G" parabolic flight. If I keep up the good work, perhaps one day my work will be on a real spaceflight. Also fyi: Shenzhou in Chinese means Divine Vessel. Mengzhou means Dream Vessel, and the space station, Tiangong, is Havenly Palace, or more directly translated as palace in the sky. Lots of mythological references, just like Japanese and Indian space programs, which I enjoy.

I was in elementary school in 2003 and I am sure we all watched Shenzhou-5 mission live on School's television that year. The false alarm happened during EVA in Shenzhou-7 was also live on TV.

I like that you are able to compliment another country's progress without judgement. Great job. I loved this video.

1:38 Project or rather “Program 863” stands for the year 1986 - March. It’s actually a big program not just for manned space missions but also covers a long list of important state funded projects in areas including space, biotech, IT, material science, etc.

I'm guilty of being one of those who thought Shenzhou was simply a slightly enlarged Soyuz, but there are so many obvious differences now that you've pointed them out. Watching the last landing coverage on the English language Chinese channel, I was intrigued by the Gamma ray altimeter. I'm sure that's a Soyuz feature too, but I'd love to know why gamma-rays are "better" than laser altimetry, especially with all the precautions required to keep recovery crews out of harm's way until the gamma source is appropriately obscured.

May be because Shenzhou is at least 40 years newer than Soyuz ))))

Always great content and contextual coverage - thank you!

Also interesting to note that the taikonauts that flew on Shenzhou 6 and 7 became one of the first commanders of the Tiangong Space Station over 14 years later

Interesting video thanks for sharing Scott

In my primary school, during the week of shenzhou 5 launch, our teacher had us doing all kinds of activities related to the space program. Everyone get to choose their own projects to work on. It was such an amazing time, I chose to do a presentation on the space suits. i edited and made then printed manuals for the different space suits for each of my classmates (each manual was like 20 pages long). The time i spent reading on how the suit design decision definitely changed how my life turned till now. I still think back to how i enjoy designing and making stuff. I now hold a degree in physics and a degree in computer science. Space programs like this have the ability to change a generation of people.

Great video, Scott! Thank you for making it!

I just found your channel and have been binge watching the last 2 days, I love everything space. So glad I found you!!

It's very unfortunate the three biggest players in space flight have never truly gotten along. Imagine what we could have seen with the US and Soviet Union working together in the 60s and now what the US, Russia, and China could do if we all got along. What a world that would be.

3:43 Side note on the rocket width: If we look at the Long March series. Bigger ones aren't any wider. They only get longer and longer. The rockets need to be transported by train to the launch site in Gansu. Then assembled on site. There are notoriously numbers of mountains and tunnels along the way. Thus, the rocket can't get any wider or they won't fit the tunnels. US doesn't have this problem because KSC is in Florida, next to sea. Rockets can be cargo shipped in. In recent years, China opened the Hainan launch site, which is also near sea. So, the newly designed rockets no longer have this constraint.

I love that you use Juno to show the Shenzhou mission profile, you're the reason I started playing it, and I've been hooked ever since.

I loved this video, would love to see this turn into a series

China did develop much of its own technology in the Shenzhou. But to the extent that they copied or borrowed from the Russians, remember what Leonard Da Vinci, the greatest inventor of all time, once said: "What one can copy, one can do." There is an enormous amount of thought and labor that goes into copying, and the outcome is insight, know-how, and sometimes, innovation.

When Scott Manley starts using Juno instead of KSP for demos, it's a sad day for KSP. ⚰

Fascinating stuff indeed! Thanks, Scott! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

But I still love Soyuz, with the beautiful Korolev cross, 60 years old work horse still carrying people to the space. Time tested and reliable.

Something I did in KSP is strap 2 boosters to the side of a larger payload to get it into orbit. Imagine Delta IV Heavy but a space station with an interstage instead of a full stage. Was wondering how practical would having stages mounted horizontally instead of Virtically would be? Obviously we're now seeing Falcon Heavy but they're just the launcher.

Just a pronunciation note because these things are often tough, "Mengzhou" in Standard Chinese is pronounced more similarly to how an English speaker would say "mung" in the first syllable (eg, "uh" sound instead of the long "e"). Obviously this still won't be perfect pronunciation (lacking tones) but it's a bit closer to it.

The footage of the space station in Juno at the end has reminded me that I need to play Juno again. Very underrated space game.

Hey Scott. It would be interesting if you do an episode about grid-fins ❤

That was very, very interesting Scott. I have read different things saying Shenzhou is better than Soyuz and that it is just a copy. Now I know for sure. Having the Orbital Module be able to function unmanned after the manned mission ends is absolutely brilliant.

Some points: ·Shenzhou is not just "larger", but actually being larger a lot. The exact diameter of Shenzhou's reentry module is 2,517mm, while Soyuz is 2,250mm. The habit volume of the module is 50% larger than Soyuz (6m3 vs 4m3), made it the largest reentry module before the "new gen" capsules like Orion and Dragon (all at ~9m3). ·We all know how the Komarov died because of one of the solar panels on the Soyuz 1 failed to extend and charging the batteries for parachute system. Well, this won't happened on Shenzhou - the Shenzhou's onboard battery itself could sustained the spacecraft for full power operation of 4 orbits, 6 hours. That means if the solar panel get stuck on Shenzhou, the crew will still have quite a lot of time to deal with it or just abort for emergency reentry. 4 orbits is enough to choose the downrange, so that they can return to the launch site instead of just landing in somewhere randomly in Pacific Ocean or Siberia... (and if they have to, the battery in the reentry module will be able to maintaining the satellite comms and emergency beacon for at least 24 hours. Leonov will be happy to hear that.) ·As for what happened on Shenzhou 2's parachute, rumors said it was because of the radio alttimeter somehow false-alarmed and cutted the chute before the capsule actually touched down. So as we know now, the Shenzhou's alttimeter still insisted to using gamma radiation source instead of simply radio to make detection, even that'll means there will be some dangerous and complex procedures after landing to sealed and removed the gamma emitter. ·There's 4 main engine nozzles behind Shenzhou's service module, as you can see. The service module's main propulsion system is double redundancy, with each pair being one of them. And, like the SPS of Apollo, all the valves and pipelines to the engines are double redundancy too. And even if both of them are all failed, the RCS thrusters will be the last redundancy, which is also double redundancy. ·CASC is always overstressed when it comes to reliability. Like, there's a insane requirement on the Long March 5, said the insulation layers must being able to keep the loaded LH2/LOX properllant for 24 hours after loading, in the 30°C+ hot summer of Hainan! That means ridiculously thick of foam layers that reduced the rocket's structure efficiency, everyone thinks that's crazy and completely unnecessary, untill two weeks ago when the Chang'e-6 just easily lifting off in the thunderstrom striking Wenchang. ·Also, since we come to redundancy, if you want to know, the computer system is triple hot redundancy in reentry module and double cold redundacy in orbit module. The computer system is based on MIL-1553 bus, if you're curious of why will China have MIL-1553 system bus, well, maybe you should search on "J-8II Peace Pearl".

My trip to Cape Canaveral is next week. I planned it last year just happens I might see the Starliner

Thanks! Interesting and entertaining as always.

I used to copy the math homework from classmates in high school. It’s a brilliant way to get a passing grade while remaining useless at math.

Excellent Scott we dont get anywhere near enough info on the Chinese space programme so thank you !

can you make a video on why the boosters on chinese rockets are tilted ~10° outwards? thats gotta reduce the coaxial thrust quit a bit

Great topic , thank you Scott

Outstanding! I am sure that this "episode" had way more hours than your average one.

Pretty sure the angara 5 is being prepared for human flight with a new Orel capsule being incorporated. The have pretty ambitious plans over the next 5 years.

The orbital module being its own independent spacecraft seems like such an obvious idea in retrospect.

Love the Juno footage! I dont have KSP, so its great that my favorite space game is getting some love.

Space always makes me feel better. Thanks Scott!

Hey there why didn't you answer the question between the dog, monkey, or rabbit which was the Capt

GREAT POST!!! Learned a lot. Do you think we will ever see a Shenzhou docked at the ISS, or a Dragon at the Chinese Space Station?

Shenzhou has those bulky packages in the descent module. Those contain survival supplies, same as Soyuz, right? Including a life raft? Is the orbital module still available for the crew on Soyuz or is it packed with cargo? The toilet is in there and the ascent/descent module is damned cramped. Do they always manage to make the quick 3 hour trip now?

Scott, not on topic but I have a question for you and anyone else with enough knowledge. Could spacex put receiver dish on every one of their satellites pointing out to space and create a lot of super large radio type Telescopes?

Congratulations on better pronunciation of chinese. You're nearly there, Scott.

It's neat to see the technological and human aspect to this vs the pure political aspect. It's neat seeing what humanity can do, regardless of the political climate.

The Fentyan space suit is a redesigned copy of the Orlan-M space suit, which has not been used on the ISS for a long time. Currently, space suits of the Orlan-MKS modification are used on the ISS - they are fully computerized and have a plastic sealing layer. They also have a nadir porthole on the helmet, which is now usually closed due to the use of hoods from American spacesuits with an American television system.

Great channel!

It's almost like having literally 10x the GDP buys you some more engineering work hours.

Curious Marc has an awesome series where they restore and explain the sojus globe...

What is happening with Starliner? Would you like to make a video on that? Thanks.

I’ve always liked how all of the different space programs have such iconic looks to them.

I still love that the Chinese used freaking wood for their heat shields. Meanwhile on Orion…

If it ends up with a record like Soyuz I will be thrilled, those old tubes have been sent up countless times

The three module setup makes a lot of sense even if you have a fatter rocket to work with, as it saves mass by making it so you need a smaller volume and mass to reenter. There was a very similar setup to Soyuz and Shenzhou submitted by General Electric, the Apollo D-2. The big visual difference was the aerodynamic shroud remaining in place.

One thing I have noticed about Chinese launchers is the colour of the rocket plume. It seems to have a brownish colour, at least when it lifts off. I know this could just be dust from the ground being blown away, but I also notice it later in the flight as well. Does this have something with the type of fuel mix that they use, or is it just my imagination? I know, odd question, but ever since I first noticed it watching Chinese launches, it have been curious about it. Thanks!

0:45 Just like the Soviets with the Voshkod based satellites but reversed!

I got chance to see shanzu1 shanzu5 and shanzu 7 capsules

That picture of LC. Yang Leway holding UN & Chinese Stitched Flag is Very important. surprising even.

8:37 Those names were the first generation Chinese astronauts. Most of them managed to fly crewed missions in the later years.

Such a pity that we can't all just get along in space, and cooperate. It's impressive what China managed to build up rather quickly. Imagine that, but with international cooperation!

It's not "objectively better"))). Soyuz is a self-sufficient spacecraft. 1. The Soyuz manned spacecraft has been a means of delivery to the ISS for more than 20 years. It doesn't need a large orbital module to do this. A regular household compartment is sufficient, where cabinets and a toilet are located. Let me remind you that during the ASTP flight, four cosmonauts and astronauts were placed in the household compartment of the Soyuz. 2. The reason for the use of the Soyuz spacecraft so far in the latest modification of 2016 is that this spacecraft is the "rescue ship" of the ISS. 3. The descent vehicle of the Shenzhou spacecraft is completely copied from the Soyuz-T lander modification in scale. Yes, it turned out to be longer, but in the case of transport operations to the station, it does not matter, since the crew is delivered to the ISS today at a regular launch of about 3 hours. 4. The latest modification of Soyuz - MS (upgraded systems) has a fully digital system and interfaces, including a new remote control. As for the periscope, this "Vzor" system is left for additional security, which is not mentioned in this video. 5. As for solar electric panels that do not rotate on a gimbal, this is a vestige of the fact that this design has been used for more than half a century, but it is also a smaller weight of this design for the instrument and assembly compartment.

Whattup Scott! Love your stuff!

Single stick version of Long March 10 apparently will have it maiden flight in 2025 or 2026. So I assume they plan to test Mengzhou again when that rocket is ready.

OMG, flag flapping in air at 12:27, even China are in on the conspiracy. (I'm kidding, don't respond to that) Didn't a UK RU-vidr find Buran abandoned in a hangar a few years ago then get humiliatingly ejected from Russia causing a bit of a diplomatic issue?

If it hadn't been for China's Shenzhou, I'd have been married a long time ago.

Can you do a video reviewing the arkbird space plane from the Ace combat video game series?

That pendulum solution is... Unique! Very Uri Tuchman.

Without Russia's need for cash in the 1990s, it probably would've taken at least another ten years or so for China to develop something similar to Shenzhou in capability, and who knows how much longer for something like Tiangong.

Thanks really great you spent time on Chinese space development, very neglected area ❤

any reason shenzhou orbital module not added to space station as an addition to living space before departure?

Hay Scott what game was that where you had shown the craft in orbit? it looked kinda like kerbal but was way different

People don't understand that when someone makes a copy for himself - he makes it better. That's why Buran was better than a shuttle, and that's also why Shenzhou is better than Soyuz.

Just happened to check RU-vid and then this is posted a minute ago. Fancy!

I love your usage of Juno: New Origins for visuals!! It's a hugely under-appreciated game for what it's capable of. I feel like most people tend to "default" to the Kerbal games simply because of their popularity and never give newcomers like Juno a fair shot. It's a game that definitely lives "under the shadow" of KSP, but has a lot to offer.

Appreciate the SimpleRockets2 footage

I sure hope it would be better than the 1960's era design it was based on 🤣

Which more important? Hmm... 1) Create Digital Control System 2) Avoid nearby villages with discarded boosters..

how long can the orbit module stay in space? can they dock it to the station to create extra room on the station after the capsule has returned even temporarily, or even act like the progress to receive waste and re-entry

Scott what is the software you use to show us these orbital sims?

2:35 the Shuttle was such a boondoggle. We found the most expensive way to get payloads into space.

Well duhhh. It's 30 years newer. What do you expect.

Great video...to be honest I always assumed that Shenzhou was just a repurposed Soyuz design, and not it's own thing. Interesting to see while they are similar, one is actually not like the other.

Hi Scott! Land safe!

"Шеньджоу" не может быть хуже, т. к., во первых, он на 50 лет моложе, чем "Союз", а во вторых, Россия передала Китаю многие технологии "Союза". Странно, что кому-либо нужно что-то доказывать.

I really appreciate that this video was well grounded and nuanced, especially with how it praised and appreciated China's ingenuity in Shenzhou's development. This was a real good video.

ESA's 'Hermes' space plane, was a project started by MBB in Germany, back in the 90's and was to be launched on an Ariane 4 booster.

Great vid!

I kind of assumed that long ago. Russia's education system collapsed around 1985 so most of their engineers are retiring or dead. They've been outsourcing their technical people for decades and have been cruising on USSR tech to this day.

You forgot to say that not only the Chinese copied the Soviet Orlan spacesuit. The new American spacesuit Axiom Space is also an almost complete copy of the Soviet spacesuits Krechet and Orlan. The Krechet spacesuit was created in the second half of the 60s for the Soviet lunar program. The Orlan spacesuit is the same Krechet spacesuit, but slightly modified. Orlan spacesuits have been used since the first half of the 70s on Soviet and Russian space stations for spacewalks, and they are also used on the International Space Station. So astronauts from all over the world were able to experience them, study them, wear them, work in them, and see how much better they were than American spacesuits. There is also at least one Krechet spacesuit in one of the US space museums. This is not surprising, since after the collapse of the USSR many things and ideas flowed from it to the USA. The genius of the idea of ​​the Krechet and Orlan spacesuits is that they have a door in the back through which the astronaut simply enters this spacesuit, as if into a small house, or a small spaceship. An astronaut can put it on alone, without the help of other people (unlike American spacesuits), and very quickly. This brilliant idea of ​​Soviet inventors seems very simple at first glance, but no one could come up with this brilliant idea before them. It is probably simply impossible to come up with something better than this idea, so all other countries have no choice but to copy this brilliant idea. China has already done it and now the US is doing the same!

Looking at the difference of diameter of the Vulcan launcher compared to the Starliner capsule its surprising that neither the Russians nor Chinese just didn't increase their capsule diameter. Those things appear to be very squeezey.

Here in rainy Livingston, Scotland🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿, I'm seeing pictures on my social media purporting to be: "The Chinese satellite "Longjiang-2" took a picture that shows the far side of the Moon, and behind it our beautiful planet, carrying life in the immense cosmic void". I'm having trouble fact checking whether or not this image is in fact genuine. Can you advise?