Why Didn't Sauron Use the Balrog? Middle-Earth Lore 

I always wondered, if the Balrog just wanted to be left alone, why did he confront the party. Then the thought of the bucket landing on his head that Pippen dropped made me chuckle to myself.

Balrog cost about 340 points, Sauron chosed to use the remaining points in two Goblin Squads for his warband.

One does not simply recruit a Balrog 👌

Id imagine after thousands of years of being the ruler of Moria the Balrog would not be interested in being the servant of another who it would see as only a equal at best plus the Balrog would of remembered Sauron's failures as Morgoth's underling so it would be less impressed than most by Sauron.

Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they would work together.

Great analysis. As pointed out, Sauron and the Balrog were both Maia. The Balrog, most likely, would have told Sauron to piss off if Sauron had approached him. "Dude! You got beaten by a girl and a dog!"

Sauron may have assumed or known that the Balrog was in Moria, but the Balrog was near his equal and Sauron would have been consumed by fear that the Balrog would claim the ring and claim over-lordship rather than serve Sauron.

Sauron: "Bow before me and serve my will!" Durin's Bane: "Piss off, you're not my supervisor."

One small mistake, the One Ring was forged before Sauron lost his physical form in Numenor.

I've come across many channels over my years on youtube and none have this caliber of passion. The artwork, attention to detail, and overall coverage of lore is absolutely excellent.

Durin's Bane probably saw himself as superior to Sauron. Every time Sauron took to the field of battle he was destroyed. The Balrog would have had no respect for him.

Weird how 7 year old me somehow got it right that "big demon thing would want to fight other big demon thing". Sometimes the answer really is just that simple.

The balrog would have been perceived as a potential rival until such time the Sauron regained the ring.

Sauron did not recruit the *Balrog* because *M. Bison* had already hired the *Balrog* as his personal bodyguard.

I can totally buy Balrog suffering from PTSD, not wanting to experience another War of Wrath and just sit idle.

Durin’s Bane never had the makings of a varsity Maiar

It's fascinating to think of Balrogs as cunning creatures with agency. I only ever thought of them as demonic monsters. But this makes them even scarier.

@Realms Unravelled A very thoughtful, well presented hypothesis and the more I listened, the more I was impressed with your logic. It may, or may not be correct, but it is perfectly logical and compelling. Bravo!

What conversation between the Balrog and Sauron would boil down to… Sauron: “Hey buddy, remember me?” Balrog: *confused* "Mairon, is that you?” Sauron: “Yep. Long time no see. Ya look great, how are you?” Balrog: “I’m fine old friend. I should be the one asking that. Sauron: *confused* “Come again?” Balrog: “What, are you not use it mirrors anymore? You look terrible, your aura is smaller and you feel weak in power.” genuine concern “What happened to you? Your face, your hair, your hand?” Sauron: “It’s a long story, but to summarize; I made ring to enhance my power and even bound my soul to it but lost it and “died” about 3,000 years ago but I’m better now.” Balrog: “You bound yourself to a ring? Gothmog and Boldog were right, you truly are an idiot.” Sauron: *desperately trying to get to the point out of impatience* “Whatever, I stayed up the old empire in Mordor. You in or out?” Balrog: “Are Lord Melkor, Cpt. Gothmog, Kosmot, or even the pale Balrog around?” Sauron: ”…N…no.” Balrog: “Then get lost, ya ember haired pretty boy. And leave me in peace.” Sauron: *utterly done* “You dare speak to me in such a manner? Dare disobey me!? Listen well, you oversized…” Balrog ascends to true high, form and power: *cuts him off* “No YOU listen to ME, you deformed usurping weasel!” “I DON’T take orders from YOU! I *only* obey Melkor, Gothmog, or my Balrog kin! And they are all gone. Get off my lawn, and don’t come back. Sauron powering up: *stern yet raspy voice* “You DON’T want to do this.” Balrog: “Don’t bother, Mairon. We both know what happened the last time you fought a Balrog in single combat. And you were much stronger back then. Go home and leave me be *In* my home.”

An interesting hypothetical I'm surprised you didn't mention is what might have happened had the Balrog managed to get the ring from Frodo, presumably having killed him and the rest of the Fellowship. If the Balrog refused to follow Sauron willingly, would the ring have been able to influence it enough to join Sauron's cause, or at least manipulate it into accidently serving Sauron's plans? Personally, I don't imagine the Balrog would have become loyal to Sauron immediately, instead the power of the ring would make it so confident that it would try to replace Sauron, heading to Mordor to take over, the ring slowly making the Balrog more like a second Sauron, so by the time it got to Mordor the Balrog had basically become a mirror to Sauron, which Sauron could surplant completely, gaining a powerful physical form that isn't as drained as Sauron had become by the time of the books. That's my head canon at least.

Sauron wouldn't want a Balrog around now that Morgoth isn't there to keep his servants in their places by fear. After losing badly to Huan and Luthien in the First Age, followed by Elendil and Gil-galad in the Second (in the latter case, while wearing the One Ring), Sauron was being extremely cautious about his personal safety. This is why he hides inside of Barad-dur throughout LotR rather than coming forth and leading his armies in person. Durin's Bane could eat the Nazgul for breakfast, and Sauron for lunch. Sauron doesn't want to be put in a position of having to fight such a rival for power.

When I first read the book, I just assumed Sauron didn't KNOW the Balrog was there. It was hiding deep beneath Moria and I always assumed that Sauron knew the Dwarves weren't moving back in and was content to leave it at that; he didn't care WHY so he never looked. But having re-read it, I agree. However, consider this alternative: the Balrog HAD already been recruited by Sauron. As you mention in your video, there was a lot of strategic value for Sauron to have the Balrog hold Moria against the Dwarves. I don't think there was really anything the Balrog could have done that would have been more beneficial for Sauron than what it was already doing. Sauron had the strength of arms to overpower the rest of the world. His stratagems and manipulations were solid. Maybe, if he had captured the Ring and began his conquest of the world, he would have called the Balrog forth and the Balrog would have answered and marched with him. But at this time, the Balrog was, in a way, a rear guard against the reformation of one of Sauron's greatest potential enemies.

Beautiful video. The script, the voice, the artwork. ¡Gracias! Muy buen análisis sobre una pregunta que no me había hecho.

If the Balrog had been truly evil he would have been like Smaug. Killing everybody for the fun of it and for personal satisfaction and gain. The Balrog was mostly pissed of not being left in peace and alone. As easy as he came up from the depths to attack the guys, he could have gone out of Moria and done as he pleased if it really wanted to. Who could have stopped it?.

I think he indirectly did use Durin's Bane, knowing his enemies couldn't recliam the realm of Moria as long as the balrog dwells there, being a giant road block to Saurons enemies, in effect serving Sauron's interests. Plus, why risk the possibility of Durins Bame telling Sauron, F-U I only serve Melkor, and attempting to make Sauron his bitch and attack Mordor. Lol

The Balrog would never have served Sauron anyway and Sauron would not have tolerated a rival.

I've watched a few videos of this theme, I loved the art you've put though. Never seen most of them and as a visual person myself I found them beautiful.

I just love how good Tolkien was at naming things

"Durin's Bane" nickname only means it was dwarves problem at the time, but real Balrog's name is Felagrog. He was 5th most powerful Balrog, out of seven existed.

What many don't know is the fact, that the Balrog was actually in retirement. A homeless veteran suffering PTSD.

Well, because the Balorg was not another dark spirit... but a co-worker from back in the day. I'd think that he would have to do too much power brokering and sharing to get the Balrog on board... or leave them alone for later.

In Moria Gandalf cast magic to seal a door and the Balrog counter magicked him and a harsh mental struggle ensued. Suggesting that the Balrog is at least adapt in a craft commonly associated with intellectual pursuits, placing him behokd a blunt instrument of destruction.

Your wordsmithing with the scripts of these videos, keen perspective on the lore, and exploration of such interesting topics has made this my new favorite Tolkien lore channel! Keep up the good work. Looking forward to some long-form videos!

I've always thought that Sauron and Gothmog were rivals and they hate each other, that's why Sauron despised or never saw Balrogs as reliable.

I'm really enjoying your channel. Thank you for another great video.

I'm new to your channel and love your stuff. Your storytelling and narration, along with the background music are stellar. Keep up the great work!

Yeah I used to always wonder why ol’ Sauron didn’t never use the Balreezy

Well done, this is quickly becoming my favorite channel.

I read the Silmarillion a long time ago, so forgive my possible mistakes: Sauron is kind of like a mini-me for Morgoth. Just as Morgoth was once the strongest of his kind, he spent his power creating/dominating Dragons/Balrogs and other creatures under his command. Same with Sauron, except he pulled a Voldemort and made a single horcrux with most of his power, so he'd be immortal unless the ring was destroyed, conveniently only possible in his backyard. Even without the ring, his ability to gather up unto himself all evil things, using his will to command the Nazgul, his armies, and the eye of Sauron, undoubtedly shows just how powerful he still was even without the ring, but at the same time, doing all that consumed a lot of his attention, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That said, I highly doubt he could dominate or will the Balrog to join him and serve him, especially if the Balrog didn't want to do it in the first place. Also, you have to remember that the Balrog had enemies all around, and could hardly leave Moria unnoticed, or without an escort of a formidable army. On one side of the mountains, he would inevitably have to pass by Isengard and Rohan or Gondor, while on the other side there is Lothlorien right on his borders. People tend to overestimate the Balrog, and the fact is that it can be killed, just like how Smaug was killed by a regular old human. The Balrog could live in Moria undisturbed for a very long time, until someone more powerful than him came and tried to kill him. Also, and this is where my memory becomes fuzzy, but as a corrupted Maia, wouldn't the death of the Balrog send his spirit or whatever back to the Gods, just like what happened to Gandalf after he defeated said Balrog? There he would be judged as guilty as his evil masters and probably locked away, not given a new body or a new chance at life. So the Balrog had every reason to just hang out in Moria, avoid getting killed, and basically just do whatever he pleased. Lastly, it's highly likely Sauron was worried about treachery, from either the Balrog or (before he was killed) Smaug. Both were creatures of immense power and intelligence (for the time period), and probably strong enough to challenge his will, unless he first obtained the One Ring. Just my thoughts, correct me if I'm wrong :)

Several Tolkien channels have popped up over the years. But this one stands above most. Very well done video. Great job! Thank you.

I feel like Sauron's alliance with Saruman (a fellow Maia) runs counter to your evidence of Sauron's need for absolute allegiance. There would be a great risk of competition from Saruman similar to that of a allegiance with the Balrog

I loved every bit of this presentation. The artwork, the narration, the flow, all of it.

I read the Simarillion. I always considered Balrogs as Morgoths exclusive henchmen. I assume they would not yeild to Sauron, but rather see him as just a lowly lutenaint. Sauron prefers unquestioning slaves umreliable and dubious allies. He sees them as untrustworthy, as Saruman was as much a possible opponent in a power struggle as he was an ally against the free people or middle earth. Sauron does not share power.

I've always told others that Sauron could not control the balrogs or the dragons because they, being Maiar spirits, are coeval with Sauron. Smaug fancied himself a king in his own right.

I just want to make a point here because this is the 3rd video on this topic I've watched in recent weeks, I believe. The Ainur communicated between themselves telepathically with as far as we can discern, no range limitations. How do we know Sauron and Durin's Bain _didn't_ converse? It may be that they couldn't come to terms, it maybe that the Balrog was being held in reserve for the right moment, it might be the the Balrog told Sauron to screw off or vice versa. Why is the assumption always that they didn't talk?

But... Sauron could and likely would have used Smaug, as per Gandalf (and I doubt that Gandalf would concern himself with ridiculous "what if" scenarios)...what Sauron could have used as an enticement, I cannot tell, since the dragon already had a river, a mountain of gold, silver and the last mithril available. The Dragons, like the Balrogs, served Morgoth and Morgoth alone. Sauron would need to feed Smaug with the rest of the Dwarven species to get the old worm to flap off the set Mirkwood ablaze, for instance. Hard, but not impossible. Still, a good video, and look luck with this channel!

In my opinion, primary reason would be sauron, istari and the balrogs all were mair, hence of equal rank in someway or another. Balrog would not submit to sauron. As the Nazguls submitted to Sauron's will. If nothing sauron as insecure is he is. He would believe the balrog will try to take the ring for himself, as he believed Aragorn have did.

Beautifully written. Subbed.

Your channel is amazing. One of the most promising and exciting channels dedicated to Tolkien's mythology. Beautiful weaving of pictures, and passages from Tolkien's world. There are lots of outstanding channels exploring Tolkien's world. But your channel, with only 14 uploads, truly stands out. I hope you keep uploading, because to put it simply, your uploads are beautiful to watch and listened too.

I always felt that Sauron didn't need to move the balrog to achieve his ends, it had already conquered Khazad Dum- a feat Sauron had attempted and not succeeded... and was able to claim the riches of Moria for his own while Durins bane dwelt there, as a bonus, the long beards, his greatest foe among the dwarves, could not reclaim their home while he was there. Sauron already had loyal and powerful servants in the Nazgul to project his power, and the balrog might prove to be treacherous or hard to command. Better yet, he chose to keep it comfortable there because of the access it provided him to mithril, and the strategic position it locked down, after all, it gave him control of much of the misty mountains, locking down the passes of the mountains from rivendell, and while he resided in Dol Goldur, it kept his enemies from coming to his door so easily... it also served as a nearby distraction as well.

I believe the idea and influence on lore of the difference between "demons and devils" in things such as dnd and such comes straight out of this perspective. Good video, good explanation. 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

Probably because it despised sauron for failing morgoth several times. Not to mention it likely didnt believe in saurons strength and didnt want to be a puppet or enter anoher pointless war

You posses the way of the English word, well spoken. And a keen you to art - May your singing be heard where it is needed.

Am I the only one that likes the Balrog and his will to stay alone,hidden from the world like a powerful relic of an incredibly ancient past?

Logistics is a very important component of warfare whether on ancient or modern battlefields. A Balrog is a very expensive defensive sentry weapon or tank that needs to be placed on a particular strategic point on the battlefield to clear advancing enemies. Transporting it to an open battlefield is a risk and logistical nightmare even for Sauron. It is difficult to control, can not be moved in secrecy, and would require a lot of management for it to sync with his other armies' tactics. It will also be an easy target for projectile weapons. The same goes with Smaug and Shelob.

I find the arguments very doubtful. The Balrog wasn't a creature of fear but a tyrant in it's own domain.

Sauron is a Miar. The Balrog is also a Miar. Sauron didn't have his ring, and didn't want to compete for power with another powerful Miar who was more than content to hide in the bowels of the earth.

Well done, my friend. Love your videos and hope they never stop.

I asked this question on a similar LOTR channel about 3-4 years ago and posed a lot of questions mentioned in this video... So glad someone finally covered it. Including my questions of Sauron bending the Balrog to his will. Which was something I'd always wondered

Cause he will never have that Valar drip, much less Melkor's.

I always assumed he just couldn’t control it. Sauron is a very powerful Maiar, but Durin’s Bane is a corrupted Maiar itself, and a very powerful one.

Ungoliant wasn't treacherous, rather Melkor who had renaged on his bargain with her.

“Hey there fellow Maiar! Boy it sure hasn’t been the same since Morgoth is gone, isn’t it?”

For transparency to your audience, could you please include the software used to generate the voice for your videos? It sounds like ElevenLabs? Also, could you provide the software that assisted in generating the images? Thank you!

because the Balrog doesn't have to answer to him

My view has always been while Sauron is definitely stronger than the other great evils we encounter, I always thought they were powerful enough that trying to dominate them would have been to much effort. The Balrog specifically while weaker I doubt could be forced, Smaug (if he survived) and Shelob could be but I think it would have been easier to either leave them be (shelob guarding) or bribed in Smaug's case to cause havoc.

Really enjoyed that, never thought of The Balrog as a victim before. I guess no one escapes their fate. Thank you and keep them coming.

complexities of choice and destiny .

I noticed during Fellowship when Frodo and Aragorn are trapped on the collapsing bridge it's almost as if the Ring WANTS to get out of Moria

Thanks! I love listening to stories

Them Balrogs were on a whole different level!

where does all this amazing art come from?

I always assumed that Sauron just didn’t know the Balrog was there. It’s almost like a sock you left forgotten under a couch. He probably caught a look of Gandalf fighting it atop the peak and went, “Oh! There was one of those just lying around. Damn.”

Why didnt sauron simply use the balrog to fly the ring to mordor?

Bro you find the most badass artist rendition of these characters, i love it .

In D&D- the Balrog would be Chaotic Evil- untameable and wild, untrustworthy. Sauron would be Lawful Evil- Tyrannical, yet organized, and wary. In Comics, Sauron is Dr. Doom, Balrog would be Joker.

The artwork throughout this video is incredible!!

🔔 RU@4:11: Sauron's will was NOT "indomitable" it was near-indomitable. Aragorn beat him in a contest of wills via Saruman's former Palantir, remember.

“I do not take orders from Mordor rats!” - Durin’s Bane, probably

He DID use the Balrog, tacitly. He forced them to the path under the mountain where he KNEW that thing lived!

Poor Balrog, he just wanted to live a quiet life after all.

Without listening this tape, one must consider that Sauron and Balrogs are equally Maiar so Balrogs would show no dedication to serve under Sauron, although they may join forces. Only Melkor has the authority over Balrogs.

Why did Mairon not just stop? All that scheming and all that power spent to the point where all that was left of him was a literal shadow. What drove Sauron to seek dominion over it all with such a burning fever that he would see himself destroyed before surrender?

Excellent video!

I love this kind of stuff, so chill and interesting and easy to fall asleep to as well

So in this case, the enemy of my enemy is my… potential enemy?

Sauron would fear that the Balrog could challenge him.

Because Tolkien was still developing his narrative. Parts of Moria wear written years before the rest of the FotR.

The triumvirate of evil,Sauron,Durin's Bane,Smaug. A mighty alliance

Seeing how horrible communication seems to be in Middle Earth, Sauron probably never knew about the Balrog. Hell, he probably never even knew about Smaug

Had the balrog joined the war the result would have been catastrophic.

The Balrog represents sin and evil. The Dwarves turned it on middle earth with their greed. Sauron didnt have to. This theme is the whole point of the trilogy

an employee can't boss around another fellow employee of Morgoth

Sauron IS originally described as a balrog of Melkor/Morgoth in The Silmirillion.

Great video. Definitely some perspectives I had not considered before.

Very well narrated, and also good artwork to accompany the tale.

So basically the Balrog is an introvert while Sauron is an extrovert.

He was a servant of Morgoth, not Sauron. That's where his allegiance lies

Simple answer is : The Balrog said „U not my dad“

Balrog asked for 2 weeks paid vacation per waking up. Bad precident and deal breaker for Sauron.