Currently I am studying your videos to make a training plan that fits me, but I haven't started experimenting. In this episode you made a strong point for body tension ^^
Team body tension. I trained a little core when I started climbing but quickly dropped it since I was already fit. I like a little hamstring and chest strength training to hold those compression positions. Otherwise steep climbing is good enough.
Core strength for body imbalances, it helps me with the lower back pain. I hate all the excercises xD Right now the pike on ball seems to be most effective. Anything wobbly. I love the point you're making for body tension. I thought that was pretty much the same as core strength. I definitely need to train my shoulders more, also for injury prevention. Thanks for the insights!
I greatly appreciate when an expert puts explicit effort into defining key terms before presenting complicated topics while also explicitly pointing out common misconceptions.
I like that you included a board exercise. In general, as a beginner, I am much more inclined to try an exercise that also involves actual climbing, rather than, say, start training with weights. After all, the enjoyment of climbing comes first. If I do not enjoy my training, I will probably lose interest at some point.
This the single most valuable channel for any beginner climber. There is so much misleading information also here on YT and i‘m glad you debunk the myths video by video. Thank you!
Hey Dr. Hooper! I'm a 3rd year physical therapy student with a background in swimming that just got into bouldering and I just wanted to thank you for this video! Very straightforward and helpful, greatly appreciate the thoughts and guidance! You got yourself a new subscriber 🤙🏼
Hey Jason, thanks for the video! I'm not sure if this falls within your area, but I think an episode on skin care would be very helpful. It's the limiting factor for time on the wall for many people! Have a great day.
Tension on the wall is a complicated subject and I think you did a great job exploring some of the reasons why. More than anything I think a good body-mind connection (i.e, the ability to coordinate specifically) makes the biggest difference in holding / losing tension. Second in my mind would then by upper body strength / endurance, as, just like Hooper mentioned, it's often the upper body that is the most taxed and the earliest point of failure. Still though, I don't think the coordination / technique aspect of body tension can be overstated. If you aren't telling your body to do the right thing, it often doesn't matter how strong you are on beta intensive climbs. (Obviously you can totally overpower intended beta, but I find at the advanced side of the spectrum its pretty inhuman to posses that level of strength as a non-professional.)
I am not a climber, but I like physical training. To me both your definition of core strength and of body tension - and hence your distinction between them - makes very good sense. I like training core strength with KB swings, russian twists, hollow holds and loading (sandbags from floor to chest high platform). 👍👍👍👍
Awesome and genuine content!! I also feel I spent too much energy on training leg raises and superman, while my priority should be strengthening shoulder and back. Boring and not productive 😂
Love your content! Climbing as sports, definitely needs more thorough research and correct information out there. Always good to have professional's opinions! Keep up the good work!
Run into issue with climbing >> scuttle on over to Hooper’s Beta and save a lot of time and heartache solving the issue ❤ thank you a million times over
Glad to be here before you hit a billion subs, aka: the number of people that would benefit from learning everything you’re explaining, this easily applies to a whole roster of other sports, anything with an explosive transition, god bless ya man
Love the offset deadlift! For me the issue lies somewhere between technique and coordination. My mind is often to focused on pulling, and I forget to push through the entire range of my core lower body and toes. I practice this a lot on the wall but also during my workouts. Two of my favorites are box step ups with dumbbell shoulder press and a landmine (seriously under used setup) goblet squat to shoulder press. The LM variation is nice because you can keep body tension and press into the bar during the entire movement. Although both these exercise are pressing/non ‘climbing’ specific movements, I still feel like they really help me visualize the way the whole body can function to make those big tensiony moves that can be so hard.
I think of core strength as the ability to connect the contact points and keep your ass in the box. Kettlebell snatches have been amazing for me, although I wouldn’t have guessed that when I started.
Very valid points. My humble input would be that, contrary to what people mean with body tension, stabilizing / having control of the midline is very important. The reason is that with an unstable midline, it's very hard to create torque or tension. Try this with your friends: ask them to go to a neutral spine, global rounded, local rounded (upper, lower), to go in a squat/deadlift in a pelvis neutral position. Not many have control of this. My point is that besides all the strength, we need the neural training to position our bodies; to know when, while in a weird position in climbing, we might not have a neutral pelvis, and if we feel that, to correct it automatically. What do you think? Am I way off or missed something? As always - a pleasure to see your videos! :D
A very good point! I think doing some core work like that, with those goals either in mind or explicitly stated could be useful for a lot of people! You would probably want to consider intensity and volume for a skill learning context which wouldn’t necessarily be the same as with strength/endurance.
Great content as always! Big thank you for helping me overthink and readjust my workout scedule once again. Last month I finally broke a plateau with climbing my first v8, eventhough I reduced (but optimized) my training besides climbing.
9:07 surprised you didn't pick an exercise that's based on anti-rotation to create resistance around the core rather than one in which you rotate the trunk.
That's great that finely someone talks about it. I'm tired explaining people that crunches won't help me, as I can clearly feel that its not strength I'm missing, but an ability to engage body in a split second, while doing very specific move.
Whenever I do my “core training” one thing I’ve focused on is anti rotation exercises. Doing planks but lifting one or two supporting (and alternating) limbs and holding for longer durations while alternating which support is grounded, doing banded torso rotations,arms extended, for 3 reps then hold for 5 - 10 secs
I used to train core with ab rollouts. Like how you mentioned, it simply took too long to recover from that training, around 2-3 full days off. The problem really was when my core was fatigued, it was virtually impossible to push the limit with other parts of the body. I now do weighted pullups and actually find my abs are usually a bit sore the next day anyway. For me, this is a much more functional training approach and a better use of my time now I'm getting older.
I don't know if you convinced me. I was climbing yesterday and some guy yelled, "engage your core!", and his beard was like 3 inches longer than yours..
Obliques are probably one of tje most overlooked imo. At least when i watch people at my climbing gym. But in general, the most overlooked is actually training the muscles you don’t really use when climbing. Like pushing exercises, the opposite of what we do when we climb (pulling). Doing only back and shoulder and arms etc with pulling exercises will make you better at climbing but having too much muscle in you back contra you chest for example will lead to other problems. For years I had problem with my rhomboid muscle and most climbers can probably relate. and training chest for example helped straighten my posture leading to no pain. And less prone to back injuries. It’s important to take a step back and value your entire body sometimes. Especially when you become older and injuries don’t heal over 2 weeks but 2 months!
I second this, especially after talking with the older generation climbers at my gym who have undergone several surgeries due to muscle imbalance and ignoring pain for years. Now, most of the weight training I do is antagonist / stabilizer work for climbing and skiing to make sure my body stays in balance. Most of my training for climbing is just climbing, a bit of hang boarding and campus / kilter board.
@@Govanification same here. I hike and skitour as well and having balance in training has really helped. 1hr at the gym prior to climbing, going through most of the muslcegroups in some way, focusing on muscles not used in climbing. Also makes sure I’m properly warmed up. I have gained 4+ kilos in the last 5 months just shifting focus in my training, and I still boulder 7c+ (v10?)🤷🏼♂️
Great video! Makes people focus on what really will help then reach their goals as efficiently as possible. I climb v7-v8 and never directly trained my core before
Well these kinds of questions fit so many things. Because sometimes it's hard to see yourself, and what you are missing, and not just in physique. I have legs from cycling, but never have done middle part really, and as I have bit of hypermobility in my joints I wonder if I could find some support from this hobby for my health overall.
True, man, I trained a lot of core because of wanting to do some advanced rings movements and holds. And while I advanced a lot achieving front and back levers, V sit, straddle planche, roll fwd and backwards some guys that I climb with that can't do any of em climb better and proyect higher grades. Climbing strength is super specific and I believe the focus should be on finger strength, if advanced campus and climbing a lot, and that's it. At least that's what I've reckoned. The rest of the training if you have time should be on prehab to stay healthy.
What's your take on FLIP (flap irritation phenomenon)? I would love to see a video on the topic. It's such an underground form of injury (something that happens during rehab rather) and most physicians don't even know of it.
This was very informative, thank you for the quality content! Also, thanks for thinking about the « hobbyist » climbers, who might want to train just for general fitness, for whom « training for climbing » is a bit of an overkill… 😅
I think the main purpose of training 'core', is about strengthening the mind-muscle connection. Isolating specific muscles or movement patterns helps me to actually start recruiting these muscles and start incorporating them in my movements. Also, I feel that with f.e. the copenhagen sideplank I can get a nice stretch going around my hip-area.
I do a lot of stability work (the training stuff you listed, as well as weight tied to bands) for my powerlifting motions as well as olympic lifts, incorporated through a wenning warmup on most days Going into climbing a couple days ago, instantly felt how "similar" it feels to climb as it is to lift, especially on bracing, stacking joints and generally a lot of trunk and glute stuff
Pilates is great for core strength because it targets the transverse abs and obliques! But I agree body tension is more important when climbing and footwork/technique is super important for that.
Dave MacLeod says that it is important to learn to apply maximum force with the lower body while achieving maximum accuracy with the fingers. This is counter-intuitive and needs to be drilled to improve proprioception and body-tension. Great video, thanks!
I think it may be helpful to talk about it in terms of inter or intra muscular coordination of the muscles of the trunk. We can think of body tension when we are talking about their inter muscular coordination and the ability of lots of different muscle groups to coordinate together to keep their body inline and on the wall. We can think of core strength when we are referring to intra muscular coordination of muscles in the trunk and their ability to fire and generate high maximal force. Unfortunately I think a lot people try to train the inter muscular coordination aspect at the wrong intensities. E.g. they perform front levers to work on their body tension when that is normally a fairly maximal effort and will be working more on intra muscular coordination. Likewise people may try to improve core strength, or intramuscular coordination, by doing loads of sit ups. These are generally at far too low of an intensity to actually cause an improvement in the muscles' ability to fire in a stronger way and generate more force.
Hooper hits the nail right on the head once more. As a V7 boulderer I'd share my completely personal opinion which I have no idea if it will apply to other people. I noticed that bein weak at body tension was a defined problem when I was transitioning from say V5 boulders to V5s on the moonboard. The 40deg training boards especially if they have small hand- and footholds target that weakness for sure. It could be just a lack of technique as well so use the boards as needed. Also I'd like to mention that moving to V6 and above you should definitely prioritize finger strength and board training above other things. I personally noticed the biggest impact there. Cheers, crushers!
I think the coordination aspect you highlight is severely underrated among most climbers. I rarely here people talk about it. One of the sea changes in my climbing progression happened the day after I did my first serious core workout. When I went climbing the next day, much of my lower torso was sore (abs etc). That really helped highlight what muscles engaged in certain moves and for certain kinds of tension. Because it hurt! If you could figure out a way to trigger DOMS at will, I wonder if that could be an effective tool for learning coordination more quickly.
Ha! I get complimented a lot for Na elegant climbing style, so I never thought, that coordination might actually be what holds me back. But after watching your video I have to rethink. It's mostly the dynamic moves that I just can't stand and I always considered myself to be just to weak or gain to much momentum by accident because of my proportions. But after watching your video I know now that in fact it must be coordination when it comes to quick moves. So all the Yoga and bodyweight training I'm doing won't really improve my climbing 🤔 --> Thank you very much for your Video! I think it will improve my climbing a lot :-)
@@HoopersBeta on a serious note though, it was a super helpful video, thank you. I've been adjusting my training to involve more moving with tension in different situation (slab,vert,oh,etc)
I remember someone once telling me that to be good at climbing you need to imagine yourself as a chain: every link in that chain needs to be strongly interconnected, if one link is weak, the chain breaks. It’s how I like to think about every aspect of climbing and my body as a whole when on the wall
Daddy Hooper coming in with the nuanced talking to we all needed :D Was wondering when that poll would be used! Thanks for improving our training as always!
Yeah the poll was super fun to have and use. Thanks for participating! Big shout out to Emile on this one too for putting in countless hours editing/organizing/directing.
I've been doing hip raises in a similar position to the inverted row variation, but with the hoops past my head. I've found that having the hoops 'behind me' makes me engage the feet a lot more. It was an attempt to train my body to avoid cutting feet on cave walls, but I have no idea if it's scientifically effective.
Hmmm... I thought core strength and finger strength were two of my biggest weaknesses so I've been doing finger training and lots and lots of crunches/leg lifts/etc., but what I've taken away from this video is that I should just climb more statically on an easier roof climb to get better at sticking to the ceiling. I guess that makes sense :)
Thanks for the video! Do you have guidelines for identifying the most important parts that need training? Also, which exercises would you recommend for grip strength? Are there any exercises I can do on the wall for that?
I'm coming into bouldering from a bodybuilding background. Was weird to hear people talking about ab strength when their posterior chain is doing all the work lol.
Philosophical question (not that much): If you're in fairly good shape and you don't need core exercises, let's say it's your strength. If you focus on other areas of improvement - let's say finger strength- and let the work out on the side: won't it become a weakness later on, if you stop doing it and your muscles degenerate? I would like to know how much you'd lose from not actively working out / how fast... Thanks a lot for the videos, it's always helpful !
If I understand correctly you’re asking if not training your core will make core strength turn into a weakness later on? In my experience, if you don’t have any specific problems with core strength to begin with, your core will get enough training from just climbing to serve you perfectly well. In other words, your core won’t become too weak for climbing just because you don’t train it “off the wall.” Of course, if there ever comes a time when you find that your core feels weak and is holding you back, it should then be relatively simple to add a bit of specific core strengthening into your routine and fix that issue promptly. Hope that answers your question! -Emile
Hey @Hooper's Beta, do you think that breathing in the right way is an important climbing skill? I ve heard that there are some breathing techniques, which should improve your climbing and when you watch adam ondra in some of his videos he is breathing very deep and intense at start of his routes. Is there any science behind this or is it just climbing esoteric?
Loved the video and the discussion, but I do have one small question and I think it relates to something I've even heard on this channel before from Dan Beall, in that sometimes an aspect of your skillset may be tested without being trained by that test. Because of this would we not expect that a significant number of the "just climb" climbers might in fact have really great upper body fundamentals from being heavily taxed while climbing, whereas the rest of their capabilities may be lagging quite a bit behind? Clearly individual examination would be the only way to really know for a specific person, but generally what portion of the climbing population do you think is held back by their core or lower body?
Good question! Just in my experience, very very few serious climbers are predominantly held back by core or lower body strength. This is not always the case with new climbers without other athletic experience. It is also not necessarily the case with unusual specializations (people focused on dynos, speed climbing, certain flavors of alpinism or slab - legs in most of those cases, not core) Because of this, I would typically mix in frequent, but low priority leg work to build control and awareness in a broad range, rather than spending too much time building crazy excess strength in those areas. In doing so, you should also be made aware of any ranges or movements that are lagging in a meaningful way. All of that can be disregarded though if you simply *enjoy* training those things. Even though you may not *need* the excess strength, you’ll have a good time, it probably won’t hurt, and you’ll likely find some opportunities to utilize it in unusual and creative ways. Core strength should be trained adequately by bouldering, and pretty much any high intensity strengths work.
Great video! Shame I missed the poll though. Quick question: We have a rowing machine at the gym and I am thinking of using it to burn some calories and strengthen my forearms, legs and shoulders. Do you recommend using it or should I focus on individual experieces? My goal is to burn some fat but also get stronger :)
Rowing machines are a great way to add some general cardio with mild overlap with climbing. When done within reason (read: be progressive and don’t absolutely kill yourself) it should be mildly beneficial with relatively little drawback to the rest of your training. If you happen to be a rope climber, or just want more forearm endurance, a cool way to upgrade a rowing machine is to attach something like a rolling thunder, or other thick bar grip. It’s very ergonomic and can produce a pretty ferocious pump after 5 or 10 min. That said, if your skin and tendons can handle it, you will probably see better benefit to your climbing and calorie expenditure just by logging some more easy quality mileage on the wall. Obviously lots of asterisks and dependencies here, but mixing in some rowing should be easy to try with neutral to positive outcomes for most people.
I hadn't read the name at the time (promise) and as I arrived at the last sentence I said to myself: "This was an excellent answer! I should say 'well said!' and 'thank you!' to this person for answering for me.... and then I looked at the name haha. Well said, Dan, and thank you ;)
I stopped doing core training because my tummy looks bloated all the time when I do core exercises. Instead I just do 10min traverse on a 40degrees spray wall to improve body tension. I think it helped.😊
so basically if also new to consistent fitness training than core strength training can be great but then once we progress to a good general fitness level then it lowers in value. Def the fingers/forearms tend to give out first and technique will come with time on the wall.
Without any actual evidence, I do firmly hold the viewpoint that most climbers train "core" wayyy too much and most of the time incorrectly for things they need to improve on. I've known so many climbers who do crazy plank circuits but can't climb V5. Like...maybe spend some time on your weaknesses?
I appreciate how you prefaced that statement haha. I tend to agree, though I’m sympathetic to climbers that have a hard time figuring out what their actually weaknesses are because it’s not always easy to figure out without quality external guidance. It then becomes easier to do exercises you see other people doing or have heard of before - though of course that can be deleterious to your goals. Hopefully we can help change that by making these videos though! I do think climbers tend to vastly overestimate the gains and applicability of core training relative to fingers, shoulders, and back training. -Emile
@@HoopersBeta So true! I've had the advantage of having an incredibly good coach who's helped me pinpoint those weaknesses. And yes, I think your videos do help climbers learn more about self-assessment. Learning how to self-assess correctly (and being truthful to yourself) is potentially the hardest skill in climbing, IMO, especially when you have people from all directions telling you this new thing is what you should be doing and giving what looks to be evidence for thus thing. But if you can do that well, all else with fall into place!
It be hilarious if climbing gyms started stocking both seated and standing calf raise machines, so climbers would be walking around with giant firearms and giant calves like cartoon characters
Is it true that the muscles in the core recover faster? I know there seems to be a commonly held belief that you can essentially do core most days without many drawbacks. I don't know whether this is true in general, but from personal experience of doing core training as part of more general climbing training sessions, it feels like my core recovers faster (at least compared to fingers and shoulders). So, my logic is that I might as well train core given that it isn't substantially limiting the recovery time between sessions. Is this a good idea, or will it still limit my recovery?
Whether or not you *should*, and how to go about it “best” is a long answer I’m afraid. A short answer though is that you can probably train core regularly without meaningfully affecting your recovery otherwise.
I'm with you on this. I've held the same philosophy and I feel like it's paid handsome dividends. Little bit of core several times per week makes for a stronger and more precise climber over time.
Do you think Kilter board is one of the best, or at least more secure, ways of training body tension? Would you recommend a weekly body tension workout with the Kilter board? I really enjoy it but have doubts on how often should one be using it, since it seems quite stressful on the fingers
I think the kilter board suffers from the same issue that many of the system boards do, which is that the footholds tend to be so large as to not teach a level of precision/technique that is either useful or required for certain climbs. This tends to be more of an issue at higher grades, but learning how to “keep tension” on bad footholds is still useful for all climbers to learn and something I don’t think should be postponed. That said, the kilter board can still be a great tool for training some aspects of technique, strength, power, “body tension”, and even endurance, depending on how you use it. If you’re newer to climbing or training, of course all these details can be overwhelming, so in that case I think a good approach is just to try it out, have fun with it and play around, and try to add some amount of structure or intention to your sessions. For example, maybe don’t climb on the board to the point where you’re absolutely thrashed; like any new training it’s good to ease into it. Also, maybe try some climbs at your limit but also do some that you can repeat somewhat easily to dial them in. And mainly pay attention to your fatigue levels and make sure you get “enough” recovery between sessions (highly personalized). If you enjoy the kilter board and find it useful, I say go for it! If not, then no need to force yourself - there are plenty of other training tools available. -Emile
That is certainly accomplished with mindful climbing, and is in a sense the example of our "climber A" scenario, where no additional core training is needed other than working on strength/tension on the wall.
Love board training for improving body tension! I think the feet on the moonboard do tend to be a bit too big/positive to really encourage precise technique and tension at higher levels, combined with routes that tend to foster "just yeet to the hold and hope you can control the swing and not blow your shoulders" movement. BUT I have an absolute blast on the moonboard and fully acknowledge it's value and accessibility for many climbers. Personally I think a really dialed in spray wall is superior for many aspects of training, but those tend to be harder to come by and don't have the appeal of a "standardized" board. -Emile
One downside of the Moonboard actually (though it does train “tension” pretty well) is a completely lack of bad feet. Many very strong and capable moon board climbers end up with a real deficit of awareness regarding foot pressure. Worth trying to find and climb on steep wall with bad and/or directional feet if possible.
Finger, back and shoulder strength tend to be the main issues, though technique and muscle “activation” (e.g. using your glutes to drive your hips into the wall and over footholds) also contribute a lot :) -Emile
@@HoopersBeta what exercises do you recommend to strengthen and achieve greater activation in the glutes and other things that can help drive hips into the wall?
There is some evidence that core strenght per se shloudn’t be an issue. The core muscles are thought to have great strenght reserves, the problem is their inappropriate and/or inadequate activation (Lederman- The myth of core stability). Do you have aby thoughts on this?
Hi! I took a look at the article you referenced, but at a glance it seemed to be entirely focused on back pain and it's relation to core strength (e.g. the authors appear to be questioning the validity of core strengthening as a treatment for back pain, or that back pain is a result of a "weak core"). Unless I'm missing something (admittedly I didn't read it thoroughly), I would hesitate to use any of that information in a totally different context, like core strength for pain-free climbers. The latter part of your statement I tend to agree with, though (that some climbers lack core coordination rather than core strength). Some people can benefit from practicing certain muscle engagements. For example, climbers often forget to use their glutes to drive their hips into the wall / over their foot. Simple cueing and practice can help them learn to engage those muscles on the wall and solve the issue, without having to increase the actual contractile strength of the muscle tissue. -Emile
@@HoopersBeta Really sorry, I missed your response. The interesting takeaway from that study for me was the measured discrepancy between absolute strenght and the activation of the core muscles. This would indicate the issue isn't in strenght per se, but in the inadequate activation of those muscles. I would add that even though strenght training would improve recruitment of those muscles, some neurologists would argue that this activation wouldn't translate to real movement well, but I don't have any data on that.
