Why did so many German Officers have scars?? Mensur 

You know, I always assumed that they just depicted German officers in movies as having scars because it makes him look more like the bad guy, but they didn’t always explain why they had them in real life. Learning that there was actually a legitimate dueling reason for the scars was actually pretty cool! learn something new every day!

One of my friends got a fencing scar at university - in the UK in the '00s. We decided to recreate the fish slapping dance from Monty Python as a duel, and he got cut on the face from a dorsal fin. Still, he can legitimately claim to the girls in the pub that it's a duelling scar

A little correction: A Mensur usually doesn't end with first blood, it ends either after a certain number of blows, or when a cut is deemed dangerous by the doctor on site. This is called "Abfuhr", and it typically happens when two cuts are crossed, a cheek is pierced, or a piece of skin is severed (like it happened to me, for instance); however, the rules vary regionally.

Addition: Some people have put a horse hair in the open wound. When the wound closed after a short time, the hair was torn out to open the scar again. This way the scar became more imposing.

Ironic the stereotypical "bad guy Nazi scar" sport was banned by the Nazis. How funny history can be.

As a child, my father had a bike accident that left him with a marked scar on his face. When studying medecine he found himself to be respected by many others -and especially old doctors- because they thought he got the scars through Mensur.

The content is interesting but the fact that you led with the answer to the question within the first seconds is what makes it extra amazing!

This still happens! I met a few guys who were fraternity members in Hamburg when i was there during my study abroad, and visited their frat house where they had practice rooms for this exact thing. The swords are razor-sharp! One day my frat member friend came into class with a huge scar on his face, apparently he had done one of these fencing fights with a guy from another frat who disrespected him. They take it super seriously and the fight goes on until the doctor supervising calls it off because it is a sign of weakness to give up during the fight. Edit - the improvements to safety head-gear weren't the case at the place i saw. They just wore goggles that cover the eyes and ears, leaving the forehead and cheeks exposed.

My ‘sports injury’ is from fencing. Blew a calf muscle because I did NOT stretch before a bout. When asked why I was limping, I replied “got hurt in a sword fight!’

I remember when Colonel Klink described a German officer expected to visit Stalag XIII “He gave me my duelling scar.” 😊

I love this channel's format! A simple answer early in the video with no lengthy introduction, followed by related information.

My art teacher back in the early 2000's had those too. My father, who had known him all the way back when both were attending university, told me of the practice and why he had such gruesome scars in his face. Edit: On my fathers funeral, his old frat members (he was a doctor) attended it all with their own sword.

Excellent video. It never occurred to me that was the reason for the scars on many of the German officers. I thought it was from war wounds from WW1. But that wouldn’t make sense for younger officers who didn’t serve in WW1.

I am German. My Grandfather (Wehrmacht Officer) had a scar from Mensur. He survived the eastern front and a couple of years as a POW in Russia. He was very proud of his scar, but sometimes complained that he would have prefered it to be "a little lower, and more to the right". He told me as a kid that one day i will have one too (nope, lol).

I myself am a member of a German fraternity that is obliged to fence. In fact, the frequency of scars has decreased, but more because of the way fencing is done today. The technique is a little more "advanced" and the obligatory hitting area in most German fraternities is much higher up on the head, which makes defence much easier. However, I know some people who are still scarred today, it's not entirely uncommon. The video you showed when you talked about safety precautions is complete nonsense, though. The Mensur takes place under the same safety precautions as back then and the helmets you showed are only worn for training purposes. So the possibility of being hit sharply is still there and is what makes the mensur in itself. Apart from that, your video was amazingly accurate.

I really like how you gave the answer right away

My great-grandfather had many scars on his face, he always told the story to my dad that when he was captured people thought he was a relative of a wealthy officer but he said that he was just bad at fencing

"Don't trust a sword master with both eyes and all his teeth" is a saying I encountered from historical swordsmanship. Great video Johnny ❤

thank you so much for giving the answer right away, followed by details, without stretching it to 10 or 20 minutes

Friend of mine has a big scar in his face not due to mensur but he fell into glasshards as a baby. when he wanted to join a student union (Burschenschaft) at first glance they thought he was a member of another union calling for satisfaction. He had to explain that he was new and non of their members was in trouble. In some citys, areas people do care about a "schmiss"

We talked about this in fencing club. The students would sometimes rub salt in the wound to make it scar more, or cauterize them. It was an old aristocratic tradition that stayed in some form in the fencing world.

I had 8 Mensur in total. This is really a nice summary! You nailed it pretty much. Cheers from Germany

I had never heard of the film, Royal Flash until I watched this video so I went and watched it for the first time. It's a real hidden gem. British humor and action. It's really great. Thanks for making me aware of it.

I love how you started with the answer, I was already mentally preparing to wait a while to heard it somewhere mid video

I am a member of a German fraternity. We still practice academic fencing as it was used in the 19th century. When you visit traditional college towns in Germany like Heidelberg, Tübingen or Würzburg, then the probability is high that you will see young men with scars (Schmisse) on their faces.

I remember reading in Theodore Roosevelt's biography (written by Edmund Morris), that in his youth he was staying with a family in Dresden. Two sons of that family studied at the University of Leipsic and were members of a dueling corps. One, a famous swordsman, was called Der Rothe Herzog (the Red Duke), and the other was nicknamed Herr Nasehorn (Sir Rhinoceros) because the tip of his nose had been cut off in a duel and sewn on again.

Add it to the pile of “why women live longer.” 😂

Ngl this tradition was pretty badass

Very nice video! I'm member in a student Fraternity here in Germany and fenced five mensur. Calling them duels is strictly prohibited, since according to german Lawduels are prohibited. It's considered a sporting event where both sides agree to violence. Basically like a boxing match. The word "mensur" derives from "measure" as in distance between the Paukanten (the fencing guys). It's strictly prohibited to move anything but your arm during fencing. If you move anything else or even flinch, then youre instantly disqualified and have to repeat the mensur to restore your wothiness as a fencer. Every City has its own nuances to the rules but they're all similar. The clips from "Hans Westmar" are quite accurate whit the speed and technique.

As someone used to seeing Olympic fencing and HEMA, seeing this form of fencing is very interesting. If the fencers weren't standing still, this would look like some sort of old Hollywood movie type fencing where the fencers were clearly aiming at each other's swords and not each other. Regardless, this was definitely not how I imagined that these duels were actually fought. I've known about this dueling tradition for a long time now but I had always thought that they were regular style duels with the entire body being a valid target and a lot of back and forth.

When my dad was in university in the 70s or 80s here in germany (i cant remember the exact year) there where people who would participate in these duels as well. He never participated in them but he saw plenty of people with scars like that so now finding out that this was a more wide spread thing its quite an interesting feeling for me.

And quite possibly scars from combat, German Officers actually led their men into combat....so there's that.

The more modern video you showed in the end is of course only of training. The protective equipement of a Mensur today consists of the Mensurschläger itself with the large basket (Korbschläger), although in a part of Germany, a lighter kind of Schläger with a sheet metal handguard called Glockenschläger is used instead. The fencing hand is also protected by a heavy leather glove with kevlar or chain mail inserts. The arm is protect by an armgaurd of similar material up to the shoulder, and the body is protected by a chain mail shirt. The neck is covered by special made wrappings similar to the arm, so there is no risk of deadly injuries. It is also made sure that there are no gaps. Finally, the eyes are protected by a special kind of metal glasses called Mensurbrille. So of course there is still a chance for strikes to the head or face. There is always one or two doctors, an impartial and a second and several assistants for each side present. A Mensur isn't always over when one side gets hit. There is always a fixed number of strikes in each round and a fixed number of rounds, although it may end early when one side shows fear as in crying out or stepping back etc., or when one side is too badly hit. The first and sometimes second Mensur that members do is more regulated in the number of rounds or also strikes, and the types of strikes and techniques that are allowed, but these rules vary from region to region. Most members don't desire scars as it rather shows that your opponent was the better fencer. There is no victor in a Mensur. A Mensur is always done between members of different fraternities. The fraternity brothers of each side decide if the performance in technique and bravery was sufficient. In fraternities where a certain number of Mensuren is obligatory, this leads to the member having to repeat that Mensur. Mensuren aren't done because of insults or anything like that anymore, but just to uphold traditions and for sport and maybe a test of bravery. It is also a chance to do something special that isn't done by that many people anymore.

Great video Johnny! I am an active member in a fencing fraternity and you did a pretty good job explaining the Mensur. However, it is difficult to find videos online depicting the Mensur accurately. During a real Mensur, the "Paukant" (Fencer) is not allowed to say anything. Most importantly, you are not allowed to flinch, even if you cannot block the oncoming blow. The Paukant has to stand his ground and "take the hit". Receiving the hit during the duel does not hurt that much, as you are full of Adrenaline. The stitching of the Schmiss immediatley after the Mensur if usually quite painful, as there are no anesthetics and the adrenaline starts to wear off :) Cheers!

The sport of 2 guys with real swords cutting each other in the face looks so bad ass. Gotta bring that sport back alot of people would pay to watch that in modern times.

Oh man!! I saw Der Untertan by Wolfgang Staudte and thought the Mensur fight was some kind of parody. I am glad that clears up something I saw in a film. Great film and amazing director!

Today the perception of scars in fraternitys shifted. If you have one it just shows that you didn't train enough. I fought two Mensuren myself and I am just as proud that I never received a hit, as they were proud to wear scars back then.

Just found your channel and man, you have given me so many movies to watch, the fact you always put the title in the clips is just about the best thing ever, thanks for taking the time to do it and your videos are pretty awesome as well.

The German pilot in The Three Amigos had a Mensur scar on his left cheek.

The schmiss (or dueling scar) was a sign of nobility, and of bravery. They got those scars from fencing, the most well known figure to wear those scars, in my opinion, was Lieutenant Colonel Otto Skorzeny. Fictionally, Leon Askin's General Burkhalter character from Hogan's Heroes wore those scars as well.

Thank you for sharing. I admire how you have the gift of condensing historically significant information in an "entertaining", yet vitally important way.

I am actually in a German fraternity and did this in my active time. Few comments: 1) no need to talk in past tense, it’s still thing 2) there is no screaming and dodging, your frat will remove you immediately from the ground. You are bringing dishonor to their colors and your name and have to do another duel at a later point of time to clean the shame. 3) scars are only important to very few people nowadays. I don’t have scars and inflicted few minor wounds, but my opponents didn’t do anything to make them worse 4) no beer and cigarette tastes better than the one after the fight

What a cool, thorough, and succinct video on an on odd piece of WW2 history. Guess I'll be binge watching your videos tonight.

We should bring this back, shit is badass

Puts a whole new meaning to watching Scarface in the german dub

Like many others here, I knew a bit about duelling scars, but this is way more than I ever heard of, or even seen! Thank you Johnny it's brilliant. Well thought through and presented, you win a cookie lol

You answered the question within the first 3 seconds then elaborated for us in detail, respect.

When i was young, my German Mom always told me to stay away from Men that have a Schmiss. Fraternity people are dangerous, she said. Always took that to heart

Bismarck himself fought 26 Mensuren (duells) and just got a small Schmiss (cut) to the nose. A brave man!

well done video. My Father and grandfather were in Fraternities but only my dad was in a "fighting fraternity". Fun fact sometimes they would put a horse hair in the wound to make sure it wouldnt heal quickly if the cut was only minor to make sure they got a good scar

Nothing essentialises this more than the saying; "Bleed by example".

Im German and I have a scar on my face but it came from one of those spinning doors in the supermarket.😅

Nice, well researched! I'm a member of a fencing fraternity, i even have a big Schmiss on my cheek. It's always nice to see good, non-biased content on the topic

While not officially, Mensur is very much a thing still among some student groups here in Germany to this day, tho rare

i'm reminded of the scene in the 1971 motion picture *kelly's heroes* when carl otto alberty gets out of his tiger I. that was badass. no explanation for the squinty eyes.

Funny how Rommel, one of the top officers in the army had no visible scars despite being deployed at Isonzo on WW1 and leading a behind the lines operation during the Batlle of Caporetto.

This is actually still practiced in some "corps", albeit with many safety precautions. Mark Twain describes it beautifully and, of course, in a very fun way in "A Tramp Abroad".

As a friend who was heavily marked with facial scars and was quite intimidating, once said to me (Before I got to know him well,) "Never be afraid of a man with a scar on his face, be more afraid of the man who put it there"

Not sure I've ever seen a video that answered the question in the title so quickly

My father did Mensur too. But I have to say that the safety only increased during training. They fight without safety to this day.

Nice explanation. Being in a Burschenschaft and having several Mensur-Scars myself, I can underline most of the things that were said. Only the video samples out of movies don‘t reflect the fencing style very well.

Well, 55 years old and today I can say, I've known about this. Always seen the scars but never thought that this would be the reason behind it! thanks for the video and information

There was a large machine shop across the street from my grandparent's garage. It was a german company and the plant manager had those scars, and he was very proud of them. My grandparents were German so he used to come over to get his car serviced and sit and talk with my grandfather in the office.

Thanks for answering the clickbait in the first few seconds. You’re a hero for that

German here ✌🏼 We still have old school Mensur in some Studentenverbindungen (student parties or whatever) and a couple of guys still wear the scars with proud. Some traditions never die

My German grandfather was in one of these duelling student fraternities. I remember going to a few of their "old boys'" social evenings. No women allowed and heavy drinking was expected. I also had 2 German work colleagues with the typical scar across their face. These fraternities though were not really for enjoying oneself although that was part of it. They were meant to support new students, help them find digs and be there for them if they get into trouble, fr instance with the police. And later it was a big bonus if the boss of the company you want to work for was a fraternity "old boy". He would make sure you didn't just get a job but also that you climbed the company hierarchy speedily.

This goes back 5000 years…. Not just with Germans. Life is a little different back then. People and individuals were more dedicated to the profession….. their profession was part of their identity and purpose. Recognition for bravery and courage weren’t handed out like candy and Boy Scout badges back then. A warrior had to do something extremely brave, or courageous to get the attention of his superiors. For the 99% of soldiers that fought on the field their scars were their badges. Many of them did very brave and courageous acts, that defined who they were, but didn’t get recognition. Their dedication and their sense of belonging to their community/nation was the bond that justified it all. Battle scars were a way of showing people “I was there, I fought that and I made it back”. This is all before war became commercialized.

This was AMAZING !!! Thank you !!! PERFECT editing. Best I’ve seen in 40 years!!!!!!!!

In your video, it comes across as if Mensures are a part of the past. In fact, Mensures are still fought in German-speaking countries today. The risk of injury is still quite high today and I know many students with scars on their faces. In the past, however, students made sure that the scars deliberately become severely inflamed so they are more visible. This is rarely the case today.

This practice did not only take place in Austria or Germany. Fraternities and their customs spread everywhere where the ruling class consisted mostly of Germans. This also includes Latvia and Estonia. Although back then these two countries were part of the Russian Empire, the local ruling class consisted mostly of Baltic Germans. Also, the two main universities in the region, the University of Tartu (Dorpat) and Riga Polytechnical Institute, were mostly German and the students organized themselves into fraternities.

In one of the Flashman books by George McDonald Fraser, supercoward Harry Flashman has the scars for a very nefarious reason!

The scars still happen regularly, what has improved is medicine and more importantly the Schmiss has lost its societal value. Back in the day it was seen as the entry card into higher society, so many participants would have their wounds sewn together with horse hair, so that the wound would infect and leave behind a visible scar, nowadays it mostly just looks like a scratch at first glance. (The blades are razor sharp and get disinfected before every "Gang" (4+ strikes per side according to the local rules before there is a short break), so they cause very fine and clean cuts that are easy to tend to)

Brilliant video! I was always kind of curious but just automatically assumed their scars were combat related. Thanks a lot for the explanation!

very good :). as a german i already was familiar with the topic but it took me by surprise to see someone cover the topic and get it right on top of it. great work.

I always thought the scars gave them character. now it makes alot of sense. thanks for spending soo much time making this ❤

4 minutes perfect amount of time to answer titular question, this is groundbreaking I’ve never seen another RU-vid video like this

I enjoyed the use of the significant clips from "Royal Flash". "The Flashman papers" are some of my favorite books, and I was often surprised at the amount of historical facts were written alongside the extravagant fiction of the stories.

What a fine video. Nicely researched and documented. Good German pronunciation. Good show, John. Thanks for sharing. Regards from Reggio Calabria 🇮🇹

This makes the slap competition look high IQ

A scar on your face from a duel sounds way cooler than how I got a big scar above my right eye as a kid. I smashed my face off the corner of a button rack while running around a store.

Wow! Actual legitimate history that doesn’t just focus on the nazi party! Just from this short video, I learned plenty of interesting information! You’ve definitely earned an upvote!

This video is brilliant, had no idea about this, and was expecting it to be some hollywood trope (scarred soldier = badguy, hansome-fresh faced guy=goodies) or some such. Amazing!

True fencing is all about manipulating distance and timing. This is just to get a scar.

Just got my first one yesterday haha! Nice video very well made. Greetings from Germany

This is awesome I’ve been to German college towns and another right of passage was going to their local school prison where they would paint silhouettes of themselves and friends on the prison walls. They’d use a lamp to create light for the shadow and the silhouettes of a group would be layered/tiled together with their names

Never knew this. Great video!

Interesting video. Having seen several Duels in person, I can tell you that the full protection is only for practice rounds and real Duels still only include the goggles with eye and nose protection

Since I have one of this so called "Schmiss" myself yes this is still a thing to this day. Also the Rules may vary depending on the regional Rules so does the Protection. Always protected are the eyes, the nose and neck and in most regions the ears. Also it is only allowed to aim for the head and if "Tief Partie" with "low" hits the left check if both are right handed . To hit the right check is forbidden cause you cant guard it. Also there are many strict rules that are to follow to ensure that only clean cuts are a posibly outcome if you get hit. There is much more about this and it is very complex also there are difference between "Pflicht" Mandatory Mensur and a Personal one . It is meant to strenghen youre character and stay silent don't do illegal hits during a "relative " safe match between u and another one who is at the same level if paired correctly and as it should be in the "Pflicht" ones . Also no not all german fraternities are right winged or nazi affiliated thats also bias because its old an has historical background. Also they say its sexist because in "schlagende Verbindungen " there are only male members. Thats for one we have "Anstand " decency and don't want to harm women cause who knows decensy you don't harm children , don't hit women and have respect for elders. Also there are biological diferences and no I don't want to discuss this hornet nest deeper. Sadly there are of course black sheeps in these that are in this political spectrum but at least where I was they were frowned upon and not liked.

Having founded and ran a fencing club in college, I remember having to clear up some misconceptions to some of the non-American students that we were not a Mensur club. It's always a bit of a culture shock to find that Olympic fencing is not the most well known type of fencing in every part of the world.

a very Germanic tradition , the will to show courage in extreme ways

Fun fact. They put horse hairs into the open wound so the scars would be bigger and more pronounced

"Let's stand still in and wave swords in each other's faces" Yeah no surprise that women live longer than us 😂

Most identifiable was Otto skorzeny in my opinion

I am from Germany Bavaria i am 26 years old and the fraternitys here still do this, i know a couple of people around my age who have scars like this...there are different types of fencing with more protection, or less protection. The city i was Born in "Erlangen" is quite famous in the fraternity Community, because the fraternities here still fence without much protection...

“Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. But glory lasts forever.” Keanu Reeves in the movie “The Replacements.”

So the joker was german, his dad and him used to fence in the backyard instead of playing catch.

Good question. Always been a low key trope with the Nazis/German officers *having scarred faces. I never would have named it but now that you bring it up, i realise it's a thing

Great video! I've always been curious about why German officers had scars on the faces in movies and anime.

We have to keep in mind that history is the story of humanity and that the bad guy Troup of the scar faced villin in most cases comes from our veterans who saw things they didnt fully understand during their service. We can measure the changes in society and determine what truth is but its just better to have records like in this case.

thank you for providing the answer first and the explanation after