Why Did My Joola Ben Johns CFS Lose Its Spin? 

PB Studio here (second account) very interested to hear your Power Air findings. Mine after 3 months of use for singles was still producing the same RPM. I have been hearing people say that their spin dropped as well, so it makes me wonder if mine just wasn’t hit enough 🤔 Either way, this is a fantastic video.

Former high level youth tennis player 20+ years ago who’s getting into pickleball. I was constantly restringing rackets because of extreme spin. This is an interesting video and I guarantee this is going to apply to me. This issue at hand is the expense to value ratio for pickleball paddles (at a advanced user level). The more frequent players are going to need the ability to change paddle faces more frequently WITHOUT having to pay for a brand new paddle. The reality is that the sport needs to allow for interchangeable paddle head components, so consumers don’t have to purchase brand new paddles after 3 months at $200+ a pop……..

The work you put into this video is above and beyond. Thank you for the level of detail and education with what goes into Carbon fiber and PB paddles.

Such a thorough explanation of carbon fiber paddles and spin. Keep posting these great videos.

Thanks for another great video covering new territory with great detail!

Great video, John. Lots of details I wasn’t aware of. Just bought my second Joola CFS after 7 months using my first one. The difference in spin is incredible. The hitting surface on the sweet spot of the older paddle is practically smooth to the touch. So cool to see local content creators on here. Looking forward to more content.

Hi John, Thank you for the good and detailed explanation. I got the info, which I am looking for . One of the best and worth explanation I have seen so far out of lot of pickleball videos. 👌👏🎉

Thank you for the education, I appreciate your deep dive.

Love how deep you go on this! Been playing my Ben Johns Joola for about 4 months, and have definitely seen a decrease in spin....as well as a cracked handle at the base of the face. Hard to recommend at $220, although i love the paddle otherwise.

Thanks for this. Subsequent to some of your videos, I bought th Ronbus R3.16. It's cost-effective and is a substantial upgrade for me.

Great video! Really appreciate the depth you went into your research and explanation. I bet you grew up watching "How its made" videos. :-) Keep up the great content!

Awesome Research Output - thanks!

Terrific video breaking down the characteristics, causes, and rate of wear of carbon fiber paddles. I have noticed this myself; thank you for digging into it! One thought: it seems like you are getting most of the wear and spin loss in the center of your paddles ... maybe try to hit with the edges of your paddle?

Very very interested analysis thanks for your efforts

Great video, wish people made more videos like this!

I have had my Joola CFS for about 3 months and noted it was getting harder to obtain good spin. I am a newbie and thought I had lost my spin technic. Thanks to your great video and research, now I know why. If you are a pro player you can toss old paddles away for new ones anytime. For most of us recreational players we like to hold on to them as long as possible and for some it is a hefty investment. I went from a wood to a 40 dollar paddle to the $ 230 Joola CFS thinking I would save money by not buying multiple cheaper paddles on the way up as I have seen others do. Lesson learned. I almost feel like going back to my 15 dollar wooden paddle and just sticking to it : ) The whole paddle was the sweet spot: a bit heavy with limited spin...but actually not too bad.

Great breakdown video. Hopefully manufacturers find better carbon durability without increasing prices too much.

Great video! Thanks for the analysis John. After testing a used Ben Johns joola I decided to go with an electrum model E and have been happy with the spin for about 2.5 months. But I can definitely notice a decline in spin rpm. It hasn’t been terrible but it’s definitely noticeable.

Awesome Research Data - thanks

Really enjoyed the in-depth information. It’s clear you have done your homework. This was the most helpful video I have viewed. I could use some technical advice for our company. If you would care to reach out to me, it would be greatly appreciated.

Just watched your video again and was shocked that I didn't notice the Meshuggah t-shirt peaking out from behind your hoodie the first time 🤘. Looks to be a 2022 tour shirt as well; they killed it last month in Dallas.

Really great content!

Great video! I learned some things today about carbon fiber and appreciate your research. I play with and love my CRBN1 but do feel it has lost some spin since new. 😢 Don’t want to be replacing my paddle every few months either as that adds up. Will be interesting to see how the technology changes/improves moving forward. Hoping for better durability in the future.

I am in the process of trying to import a Prodrive pickle ball paddle from Florida to western Canada. I'd like to see you do a review on this one, it has kevlar in it. Thanks!

The most valuable PB Paddle video ever made... PERIOD. It shows that "out of the box" reviews are nearly worthless. The avg player can't replace their paddles every month or two. Johnkew provides real world data once the short honeymoon phase ends. I too purchased a BJ-Hyperion, the rep said it I would see an increase in spin once it "broke in". The reality is the paddle is spinning significantly less after only 2 months. What really matters is, how much spin does a paddle provided when it's not brand new anymore. It's a well produced and insightful review, and I hope he continues to create.

Strong science/research background 👍👍

Great video, this is the first video I've watched of yours. I quickly subscribed and hit the notification button. You're doing something right when you have Braydon and Chris commenting on your content. Also, it wouldn't be a comment section if Pickleball Will didn't bust Chris's balls a little 😉. It's a bit disappointing to see the premium expensive paddles lose their spin after such a short period of time. At that rate you're spending about $1K a year on paddles. Hopefully the companies work to make these surfaces more durable. Well get at least 6 months on a paddle which is what I expect or hope. I look forward to your future videos.

Nice job. Thanks.

I am so glad I found this video. I thought I was going crazy. I bought my 1st Joola BJH CFS16 and after 1 month the paddle felt very smooth and I could get very little spin. It felt so great to begin with that I thought maybe I did something wrong to it and I bought another one. After 3 weeks my new paddle developed a small crack 1/2 an inch from the side edge, about 2.5 inches long. The grip and spin was reducing at an alarming rate. To spend almost $500 on 2 paddles that are almost useless with 2 months of play is ridiculous. I won't buy a third.

I have both the crbn 1 16mm and Selkirk power air, both paddles have fantastic spin (I think the crbn beats the power air initially )but they both seem to lose quite a bit of spin capabilities

great info!

Awesome video. Do you have a background in materials, or are you just learning all this for your videos? Either way its really cool and I learned a lot!

Very enlightening. What to choose then?…

Great information. Thank you. After watching this video, I bought a digital microscope to inspect the surface of my paddles. I’ve been playing the Electrum E for 5 months. I play 5-7 days/week for about 3-5 hours/day. I play a soft game with lots of drops, drinks and resets. My serve has pace and spin and I regularly mix in hard drives, especially on the 3rd. The paddle has one small, visible scratch on the surface which appeared after my partner and I collided. I thought it was paint from the other paddle, but the microscope reveals that it’s a tear. However, that’s the only spot that looks similar to the damage on the Joola that you examined. In general, the Electrum damage appears as a disorganization of the weaving pattern. The pattern remains visible but mashed down a bit. As for performance, I can’t provide empirical data like you and Chris have collected. However, I use a great deal of spin on my serve. And as recently as this week, good players have expressed their frustration concerning how difficult it is to return. So the paddle is still gritty enough. I own several other paddles, including an original CRBN, a CRBN with a serial number, a Selkirk Power Air, and a newer Gearbox. I haven’t played any of those paddles very often since I really prefer the Electrum. But I plan on keeping an eye on their surfaces. I am particularly interested to learn about how the microscope works on the Power Air and how the grit holds up. A recent poster on a Facebook group complained that they got a year out of an Electrum when the handle broke. Their previous Electrum had a broken handle after 8 months. To be honest, I am surprised that the fiber surface and core last as long as they do. If I get 8-12 months out of a paddle I will be pleasantly surprised. Keep posting. You’re videos are great.

Johnkew - Thank you for the in depth analysis. There is an advantage for pros playing with new paddles every tournament… or every day of every tournament… compared to rec players using a paddle for 3+ months. I’d like to ask you about your RPM spin analysis. I’d like to do some testing, but want to know any best practices so that results are comparable (if others were to try to replicate the test). What do you recommend? Thanks in advance!!

Can you make similar detailed video for gearbox cx14 paddle?

So... until paddle manufacturers come up with a material or manufacturing process that increases the surface durability, would we not all be better off buying "intermediate" paddles, and just changing them out twice as frequently? I can buy two Franklin Signatures for the price of one of Bens new Joolas. What other considerations come into play... power, control, sweet spot forgiveness etc? And how do the mid-range paddles stack up in these regards? Thanks.

Thanks for a very informative video! Your findings confirm what I had suspected with my 5 month old Joola BJ Hyperion CFS paddle. That is, I feel like it has lost spin, and power as well. I actually noticed a decrease in power before the decrease in spin. That said, my Hyperion still has good spin and power. Just not at the level it did when newer. Thanks also for the spin information concerning the Selkirk Power Air's hybrid surface. I've heard it has tremendous spin, but this is the first I've heard about how long it lasts, which is something I've been very curious about. I've been thinking about buying the Selkirk Project 003 Invikta when it comes out, currently scheduled for Nov, but now I'm not so sure. I've never hit with a Gearbox, but I would be interested in any findings related to their carbon surface. Thanks again for the great work!

Have you ever tested the Engage Pursuit EX? Would like to hear your results on this paddle. Thanks Gary

Don’t the 1 year warranty replace it? Also thanks for the great info in your video. Is there any paddle currently that don’t lose spin long term?

Great analysis. Do you plan on testing spin and wear for the Gearbox CX14? Love to see those results. Keep up the awesome reviews.

Cool analysis. Which of the paddles had the most amount of play?

I really enjoyed this video. I was a bit shocked at the microscopic views of the damaged carbon fiber weave. I own a second generation Canadian Singleton paddle. It uses 3k carbon fiber weave, but with Dupont Nomex honeycomb. I have used this paddle regularly for 8 months, 4-6 hours a week. The surface looks brand new. Now, this paddle has smaller sweet spot (11mm thick), and the ball has almost no dwell time on the surface. Yet, I find that I can still spin the ball reasonably well (table tennis, squash, tennis background). It's partly technique. But I don't think that this paddle spins over 1200rpm, and certainly less than the Vanguard Epic v1.0 I have tried. (A polymer core paddle like the Vanguard Epic though has such beautiful dwell time and feel.) Regarding longevity, I have two thoughts. All the weaves of the reviewed paddles appeared to be "plain weaves" of carbon fiber, that is, one strand up, and then down. This gives high crimping where the tows bend. The Singleton paddle uses a "twill weave" where the tows only go up and down every two tows. There are fewer weak spots with a twill weave. This is exactly like the Gearbox CX14s. Secondly, my guess is the the polymer honeycombs have more give than the Nomex paper honeycomb. Carbon fiber weave has high tensile strength but low ductile strength. Thus, when the weave gives more when used with polymer honeycomb, it may be more likely to break. These are all just guesses. The industry has to do something about the path it is on. I think that this attempt to market spin, yet creating $200-$300 paddles that wear out in three months is a fool's errand. But sadly I can only compare to the golf industry, where all the hype is about having the equipment do the work for you.

This is great. I’ve heard it said lots of times that carbon fiber gets grittier overtime as the fibers fray and gives the paddle more spin. Myth debunked.

wonder what a cx14 looks like. they use a carbon core and face so maybe the softer core helps in degrading the surface weave faster?

Would the CRBN Pickleball Paddle Eraser help with this?

Great info. I play about 12 hours a week and spin quite a bit. My question is would a mid priced paddle outperform an expensive paddle that is a couple months old? In other words if my budget is $600 per year would 4x $150 paddles (replaced every 3 months) spin better than 2 x $300 paddles replaced every 6 months?

JS good morning and thank you for the education on Carbon fiber weave. I was going to buy a Joola Vision paddle but now I am worried this paddle will have the same issue. Although their site claims it CGS uses a Flex 3 carbon surface. Have you heard of any issues with the CGS paddles.

How can you know if your paddle has authentic Toray Carbon in its construction?

Do you know if the Joola CGS surface is any better then the GFS surface? Thanks for your review.

Great video John! Way better than Chris Olson 😉

Besides the color is there any difference between the Hyperion jardin 16 vs Hyperion Ben Johns 16?

I have seen this and other carbon fiber tests. They say three months but is that 3 hours a day 5 days a week or one hour a day, etc.

How many hours did you use the paddle during the 3 months?

How many times per week over the 3 months were you playing with the Hyperion?

The dirt and small sand particles u find in outside courts gets on ball and that ball works as sandpaper

@Johnkew Pickleball Great video and some interesting insight. I would like to discuss your finding offline. I think we could do some other tests also that would shed more light into things. Let me know your thoughts on this.

Have you ever tried testing the spin rates of older pickleballs compared to new ones?

Just wondering how much of a difference in spin would be to a paddle if you played outdoors compared to playing indoors?

any advice on the Legacy pro paddle--not much info out their..i really enjoy your in-depth reviews

Is the c2 version improved in terms of spin?

Great video, to help add some context to the loss of spin with the Joola after 3 months, how many hours a week do you play on average with the Joola?

Y'all should start using rubber coverings like we do in table tennis 😁

Did you think it would last forever. 🤔

Wow, you just saved me 250$. Which paddle maintains the spin better?

It's one of the frustrating things about PB paddles; we can't restring or re-rubber to restore performance like in other racket/paddle sports. But why not? What's stopping the USAP from allowing replaceable adhesive skins that meet USAP limits for roughness and friction? These skins could be made of the same woven CF. It could be similar to how the ITTF regulates blades and rubbers.

Mine lost a lot of pop too

Could you please look at durability of adhesion paddles when it comes to applying high RPM spin? Thank you for considering this!

Super interesting. We should start calling you the "Myth Buster" of Paddles. of maybe the "Hype Buster" to be more accurate. Gearbox uses carbon fiber "tubes" not sheets, so I wonder what they look like magnified. Thanks for taking the time to show these findings. I'm the marketing heads are not happy with these findings. Or maybe it's part of the plan to keep you buying. A paddle that would truly last a lifetime would have to cost 1,000.oo bucs.

I've only been playing PB for a little over a year and I figured out 6 months ago these paddles all lose their grip some quicker than others but all of them do! I had a pro a tell me not to buy the paddle she uses because it loses it's grip to quickly. She got them for free but new I wouldn't be happy if I had to buy a new paddle every 3-4 months!!

Please include Players Pickleball paddles, with their carbon fiber facing next time. Thanks!

Great video. I know I wouldnt be happy if I paid $219 for a paddle and 3 months later it has a huge decrease in spin.

My Franklin Tour Dynasty 16 lost all of its spin after 2 months of use.... its like a super slippery board now.

Honeycomb paddles only last about 3 to 6 months. Either you are ready to buy replacements repeatedly, or just go Gearbox.

Gearbox paddle design increases spin in a unique way: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AlxtHtIKafo.html Side note: I am not employed or associated with Gearbox, just a consumer of their product.

Where's the Selkirk video?

For what these cost, they should last a lot longer

@johnkewpickleball , I know you get a ton of paddle test requests, so here is one from a USA company, with USA sourced materials and built in the USA Bird Pickleball, but before you skip my request, the have a new "Pro paddle" T700 , 16.5L, x7.5W, 51/2 inch handle length , 14mm face, 8.2 OZ ---LIFETIME warranty , Its new and called the "Kestrel " could you please review this paddle? imagine a USA made USPA approved LIFETIME warranty paddle if its a performer! I have one , but im not an expert like yourself, the loss of grit or spin is covered I believe! its about a $230 paddle. It's their top tier - Thank you!- I am not associated at all with Bird Pickleball in any way.

My joola hyperion has increased spin every time I use it. The face adds more grit as I play it. I just love the paddle. I feel like I have complete control and I can side spin it almost across the court

Not only spin loss, but also delamination for Joola paddles early after purchase.

Isn't bizzare that CRBN was banned for too much grit...then now they come out with a new paddle with more grit...and now it's legal?? Does that make any sense?

No way I pay what these cost for this kind of (short) life. I come from a tennis background and they do need the spin imo but not at that expense. I want you to put rubber from a ping ping paddle on it. Now that would be cool!!

If you talk to Tech support at JOOLA they will tell u to use ONLY dish soap with warm water to clean the paddles!!

I think it’s kinda ridiculous we pay 200 plus dollars for a premium carbon fiber paddle and only after 2-3 months of regular use it’s basically pinned obsolete and handicaps your game big time compared to a fresh paddle. I can maybe see a paddle losing spin after 6 months but it should start dropping the moment you play your first match.

Glad to see people using objective data to call out manufacturers who are predating the popularity of this sport. If you’re charging 200$ for a paddle, it had better play well for over a year. Period.

1. These paddles are not made to last 2. At most these paddles are designed to last 4 to 6 months of constant use 3.

Might be worth looking into why raw carbon SHOULD NOT be used for something involving many impacts!!! Carbon is extremely brittle!! I have been in the yachting industry for years and carbon is not used in certain areas for this exact reason

Where can I get a grit spray to add more friction? The paddle I have doesn’t give me enough topspin. I want to add more topspin, especially on the low shots near the net, or on lobs.

Pretty frustrating if you have to replace a $200 paddle every 3-6 months...

From what I’ve seen and notice. The face just wears off in about 3 months

Three months? With a $200 sports instrument? Ridiculous!

I learned a lot, but don’t you think it’s a little disingenuous that you based a lot of comments on analysis of varying lengths of use(1 week, 6 weeks and 3 months)? I would have liked to seen a graph showing the starting and ending rpm for the 3 paddles all after a consistent number of playing hours.

The future paddles will be 3D printed with an open metallic plastic matrix that will allow air to flow through. I can't wait for this honeycomb crap to be gone.

"Joola Ben Johns CFS"? Barney, what the heck is he talking about?

Very deceptive title. Hopefully people listen to the actual full clip or they will have an inaccurate impression. Your conclusion of damage after 3 months can’t be compared to one week of use on a competing paddle. You should also point out that the brand new Vanguard has less spin than the 3 month used Joola on the chart you post in the clip. Just seems like an unfair negative shadow cast on a brand. Also, very nice of the company to appease your request for some stats. Pros often use a new paddle every week just because they are free for them but 3 months of continues use might be very reasonable to some.

Easy answer… they are made cheap and sold expensive haha

Fix your mic.

Because you guys are playing a “ sport” meant for elementary school kids .. #dontbeafraidoftennis.

Great video with details and specs. Question: Would you be interested in working together to develop a new pickleball paddle for retail sales? I have a company (Fedcor Global) that does product development and sourcing. With the growth of pickleball I considered this as a possible future product we might offer. Let's chat if interested. Thanks, John Fedorjaka