Why Convex Sucks - For Now

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In this episode of Databased, Jamie Turner and James Cowling grapple with some bad news… they think each other’s product sucks…? Jamie and James candidly discuss the challenges and misconceptions surrounding Convex. For example, they explore the learning curve for new users, emphasizing the balance between conceptual understanding and practical application. The conversation also touches on the potential for developer lock-in and the importance of building trust with users.
Jamie and James also explore the intricacies of software development and user experience, including the challenges of transparent pricing models, emphasizing the need for relatable cost estimations based on user requirements. Additionally, they highlight strategies for enhancing customer support and education, ensuring users can fully leverage the platform's capabilities. By acknowledging their product's shortcomings, they aim to foster a more transparent dialogue within the software development community.
Key Topics Discussed:
- The initial learning experience with Convex, such as the time it takes for developers to grasp new concepts and methods.
- The difference between conceptual understanding and practical application, emphasizing the importance of both in mastering Convex.
- Concerns about developer lock-in, and how specialization in Convex might affect career mobility and skill transferability.
- The significance of opinionated frameworks that guide users, helping them make informed decisions while enhancing productivity.
- The balance between providing flexible tools and maintaining structured guidelines to support users as their projects evolve.
- The necessity of clear pricing structures, allowing users to estimate costs based on their specific application needs and user growth.
- The importance of robust customer support, ensuring users can navigate the platform effectively and maximize its benefits.
- The critical role of indexing in database management, emphasizing the need for efficient queries to optimize performance.
- The value of case studies to illustrate real-world applications and challenges, making technical concepts more relatable to users.
- The importance of educating users on writing efficient SQL queries, helping them avoid performance pitfalls in their applications.
- Implementing feedback forms to gather user insights and critiques, fostering continuous improvement of the platform based on user experiences.
- Incorporating positive affirmations and recognition within the development process to motivate teams and enhance productivity.
Key Takeaways:
- Despite the initial learning curve, developers can become productive with Convex within a few days of use.
- The importance of viewing oneself as a software engineer rather than just an expert in a specific tool, even Convex.
- The significance of establishing trust with users, especially when introducing a new product in a competitive market.
- The value of feedback from the developer community, which helps them identify areas for improvement in Convex.
- Releasing Convex may inadvertently seed competition, highlighting the dynamic nature of the software development landscape.
- Implementing opinionated frameworks in software design to guide users toward making informed decisions and enhancing overall productivity.
- Achieving balance flexibility and structure in tools to accommodate evolving project needs while providing clear guidelines for users.
- Developing transparent pricing models that allow users to easily estimate costs based on their specific application requirements and anticipated growth.
- Enhancing customer support by creating comprehensive resources and training materials that empower users to navigate the platform effectively.
- Optimizing query performance by focusing on indexing strategies that improve the efficiency of SQL queries and overall database management.
- Creating a pricing simulator to help users visualize potential costs based on different scenarios, aiding in budget planning and decision-making.
- Utilizing case studies to demonstrate real-world applications platform, making technical concepts more relatable and understandable for users.
- Educating users on SQL query writing to help them avoid common performance pitfalls and improve their data analysis capabilities.

Опубликовано:

16 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 34

@WebDevCody 10 дней назад

I'm so glad y'all are pushing out yt videos on your channel, and from the CEO and CTO themselves.

@latinrev3822 9 дней назад

It's refreshing to see a company acknowledging their faults and not have a pr member in reddit trying to justify it like it's not a non-issue, awesome stuff guys

@santicomp 10 дней назад

I'm thinking of migrating an Atlas Realm app to Convex, I will do a separate branch to test it out. I really enjoy the Zen of Convex, thank you for this great podcast.

@chantastic 10 дней назад

dig this format. grateful to see you talking about your product with your engineering caps on. dig it.

@seans4290 10 дней назад

I use convex for every single production app i create. I love it. This is a brave video you guys made, good work. 👏👏

@patolorde 10 дней назад

Convex is an amazing product. it has a really simple learn curve for developers.

@convex-dev 10 дней назад

Thank you!

@ooccococococooco4512 9 дней назад

The best thing about convex is that it makes a large backend feel small. Everything just feels so lean, fast, easy to change. So many developers would love using it

@SonAyoD 8 дней назад

A pricing calculator based on type of app and users is an amazing idea!

@sinmaster3098 10 дней назад

I love convex, I was new from non it , and struggling with other backend service then I see convex and now I can do all complex form submission, file storage, and sorting and searching with it I love but if there was a doc where I can see all mutation and query function example it would me more easier for newbies 🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤❤❤

@CurtCox 9 дней назад

Why not default to automatically adding indexes as needed? Is there a technical problem that makes that approach too hard?

@convex-dev 9 дней назад

We debated it a couple of years ago when we were first setting out. Magically indexing can unexpectedly result in unexpected performance or cost changes. So we decided to stick with explicit indexing. However, we are planning on adding indexing "hints" and assistants to help you identify queries where we think it's worth it or where you've missed one. That feels like the right balance of helpful and explicit to us.

@JamesCowling 8 дней назад

There's a write and storage overhead for any index added, e.g,, if a developer has 100 fields on a document and an index on each one then that will mean updating 100 separate indexes for every write. Firebase has indexes on all fields but that feels like the wrong default for growing applications. We didn't want folks scaling out of Convex because of issues like this. Hopefully index hints in the dashboard etc (when we add them) will help developers get used to the idea of defining their own indexes.

@ThomasMonk1 10 дней назад

Is there any way to purchase one of those Convex hats and Convex stainless steel tumbler?

@convex-dev 10 дней назад

DM Jamie on discord! We'll figure it out. 😃

@JamesCowling 10 дней назад

No charge of course

@semyongufman3911 9 дней назад

Convex is awesome tech, but it still retains biggest downsides of the Firebase: 1. Unpredictable pricing which can easily skyrocket. 2. Vendor lock in. As long as self hosting is offered as it is now, you are locked in into using their platform. Since the pricing is only suitable for hobby projects or for VC-backed startups which can benefit from their startup program - this is a huge problem. In addition to that, most of the features are underbaked, helpers implementations have lots of bugs. I believe this stuff going to get better, but unless first 2 points are fixed - I don't believe it is a viable choice for anything apart your hobby apps with 0.5 users (or VC-backed startups).

@convex-dev 9 дней назад

Both of those are actually in the video. Check it out!

@handfuloflight 9 дней назад

You write it is a viable for hobby apps with 0.5 users only because those will not incur any bill? Tell me which business will not incur bills in the process of servicing real users at real scale. On the contrary, the perceived downside with there being costs to pay for the hosted version of Convex, forces you to think about your business model, pricing and economic feasibility. This rigor will only lead to stronger business in the long term. And it is better to start with rigor as a foundation than try to apply it as a retroactive bandaid. And I don't agree the pricing is unpredictable, all of it clearly specified and listed. Unless you are speaking to the Convex team arbitrarily raising price?

@semyongufman3911 8 дней назад

@@handfuloflight Take a good look at function calls section in the pricing, you will see that explicit calls, scheduled executions and SUBSCRIPTION UPDATES are counted as function executions. Let's say you have some public data (it can be something like upvotes indicator on a social media post), which can be simultaneously seen by let's say 50 users, each update to the underlying data will trigger 50 functions effectively. How are going to estimate your costs in such case? I understand that every business has operational costs, but with lower operational cost - come higher profit margins and the ability to provide your users with cheaper service. Please note, that there are tools (combinations of tools) which allow to achieve all of the stuff that convex provides which are literally x100s (in some cases up to x1000s) cheaper. It's not something I am hypothesizing about, Firebase has the same pricing model in regard to function calls, you can effortlessly lookup many horror stories about them :)

@semyongufman3911 8 дней назад

Also I don't need to be forced to think about business model, pricing and economic feasibility, I do that voluntarily

@handfuloflight 8 дней назад

@@semyongufman3911 If you're building a hobby app, then as you said, you have nothing to worry about because no one will use it. If you're building a business, then Convex isn't forcing you to do anything; you have to think about those factors anyway or you don't have a business.

@seanZG 9 дней назад

Offline First and Multi region edge global consistency.

@convex-dev 9 дней назад

All on the roadmap!

@seanZG 8 дней назад

@@convex-dev offline was scheduled for the latter part of this year, last time I checked, whats the sitrep and roadmap timeline looking like for offline/online sync?