Why did the manufacturer paint over their ratings? 

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Thank you so much for this, I fly paramotors and I was point loading the bottom corner of my carabiner with softlinks. Thanks for making me safer!

Clearly we need you out on a paramotor with a linescale to check the expected loads

I knew it was going to be a fascinating video when I saw you had a pile of the exact same thing. Any time a test needs that much repetition, something is being learned, and that's why I'm here!

There has to be someone who knows someone who can get this guy a high speed camera. Would be fun to see exactly how stuff comes apart!

Before doing the pull tests, make sure to do some NDT (non destructive testing). Dye penetration test would be suitable for finding fractures.

I run soft shackles (5mm dyneema with a button knot that i learnt on this channel) as my main PG attachments. Reason being is you can't cross load them, they're not susceptible to fatigue, they're lighter than the alu or steel equivalent and should have way more strength than needed. Just wish i had a line scale and a slacksnap setup to proof load them 😅

A guide at an adventure company I was working at dropped three brand new aluminium carabiners about 100m onto rocks. No visible damage but we tested them all. They were all rated at 30kN, two broke at around 10 - 15kN and one failed at 1.2kN. We did the same test with steel carabiners that had also been dropped (this time deliberately) and they all deformed at around their rated strength. We found every time aluminium breaks suddenly whereas steel deforms, the gate pin breaks and they slowly bend. Even a bent one is still strong enough to hang on. The company went to all steel carabiners the next day! For personal use when you know the history of your gear aluminium is great, but when used from a common gear pool where you don't know what happened to it yesterday steel is the only logical choice. But warning, stainless steel is less predictable! It can work harden and break suddenly.

Thanks! This weekend doing Acro, I landed in my wing and the forces on my harnes after the rescue opening was AT LEAST 1500 kg ripping some of the stitching on the harness and some metal pieces (which is plenty strong enough in normal situations). with a normal harness i would likely have fallen out of it, but this one had backup straps behind. my friend say that I pulled 17G's when the rescue opend.. this again adds the question about the carabineers/softies used between harness and rescue.. but this should be more simmelar to climbing.. also, doing tumbling, its normal to pull higher G's than 3.. usually about 4 when in infinity and close to 7G's in entry.

Thanks, great episode! I do paragliding (not paramotor) many gliders use soft shackels instead of carabiners for weight saving. Also many gliders got regular Edelrid locker carabiners coming with the wing. Side note, pls hook up 2 linescales to the raisers of a paraglider, do spirals and se How much force you get!!! Would be a FIRST in paragliding history and very exciting to see!

Should see how webbing acts when left flat like on one of these square carabiners versus in the curve of an oval carabiner or something like a d-oval. I'd bet that those square profiles don't help at all, and in fact are worse since even fat webbing might slide to the gate side.

Mildly related note: I've noticed a theme of goods and zero liability Chinese goods. An easy hint is names you genuinely believe are made up (because they are). They make a brand, let it get threatened with lawsuits, fold up that name and do a new one. If anything happens to you or your stuff, good luck tracking down the company to sue because they won't exist. This is a feature, not a bug. It's no surprise to me they'd simply paint over old stock and print something on top. I am not sure how to help consumer awareness as most consumers mind their wallet over their common sense, but niche things like this definitely shine a light on areas some might not presume this practice occurs in. I am grateful for your work!

Thank you so much for this video, I use soft links to connect my carabiner to my paramotor so I point load the low side of my carabiner. This video shows that I need to change it so it is using a full width webbing. Thank you!

Ryan chasing rabits is what i am here for. So pumped for the damaged caribiner break test!!!

Thanks, Ryan and Tucker.

Coffee and watching stuff break.... happy Wednesday.

Great episode 😊 Don’t fly but watch Tucker Wish I had more time to Climb but live vicariously though you both. Hope to see sum fall Big wall living footage soon 😊

The ones where the pin blows out of back of the gate, I would really like to know what just a little bit more meat back there would do. 19 kn out of the alibaba clip and the pin rips though? don't cut it so close back there and that thing could do like 22 kn... I for one can not wait for the HowNOT2 carabiner production series in 5 years. You've just had the ultimate R&D cover and have a drawer of designs and specs to storm the market with the perfect design 🤣

I'll never do paragliding but I would totally back up with the soft shackles.

I have always wondered why they don't back up with a soft shackle for years now

By an incredibly wide margin one of the most important and useful channels on RU-vid.

super interesting, thanks for the vid. Still digesting the information. I've always stuck with the alu that is supplied with my harnesses, but maybe I should replace them more than I have.....but maybe its also time to learn soft links.

Wonderful, in-depth testing of so many combinations. Bravo!!!

Super Excellent, thanks!

Thanks, Ryan. Great episode.

It's common sense to not buy biners and the like from Chyna, but it's still valuable to have the lesson visually demonstrated.

What a great video, perfect format

I'm not fully cognizant of how the 'wing' works, but it's basically a parachute right? If you lose one out of two attachment points, doesn't that end just fly up uselessly and turn the whole 'wing' into a rope dangling above/behind you:?

What would be wrong with just using round stock (climbing) carabiners instead of those boxy ones in paramotoring?

Nice! You got the video done in time. How did the trip up Ingalls go? Can’t wait to see the angel cam footage.

You dont make paramotor content *yet*. Thanks for this, I've been wondering about my air extreme caribeaners and have been putting off swapping them out. I do a lot of acro and I'm a moron so that's going to the top of the to-do list.

When I saw you guys use a paramoter to haul the zipline...line all I could think of is TUCKER GOTT CROSSOVER PLEASEEEEEE! And here we are! Before the climbing rabbithole I went down the paramotor rabbithole, but it's much more cost prohibitive and therefore the entry barrier is a lot bigger than climbing lol!!

Love your content! I have a vague recollection of penetrating indicators that are used by mechanics to search for stress factors (on steel only? maybe?). One direction you could pursue is to find some collaborator that could do this type of flaw analysis before breaking that big bag o' carabiners. Google isn't helping me there, so this may be moot.

People do backup with soft shackles sometimes, at least for paragliding, not sure about the motor stuff. It's rare though. A lot of the newer lightweight harnesses are switching to soft shackles in place of the bineers. Also note that we do have a reserve parachute in case of catastrophic failure, altough you need altitude to use those.

Great idea with the inexpensive back up.

If I was a parasailor and I saw your video I'd only fly with 2 carabiners on each side so 4 in total. Stack them with the gates on opposite sites so you got 1 solid shackle on each side. Maybe that would negate some weak points? If you ever test parasailing carabiners again that would be an interesting test to see I think. And good video!

Using a quick-release device where a quick-release device has no business being makes as much sense as seatbelts on skateboards.

I would bet they have steel test fixtures for those that underperformed but weren’t outright lies. That way as soon as the gate stretches the load transfers to the other side. I am amazed though that Caribbeaners actually break at the rated strength. Every other item I’m aware of needs to test at 1.5x the rating.

Hey Ryan, what would be the issue with using locking climbing carabiners on a powered paraglider? Like an HMS carabiner perhaps?

Kinda strange that you have a community and (be it a small one) industry making their stuff flying and they went with having two single points of failure instead of the usual airospace approach of "how many times redundant can we make it". Wonder if anyone is counting accidents.

I have always wondered what carabiners hardened to around 51-53 rockwell hardness would perform. For reference a machete is about 48 hrc swords are 48-55, and kitchen knives are around 52-60 hrc They should still deform before breaking but eventually they may potentially fatigue faster

Great content. Maybe Tucker Gott aught to teach you how to paramotor

The steel ones in the first half of the video look like they are bending and ruining the gate integrity. I think the lead in to this effect is that steel usually has better fatigue properties than aluminum, (you can flex steel back and forth more than aluminum without fatigue issues). An aluminum part, therefore ends up being stiffer than a steel part with a similar load rating and fatigue life expectation. My dad had a similar issue with front rims on a cabover semi. The steel rims flex all the way in to the bolt holes at the hub(cabover trucks can be very mean sideloading the steer tires) and allow the steel rims to point load a few holes to very high stress, he solved the problem of steel steer tire rims cracking at the bolt holes by switching to aluminum rims which have to be designed stiffer that the steel rims, which means the aluminum rims don't overload individual bolt holes as severely due to the extra stiffness transferring the load in a more spread out manner. (think poking someone with a nail through a pair of denim pants vs through a leather belt)

One of your better videos dude! Super interesting enough........(I don't climb OR paramotor, so take my opinion with a grain of salt 😂)

You need some kind of tshirt with halfdundant :-)

Ayy I surgested you to him!

So is the lack of backup like part of it? Do they get more out of the flight knowing that if something breaks there's nothing backing it up? I'm only kidding. What I'm actually curious about is why the parachute flyers seem less concerned with redundancy.

What about the quick release carabiner can you try one ?

What about just using a steal “u bolt” like on a car trailer? Cheap and strong with just a small downside of having to screw in the bolt.

wheres the link to the last vid?

ขอบคุณทุกวิดีโอที่ยอดเยี่ยม ทำให้รู้ถึงขอบเขตความสามารถของอุปกรณ์❤

noob to this subject, do any of them have double notches for better grip?

I thought I clicked on an electrical video LMAO That thumbnail looked like you were showin’ electrical tape over a cord, And I assumed it was some cheap electrical something that couldn’t actually the amount of electricity it claimed to.

Yknow I dont think I'd feel safe with only two carabiners. Im thinking more like two on each side, cus like you said, you lose one and now you're flying at an angle. I dont trust myself enough to clip everything in properly and have all of it hold up 100% of the time. Redundancy is a good thing when it comes to safety.

Be great to see breaks in slow mo!!!

That isn't incorrectly stamped, it's purposefully done that way so you can't read the initial stamp, which would've been far lower. Because any regulatory body that uses metal density analysis will make it incredibly difficult to decipher anything other than the newly repeated stamp.

I'm half way through and this is the data I've wanted to see for decades. I hate that notch design on those carabiners. It just looks weaker. There is no UIAA certification markings on any of those sketchy carabiners and I don't know if there is a paramotor carabiner certification. Can you double up carabiners on each side? Those flat sided gates look like they are designed to be side by side.

I thought this sounded familiar, then I see my comment in the video!

I'll never buy biners with wings instead of hooks after watching this. And I want a paramotor.

So this is why climbing gear is certified--small things like the insufficient lip to keep the gate in place would have probably been caught if this was certified.

I'm not a climber but I still want a bunch of these carabiners, a harness and a hank of climbing rope..... It might even make me start climbing, at least in trees first. 😂

16:51 why cant you add some dynema in a loop backing up the beanz

10:30 so, having no knowledge of either climbing or paragliding/motoring, but i do know at least a little about materials properties. Having a replacement on an aluminum part like a carabiner based on time, rather than number of uses seems off to me. If you follow 2 to 8 years replacement timeframe, but someone is using them weekly they're taking more loading cycles in 2 years than someone doing a monthly use every 8 years. I know its on the user to know and check for signs of fatigue, but it just seems like they should recommend replacement at X uses under normal conditions (like no falls in climbing or excessive stunts in gliding).

I ain’t taking up Paragliding any time soon 😮😡🤯😂👍

On the stamping, misstamps happens constantly at the most reputable manufacturers in the world. What they do though is either throw them out or sell them off (ideally without their logo) to someone else as B-stock. This is most likely what happened here. These are the ones that got stuck in the printing machine and sold to someone else to recoup some costs instead of just sending it to the trash pile. At the end of the day stamping straight and accurate is a science of it's own, nothing like calling a metal supplier and buying some stock from them. Who the original manufacturer was is a mystery though, and you should not trust them with your life.

I'm curious to know if you doubled the carabiners (put one right next to the other with the rope or strap through both) will that double the strength?

I'd suggest they increase the pin sizes and stronger materials! Add webbing to the corners where they snapped and thicker wings in the lever lock!

Run some lifecycle tests. Pull some stuff at 50% rated load until it fails. Automate your hydraulics so you can run it hands off.

Forget carabiners i want those ropes

my question is, what's the advantage of this? Why not use a steel HMS ?

Are you telling me my Carabiners I ordered from Temu aren't safe for me to use on my parachute?🤔

I got some autolocking "climbing" carabiners from amazon. Didn't take long before I realized they definitely do NOT autolock. Definitely don't recommend anything but 100% reputable sources.

If one "goes" you are not just "hangin weird off your wing...you are plummeting toward the earth in a free fall followed by a tail of cloth and string....(unless you have a reserve and are able to deploy it high enough, or it didnt break apart completely) Also, soft shackle back-up is a great idea!!

SAFETY IN A BUCKET 🪣 I buy my crews fall protection from Lowe's or Home Depot and it comes in a bucket, many of us are climbers, should we be using our climbing gear when we are in a roof? Please test construction fall protection

One Thing is for Sure, NEVER cheap Out on Equipment which your Life dependts in it

Perhaps they are rated in hundred weight? As in the old British 100lb

This is so bad. For several of these. If safety equipment is rated for x they should, under no circumstances, fail for forces under x. The fact that some of these failed at close to HALF the force they are rated for is extremely dangerous. Good rule of thumb is that a system should hold 3x what it is rated for if the system failing means death for someone, something like this where a few of them breaks at half the rated force is just unacceptable. Doubly so when you consider short term/long term stress and material fatigue.

There’s a philosophy PhD here. What is a palimpsest where they erase the original text and write the same thing over it and do it repeatedly?

I have a really hard time believing that that rating is not just flat-out made up or that material was changed or something. I mean you're not shocked loading anything here. This should kind of be the best-case scenario...

There are only a few actual carabiner manufacturers in China; if you are talking about a vat of AL, then you are talking about cheap poor, quality keychain units which will snap under a load of a flower pot full of water; these are made by backstreet vendors who have zero QC, and would mix the materials and mostly likely never pass any standards, you never know what old crap is mixing from wheels from a pram or stolen gate posts from Chornobyl. Actual manufacturing is using 7075 AL purchased in long-length rods, which are supplied with a certificate of manufacturing to a quality standard of GB/T 3191-2010 These rods are cut into lengths and bent to approximate the shape design of the carabiner to be produced. They are then hydraulic stamped into shape, polished for a smooth finish, then powder coated using Japanese paint conforming to GB/T 3191-2010/ The logo is laser etched with model code and production run details, which can then be tracked to the original batch rods used. Sample testing per 1,000 to destruction to meet qualifying kN ratings is registered against each production run and kept in a log. This channel is terrific, and I hope you keep strong and healthy due to your recent episode. Bless you, and take it easy.

If these Carabiners cant handle the load why not use something tried and true, Towing Shackles?

That’s scary… I’ll keep climbing instead.

holy snapping duck $#!t batman. If it don't spec up , it don't spec up. . some of those gates look dodgy as hell

Answering as a paramotor pilot, My rational behind not having a back up on the wing carribinners is the setup issues and over redundant safety factors on the carribinners(assumning you can trust the listed strength). Most wing and harness connection points dont have extra space to put a backup binner or sufficient soft shackles in. Even if the soft shackles are small enough the added settup of both binners and both soft shackles all having to be set up while wearing the motor before launch and after landing would deter me from this over redundant set up. The strentgh rating on the binners are supper good enough considering you will never have just one under load. Both connection points will be under a shared load when flying and in most circumstances couldnt exceed the strength of a single carribinner. 5kn at each connection point would still be 6.8g loading for an all up weight of 145kg. Also my final back up is reserve chute that is connected at seperate points.

sketch afk how many breaking at 50% there "Rated" value

Would be very interested in a discussion and further testing on these with the project farm! 😊👍 @projectfarm @TheProjectFarm #ProjectFarm

Hi Ryan , been watching your videos for some months, you have great channel #Salute 🫡 I’m a telecom tech been doing it for some years and I want to know will my fall lanyards fail on me I have some aluminum Petzl Y lanyards They’ve been through some usage How can I send it to you ?

Another great video, Ryan. Your content calls to mind the importance of scientific TRANSPARENCY. Something is lost when we are lulled into trusting the results of opaque testing which is doubly suspect when there may be questionable incentives, or when a company is performing their OWN tests. I think your passion and thoroughness are doing more to promote scientific literacy than many programs designed for that purpose...Keep it up!

I know nothing about paragliding/para-motoring but the takeaway I got from this episode is that these folks should stop trying to reinvent the wheel with these oddly shaped carabiners and just use steel quicklinks.

I bet those AirXtreme biners had a 7000 series aluminum in the locks when they were rated and somewhere along the way someone decided that 6000 series is close enough.

In electronic manufacturing, chain of custody is required for quality if parts aren't bought from an approved distributor or the manufacturer directly. Seems like the same philosophy would apply here. There's a reason manufacturers don't buy microcontrollers from amazon. ;-)

It's amazing how many people over such a wide range use ropes an clips an pins,. Rock climbers, tree fellers, sailers, fisherman, SeaMen, airmen, really bringing us all together Ryan, thank you my man 👍👍👍

Hi Ryan! On ratings- the paragliders themselves are tested to 14kn or more under the EN926 tests! Carabiners that break lower are the weak-point in the whole system. I'd be very happy to do a video (if there's interest) exploring what the attachment points for the wing and reserve parachute look like, and give a closer look at materials (dyneema, kevlar, nylon etc) for the whole system. Often there's protective arrangements to prevent carabiners moving around or angle-loading on the harness side. On the wing side of the connection though, I think more research is needed, as different wings can have lightweight risers that do not occupy the width of the carabiners. I'm exceptionally grateful for all the learning from your channel. For example brummel-splicing dyneema and kevlar has been super-useful for gear repairs in the field, but I've learned so much also about softlinks and quicklinks and a lot of the other bits of hardware we use. Thanks!

Would be cool to use a linescale to measure the actual forces while paramotoring!

"Did they get the right aluminum in the vat..." to then forge the carabiners? That's important, but it's only part of what is required to manufacture reliable life-safety gear. "Real" gear manufacturers pull random samples from their production runs, do testing like this, then use statistical analysis to confirm that each batch is performing up to spec (along with lots of other critical steps and checks!)

I don't climb or use a paramotor but I love this channel. I used to teach high school chemistry and physics. I think I love the testing methodology the most about this channel.

This channel steered me towards soft shackles forever. I had an old chunk of synthetic winch cable and made a few up. They fit so nice in a pocket. Easy to set up even wearing gloves , no potential metal flying around and not had one even come close to fail. Right from the beginning of the video all I could think of is why they wouldn't use them as a back up to the carabineers or instead of for a paramotor.

how do they test to get those numbers? THEY DON'T :D they just copy numbers that the real manufacturers use and mark it as EXPORT ONLY illegal to sell or use in their own country :P

Just the shape of those air extremes make me suspicious. You get the strength out of aluminum carabiners because they are designed to focus the load typically on the non-gated solid shank side. The pin on the gate has leverage so it never sees the full load. Being square I don't see how the air extremes control the load to use the strength of a shank. In fact as noted in the video the location of the load under load is somewhat random. Good designers don't like random. This is actually a fraud. I'm just wondering when that company is going to be sued.

A lot of this slipping is why i fly with D-Shaded Carabiners on my Paragliding Harnesses. 09:07